Ok, Ive heard back today that the new gearbox bearings didnt make any difference and the workshop manager, when asked what sort of timescale this is on, basically said its open ended.
Im a little put out now. I was hoping for a resolution by this point, but it seems that the fault is one of those rare ones which is extremely hard to diagnose. I think they thought they were onto something with the bearings and having done that work, they are all looking at eachother wondering where to go next.
Im in no doubt that there is a fault, ive driven two other similar aged Wagon Rs and the noise simply isnt there on them. Also, I feel the dealer would in no way have gone to the lengths they have if they geninely didnt think there was something wrong, which to my mind is an admission on their part.
With that in mind, I wondered whether it is the right time, since they have had the car a week now with no resolution in sight, to contact the salesman and offer up the suggestion of some sort of exchange for another car of similar value?
I have his email address at the dealership and I wondered if it would be a good idea to float the idea, see what the response is?
I also wondered what the legal position is - ie what sort of response is required in legal terms by them in this case? Ive actually now had the loan car longer than the car I bought.
Im not angry about the situation, Im sure they are trying their best to sort things, but I wonder if I should try and alter the game at this stage, see if its more cost effective for them to give me something else instead and how I should go about getting that without getting their backs up - it is afterall just a cheap used car in the grand scheme of things.
|
|
Yes. It's a lemon. Get them to supply you with something proper, or give you your money back.
|
|
Ok, how should I approach them? Via email or in person? I could pop over now, but Im wondering what the legal requirements are on them with these things because I dont know what they can and cant refuse.
|
|
I'd pay a visit in person. With my nicest smile and most friendly bearing, of course. Can't beat looking 'em in the eye!
|
Never mind the legals. Go and state what it is that you want them to do, i.e. refund or replace.
If they don't, then seek advice on the legals. Just pop round informally and have a chat over a cuppa.
|
Stu, there's no need to be nasty about it (and not implying that you would be) but rats to them, what about you? Your money wasn't faulty. You want your money back or an acceptable TO YOU alternative.
John
|
Rightly or wrongly, the garage will almost certainly be reluctant to refund your money.
On t'other hand, they might be quite pleased if you take an alternative car, because they can then decide what to do with the broken one in their own time.
No need to worry about legal obligations just yet, go for informal resolution.
You cannot prejudice your position by asking.
Edit: Snap with Alanovic, above. That's two things we've agreed on in two days - it won't last. :)
Last edited by: Iffy on Wed 16 Feb 11 at 15:01
|
Eek. ;-)
This is the answer to your problems, stu:
tinyurl.com/4q72nsu
|
I'd mention being grateful for all the assistance so far. You appreciate how much they've helped, the loan car has been a great help. You appreciate how hard they're clearly trying. You feel like they've been open with the issues and it reflects what you experienced with them last time too.
It's just that now, well if the wagon r could be fixed you would snap it up in an instant. It just looks like it might be a more difficult problem to solve and rather than keep putting everyone out chasing, could you perhaps change to something else?
You run a business, and while the loan cars great, you're worried about marking it or damaging it in some way. It's not always the most gentle business lifting pressure washers in and out the back. You feel it's probably time to make a move.
I wouldn't mention money back at all, even if you've decided you want your money back, i'd go with the approach of asking for a look at what else is there - should keep salesman happy, keeps relationship on side, and who knows you might find something.
If / when you run out of cars on the forecourt, i'd thank them for all their efforts and ask for the refund (in full).
Basically i wouldn't jump straight in with i want my money back, they're only human. Might provoke them into taking a stand.
The other thing i'd do is send it via email rather than call, saving the email. Write it today, send it tomorrow after a sleep on what you've written.
|
The other thing i'd do is send it via email rather than call...
Skoda,
I was with you all the way - until the last paragraph.
This is a secondhand car we are talking about, not the monarchical succession.
There's an old saying that secondhand cars are bought and sold in the gutter, meaning stood next to the car in the open air, talking face-to-face to the seller.
|
You're right iffy, i'm being unfair towards the dealer, but it's a calculated choice.
So i'm sorry for the Dealer that i'm taking the CYA approach here, i'm sure he's honourable and will treat stu fairly, it's just i'm predisposed not to trust him, it's not him, it's me.
If i was the dealer, and i was that way inclined, i'm fairly confident i could send Stu home with his tail between his legs telling him he gets to keep both parts. I'd even treat my family to a holiday with his £3k, and there is no way Stu would be seeing a penny of it. If i were that way inclined.
Costs nothing to keep your eyes open, and email's an acceptible medium these days i'd be genuinely surprised if the dealer took offence to my approach. Especially with the open, friendly, hope it's not too much trouble, general approach.
|
|
Is this the vehicle with the rusty sills?
|
Now is the time to punt it back. They have had sufficient goes to fix it (both legally and morally), and they admit it has a fault or they wouldn't have tried to fix it.
You are on good terms with the garage, no need for this to be unpleasant. As the others have said its easier and cheaper for the Garage to source you an alternative car (not another Wagon R please) so this is the way to approach this.
Mind you I don't rate them technically. It sounds more like a diff or drive shaft type fault to me. Is this the same ones who said the other one had a dropped valve?
|
The problem is legaly I think the garage has done everything they can, I don't think you will get a refund but certainly I think they should offer you something else.
And also Zero is right have they checked all the obvious things like CV joints?
If it was me I would resign myself to wanting a new car but also realise that I was sort of trapped and would have to buy it from the same dealer.
|
This isnt the old '98 Wagon R, this is the '05 one I bought from the dealer, two different cars.
My feeling about the issue is that were it as simple as driveshafts, theres no way on earth they would have dropped the gearbox, they would have looked at things in order of cheapness and gearbox work is way up there.
It was suggested elsewhere that it may be there is structural damage due to hitting a hellish pothole/kerb that isnt very easy to spot visually but which can cause these oscillating vibrations if things arent quite straight. Given it was owned by a little old lady, this has some value, esp given the area she lived which has terrible roads after the snow. Im not saying it is, its just a theory but very possible given where we are now.
In terms of the possible replacement car, Im not sure really what to ask for as they dont have a huge stock and nothing on their forecourt right now for less than £5k.
|
I know I can't follow your thought processes Stu without an element of amazement but genuinely sorry this issue is ongoing. I would expect to take the loan car back into the dealership together with any paperwork you have for the Wagon and get a full refund cheque there and then... perhaps after seeing the dealer principal.
Oddly enough through the family I was offered a 2009 or 2010 Wagon R for a level £5k last week. About 14k recorded and from a local lady who sadly has to give up driving.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 16 Feb 11 at 18:11
|
>> I was offered a 2009 or 2010 Wagon R<<
They stopped making them in 2007...
|
|
Sorry... it was the Vauxhall thingy... thought they were the same car.
|
|
Just checked... a 2008 on type Agila... so a Suzuki Swift??
|
Has everyone checked that there's no part of the exhaust routed too close to the body, so that it touches at certain road speeds perhaps as a result of air pressure under the car?
Noises, especially noises of this sort, can be caused by a variety of unexpected things. Another cause of sinister bangs and thumps in a car can be missing or misplaced door and hatch rubbers. Can sound just like suspension damage while being completely harmless.
|
Well the sound is only under load. It sounds like a tyre rubbing on bodywork is the best way to describe it, sort of like a wheel bearing in some ways.
It gets faster with speed too, so I can see why they went to the gearbox, it was my first thought after all the usual stuff like driveshafts and wheel bearings.
Im sure the noise is coming from the running gear somewhere, but where and why nobody seems to know as its not a known issue with the cars, which more and more makes me think its just this one and something happened to cause it, unique to the car.
Last edited by: Wilberstuforce31 on Wed 16 Feb 11 at 18:18
|
>> In terms of the possible replacement car, Im not sure really what to ask for
>> as they dont have a huge stock and nothing on their forecourt right now for
>> less than £5k.
True but don't forget they can source another car much easier than you. Tell them to find another one at the same price and it will appear.
|
Tbh, Im not sure I could face another Wagon R, thats just tempting fate isnt it?
I would be happy with an Ignis though which was my second choice an tehre are plenty they could buy in and still preserve some profit which I know will influence what they choose to do.
Are they actually obliged in law to do anything other than fix the car I wonder?
|
In law they are obliged to fix it or give you your money back.
The last one will cost them, finding you another car wont. They will make money on it, and they will put the Wagon r back on the forecourt.
|
>>
>> Are they actually obliged in law to do anything other than fix the car I
>> wonder?
>>
i'm sure there are people that know better than me here, but I think they're allowed three goes to fix a problem, then they must replace the vehicle. or as a last resort refund.
|
I know it might sound like a mad question, but ive read nothing but good things about the post-05 Clio and I rather like the look of them - seems 05 models come in around £3k so in the relms of possibility.
Moving away from Suzuki, these appeal, should they?
|
Stu - for the love of all that's holy will you please go and get yourself a Focus or Mondeo estate....or even, ( he mutters ) a Mitsubishi blinking Lancer...We can't stand it any longer !
:-)
|
|
Too big chap, small cars only and I hate Fiestas with passion.
|
|
Perhaps but I dont really want yet another endless list of problems.
|
Nicole had an 07 Clio with the 1.5dci engine.
Good ride and handling, lots of toys, ludicrously cheap to run, nothing went wrong in three years, however the drivers seat (in lower spec ) was crippling.
But dont forget you are buying the first off the line new models at that price point, - I refuse to have cars that people are learning to make.
|
stu
does your litany of bad cars stem from reading way too much about standard faults on cars. you then seem to buy something withthe false confidence that as there are no known faults on the model you choose that you believe all is ok but you have proven time and time again to be wrong. try another way and buy it cos it does what you need and you can afford to run it.
cant you just risk getting a suitable car and not look at guides that tell you of known problems.
ive had dozens of cars that you would dismiss as inherently unreliable and ive never had a breakdown in the last 1/2 million miles.
just an observation and in no way a dig at you.
|
Too big??? Too big for what??? Mondeo estates are perfect in every way. Men's cars too....
:-)
|
Yeah, Mondeo man was aptly named.
What part of Essex are you from Humph?
|
|
Just the last three letters I'm told...
|
|
Perhaps mens cars, but I havent the money to run one. I want cheap tax, an aversion to burning fossil fuels and I dont want my insurance company to ask for more.
|
|
Don't get a Clio... you hate French cars and know they are unreliable.
|
>> Perhaps mens cars, but I havent the money to run one.
you could of ran a mondeo estate for years with the money youve lost through inapproprite decisions
|
|
I could have bought a Lada and spent the rest on rather questionable women too. Not sure hindsight really matters though.
|
|
Buy Rattle's Panda. Just get something off for the terminal clutch pedal :-)
|
|
Wheesht Skoda ! I've just sprayed tea down my nose....
|
It won't be for sale for a long time :). The car works, it has been reliable apart from the very minor clutch pedal issue which is now fixed. I am keeping it, 9 months of trouble free motoring and lets be honest if the car was not under warranty I would have got the WD40 out.
I don't think there is anything defined by law other than the garage must take reasonable steps to fix it and if that fails then they have to offer a reund/replacement vehicle.
They have checked the weights on the wheels I assume.
|
Stu dear boy
This new motor has obvoiusly put doubts into your mind and the minds of those that post here.
Now is the time to reject it and seek a compromise or to live with the perceived fault.
The choice is yours
However I for one do not wish to post to a "my gearbox is broken" thread in 6 months time
As always
Mark
|
>>>However I for one do not wish to post to a "my gearbox is broken" thread in 6 months time
If Stu is at all inclined to keep the car a very important issue is what the warranty length/terms are.
For example the Citroen used car warranty on our 2006 C3 last year was 12mths no quibble with everything covered just as if a new car... inc breakdown/recovery cover.
Wonder what Suzuki do?
|
Just the minimum 3 month jobbie, hence I moved swiftly to get it back in when I knew something wasnt right. Its not an approved used car or anything, Im not sure if Suzuki have such a scheme.
Im going in tomorrow morning, taking the wife so she can do to unhappy wife act.
|
She will be an unhappy wife full stop if you're not careful. She has the patience of a saint. :)
I was once actually banned from talking about cars in the pub during my Corsa saga. It was very week a new fault was found.
|
My misses is a car girl, she was there when I bought the car, she thought it seemed fine too and doesnt think it was anyones fault, just one of those things.
She has a way of looking very annoyed but manages charm at the same time, hence she is a great asset at times like these.
She said her line will be ' my husband is very patient and he needs telling when we need to move things on and reach a conclusion, which is why Im here '.
|
>> This isnt the old '98 Wagon R, this is the '05 one I bought from
>> the dealer, two different cars.
Franchised dealer?
|
|
Get your money back Stu......
|
|
Am I entitled to it at this stage? Obviously thats the reaction most people would have, but its not always that simple walking in and getting your money back if they wont play ball.
|
|
There's no dispute about your legal rights here Stu, you are well within all the normal boundaries for getting your money back, and would easily win any legal action. They must know it.
|
My only concern is that the problem is a noise, with no other real symptoms, so its hard to say its a serious fault without knowing what the fault is and even the garage dont know that.
|
|
BUT, as they have tried to resolve it, by default they have accepted it as a problem. As yet unresolved.
|
|
True, but ive read several times that a couple of months is an unreasonable time in the garage, not 8 days. Thats why my instinct says replacement car rather than money back.
|
>> True, but ive read several times that a couple of months is an unreasonable time
>> in the garage, not 8 days. Thats why my instinct says replacement car rather than
>> money back.
>>
Go in with a glass half full attitude, and you will not come out with a glass half full result.
|
They have had TWO goes at fixing it. Don't look on it as how many days they have had it, more like how many days have you!
But as I said further up the thread, its up to you to negotiate, Its better for the garage to source you another car. Its really your call - you are in the driving seat here.
|
And now I will throw in some Zero opinion.
I don't rate your garage, they are a pile of monkeys, they can't fix anything and by your own admission the pre sale check was sketchy at best. The beast was also massively overpriced.
I would get my money back, wave them goodbye and never darken their front step again.
|
For goodness sake Stu put the Mrs on and we'll tell her what's what. How many posts does it take for you to realise what a strong case you have and walk back in with the confidence that a cheque will be in you hand as you exit the building.
As I say take the loan car back, take in all the docs for the Wagon plus the spare keys, take the Mrs to give you a lift home then speak to the dealer principal.
|
>> Get your money back Stu......
>>
seconded.
>> Am I entitled to it at this stage?
Google is your friend.
www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/know-your-rights/cars/
Last edited by: John H on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 10:00
|
Where is the bangernomics brigade?! Surely this sorry saga proves their point that spending a reasonable wedge on a dubious 5 year old car is the biggest risk of all?
Cash back please, and spend 950 quid on a used Focus/Mondeo Stu. You know it makes better sense...
|
|
Agreed but maybe your 3.5k on a Mondeo/Vectra - my choice would be a Vectra.
|
>> Where is the bangernomics brigade?! Surely this sorry saga proves their point that spending a
>> reasonable wedge on a dubious 5 year old car is the biggest risk of all?
>>
Key word "dubious".
Stu is very very particular about the make, size, shape, and obsessed about MPG and complete-lack-of-kerb-appeal of any car he will have pay to come near his kerb.
|
>> troll?
>>
who? - me, Pugugly, or NickinNZ?
|
>> op
>>
One does often wonder, but one could not possibly comment.
|
>>>troll
Undoubtedly it would seem Stu's forum character is based on careful study of the internet troll.... but oddly it appears he does really exist in this form :-)
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 10:44
|
I think if any of us were to reveal such detail about our lives, relationships and tribulations as stu and, indeed, Rattle, do, then we'd all potentially leave ourselves open to accusations of trollery.
But I believe both stu's and Rattle's bona fides have been supported by other forum members.
(I mention Rattle as he's often accused of the same misdemeanour.)
|
...but oddly it appears he does really exist in this form :-)...
I reckon Rattle is another poster who would be branded a troll on many forums.
But a few c4p members have met him and Stu.
So for better or ill, they do both exist.
|
|
Yes Rattle too seemed to have studied the troll handbook when he started posting on HJ but he's matured well into a valued Panda loving beer drinking clubber :-)
|
Im afraid I really do exist. You may have guessed, I am a little eccentric, but happy to be so at such a young age.
Im simply brave enough to share my motoring woes, which of late, have been especially exciting.
Before this, I had a Daihatsu Charade that had no more than rattling brake pads to worry about, which I owned for two years and a Suzuki Carry which never went wrong, also owned for two years, so ive not always been Captain Calamity, I just think my planets arent aligned or something.
UPDATE:
Went to dealer this morning, salesman was day off, workshop manager AND guy who was currently working on my car were both on courses ( for Wagon Rs I hope! )however, I snared the dealer principle instead which was prob the best fish I could bag.
He was only vaguely aware of what was going on with my car, but I explained my displeasure with the idea that after a week, they still had no answers and I was not willing to let this drag on for another week. He spent 10 minutes in the workshop appraising himself of whats been done and spoke to the guy who originally changed 5th gear. He apologised alot and said that he will have that mechanic take the car out today, then when he has spoken to him, he will call me with the next steps.
He admitted there was certainly an issue with the car, he acknowledged that it may be 'one of those cars' and cutting losses may be a better course of action in the end. He also seemed open to the idea of sourcing another car although he said another Wagon R might be tricky, but seemed happier when I suggested that id be open to suggestions within certain constraints.
I get the impression they want one final crack at a fix, but apparently changing the 5th gear bearings made a difference to the sound, but not an improvement. He also winced at the suggestion I made that the previous old lady owner may have bent it at the front in a pothole/kerbing incident given the state of the roads where she lives. He nodded that it may well be the case.
So I await a call later today.
|
|
So you have been palmed off with another "let me look at it and I will get back to you when I am not face to face with you and it will be easier to argue with you over the phone"?
|
|
I think it sounds like he's on your side, which must be good. I'd be happy with the outcome and be patient for now.
|
I got that impression Focus. He said that they 'the garage' would in no way be washing their hands of it and he even offered me a 2008 Pug Bipper van if that would be more practical for my work as a loan car.
I said id like to see if the car can even be sorted before I go picking loan cars, but it was nice he offered.
|
|
Not really, the guy has only just been brought into it, so I wouldnt expect him to make a snap decision without knowing exactly whats going on and he would be a brave man to request I turn up later on in person for further discussion.
|
>> So you have been palmed off with another "let me look at it and I
>> will get back to you when I am not face to face with you and
>> it will be easier to argue with you over the phone"?
No I think Stu has managed to open up all the practical options that is acceptable to him and the Garage.
It helps that he followed my advice. ;)
|
If they find a magic cure Stu and you decide you are happy to take the car when they tell you that they are confident the problem has been resolved ask if they are confident enough to extend the warranty to 6/9mths.
A 3mth warranty is the stuff of portacabins, alsations and camel coats not a main dealer.
|
Well, ive already floated the idea that Im of the opinion that the car is a potentially a bit citrus for me and that I have lost confidence in it.
I also said that I didnt want to go down the heavy-handed 'I want my money back' route but to find a mutually acceptable solution. He did say that if he had another Wagon R on the front, it would have been easy to do something quickly.
As it is, they dont, so I think he wants to find out if there is an end in sight for my Wagon and weigh up what he can offer.
|
|
Ball in their court now Stu - wait and see what happens. Go for something a bit more mainstream if you get the chance - Toyota or Nissan springs to mind....
|
|
The Mods are happy that Stu is not a troll....!
|
|
I used to be a moderator of a large forum and it would take about one day to sus out the trolls. Yes some people may seem like trolls but there are lots of ecentric people about!
|
|
Why thankyou, so kind sir, so kind :-)
|
Right, he phoned as promised.
Whats happening at this stage is he has left a note for the workshop manager to reach a conclusion about whether the issue with my car is realistically going to be resolved anytime soon.
The other mechanic drove the car and he is of the opinion that the issue lies outside of the gearbox, just to further complicate things.
The other salesman has been tasked with coming up with various replacement options which may be suitable, bearing in mind my need to carry things and my back, ie something of a similar nature to the Wagon R in abilities.
I was offered the Bipper van if thats better for my uses, which it is but I just put £20 of diesel in the 207 so I want to use that first and said I didnt want to play musical loan cars.
He suggested I speak to the workshop manager saturday about my Wagon, but I said instead, what ill do is come in on Monday in person and discuss the various options and make a decision then when everyone has had a chance to firm up the various issues.
I made it clearer than before that I had now totally lost confidence in the car, but made a point of saying that I was very happy that they were trying to resolve the issue and thanked him for his efforts.
So, see what shakes out on Monday. Im hoping the salesman has found something tasty avaliable for a swap.
|
Do you enjoy all this or is it actually causing a major head ache? I asked because it might have seemed like I enjoyed all my saga with the Corsa but it actually ended with me being very very close to a nervious break down and having to clear off to the South West coast for a week.
|
Im fine Rattle, because thankfully, I have a car albeit a loathsome Peugeot and they arent making this any harder than it has to be. The sagas with old cars wore on me abit, hence I got something newer with comeback - and its that comeback which makes the process rather hassle free.
In truth, Im making more of the stress its causing me to the garage than is actually the case. My wife had to stifle a few giggles this morning, she asked if I was trying to see just how much I could make the man feel guilty about my '6 year old car thats proved even more trouble than the old bangers'. I also may have said that I spent my entire retirement savings on this car...
In truth Rattle, ive had some much worse things happen in my life which make this car stuff rather insignificant, so no, Im not in the least bit stressed, just hopeful of a conclusion.
Last edited by: Wilberstuforce31 on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 17:13
|
I expect he can rustle up a nice white Daewoo Espero without much bother.
;-)
|
|
And charge £1495 for it but with a 3 month warranty :)
|
Crap happens in life though and it is stuff you cannot control. There is enough to cope with without all the hassle with cars. Again when my Panda had that minor fault it was annoying loosing an afternoon but in some ways the fault has shown me so far I can trust my dealer to fix things and it is a pleasent experience to deal with them.
Your next car hopefully will be trouble free :).
|
Yeah well, I can hope I guess :-)
I said to my wife, with my luck, I could buy a brand new car and the minute the salesman shows me the car, the engine will just collapse onto the floor at first sight.
Just to add to the dealer principles woes, I did point out that the loan car didnt even have working windscreen washers which I thought was a poor show - he seemed genuinely annoyed about that and remarked that it should never have happened.
I nearly laughed at that though as it seems no matter how hard they try, they keep shooting themselves in the foot. Its like watching a slow-motion car crash.
|
>> with my luck
You go out of your way to lengthen your odds :-) You canny say "with my luck"
|
Oh I dunno, I could have bought a Pug 206 or a Renault Laguna - now thats lengthening odds ( not so far fetched as on paper, I rather like the 206 Quicksilver estate with the Hdi engine, but id never pay money for one ).
Wagon R has a good rep for reliability, I just seem to have managed to buy the 1 in 1000 thats a dud. I expect I could have another one and it would be fine, but Im just not in the mood for that right now.
Since the dealer is doing the running and they can reach further than me, they may turn up something id never have looked at - Im certain that whatever they do offer up, they will go over it with a fine tooth comb to make sure we dont have a repeat performance.
|
>> now thats lengthening odds
It's not really stu. If a car has known faults, the next question to ask is how many of these cars are in circulation.
Granny's don't frequent motoring forums so there's little out there on Wagon R faults. Doesn't mean that Suzuki's figured out some magical way to make its smaller R&D budget melt away problems in a way that the big boys can't.
The wagon r doesn't have rep for anything, there were about 5 sold in the uk. Only one of the buyers frequents a motoring forum and based on what i've read, i'd have a Laguna any day.
The dealer do seem to be trying. Genuinely hope this works out well for you.
|
|
Then they have provided you with a car which cannot legally be used on the road. 3 points for driving a car without working washers :(
|
|
Indeedy. I think the fuse has gone. Its French though, must think its August.
|
|
.
Last edited by: Wilberstuforce31 on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 17:53
|
|
just a thought. do you have rubber mud flaps that coulb be touching
|
You do realise that the dealer is probably reading all this and now knows your negotiating strategy?
:-)
|
|
Ive said much the same to them, I dont mess about. I wouldnt say getting whats right is a strategy, its a goal. Besides, my personal circumstances arent all they seem ;-)
|
Earlier you said "Im afraid I really do exist."
now you say
>> Besides, my personal circumstances arent all they seem ;-)
>>
Not a troll, but not completely real either, as you now admit that some of the stuff you post isn't all it seems. ;-)
|
|
There is lots of stuff about my past which I have never posted and never will post on a public forum.
|
Theres a difference between the private and the public life, some of which I dont disclose for rather obvious reasons.
Ive never posted anything untrue, there is simply a side to my life which has a bearing on things I do which isnt up for grabs. Quite frankly, ive posted more about myself than most here ever do but its selective for good reason.
One member here has met me, infact I did a job for them, so if Im not real, nor are they...
|
I've probably met five or six people off here.
Again everything I have said is is true but there are some important details I may witheld.
The only white lie is when I first joined HJ to ask a question about a fault with my first car I didn't let on that I hadn't passed my driving test. Then I started to to post on the site on a more general basis and I am not sure when I revealed I was actually a learner, was quite a funny moment. But at no point had I actually said I had passed my test.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 21:41
|
>> The only white lie is when I first joined HJ to ask a question about
>> a fault with my first car I didn't let on that I hadn't passed my
>> driving test. >>
I didn't think one needed a driving licence to post on a motoring forum?
|
>> One member here has met me, infact I did a job for them, so if
>> Im not real, nor are they...
>>
Nah, this forum is populated entirely by spambots.
|
I am trying to find my own post when I revealed I was a learner and found this.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=69082
Quite ironic. I assume we are allowed to post to HJ on here?
|
|
Rattle, you are about to be struck by lightening, duck old son!
|
|
Oh, I would, but its all good sport :-)
|
:)
Incidently I am laughing at some my old posts. I really should have bought that Nissan Micra :p.
|
>> Oh, I would, but its all good sport :-)
>>
Beats fishing any day.
|
>> Nah, this forum is populated entirely by spambots.
>>
This particular bot seems to be in regular c4p use
tinyurl.com/5f4hbg (link to ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com)
and its twitter page tinyurl.com/4hrxrcy
Last edited by: John H on Thu 17 Feb 11 at 22:01
|
Ive heard back from the workshop. They are replacing 5th gear bearings AGAIN and all wheel bearings but there was some a hint of agreement that they may be chasing shadows on this. I siad a new 5th gear and bearings at 6 years old just isnt normal on any car but if the pre-sale work had been it id have let it go. Now the box has been open so many times I suggest they fit a zipper to it.
I had a conversation today with the salesman who sold me the car. He didnt try and talk the situation down and he went as far as checking the p/x cars coming in to see if there is anything else they can swap me into - as it happens there is although its a year older, but within what ill accept if the deal was right ( and not a Wagon R ).
I expressed that id lost confidence in the car and that Im very reluctant to accept it back 'fixed' or not because as he admitted, its unheard of for such problems with Wagons, so with that in mind, Im of the opinion now this particular example is flawed somewhere.
Have to wait until Monday to speak to the boss as only he can make decisions about car swaps etc, but he is already aware of my reluctance to take the old car back, so the chance to swap me into another car which is already on its way may prove a better option than trying to keep me in the current one.
By chance, I asked if the workshop could check the windscreen washer fuses, see if it was why the washers werent working on the 207 - turns out not, motor is shot - not good for a year old car really so they have put me in a Suzuki loan car. Much more solid feeling motor allround and half a tank of petrol :-)
So, hopefully Monday will result in a resolution, but its nice to know the swap idea is possible on a practical level and its a car which was on my shortlist, so no real compromise for me.
|
The problem with taking bits apart is you don't always know what finds its way inside. A dealer is unlikely to have the almost sterile assembly facilities of modern plants.
When the gearbox originally failed, you also have no idea of what swarf and other debris may have worked its way around.
|
do a hpi on this wagon r see if its been in the syrup of figs flood damage
you can do it for £5 via moneysaving exports
or get the weegi board out and talked to the deceased ex owner and see if he liked fishing close to the waters (very close)
|
|
I cant be bothered to check its history, I know its a one owner car and I have their name and address, so should I feel the urge I can knock on the door, but if they do offer to swap it, its a waste of effort to impose on someone about an old car I may not own next week.
|
|
Not sure I'd want to swap it for somebody else's equally dubious used, trade-in? Worth getting a look at it before the dealership start to clean it up?!
|
Well re replacement car, they said today that they would likely loan it out to me for several days before its prepped so I can make totally sure Im happy with it, which sounded like a good idea.
I think you will find any used car will be someone elses trade-in, thats why its a used car, not a new one.
|
Stu - some take it or leave it thoughts....
Strongly advise you to draw stumps and ask for a refund, enough is enough.
You spent £3.5k I think you said? Wrong amount to spend at a dealer. Too much of that is margin. Better to spend £2.5k privately and keep the rest for repairs / maintenance.
Forget obscure cars, go mainstream.
There is no such thing as too big. Small cars are just less useful.
|
I would have headed down the refund route, but since they have a car coming in that meets my exact requirements, I dont see any sense in going elsewhere since they are extremely motivated to sort this out and Im certain they will go over any replacement car with alot of care, more than anyone else would.
I know what the margins are, but its the warranty that has the value as proven rather starkly by my experience.
I have had a mainstream car on loan - its rubbish but according to journos, its some kind of good car - not the one I drove. There is absolutely no logic in buying a mainstream car just because its mainstream. All the lemmings buy 207s, they are everywhere, but ive driven nigh on 600 miles in one and I think they must be mad to want one. The Wagon R is a joint GM/Suzuki project and the Agila is about in decent numbers, so its a pretty mainstream car as they go, I see alot about, plus my best motoring experiences have been with odd, left-field cars. If anything, this one was a bit too conventional.
You spend your money on what you want, me, ill spend it on the sort of car that suits my needs. Whenever ive had big cars I cant wait to get rid and get something smaller.
Theres a lesson in that history somewhere. Get a small car.
|
|
As you wish of course. Minded to make smart remark about leading horses to water but I think enough said. Good luck Stu...
|
A wise man can separate bad luck from bad decisions and I think I know which were which.
|
|
The more decisions you make, the more likely you are to make a bad one.
|
Oh you mean Gordon Brown? :-)
Seriously, thats a comment of zero value. Decisions are either made for you or by you, I know which id rather.
|
Mainstream car - 600 miles covered. When it broke, easily and cheaply repaired.
Left field car - 30 miles covered then removed from the driveway. When it broke, nobody had any experience with them to fix it, labour costs went through the roof consequently. Moot point right now since you're not having to pay, but you will be paying any breakages in a few months !
I'm still for the mainstream choice!
|
How much is a new wiper motor for a 207 fitted?
I had a Charade, wasnt mainstream, far from it, did me great service, I think your wrong.
|
|
Stu - your thread title asks for advice. You have been given some. Up to you now. Choose wisely.
|
>> How much is a new wiper motor for a 207 fitted?
A lot cheaper than a new gearbox fitted :-)
>> I think your wrong.
You would :-P
Ahh I do kind of sympathise to an extent. The Charade seemed a decent car on paper, but it was dull as dishwater to use and needed chopping in, we're not here long and all that.
|
You cant account for a rare lemon of a car, its just unfortunate and you cant base all decisions on this one instance.
The Charade was never dull, I kept it two years which for someone with a motoring attention disorder like me, thats a lifetime.
Im not going to have a Perodua or anything really odd, just another Suzuki hopefully.
|
The more times you change your car the more likely you are to taste citrus eventually.
As above, the more decisions you make, the more likely you are to have an unfortunate outcome.
And don't pretend to be the master of your own destiny - we know the voices in your head make you do stuff ;-)
|
I havent changed my car by choice since the Daewoo. Three car changes forced in a row, I have enough citrus to make a 5-Alive drink.
|
|
Always preferred Um Bongo meself... )
|
Actually, to be fair, the Daewoo went because I skimped on maintainance, the 1st Suzuki was a bad choice and the current one was bad luck.
Part of lifes rich path. Can spend your life second guessing yourself.
|
|
Are you telling us, in fact now admitting, that the block cracked on the Daewoo because you didnt check the anti-freeze?
|
No, its because I didnt change it. I know, its a shocker on here anyone admitting they made a mistake, I dont blame you for your suprise :-)
The coolant was mainly water although topped up with coolant. I knew it needed changing but I waited.
|
|
I can understand how you didn't have the balls to come clean at the time, I would have had doubts too.
|
I have never had a car with a block crack before, so I wasnt entirely sure what had happened. It seems the especially cold nights that week were too much for it.
In hindsight, I know what I should have done, but with old cars you take the odd chance with maintainance sometimes and 99% of the time you get away with it.
In a way, its what has convinced me not to bother with old cars again for a while.
|
I doubt it would cause a major problem, the coolant in the Fiesta according to the service records is several years old, it does get topped up very so often with neat coolant. I did pay to have the coolant changed on my Corsa but I wish I didn't bother as the head gasket went 6 months later.
I would think it was unlikely that old coolant would have caused your head to crack but it was very cold at the time so who knows. Either way I am not taking any chances with the Panda and the coolant is being changed as per service schedule, actually I think it is every 8 years or something daft! The modern punk stuff lasts so much longer.
I would say with old cars it is always a major risk. The Fiesta for example was sold because it was overheating in traffic, we discovered that a day after we had bought it, and quickly resigned to the fact it was a shed, it turned out it was just a stuck thermostat and it has been fine since.
|
>> The coolant was mainly water although topped up with coolant.
Rattle he says it was mostly water. So no doubt the extreme low temperatures did cause it to crack. Any other winter he'd have got away with this. Bad luck due to the weather. I'm sure Stu would have got around to doing it at some point.
|
You know somethings been bugging me about this bearing type noise (if that's the right description) that won't go away despite them guessing and slinging bits in...that's a garage i won't be using by the way.
Has anyone there thought of swapping the tyres and wheels off another similar car to see if the problem disappears or possibly becomes easier to trace.
There was drone from the rear of the C2 from say 50mph upwards, i thought it might be a rear wheel bearing on the way out, but had a gut feeling if it might be tyre related.
Swapped the 2 brand new Vredesteins to the back and put the half worn Michelins to the front, hey presto whine has vanished...Mich's will stay on the front, SWM can spin them out and i'll put 2 more Vred's on....yes i know big brother wouldn't approve, but i really couldn;t acre less what he thinks.
It won't take long to spin the Mich's out, would have more grip on an inner tube...useless in the wet.
|
>> There was drone from the rear of the C2 from say 50mph upwards, i thought
>> it might be a rear wheel bearing on the way out, but had a gut
>> feeling if it might be tyre related.
I had this scenario with my car. There was a distant droning/rumbling noise from the back which I thought might be the tyres, which were brand new and the noise was only there when they'd been fitted. So I took them back (Avons) and had two Goodyears fitted. Same noise, and it now seems after much digging that one of the CV joints in the nearside driveshaft is on the way out. It's been like this now for two years, and isn't getting any worse, so I'll live with it. Must be the fact that it doesn't need to turn and swivel like a front joint, so it's maybe wearing in only one plane. That's my theory anyway.
I don't know why I hadn't noticed the noise before the new tyres were put on. They were quieter, so I guess the old ones were drowning out the noise with tyre roar.
Last edited by: corax on Sun 20 Feb 11 at 18:38
|
Same noise, and it now seems after much digging that one of the CV
>> joints in the nearside driveshaft is on the way out. It's been like this now
>> for two years, and isn't getting any worse, so I'll live with it.
Are the CV boots normal easy to get at C (not those infernal inverted things the ends of which seem to clamped inside)...if so would be half an hours work to peel the rubbers back and repack all joints with fresh CV grease and put a cable tie on the boot.
At one time this was part of my service routine when i bought a car with CV joints...getting lazy and neglectful now in me dotage..;)
|
>> At one time this was part of my service routine when i bought a car
>> with CV joints...getting lazy and neglectful now in me dotage..;)
I was just going to replace the driveshaft with a good used one if it got worse GB. But I fancy a change and I'm looking for a replacement car this year, probably a petrol Accord, in fact the same engine as your daughter has in her Civic. By the way, how is she finding the car? Faultless I hope?
|
But I fancy a change and I'm looking for a replacement car
>> this year, probably a petrol Accord, in fact the same engine as your daughter has
>> in her Civic. By the way, how is she finding the car? Faultless I hope?
>>
Yes it's working out well thanks, nothing bad to report, and now she's used to it it's grown on her, it could be more economical but she drives like the devil himself, glad it's not a type R or the DC5 she really yearned for.
I really like those Accords, hate the very latest shape though what were they thinking, and if i wasn't keeping the MB...you heard it here first...i'd probably be looking for one meself.
It was the heartless sale of the ever faithful Betsy that made me realise what i was doing, and i couldn't bring meself to let her go to goodness knows where, she goes back on the road 1st March.
|
Oh you beauty. Hook, line and sinker !
:-)))
|
>> Oh you beauty. Hook, line and sinker !
:-)))))))))))
Edit..was that you in the red Cashcow M6 sth late thismorning Hump...looked like someone using a dodgy clip on bike carrier had to stop as something had come loose.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 20 Feb 11 at 19:12
|
|
Certainly not...one has roof mounts don't y'know ? Anyway, mine's black, she wouldn't like her's getting muddy. Dear me no...
|
>> and if i wasn't keeping the MB..
Good man, after all the (expensive) work you've done, it has to be one of the better examples. Hope you enjoy it this summer, and of course you can hold your head up high knowing that you didn't follow the same dastardly route as a certain Mondeo man :)
|
>> Good man, after all the (expensive) work you've done, it has to be one of
>> the better examples.
Well for better or worse it's getting very expensive this week, it's going in for an LPG conversion.
|
>> didn't follow the same dastardly route
Don't you start !
:-)
|
Well, the noise sounds like a wheel bearing does when its truely shot, so not a rumble really, more of a quiet grinding noise - like a rubbing noise really but it has the feel of a drivetrain sourced one.
They have balanced the tyres to get rid of any vibrations from them, but there isnt another Wagon about to swap wheels with.
I think the basic problem is, despite many years of Suzukis between them, you can tell from the furrowed brows that they genuinely have never come across the issue before with these cars and because its essentially a noise, with only a slight vibration felt thro the floor, I can see the practical difficulty of finding it.
Its very easy if its a common fault because you will go straight to it, but not one of the mechanics has ever heard such a thing.
My personal suspicion is that the chipped 5th gear is symptomatic of another failure in the box somewhere. The reason they are changing the bearings again is just to rule out the new set being 'tight' as the noise changed slightly but didnt go away.
My feeling is that means something else may be acting upon the bearings ( and 5th gear ) which is causing the noise. So the route cause may not be the source of the noise, which would be why changing the bearings affected, but didnt solve the sound.
I wonder myself whether other bearings have failed perhaps.
When all is said and done, the car has doen 36k and it shouldnt be having these failures for another 100k minimum, which means its a dog, which is what I shall put to the boss tomorrow. To my mind, even if they fix the sound, how long until it comes back? Just outta warranty no doubt!
|
so you refuse to speak to the previous owners
and you deal with a garage that cant discover a major noise yet apparently have a fully equipped workshop
very interesting
|
Not a refusal, more a whats the point, Im not keeping it so why bother.
I never said it was a major noise, but they have decided its indicative of something serious hence the hair pulling.
Thats quite a silly thing to say since the noise happened after sale so how could I not deal with the supplying dealer? Please id love your answer to that.
All hail car dealer of the century who has never, ever sold a car with a single problem... yeah, sure.
|
if i cant solve a problem i get someone else to have a look
i dont strip down gearboxes throw in a few bits and hope its cured
i source a low mileage replacement box or ive even had the gearbox professionally rebuilt by men that do it for a living if needs be
ive never had a customer car for 2 weeks and not been able to find a noise in what is basically an orange box with 4 wheels nailed on
its hardly complicated car of the week is it
|
Since they dont really know whats causing the problem, it would be a bit stupid to send it to a specialist with no idea what you want them to do or as you put it, thro bits in - they can do that.
They arent even sure if its the gearbox. It could be crash damage yet.
You keep overlooking the main point so ill re-state it for you - I DO NOT care what they do with the Wagon, Im not going to accept it back.
|
>> You keep overlooking the main point so ill re-state it for you - I DO
>> NOT care what they do with the Wagon, Im not going to accept it back.
>>
>>>> you have no power over this im afraid
it is entirely at the dealers discretion, thats why if you read between the lines you would arm yourself with reason previous keeper disposed in case you want to go to court at a future date
|
|
If I need to go to court then ill do that then.
|
Couldn't help wondering when Bellboy would comment, and what he would say. So far I'm not disappointed.
I didn't expect support for Stu's position which seems dubious to me too. He's bought a fairly cheap unusual jalopy which seems no good. The dealer seems to be patient if incompetent. But why is Stu, a car enthusiast, wasting his time and the dealer's in this way? There's something, I dunno, a bit unholy about it.
Perhaps it seems amusing but I wouldn't pose as a moron car buyer in this way. I get bored just at the thought of it...
|
I know a Dog who bought a Dolomite Sprint but hated the damn thing (with a vengeance!)
it was like driving a car with solid tyres & no suspension.
He phoned the dealer after a few days and said "can I swop it for that Capri guv'nor" ... (no chance).
|
Im wasting the dealers time?? And Im a moron. Nice. Sorry your outta order.
You know what, say what you like, Ive got drawn into trying to justify myself when frankly I dont have to and I should have realised that earlier.
I do hope that if you ever take you car back to a dealer they tell you not to waste their time, see how you like it.
|
>> And Im a moron. Nice. Sorry your outta order.
That wasn't what I said. Look again. I think you know a lot better than the car buyer you are presenting to the dealer.
I didn't even suggest you shouldn't do it either Stu. I just said I would think it boring to play that particular role.
|
I think AC was saying he wouldn't act dumb and didn't think Stu should either. He was implying you might be better off letting them know you know a little bit more about the problem/cars in general.
I hope you can hand the car back and get your money or a decent car instead. Money might be best.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 20 Feb 11 at 21:37
|
Do you know what irritates me the most? The presumption that ive tried to play some kind of car buying moron to the dealer or anyone else.
The dealer knows ive worked with cars my entire working life, it was on that basis many of my arguements have been made - ie I even I know this situation isnt normal so please no BS. Why the heck should I have to declare the entire conversation word for word. I asked for advice on consumer rights.
Secondly, I have NEVER bought a used car from a dealer and had such problems, which was why I asked for advice about the legal position. What I didnt ask for were snide remarks about my buying choice - they have zero relevance to getting a resolution.
I took my car in to enquire whether a noise was normal, a week later my car goes in for a look on THEIR suggestion and I dont see it again for approaching two weeks, still they cant tell me the exact cause but the lengths and type of work they have undertaken have made it quite clear to me that they think its serious.
Im trying to remain positive but I cant say Im enjoying it, I just want a car to take home and think about something else.
The notion that Im dragging this out is frankly offensive. I cant do anything but ask, the decisions come from the dealer. I gave them a fair crack at fixing it, now Im giving them a fair crack at an alternative solution. Ive taken on board the actual useful advice given when I first asked.
|
For this thread I think you and everyone has let it be unfocussed. If you wanted specific legal advise then ask for it. The thread title with 'car saga a new chapter' might not have helped. Should have been more obvious you wanted legal advice.
And had the original question been more focussed we'd have seen less thread drift.
I don't think anyone on here thinks you're dragging this out - you want a car and we all know that. You've had bad luck with a car that was fine when you choose it.
I think you're working yourself up over nothing on here though. Chill a bit?
|
>> The notion that Im dragging this out is frankly offensive. I cant do anything but ask, the decisions come from the dealer.
Stu: I hadn't fully understood that (it's a very long thread). So, sorry if I gave offence.
Any joy with the noise yet?
|
<< 1st Suzuki was a bad choice and the current one was bad luck.
So you are hoping it is third time lucky then? Its not a Liana is it??
|
Stu - drop your shoulders a bit chum. No one or at least I don't think anyone is trying to get you to justify anything. Of course you must decide what to do next. But to be fair, you did and have asked for opinion and advice. It has been given and from what I can see there is an overwhelming view that you might, shall we say, have an opportunity to make a better decision...
I read the thread mainly as some of your invisible internet friends trying to gently help you. You must of course decide whether they, or you, are right but please don't get too defensive. You asked for their comments. Now it's up to you. I wish you luck and the wisdom to make the right decision as I'm sure the majority here do, even if some disagree with your strategy.
|
I'd like to think the forum plus (1) fairly recent experience and (2) additional funds to consider cars a lot newer.
I wish Stu all the best resolving this. Working out what's wrong with a car can be trial and error - proving the negative. I've had brand new leased cars like this. The Passat I had in 2001 had a turbo problem from day one.... but the garage insisted it was a gearbox problem and swapped that. Then the turbo. And then were really apologetic when they thought the problem was still there. The new turbo had actually sorted it and they were concerned over the normal turbo sound.
My point is fixing cars is not easy and can take time and money. The same Passat I mention racked up tens of hours to fix a wind noise and later an airbag problem. Glad I paid none of it.
Now thinking of my next car in October...
|
Have the front tyres been checked for "roundness" Stu ?
What I mean is have the tyres gone a bit square over time, as this can cause an unbalanceable imbalance (um ok) that can cause vibration and rumbling at certain speeds.
The fact it seems to appear at 45 and fade at 75 suggests it's not inside the g'box to me - worn bearing generally only get noisier with speed.
Easy to check: jack front wheels off ground and spin them - watch the same spot carfully (say top of wheel) and watch if the tread rises and falls with the loss of circularity.
Medium-to-long shot but takes minutes to check and no other test known to man will find this out ;-) (other than trying replacement 'known-good' wheels/tyres)
|
|
I think the fading over 75 is more due to wind and engine noise than the sound disappearing, it is simply drowned out - its not quiet at 80.
|
Still worth a quick check - I got into my old man's car a while back and thought the steering was wrecked - wobbling about and vibrating away - jacked it up and had a look, nothing appeared damaged - inspected the tyres - all good tread and no lumps/sidewall bulges - no wheel bearing noise evident.
Took it to KwikFit to get another opinion - guy took it for a run then jacked it up and showed me the lack of roundness in (all 4) tyres likely due to the old boy only doing 1000 miles/yr for the previous 6 years.
4 new tyres and drove straight as an arrow and no more rumbling.
Bought 4 Michelins at Costco ... sorry Kwik fit ;-)
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 21 Feb 11 at 00:17
|
Right, I have a resolution.
The Wagon and I are no more. The dealer principle had a chat with workshop today, said to me he wasnt satisfied with their response and he fully understands my desire to walk away from the car so he decided another course of action is appropriate.
I have a replacement car ( it helps having a chat with salesman who then has a quick leaf through p/xs coming in ) in the pipeline. Its not in until next week but its been earmarked for me. He has booked it in the workshop to be checked over as soon as it arrives so that the following day it will be ready for me to have a good drive of it, make sure its ok for me.
There would also be some money coming back to me as part of the deal which sweetens it abit.
It is certainly well worth getting the ear of the organ grinder in these matters, he has sorted me out in two working days from not knowing what was going on to a mutually acceptable resolution. Good guy and he makes serious effort to keep the customer happy, even if in this instance he was swimming against the tide ( and the workshop's lack of drive to fix it - he was actually quite critical of their approach to getting the job done ).
I am somewhat happier now I know where its going and I have a loan car to tide me over. Thanks for the advice about resolutions, ive never had to go down this route before and it really helped to know what I can expect.
|
|
Good resolution - and good customer service...!
|
Excelent - Good resolution.
Now what left field shed does he have lined up for you? ;)
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 21 Feb 11 at 13:20
|
|
Haha, it was on my shortlist and ive never known a man so motivated to make sure the car he is selling has no faults at all. I suspect it will get the fine tooth comb treatment, he made a remark that it is inconceivable that they sell me another problem car.
|
|
I've always walked away from any car with a problem. More so if they promise to fix it before I buy it.
|
|
Any used cars will have some sort of nibble or quirk but as longs as it has a silent gearbox and no vibrations you should be happy :)
|
I think it always depends what the problem is. If its a component that you simply remove and replace with a new one, or its a minor part like a wiper motor, thats not too bad, but in my mind, engine and gearbox internals are a no-no really.
I had a look round an example of the car Im hopefully getting today in a car park, almost the exact car, same colour etc and it all looks like what I thought it was.
It is my kinda car.... so Zero will hate it, I consider that a selling point! :-)
|
|
As long as its not in my way on the A43 or the A14 I don't care.
|
Dont worry, ill reveal all with piccy so you can hate on it abit as and when I get it :-)
I shall try to no hold you up and you will be easy to spot being the only Lancer owner without taxi plates on their car ;-)
|
|
Fifi will moon at you as I pass.
|
I have to disagree with Rattle and Stu.
Why should any used car have a problem Rattle?
I wouldn't sell a car that needed a new wiper motor and I certainly wouldn't buy a car in that state. I'd assume the problem was much more serious and that's why the seller hadn't bothered fixing it.
|
|
It depends on how much you are paying for it and how it is described.
|
I was referring to dealer bought cars, where you can make niggles like that condition of sale.
Private sales Im usually picky unless under pressure.
|
>>>As long as its not in my way on the A43 or the A14 I don't care.
We travelled in company with a silver Lancer estate on the A14 last night for a while... driven by a Zero kind of guy... I wondered if it migh be..... but it was only going 70-75??
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 21 Feb 11 at 16:57
|
|
Not silver, mine is metalic blue. It will be flying up the A1 this week.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 21 Feb 11 at 16:59
|
|
A broken wiper motor is not a niggle, it is a fault which makes the car unroadworthy. I was talking about a tiny scratch on a £2k car, a chipped alloy, maybe a slight mark on one of the seats etc.
|
Car saga, new chapter, advice? - Alanovich
