It absolutely pe'es me off when I get stuck behind a service bus that is trundling along at between 15 and 20 mph, obviously ahead of schedule. It seems to happen moreso in the evenings where I guess they have less passengers.
What should bus drivers be doing if this is the case? I have heard they can be penalised for waiting at bus stops idling, but can also be punished for arriving ahead of schedule?
I may have just answered my own question?
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You just knew I'd be along shortly didn't you? ;-)
To be honest, I do feel sometimes that bus drivers can't do right for doing wrong. Not having a go at you there, Bobby - not at all. It's just the general impression that I get...
To answer the points in your posts then:
1) Yes, at certain locations and in certain towns and cities, bus drivers can be fined if they leave their engines idling for longer than five minutes (I *think* it's five minutes...). I can see why this happens, but as always I think that it's the old sledgehammer/nut approach.
2) Yes, we can be punished for running early. We have it drummed into us that there is always an acceptable reason for running late, but *never* for running early. It is simply inexcusable as far as the management are concerned. As a matter of fact, we are allowed to run up to one minute early, before VOSA (the regulatory body who oversee bus travel, amongst many other things) would even think about imposing a penalty on the operator. However, all of the large operators have a 'zero-tolerance' approach to running early.
I can totally understand your frustration at being stuck behind a bus travelling at that speed. I hate it when I have to do that, as I know that I am inconveniencing the people behind me. However, I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.
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>> 2) Yes, we can be punished for running early. We have it drummed into us
>> that there is always an acceptable reason for running late, but *never* for running early.
Yup my old man confirmed this years ago when he was a train driver. There is never ever, no way no how, any excuse for departing any stop ahead of schedule.
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I hate it too, I hate it even more when they drive at 15mph then pull in at a bus stop at an angle (when there is nothing in the way) forcing you to over take.
Why can't bus drivers just switch the engine off they are running early?
Personaly I think all buses should operate on a smart card system so no passangers hold up the driver asking if the bus goes to Fallowfield. I scream in my head when I hear that.
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>> Why can't bus drivers just switch the engine off they are running early?
>>
Because there is probably a very good chance that the bus will not start again. It's not so much a problem on our newer buses (59 plate) but we have two 54 plate single deckers (ADL Darts, if you're interested) that have a habit of not starting on the dash ignition once they are stopped.
Can't defend your first point though - I always try to get my bus into a stop in the most convenient way for other road users. Anybody who doesn't is, in my opinion, utterly anti-social.
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Thought buses not starting was just a myth but I did wonder if that was the reason. Why are they so difficult to start?
Also do you get told off if you're running late? The amount of times I see bus drivers go through on red is quite shocking, I can only assume they are risking their licence because they will get told of at the other end if they are too late.
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>>Why are they so difficult to start?
No idea, I'm afraid. I just drive 'em, I don't pay much attention to the oily end ;-) I'd imagine it's down to budgets as the big groups have strict maintenance budgets to adhere to and if, for example, they have a run of gearboxes to replace or somesuch then some of the more mundane (but non safety-critical) maintenance may well be put off.
>> Also do you get told off if you're running late?
If we have a valid reason for running late, then no. However, if we are late for no good reason then we are invited to tea and biscuits with the boss.
>>The amount of times I see bus drivers go through on red is quite shocking
I take it you mean 'amber gambling' and not proper red light running?
>> I can only assume they are risking their licence because they will get told of at the other end if they are too late.
Nope, they're probably risking their licence because they're busting for a widdle, having been in the driving seat for five hours without the chance to get out, or they want to try to get a decent break and not just the 31 minute legal minimum. Not a valid excuse for driving dangerously, but I have to put my hand up to that one, on very rare occasions.
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>>..or they want to try to get a decent break and not just the 31 minute legal minimum>>
Our local Arriva drivers would probably give their right arm for such a lengthy break...:-)
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Our local Arriva services have several time points on routes which drivers have to adhere to if they arrive early i.e. they wait a minute or so as necessary before carrying on.
However, as my town is a seaside resort, bus times can sometimes be a little way out, especially in the summer, due to heavy traffic and you have the occasional scenario of two buses arriving in tandem on what is normally a 10 minute service on my route.
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I have been on quiet a few buses where they have gone through on red, I mean like 2-3 seconds after it has changed to red. This mainly happens on the night buses especially on the way into town and there is no traffic about until it reaches town.
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>>I have been on quiet a few buses where they have gone through on red, I mean like 2-3 seconds after it has changed to red. This mainly happens on the night buses especially on the way into town and there is no traffic about until it reaches town.<<
Most traffic lights have cameras on them, so I find this unlikely or there would be a real shortage of bus drivers.
Could it be your judgement is being made through the bottom of a beer glass Rattle:)
Pat
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>> >>I have been on quiet a few buses where they have gone through on red,
>> I mean like 2-3 seconds after it has changed to red. This mainly happens on
>> the night buses especially on the way into town and there is no traffic about
>> until it reaches town.<<
Would you rather the driver stamped on the brakes and you ended up in a pile of passengers at the front of the bus?
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>> >> I mean like 2-3 seconds after it has changed to red.
>>
>> Would you rather the driver stamped on the brakes and you ended up in a
>> pile of passengers at the front of the bus?
I know buses take longer to stop than cars, but if he is going through a red light 2-3 seconds after it has gone red, he's doing something wrong. Badwolf?
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>> I know buses take longer to stop than cars, but if he is going through
>> a red light 2-3 seconds after it has gone red, he's doing something wrong. Badwolf?
You called? :-)
Buses do take a lot longer to stop than cars, and you can't get away with jamming on the anchors in a bus in quite the same way you might in a car. However, a good PCV driver should anticipate traffic lights changing and ease off the throttle on approach. I was always taught (both by my car, and my bus driving instructors) that traffic lights don't 'suddenly' change so therefore they should never take a competent driver by surprise.
If Ratts is genuinely witnessing drivers going through red lights as late as he says he is, then he should report them. I'm not sure about Stagecoach Manchester, but I know that if I'm caught by my company (Stagecoach in Lancashire) going through a red light then I will be disciplined and possibly sacked.
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49/49A, Stu? :-)
When I worked for Arriva (and Southport & District Buses before Arriva took over), things ran exactly as Stuartli describes. Timing points every so often, and a flexible attitude which meant that when one timing point was identified a being a problem (Birkdale Village - we just couldn't get into the stop due to illegally parked cars), it was shifted up the road to a quieter location.
The trouble is, though, that Merseytravel generally provide excellent timetable on most of the bus stops. This leads passengers to believe that they are set in stone. However, the drivers only have around five timing points on their running boards. I have explained many, many times that I cannot possibly know the time displayed on every single bus stop between Crossens and Woodvale! (A journey of approximately nine miles)
Last edited by: Badwolf on Mon 14 Feb 11 at 23:43
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Badwolf.
As much as I swear at bus-drivers, I had to praise the one that drove us down from The Great Orme to Llandudno (did I pronounce that correct?). The manoeuvres required to get around the parked cars were beyond my abilities, as I commented to the driver at the time. He replied that he enjoyed the challenge.
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I, too, love a challenge like that. Something that tests my skill really helps my day along. As long as I get it right, though...
In my coach driving days, holiday tours to the Highlands invariably gave me more than the odd challenge, not least the manouevre required to park up at the hotel in Strathpeffer that we used. I had to reverse uphill, round a blind corner into a space that may, or may not, already have a coach in it. In the dark. Quite a few of my passengers paused to watch. Which really helped...
Spot on with the pronunciation, by the way :-)
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The high turnover of bus drivers would suggest its not as easy as it appears.
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>> The high turnover of bus drivers would suggest its not as easy as it appears.
Amen to that. Quite a few people apply to our depot thinking that it'll be a breeze then, once they've passed their test and spent a few weeks out on their own they realise that it is actually quite a mentally demanding job and nowhere near as cushy as they thought.
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Well, with my mum working for one of the big companies, I hear all the stories and what I know for sure is that driving the bus is actually a small part of it.
I thought about doing it, they thought id breeze the driving bit, but I know the rest would be enough to cause a breakdown.
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>>49/49A, Stu? :-)>>
Yes..:-) First class service and one I've used for decades (No. 9 originally!)
The timing point nearest to me is Lane Ends and the drivers do adhere to it. I would have though though that the level crossing at Birkdale station would be the biggest bugbear, followed by Lord Street traffic.....
Incidentally the comparatively few women bus drivers are all top notch.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Tue 15 Feb 11 at 10:26
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>> passengers hold up the driver asking if the bus goes to Fallowfield. I scream in my
>> head when I hear that.
>>
>>
Where the hell is Fallowfield? On the rare occasion that I use a bus I will be off my patch and not familiar with the routes. The last time I used a bus was in Durham a couple of years ago, we had local friends with us so did not upset the natives. Do you know all the bus routes in Edinburgh Ratts? I thought not, I don't either.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 15 Feb 11 at 08:35
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Fallowfield is the main student area of Manchester, so in October you get a lot of people getting on any bus and saying "Fallowfield" they then look very confused when the bus driver says it dosn't go there.
For students living in Manchester there is only two places that exist, "town where da klubs r" and "Fallowfield!.
I know most the bus routes in Manchester as I lived so long without having a car, had to travel on them today to kill tome but wasn't so bad as I had no destination to get to, I was simply on the buses because it was warm.
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...I was simply on the buses because it was warm...
Pensioners in London use to ride the buses for hours for the same reason.
The drivers called them Wombles.
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hehe
I did go for a good 90 minute walk but it was getting too cold and I was worried the further I went out (towards the peak district) the further I was from any bus service.
The altnerative would have been to spend nearly four hours shopping in Stockport.
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>>The altnerative would have been to spend nearly four hours shopping in Stockport. >>
Even better would be no time there at all..:-)
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I am not sure if you have been to Stockport so you probably cannot comment, however you are right.
Stockport is next so some very influent areas but the town centre can only be described as a hell hole. It has a few nice buildings but it has lots its way in the past 15 years. I think it is getting a refurb but I think the amount of money the council needs to spend on it is money they won't have.
I only ever used to go because it had a Richersounds but now Manchester city centre has one there is not a single reason for me to go other than to the dealer.
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>>I am not sure if you have been to Stockport so you probably cannot comment, however you are right.>>
Many a time...:-)
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I will let you off then, it is just seems to be one of them places which people say is a craphole even though they never never visited it. It does have some charm but it would need £100s of millions spent on it to make into the town it should be. The place has so much history it is such a shame.
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I thought the car was in the FIAT dealer for 3 hours. Walking into Stockport and back would take a bit of time. Or you could have hopped on a bus to towards Disley for a walk at Lyme Park. Better than being in Stockport!! As you know.
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It is exactly what I did. The dealer is off St Mary's way, was at the dearly for 3 hours and 10ish minutes (because I got there twenty minutes early). I took the 192 and then walked towards Disley but had no idea of my bearings or how far it would be, so I then walked back to Hazel Grove and walked to just beyond the Poynton border and past Brookside Garden centre, I then got the 192 back into Stockport and walked down Hillgate back to St Mary's way. Should have gone to Lyme Park really if I had planned it better!
It if the first time I have ever driven into Stockport town centre, driven to Heaton Norris and Chapel and Reddish loads of times. Was mostly easy but made sure I planned ahead so I always knew what lanes to be in.
There is no way I would have had the confidence to drive through Stockport town centre 6 months ago.
It is just annoying that the dealer is so far away, I can't think of any brand which has a dealer further away from me. My next nearest dealer is in Warrington.
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The nearest used to be a little nearer on St Marys Way. But they closed down... and briefly the nearest FIAT dealer was at the bottom end of St Mary's way co-located with the Citroen dealer (was Evans Halshaw?).
Next nearest is probably Hyde for you! And then Bury, Bolton and Oldham.
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I think Stockport is closer, the shortest way mileage ways is straight down Didsbury Road but that roundabout phases even hardened drivers. The A6 is quite straight forward despite the traffic.
Out of interest do you how long the current Fiat dealer has been on St Mary's way? It looks like a very new building.
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When I asked the Durham bus driver if he would accept my Scottish free bus travel pass he replied, "No chance you lot don't accept ours". When I am in Perth (the Australian one) it doesn't work for a pensioners discount rail fare either. :-(
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The ticketing situation in Manchester a few years ago was very complicated. Now thanks to mergers and one ban by VOSA it has become a little bit simpler. The problem as I think this applies to all big cities out side of London that:-
You can buy weekly passes from the transport executive (e.g GMPTE, TFL) which would either be valid on trains, trams or buses depending on what you buy.
You can also buy passes from the bus company but they are only valid on that company's bus. It really dosn't encourage car drivers to use public transport because the ticketing system is so hard to understand if you're not used to it.
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But most buses heading down Oxford Road do go through Fallowfield. One of the busiest bus routes in Europe during term time.
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A hell of a lot don't know, you have the 47, 85 250, 16, 86(very regular service), 15, 111 (I guess you can say that does go to fallowfield) which don't.
Still enough for nearly everytime I am on the 86 to get held by people asking for Fallowfield and then driver having to explain it dosn't go there. Despite the bus stops all very clearing stating exactly where each bus goes with a full route map!. To be fair though in a strange city I have got confused with where buses go too.
I suspect when the tram arrives there will be less demand for the 86 service and when it comes to Didsbury there may be less 42s. The 42 to Stockport has already being cut a lot in the past ten years.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 15 Feb 11 at 21:54
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>> A hell of a lot don't know, you have the 47, 85 250, 16, 86(very
>> regular service), 15, 111 (I guess you can say that does go to fallowfield) which
>> don't.
Jeez. I have a choice of the D3 or errrr the D3. Hourly to Northampton or hourly to Daventry. To or from NH the route goes all round the Wrekin (well through Harpole anyway); quicker on a bike. Last regular service at night leaves the rail station at 18:09 so unless i'm finished in london by 16:30 it's useless.
Never ever early though!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 15 Feb 11 at 22:45
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>> 2) Yes, we can be punished for running early. We have it drummed into us
>> that there is always an acceptable reason for running late, but *never* for running early.
>> It is simply inexcusable as far as the management are concerned. As a matter of
>> fact, we are allowed to run up to one minute early, before VOSA (the regulatory
>> body who oversee bus travel, amongst many other things) would even think about imposing a
>> penalty on the operator. However, all of the large operators have a 'zero-tolerance' approach to
>> running early.
My father was a railway guard and they had a similar policy towards early running. The argument went along the lines that a passenger is always happy to see a late running bus/train arrive and take them away from the, possibly, wet and cold, stop but would never be happy to arrive at said stop one minute early to see the bus/train tail lights disappearing into the distance........
Last edited by: Cockle on Tue 15 Feb 11 at 11:23
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Absolute no-no on passenger trains, you go by the Public Timetable, it says you go at 1012, you go at 1012, even if that means sitting there for 5 or 10 minutes... Doesn't half worry the passengers when you do sit for that time, though... They then think you are late!
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" running early. It is simply inexcusable as far as the management are concerned"
Interesting! 'Twas only last Friday that I waited for the 14.45 No 40 . After 30 mins I asked a young lady if she knew whether the timetable was right. She said she knew the bus driver and rang him. She said that the 14.45 was running 7 minutes early - I therefore missed it! Naturally, the 15.45 was 15 mins late! What should have been a 5 min wait for bus turned into 80 mins. No doubt there were good reasons!
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Service buses ahead of schedule - Badwolf
