Ive owned my car a week and a half now. It was only 5 hours though before it was booked into the dealers though. I dont begrudge that it is, I find it faintly amusing really because they are now on course to really blow any chance of a profit in the car although I expect on paper they did at point of sale, but now warranty is paying so maybe its out of another budget.
I am rather fussy about the condition of my cars, even more so when they arent that old. I dont suffer odd noises or rattles gladly and this car is no different.
The car has a resonance at between 45 and 70 mph, worse under load and most noticeable in 5th. This made undulating dual carriageways very tiresome. The resonance was also accompanied with a vibration that could be felt through the floor.
Its one of those things you could either assume its minor at not worth bothering with or if your like me, an excuse to get your moneys worth out of the warranty. It was irritating though so I decided I wouldnt tolerate it and made sure I was back to the dealer asap so it doesnt appear I was willing to tolerate it for any amount of time.
The workshop manager immediately came out in the car with me and noted the noise and that he had no real clue what could be causing it, but booked it in a week later ( yesterday ) to investigate it and to allow him time to drive other similar cars.
From what I gather, driving other cars reinforced that the noise wasnt standard issue.
I also queried why one of the rear tyres which had a bulge in it to which he promptly had a look and said they would change that aswell, he looked annoyed it had been missed.
Yesterday I spoke to him and he said he still wasnt sure, they have done several road tests and cant identify anything obvious, but he wanted his workshop foreman to have a look who I presume is the most able mechanically as he seemed to want his opinion.
Today I get a call and the tune is very different, almost grovelling. Would you mind hanging onto the loan car until the middle of next week Sir, we want to remove the gearbox and they have ordered all the different bearings for the box and will change them, hoping that when they open it up, something will leap out at them as not quite right.
Now of course its a shame that ive spent all this money on a car and its already back in the garage, but somehow it isnt bothering me. Ive got this horrid 6 month old Pug 207 ( it was on the forecourt so Im guessing sales have donated it ) to keep me on the road and despite the fact that it is nigh on 6 years old and was just a 3.3k used car, the dealer are falling over themselves to fix it rather than fob me off with excuses.
They even got the tyres balanced as id noted a vibration at speed.
Its not that I think Im asking to much for the car to be right - I expect some fair wear and tear - but I do expect the major components to be right because I paid a premium for main dealer security of purchase and Im very glad I did. They are to put it simply, brilliant.
To go in with what seems a minor complaint and to be both taken seriously and no attempt to back out of repairs on such an old car has really stood out to me, which after so many years in this often patchy trade, has seriously impressed me.
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I now feel quite stupid, as I was reading this I was thinking wow somebody else exists similar to Stu but the more I was reading the more I realsied it was Stu was nearly fooled though.
I wonder how long it will be before they starting putting this track in your car?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8466eWyB5s
The bit 40 seconds in has to be written about you, apart from the fact you were about ten years old when this was written.
Joking asides I may end up getting the same reputation soon with my local dealer. To be fair yours have been very good and I would be surprised if I get the same experience.
Good luck with it, it sounds like the dealer is a bit emberassed about selling you this car. I wouldn't mind betting they offer you a credit note for the full value for the car next.
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>>I wouldn't mind betting they offer you a credit note for the full value for the car next <<
I was half expecting them to offer to buy it back tbh. When he said they were stripping the gearbox and had all the bearings on order, I nearly fell off my chair, I was genuinely suprised. Im not complaining, I love the car and Im happy to keep it if its fixed, but Im not sure about the economics of it for the dealer. That however, aint my concern.
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Well they will probably get the young ones do it who are probably on £10 an hour. It won't cost the dealer £50+ an hour will it.
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At the risk of the car coming back, id say they wont mess about, usually only the most reliable chaps get the big jobs.
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>> Well they will probably get the young ones do it who are probably on £10
>> an hour. It won't cost the dealer £50+ an hour will it.
>>
ROFL you think the 'young ones' will be on THAT much??
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Was meaning the qualified ones rather than the ones which have left school.
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Stu, how long a test drive did you take in it and up to what speed?
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Not sure he does go all that fast Bobby. Might spill his bucket...
:-)
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About 10 miles inc a blast up the A14 at 75, but with the original gearbox whine in 5th, its unlikely you would hear the noise. The workshop manager acknowledged that it was unlikely id have been able to identify it until the day I collected it.
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If it were me, I would be getting my money back and thinking about getting a different more reliable make and model of car.
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I agree with you Zero. ( Flippin' eck...again...)
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Everyone does in the end Humph. Its a bit like religious conversion.
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Oh no, my mental picture has just morphed from Boycie to Buddha in a trilby...
:-)
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I'm like Stu and don't want to put up with problems etc. And nor should I in a company car. But it's not out of warranty so concerned who is paying! If it's the lease company then that's fine if they budgeted for it but not so good if it's my cost centre!
It's booked in again tomorrow and a hire car booked. All costing...
So even though I've got it until late October... looks like I am allowed to start the selection process for its replacement. So in the near future some proper test drives will be arranged. Just need my manager to sign the paperwork.... he might wonder why I've got the paperwork so early mind.
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It is generally a very reliable model, its just one of those things, these models arent known for gearbox issues or infact any issues really, so once its fixed, Im happy to keep it. The main thing is it isnt costing me a penny.
This nearly new Pug Im driving has already got clonking front suspension and its only 6 months old. If thats mainstream engineering, I dont think Im any worse off sticking with what ive got.
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To be fair Stu higher cars are driven by maniacs, it has probably been over pot holes at 40mph and being up kerbs and all sorts.
The reason the Wagon R isn't known for that many issues is because it is rare, although the Aglia is more common.
It sounds like this car needs a new gearbox though.
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>> It is generally a very reliable model,
How can you say that! you have had two and both are shot well short of reasonable mileage!
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Indeed; how does the saying go? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, or something like that ;-)
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"Indeed; how does the saying go? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, or something like that ;-)"
Not even close Peter. It's an old Tennessee saying that goes like this.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A
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I used to say that about Fiestas, to be fair my dads has lasted 3.5 years and 40k, but my first one did 3000 miles before the engine blew up, my second lasted weeks before I realised the floor had more holes in it than Omslow's vest and the clutch was as worn as a Leyland National.
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As Z and his Disciples, i think i'd be wanting me lolly back.
They might as well have shoved a full recon box in it first time round.
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I recall your earlier thread about gearbox problems with your soon to be new motor.
A number of posters advised to to ask to see the replaced parts
Did you get to see these?
As always
Mark
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He's too late to ask for the money back, he'll ruin his relationship with his dealer if he does that and I remember stu saying he liked this dealer and had used before.
Bit unfair on the dealer to ask for money back now anyways, if it wasn't the car to choose then shouldn't lead the dealer to spend $$$ to make the car acceptible then throw it all back in their face. Ignoring all the I know my rights stuff and all that, it's just plain old unfair to treat someone (dealer or not) that way.
Could sound the dealer out on a swap for something else in inventory I suppose.
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Quite Skoda. To my mind, if a car has a fault, the dealer then does all they can to fix the car and rectify the issue, if at the end of that process the issue no longer exists, then they have met their obligations.
Had I bought from some independant dealer, I do wonder if id be preparing for small claims court and I am very grateful that Im not being forced to make much noise to get action.
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>>>They are to put it simply, brilliant.
Stu you are suffering a version of Stockholm Syndrome.
There is nothing brilliant about a dealer that fails to check a car they are selling with a 5th gear whine and then further fails to check that repair and then finds a vibration so serious they would strip the whole transmission... in the hope of seeing something obvious to repair as you put it!
The fact that you have perceived them as almost grovelling and noticed they called you sir shows just how craftily they have gained the upper hand in this transaction.
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Im not sure I would prefer them to wash their hands of it which is the alternative to grovelling. It may be your preference, but its not mine.
I think its certain that their PDI test drive wasnt thorough, but thats quite normal Im afraid, was when I worked in a service department.
How they react to it to make up lost ground with the customer is as telling as their original mistakes.
I have firsthand experience of what this kind of situation is like from their side of the desk and I would bet a considerable sum that somebody was hauled in an office and asked how such a situation ever happened ( seen that ) and that they are very focussed on making sure it doesnt become a protracted saga, hence they are going full bore and replacing anything they can think of.
Theres nothing worse than knowing theres something wrong, not being able to pinpoint it, its a professional embarrisment.
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>> hence they are going full bore and replacing anything they can think of.
>> Theres nothing worse than knowing theres something wrong, not being able to pinpoint it,
Pity Screwloose isn't here, he'd have some choice descripitive comments about the lack of diagnostic skills in workshops.
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Oh ive seen it myself. In a workshop of 7 we had only two guys id let near my own cars.
Three were 'juniors' who could barely change the oil and tick the boxes on a PDI sheet.
Then we had two what can only be described as eccentrics, the sort of guys then when you saw them with a spanner, you hope beyond all hope that it wasnt anything complicated - wtaching them using the laptops was comical.
Then we had a Rover fanatic and a guy with an engineering background, both of which were superb at what they did. We also had a foreman with 35 years experience who never failed to sort things.
I suspect I got one of the lesser guys first time around, but there is usually a couple of guys on the payrole that can sort anything and I expect they will be doing the job this time around.
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Thats reassuring then :>)
Ate you still in a position to renegotiate or walk away?
As always
Mark
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Not really, its a cheap 6 year old used car. I think they are doing what they can to resolve the problem and I am happy they are attempting to meet there obligations having heard so many stories of dealers fobbing off customers with much newer, higher value cars than mine.
I think the idea that whenever a car has a problem, you reject it out of hand is a little childish, especially as its not costing me anything. Had there been a refusal to repair it, I would certainly have requested some sort of financial resolution but that hasnt been required.
I know the concept of gearbox work sounds bad because its a major component, but in bald terms, its a fault and there is a resolution for that fault, just like there is for a clicking pedal. So long as its resolved in a satisfactory way, its largely irrelevant what the problem was.
Cars arent like human beings. When people go wrong, it can often be part of a larger problem, but cars are made of components and you simply remove the bad ones and put good ones back in.
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Easily. They share no components. One was developed alongside Vauxhall, they are different cars, only the badge is the same.
Im afraid there are very few cars which dont have problems of one sort or another when they are a few years old, a quick thumb through the CBC and owner reviews reveals just what a lottery cars are.
Pick any small car and you will find someone who has had issue with one, so its just a case of what set of chances you fancy taking.
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So to be clear
Yoy were shown the replaced parts as advised
Yes or No?
As always
Mark
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No, Ive asked to see them this time though, they had already been discarded previously, but since they cured the whine, Ive no reason to think they didnt do something the first time around.
The feeling is this is another issue as the 5th gear whine was a chipped tooth.
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>> The feeling is this is another issue ...
Mug then. The car could be a lemon.
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This thread (and others) reminds me why I own a boring Almera ... boringly reliable, boringly fault free after 4 years of ownership, no knocks, squeaks or 'Rattles' and I've owned over 40 cars in my time + driven many more when 'in the trade' but I still chose the Almera.
Sorry to hear about your car Stu, as if there isn't enough ag in life these days!
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Well, thats the thing. On paper, a Wagon R should be boringly reliable, these models have a reputation for it, so it is simply one of those things.
Had I bought a 1.2 Corsa, you could reasonably expected it to fall to bits such is its reputation although thats true of most cars now, even alot of jap cars have become a bit patchy ( except the wifes Daihatsu which has been great ).
The difference of course between this and my old banger exploits is that its not costing me a penny, so while its a bit of a phaff driving this horrid 207, I still have transport and as such, Im not the least bit bothered by the situation.
Maybe because ive worked in a service dept reception and dealt with this kind of thing from the other side, Im perhaps more understanding that sometimes these things just happen as in a team it only takes one fool to make you all look foolish.
The number of times id drop a car off to a customer and something hadnt been done, or there was a 'no fault found' despite the customer being certain there was something wrong which subsequently turned out to be the case - it isnt anything personal, the salesman didnt 'see me coming', he is a mechaincal idiot so wouldnt know he was selling a duffer. The workshop made an oversight on test drive and its likely that had they sold it to an old granny who went to the shops a few times a week, this would never have been an issue.
Unfortunatly, they sold it to me which is likely as much their misfortune as it is mine.
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>>>The difference of course between this and my old banger exploits is that its not costing me a penny.
Actually not true... you paid 5-7 times the amount you've paid for you past few bangers so you could get away from reliability issues. If you really wanted this hassle you'd have bought another £500 special.
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I didnt buy a car really, I bought a warranty, the car is a bonus. Thats how I look at it.
What I paid out money for was so that the hassle was someone elses and I was well aware that any problems I discovered with the car should be sorted soon after delivery, so made it my business to make a through assessment the day of purchase by driving it 150 miles.
If id bought this Pug it would have been back in aswell. You would have to sell a pretty perfect car to get it past me and I wasnt expecting perfection for a little over 3 grand.
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You will be banned from all garages south of Nottingham and east of Bristol if you're not careful!
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>> I didnt buy a car really, I bought a warranty, the car is a bonus.
>>
re. warranty, since you bought the car knowing it had a fault, presumable that removes your legal consumer protection rights and you are left with just the dealer provided warranty. When is that due to expire?
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No I didnt know of this current fault until after I collected the car. It had a few issues before purchase which were conditions of sale that they were rectified, but this current issue wasnt one of them.
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>> I didnt buy a car really, I bought a warranty, the car is a bonus.
That really is a very silly statement.
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I was being flippant. Lighten up ya miserable so and so.
I know it brings you great pleasure to pour scorn on other people, but really, I dont care anywhere near as much as I pretend, so if you cant say something constructive or even helpful, go polish your barbed wire collection or something.
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You think that was scorn?
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Your whole online persona is based upon it. Its at times amusing, but your idea that when someones down, you should kick them a bit more gets boring over time.
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to be honest you do open up the garden path for it
i really wish i could sell a 54 plate wagon r for 3.2 big ones thats obviously a nail and just see if the customer brings it back
i really cant and couldnt understand why they didnt source a s/h box in the first place and be done with the thing
lets be honest someone came up with a peach of a link to show these boxes inherrant weaknesses and i advised you to treat them with kid gloves whilst driving it
no offence but i think you love having problems with your motors because if my cars that i sold had the same amount of problems someone would have strung me up from a lampost before now,im sure
:-)
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Stu despite the huge pile of ammo you provide, I really haven't kicked you, even a little bit when you are down. Some of your attitudes and ideas about car buying are verging on the bizarre, I merely stand on the side, wide eyed with bewilderment.
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There's a bloke we can't stand any longer
Always on the bleedin' moan.
Every time we mend his [swearword] Suzuki,
He starts groaning on the phone.
First, we fixed his car's ignition,
Checked his brakes and clutch and then-
Overhauled his whole transmission.
He just brought it back again.
Chorus: Wilberstuforce31, Wilberstuforce31
He can stick it up his bum....up his bum.
He can [swearword] off 'till kingdom come.
Sorry, I have just had that song in my head all day and night and it is driving me mad. I think clearly Stu's car is in need of some repairs and I can understand him rightly wanted it all fixed. No cars are perfect though and you need to draw the line some where.
If this was car car though I would be going in and out of the dealer until they fixed too.
I think the only amusing element in all this is the amount of cars Stu has gone through. Believe me I had all the slack when I anounced the head gasket had gone on my Corsa, quite a few people were amused that I had bought yet another lemon but you have to take the slack with a bit of fun.
God knows we went camping once in my mates 13 year old Fiesta, we kicked a football at it and it was so rusty we made a 15" hole in the bodywork, he saw the funny side, but we kicked the ball at it to joke that it is made of rusty, we did not expect the car to actually fall apart.
Stu take the jokes and slack as if it was your mates and don't take it personaly, I am sure Zero dosn't mean to be offensive and is actually joking in a way that mates do.
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Bizarre?
I buy old cars, thats wrong, I buy the newest car that meets my needs, thats wrong too because I have another stroke of bad luck, I get the most unhelpful suggestions about buying cars which come with a catalogue of known faults, presumably in the hope I have yet more motoring woes. There really isnt anything I could do that would reduce the ammo other than stop trying to contribute to the forum which I did consider, but I try to be an optimist.
Had I bought a Ford or a Vauxhall and it had gone wrong, the reaction would be the same, I dont think it has much to do with my car choices, but people latch onto that because its easy.
Bellboy - ive not been able to find any reference to gearbox problems with the post-2000 Wagon R which is an entirely different car from the previous 97-00 model which had known gearbox issues. Ive not found any reference to the Agila having such problems either.
I dont think throwing in an unknown S/H box is going to make things better is it, its just asking for more trouble. Id far rather they look at the ones thats in it and work out whats wrong. They seem fairly sure its one of the bearings but wont know which without having a physical look, which makes perfect sense to me.
Ive had a year of stupidly bad luck and I wish id not sold the Charade if Im honest, but theres no sense dwelling on that now, its long gone.
Oh and Zero, I bought from a main dealer because they give the best warranty or atleast this one did. Cant say Im regretting that at this stage given the value Im extracting out of it. Had I bought from a smaller ealer ive no oubt they woul have just laughed and shut the door.
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But if you had bought it on the private market I am sure you would have paid £1k less for it, so it is swings and round abouts. Yes you get a much better warranty this way but you're paying for it. You could argue at least you're using the warranty so you're certainly not out of pocket by buying it from a dealer.
If this car is fixed properly and it gives you 5-6 years service then for the money you have got a bargain.
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Indeed Rattle.
I may have paid £1k more than private, but thats already got me a new C/L solenoid, new battery, new tyre, front tyres balanced, new wheel bearing, new 5th gear, a valet and a new MOT. Then with this new work being done, well, the warranty aspect will certainly pay for itself.
I dont regret buying from a main dealer one bit although Im disappointed about the car.
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theres plenty of gearboxes about for these cars as a lot of them are written of by old people and the insurers find parts are too dear to warrant repairing
most of them ultra low mileages too
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Im sure they are doing what they think they need to in order to repair the car and Im sure if they put a different box in, they would have to strip that down aswell just to be sure it was OK and to cover themselves, so I can see why they are doing it the way they are.
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>>go polish your barbed wire collection or something.
>>
Or clear out your hallway.
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why? whats in my hallway?
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Zero, you could atleast run a hoover over that.
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Hold on, thats not even my registration number.
I admit I have one of those cordless drills, its a £14:99 Homebase one.
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>> Mug then. The car could be a lemon.
>>
Nah, he is not a mug. He is a serial car killer.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=4865&m=106625&v=e
:-) When the sellers see Stu, they think
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVvcD4Czx4Y
>> You would have to sell a pretty perfect car to get it past me
>>
You can say that again. Your record of car buying speaks volumes in that respect! ;-)
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Its been a run of bad luck of late, Im resigned to it really. I used to own old cars and never have such problems, but then those were cars that were old in the late 90's so somewhat simpler. I did toy with the idea of a restored 'classic' at one point.
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You mean a Relient Kitten.
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I was thinking more along the lines of a Volvo 121 est or a Minor.
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You don't actually think a minor would be reliable do you? Simple and easy to mend yes but you would spend half your time cleaning out the carb and adjusting the points.
Oh and they all hide terrible gearbox whines.
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>> you would spend half your time cleaning out the carb and adjusting the points<<
When was the last time you adjusted the points and cleaned out the carb on a Morris Minor, I wonder.
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Think a Volvo 300 series with the same sort of provenance as mine, and then you're on to something.
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Maybe, although id have looked for an estate. Still, Im saving up for a brand new car now, I want to cure myself of the draw towards old knackers :-)
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My wife made me do that about 10 years ago. Gave up the old knackers and bought nearly new or brand new.
We now both have old knackers (02 and 03 plate cars). As well as my ancient knacker, the D-reg 360.
Make of that what you will.......
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I did it when I was 18 as I was running a terribly unreliable Renault and the idea of a fixed cost of £240 a month to include purchase, servicing and warranty for 3 years made the Matiz irresistable. It enabled me to save nearly £10k over 2.5 years from my wages. Then I got married...
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My motoring fun continues :-) - MD
