I read a headline yesterday about driver's starting to cut back on motoring due to fuel prices, and also starting to run with emptier tanks.
Not sure how much truth there is in the stories, but I wondered whether you guys had changed your motoring habits in response to the increases and, if not, how high they would have to rise before you would do so.
In the extreme, how high would they have to rise before you started to look at other transport options, or ditched the car completely?
I guess for many people, a car is so vital for some journeys that you could never give it up completely.
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The Country's shafted. Alternative transport here in North Devon!
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So many variables involved, mainly down to disposable income. But employment status, retired etc, car commuter or not. When we were snowed in for a week we walked to the supermarket, 30 mins each way normally, 45 in heavy snow, with backpacks for shopping bags to keep topped up with consumables. Things would be desperate if we could not afford to drive the 5 minutes it takes in the car. In fact we did a weeks food shop over several journeys on foot.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 16 Feb 11 at 20:20
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I think at £2 a litre it would require major changes to my way of doing things.
At that price id be better off staying at home. Infact what we would do would be move to Kettering town centre where the wife works and id prob not have a car at all.
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I think for business then £3 a litre will really make me think about the way I do business. I would have to do either get more people to drop machines off or do more remote work.
For personal trips then £2 a litre would be the maximum limit.
For driving round the block pointlessly to kill time, I think £1 a litre was the limit :p.
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Difficult to tell where the impact level would be. I guess it has already impacted us in that we have two fairly economical cars, but we now make less pointless journeys, and will try to tie trips in together such as going to a shopping center but meeting friends there rather than then driving on to their house afterwards.
MrsB is on maternity leave at the moment and the kids walk to / from school so her mileage has dropped quite a bit - probably less than 100 miles a week, whereas when shes at work can be anything up to 4 or 500 a week. Guess the net result is that we havent really noticed the price creep up so much, although it did smart a bit putting £83 of diesel in the C5 last week
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Petrol seems to have gone down here by a massive 1p, but as Tesco says - every little helps.
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I think people will reduce their car use to the absolute minimum only when they have to seriously cut back on other expenditure in order to afford fuel. That's the position I'm in, and I only use my car now to get to and from work, to pick my son up at weekends and to visit family 100 miles away half a dozen times a year. We walk / cycle everywhere within our home town, and have done so for the last two years.
Bought £10 of petrol at 125.9p a litre last night, I hope it's still the same tomorrow because I'm doing all three of those journeys this weekend. Slowly.
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Wed 16 Feb 11 at 21:02
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56.6mph - is that still considered the best speed?
I have noticed more and more lately my dad has been walking a lot more, he no longer uses his car to go to the supermarket etc. Although I don't think it is the fuel costs, they just don't have any money.
I bought my dad a bus pass :).
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The traffic on my commute into London on the A2 certainly seems lighter of late and people do seem to be driving at lower speeds than used to be.
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>> The traffic on my commute into London on the A2 certainly seems lighter of late
>> and people do seem to be driving at lower speeds than used to be.
>>
I've noticed the same on the A3.
My favourite is to tuck up behind a big HGV on the motorway and slip-stream. Then watch your 'instantaneous mpg' on the cars computer shoot up!
Gets a bit boring looking at the back end of an HGV all day at 56mph, though!
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I am saving fuel, I have cut my motorway speed down
To 70mph
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Doesn't traffic flow better on motorways when people are doing lower speeds anyway?
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Not quite, it flows better when everyone does a constant speed - whatever that may be
and you fit more on per mile of motorway when its slower.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 16 Feb 11 at 21:17
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That makes sense because stopping distances would be lower.
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The optimum road speed for greatest throughput in vehicles per hour is 12mph IIRC.
The 56mph speed comes about because of something to do with the fluid dynamics of air itself, above this speed the energy required to shift air out of the way increases exponentially because of shear forces, or molecular structure or something.
I've lowered my motorway speed to a speedo-indicated 65-70mph (GPS 60-64mph), and I've noticed far less people overtaking me at this speed than used to be the case. In fact I've lowered my average cruising speed by 10mph once every year for the last three years ;) and have really noticed the difference in fuel consumption.
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Wed 16 Feb 11 at 23:10
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>> And less fines too :D.
Ah, if only... Got nicked in '08 for using my phone on the M6.
I haven't actually been done for speeding on a motorway since 1992. I did it properly, mind.
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A price of £1.70 per litre would mean I would have to make significant changes to my working life at least.
We're very lucky in that both if us get Stagecoach staff bus passes that we can use on most companies' buses so most of our leisure travel (except the 'big shop') is done on the bus. But I'm already spending £50 a week on petrol to get me to work, which is one fifth of my take-home pay. Trouble is, there are no bus driving jobs in Southport at the moment, which means I'm going to have to either look at going back to coach driving (which I'm loath to do as I don't want to be away from home) or look at re-training (which I can't afford to do).
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Being retired, it's not too much an issue for me. SWM uses more fuel as she goes over to Stockport several times a week to babysit during the day. Daughter and SiL have to work. Both are working at the same place tomorrow so that means £280 for the day....not to be turned down !
They're just out of 4 or 5 yrs of skimping.
Both of us have bus passes and can use the train/tram/bus anywhere in Gtr Manchester.
Having a new tram branch with a station 150 yds away will be great. Opening in early June.
Part time job pays for the fuel for both cars so not too critical atm. All out shops/banks/restaurants are in easy walking distance
There's always the bike...55 mpg......or the pushbike !
Ted
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Ted has the June date being confirmed or is that just an educated guess?
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>> Ted has the June date being confirmed or is that just an educated guess?
>>
Was talking to one of the engineers last weekend on the bridge here. That's what he said.
He also said that the concrete lift-shafts and stairs would be left as they are and not landscaped by cladding in red brick....shame, naked concrete looks scruffy in no time.
It's a magnet for graffiti as well.
Ted
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. Trouble is,
>> there are no bus driving jobs in Southport at the moment, which means I'm going
>> to have to either look at going back to coach driving (which I'm loath to
>> do as I don't want to be away from home) or look at re-training (which
>> I can't afford to do).
Rob, A little 50cc scooter for work springs to mind here ! Take the car on bad days.
120 mpg !
Ted
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>> Rob, A little 50cc scooter for work springs to mind here ! Take the car
>> on bad days.
>> 120 mpg !
120 mpg sounds terribly appealing Ted. However, riding a 50cc scooter 20 miles at 0430 appeals in the same way that rubbing my gentleman's arrangements with coarse sandpaper doesn't :-)
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>> 56.6mph - is that still considered the best speed?
>>
Only in a 30 limit! ;-)
Seriously Rattle, if you must drive at that speed on a motorway, do keep an eye out for HGV's, because that's the same speed as their limiters are normally set to.
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>> 56.6mph
>> if you must drive at that speed on a motorway, do keep an eye out for HGV's, because that's the same speed
>> as their limiters are normally set to.
Most of our 7.5 tonners at work are too old to be limited (W, X, Y reg) so will easily do 75mph, but company policy is to keep them down to 60mph to save fuel. It's good because I have that extra little bit of leeway to go with the ebb and flow of HGV traffic but I don't get in anyone's way.
I've taken to driving the car at the same speed and in the same fashion when on long motorway journeys, which I believe takes a bit more observation and forward planning than that shown by the average car driver. Key to staying safe is knowing the limited speeds of HGVs (52-56mph) and coaches (60-65mph) and anticipating closing speeds and likely speed changes on hills.
It gets easier the more you do it Rattle, just relax, go with the flow but keep paying attention.
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>> Seriously Rattle, if you must drive at that speed on a motorway, do keep an
>> eye out for HGV's, because that's the same speed as their limiters are normally set
>> to.
>>
He won't have to, because, if he stick to the HGV limit, he will be travelling between the same two HGVs all through his journey.
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Does wonders for his mpg if he keeps close enough to the one in front... His only issue is if the front one stops suddenly and the one behind doesn't notice... flatpack Panda!
Or is he a middle lane hogger? ;-)
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>> Or is he a middle lane hogger? ;-)
>>
Has he ever driven on a Motorway?
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Yeah, all this talk about motorways is pointless.
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I also think people forget what a massive amount depreciation costs them. They'll fuss over another 5 p a litre but will buy a new car and lose £2k a year! Madness.
Being self employed now I can claim mileage at 40.5p a mile. I worked out petrol would have to be £8 a gallon to make it not pay. Car only does 20 mpg anyway. Converting to another type of fuel or using a petrol/something else mix would be the next step in reducing costs.
There's not a price in the world that would get me to ditch the car for some stinking bus. I think most people realise time is far more valuable and adding to their already long working week with using public transport and spending even less time with their family is not an option. This is what this dumb politicians forget. If you mess people about, cause congestion and make motoring too expensive then you are robbing people of their family time. They're always coming out with this 'think of the children' carp but when it comes down to doing what needs to be done ie less congestion and shorter working hours which would actually improve the life of most children they're not interested. If you shortened working hours you'd also be able to have more people in work!
Drive offs are going to increase to the point where I think pay at pump will become compulsory or pay in advance will be implemented.
Opec are nothing but a money grubbing cartel and they need sorting out too.
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The first thing I do when the fuel price rises is look at the car I drive and a more economical version, that can relate to the size/fuel of the engine and the size/type of the car... From what I see on the roads most people are still not looking at that side of car ownership seriously, obviously fuel prices haven't gone up enough yet...
When fuel really goes up in price (I suppose if I was forced into a figure it would probably be about the £2/l mark), I reckon we'll see a big drop in 4x4 and large MPV sales when people realise that they can actually get by with something smaller...
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>> They'll fuss over another 5 p a litre but will buy a new car and lose £2k a year! Madness.
People tend to underestimate effect of lump sum payment vs ongoing but small amount of purchase. This is a psychological thing. That's why advertisers say "get this car for £249/month" rather than saying yours for £10,000 including 29.4% APR over 3 years.
Personally I think £2/L will cause me to seriously think about cutting down non essential travel (social, leisure).
Last edited by: movilogo on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 09:49
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I'm not too worried about Opec, it's our greedy government that's the problem.
For petrol at £1.279 per litre:
£0.5895 in fuel duty
£0.05 in retailer profit (at point of sale, not oil company)
£0.4263 in actual fuel cost to oil company, refiner and distributors
£0.2132 in VAT
Total tax per litre: £0.8027, which is more than we used to pay in total for a litre until quite recently.
To reach £2.00 a litre at current fuel duty and VAT rates, the fuel component would have to reach £1.0272, or 2.4 times more than today (at which point we'd pay £0.9228 in taxes thanks to VAT being % based). That implies a barrel price for crude oil of around $200-$220 compared to around $80 - $100 at the minute.
$200 a barrel is not impossible, but what is certain is that if fuel duty was reduced to more reasonable levels, we'd all be suffering a lot less regardless of the price of crude. Also, remember this, as the price of crude goes up, the governments VAT take also goes up. This doesn't seem fair. IMO, VAT should be taken off fuel, and if necessary, a little more on fuel duty to compensate, and then fuel duty should be index linked rather than pushed up randomly to fill budget holes.
Last edited by: oilburner on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 09:52
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...what is certain is that if fuel duty was reduced to more reasonable levels, we'd all be suffering a lot less...
Sorry, OB, but as AC once told me about something else, that's cobblers. What would the government do to replace the lost tax revenue - say, "Sorry chaps, we really didn't need it after all"? It would simply come from higher income tax or VAT, so the 'suffering' would be simply moved, not eliminated.
Bleating about fuel tax is like bleating about the rain: it's a fact of life in this country and, whatever you might hear from some quarters, it doesn't all go to 'benefit scroungers'. This government has done quite enough cutting to stimulate growth, however that is supposed to work. Let's not offer it an excuse for more.
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WdB, I appreciate they have to raise the money from somewhere, that's why I suggest we increase fuel duty to compensate for the drop in VAT and then index link it.
That way the relative amount goes up at a reasonable rate. At the minute, they keep increasing fuel duty so often, that when added to increasing oil prices, the amount taken in VAT is increasing rapidly too.
They don't need to keep taking more, just staying still with inflation would be progress! :)
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I think some of us have already been here.........I can remember during the oil crisis (late 70s? ration books?) that most of my friends were saying "ooh, I'm giving up my car when petrol hits 50p a gallon". The fact is that yes, we'll cut down on non-essential journeys for a while, moan a lot, then we'll forget all about it and carry on as before. Simples.
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My driving habits have changed over the last few months.
Previously, I would think nothing of making several trips, for example going to the tip on a Saturday, then Asda (which is next door to the tip) on a Sunday as I didn't think of it on the Saturday. Now, I do both in one go.
One great fuel saving device I have is....... my garage. I cleared it out last year so I can actually now fit the car in. Once I have put my car away I generally can't be faffed with pulling it out again if I need to go out again. Instant fuel saving!
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See while you're all dawdling about saving the planet or your wallets or whatever, any chance of moving back to the driving lane once youve finished overtaking another Eco warrior.
Some folks still like to get a shift on.
:-)
The M8 last night was insane, the overtaking lanes were chocka at about 50ish. I drove, nigh on 12 miles without having to leave the inside lane. Comfortably above the posted limit, with nobody in front of me.
That's completely back to front road usage. Didn't half feel good though.
I want a pair of blue lights for the next car.
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I have driven on motorways but only the M60 and only for a few miles. I am hoping to drive up to North Wales this year possibly by myself (my mates Mrs is not keen on me tagging along, so I will stuff them!) will probably go camping for a few days and then stay in a B&B the night before I drive back.
When I do go to Wales though it will be a nice weather day, so the average speed of the M56 will be 11mph anyway! as all the mancs all head to North Wales on the same day.
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Living in the countryside, having a car is almost as essential as having electricity these days. Yes, you can manage without it, but life would be so much harder. So all you can do when fuel prices go up is economise as best you can.
But, really, motoring is almost as cheap as it has ever been in real terms.
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The most important thing it seems I can do for the Golf's economy is to give it a brief but thorough thrashing every few days.
1500-4500 RPM, accelerator to the floor, repeated two or three times.
After this, the indicated journey average mpg on the (gentle, almost mimsing) commute the following day will sit somewhere around 54mpg.
This stays for a few days, then it drops back under 50mpg. Until it's next given a clear out when it's back up to 54 ish again.
I have done this enough times now to prove that it makes a real difference.
Of course, whether the fuel guzzled in the clearout / Italian tune-up is more than offset by the higher journey averages, I frankly can't be bothered to calculate. But the difference it makes to the running and economy of the car tells me it's doing some good.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 16:27
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I have cut out extra unwarranted journeys like nipping out in the car to the supermarket when we need milk or bread. Better planningmeans I can get it when I am passing the supermarket anyway.
I am trying to drive as economically as possible and that has pushed my mpg up by about 3mpg. I work in Glasgow and notice the mpg go down dramatically when stuck in traffic! So trying my best to avoid rush hour commutes.....
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I have the after noon free tomorrow so I will get the bus to the suppliers instead, I have the bus pass here as I bought one for my dad so I may as well use that.
It will take me an hour longer in total but will cost me exactly £0 to get there.
I have been spending £60+ a month on fuel lately and I am sure I can easily knock £10 of that. I have become a bit lazy lately, sometimes I will drive to the nearest supermarket which is 0.6 miles away! Ok I will have to carry heavy bags but it is good exercise.
I have also been doing things like letting the car slow down towards red lights rather wasting all the energy in breaking.
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How much of a rise in fuel prices can you bear? - MD
