How do you do it?
I don't mind doing it occasionally with the 7er - easy jacking points front and rear, 2 lifts and it's up. It's 4 lifts with the golf and I don't like lift number 4 because diagonally opposite is in the air off it's axle stand until the last corner is lifted.
I think I've just clicked the error in my ways, I was lifting rear, both sides, then front. I think I should lift one full side then the other.
It's rare I do it but sometimes it's more convenient.
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For security i prefer to put 2 wheels on ramps and then jack the other end up both sides together till level, for things like brake bleeding choose which end has the most accessible bleed valves for the ramp end.
Really don't like the whole car suspended on stands if i'm going underneath.
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Always have two in the air and two on the ground.
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i would never put 4 in the air with a view to going under
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Aye I don't go under it but for brake bleeding, setting the ride height on the BM, stripping out and cleaning under the wheel arches etc. etc. But I hear what youre saying.
Probably shy away from this approach now.
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I found the real centre of gravity on the Jowett. I used to put a stout piece of wood across the chassis and put the two ton trolley jack in the centre. I could then jack it up.
Usually, 3 wheels would come up, only a few inches were required. You could then lift the other corner easily and gently turn the car as if on a turntable.
Did this a few times in the garage here rather than move all the other cars, push it up the drive and then back the other way to turn it. Drive it now though.
Try not to do any underneath wotk on moderns now, but if one needs pads or something easy, I do one wheel at a time and put an axle stand somewhere strong. I still leave it on the jack, though. The ramps are handy for an oil/filter change. They save a bit of bending back pain too.
Ted
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A colleague who had a young family was killed when a car slipped off a jack and crushed his head. This incident is brought to mind whenever I jack up a car so I am probably more careful than most people. I will definitely not risk my life on a cheaply made manufacturers pressed steel jack or a hydraulic jack "O" seal. I always ensure that at least two wheels are on the ground and there is something solid supporting the car in addition to the jack before putting anything that I am attached to under the car.
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My granddad was a mechanic until a truck axle dropped on him when he was under it. Don't know exactly what happened but my dad said he 'made a mistake' and never physically recovered. He bought a corner shop in Gorton after that, so I believe and that's where my dad met my mum. Over two ounces of Cola Cubes probably.
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I knew you were the result of an accident.
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It depends what you are using for a jack and what you are using for stands.
Trolley jacks are in my opinion dangerous once the vehicle is on stands rather than the remaining wheels because they do not lift vertically. The plate moves an inch or two as it lifts, and this pulls the car and can topple it off an axle stand. Bottle jacks lift vertically.
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I use pieces of timber or spare wheels to rest the car on, either under the actual car wheels, or with two pieces of timber going from side to side under the car, resting on wheels and/or further pieces of timber. Blocks under the car where needed so that it rests on solid parts, e.g. jacking points. The whole thing is given a good shove to check it's solid.
I would work under a car supported only on axle stands.
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...I would work under a car supported only on axle stands...
Me too, not quite the same, but a Jag replica racer we built started life as a chassis supported on four stands.
Raising a car onto four stands using a jack might be tricky, and I've never done it.
But once the car is on the stands, I don't see a problem with working under it.
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working under a car on jacks that has a box chassis may well be safe ish
working under a modern car that was designed to only be jacked up in certain places and via rubber blocks is miles away from 4 axle stands that probably have a surface area of an inch between car in air and car on floor
utter madness
consider pulling an exhaust off
a gearbox off
and thats before the ground you are jacking on has been checked for sub structure strength (here at work there is a patch of concrete and its 1 inch thick only, with rubbish underneath it,how did i find this out? when it all cracked lifted and turned to mush 3 weeks ago after the coldest spell in my living memory)
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...working under a modern car that was designed to only be jacked up in certain places and via rubber blocks is miles away...
Point taken.
There's an awful lot about modern cars I don't understand.
The ground surface point is a good one.
Last edited by: Iffy on Mon 31 Jan 11 at 12:56
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>> modern car that was designed to only be jacked up in certain places and via rubber blocks
Which is another gripe i have. The 7er has big meaty subframes with tons of options, reinforced jacking points on the body etc. etc.
The Golf has not much:
- 4x pinch weld points on the sills (not great but spreading the load with wood i've had no problems so far)
- 2 reinforced points under the body at the front on "chassis rails"
- Trailing beam suspension (can't jack the middle in case you bend it though)
The octavia is even worse, still has the 4 pinch welds but not much else. Independent rear suspension with nothing other than directly under the spring seats suitable. At the front it's pinch welds with no "chassis rails", thankfully there's a wee bit of subframe either side.
At this rate you'll be stuffed without a 2 post lift in a couple of years.
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Of course, I meand "would not work under a car supported only by axle stands". Triping plobrems.
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>> I would work under a car supported only on axle stands.
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I wouldn't.
[Edit - sorry, FT, just seen your post above mine after I replied to your first one!]
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 1 Feb 11 at 00:30
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The only safe rule surely is never work under a car that would collapse if any one of its points of support gave way.
So I would jack up a car and lower it onto a pile of blocks of wood, or an axle stand, but would leave the jack in place as a safeguard.
I would never trust just an axle stand, but would put wood blocks under as well.
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blocks of wood can tip
so i assume you mean as belt and braces to the stands
i always drop the jack so the stand takes the weight but always leave the jack in situ
and i dont mean a trolley jack with a cup the size of a small pork pie either (just had one yummy)
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You still need to support the car on something if you are taking the wheels off. A pit just makes it easier to get underneath.
By blocks of wood I mean a stack of bits of railway sleeper, arranged alternately.
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>> I recommend a pit.
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Definitely.
I would never go under a jacked car.
Dad had a pit built in his garage - not that difficult - and apart from the increased safety you could roll the car back and forth if necessary. Ideal for changing exhausts. Not bad for storing wine ;-)
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I second a pit as the best way of working, but are they now deemed not safe - 'helf and safety' due to the problem of heavy gases collecting in them?
It still does not stop me, but when you end up with 2 gallons of petrol in the bottom and lots of fumes it focuses the mind!
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www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9804
Has the edit feature disappeared? or am I getting slower?
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thanks for the link pmh.
Most comments about fumes collecting in a pit assume it's uncovered all the time..
If it's covered, they cannot get in.
And only fools leave a pit incovered with no car on top... an uncovered pit IS a safety hazard...
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You need space for a pit though, if i had space i'd already have a 2 poster installed long ago :-) Just about fit a bottle of wine in my "garage".
Last edited by: Skoda on Mon 31 Jan 11 at 16:30
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Space for a pit? No. It fits nicely into our middle garage..
You need space for the covers when you are using a pit...
A gentleman buys a house with enough land and a proper garage and space for a wine cellar, (and an ensuite mistress if required).
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drive the rear up on to railway sleeper . then place ramps in front, and small wooden ramp in front of rear wheels and drive up. you now have car 8 inches off ground. works for me.
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Not just turn the car upside down on its roof and work from the top?
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>> Not just turn the car upside down on its roof and work from the top?
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Not as daft as it sounds.
At one time we'd put a strong rope or strap round the B pillar, throw over the roof and attach to a decent car, then pull the car over to the point of balance or slightly beyond...car tyres, inflated truck inner tubes and old mattresses could be used for full onside working.
Not suggesting anyone attempts this now but it worked well enough at the time.
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When I had last to change the clutch on a rear wheel drive car I jacked up the car in stages so I could eventually get each wheel on a concrete block about 9 inches high. Similar to the timber sleeper idea mentioned above.
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate on Mon 31 Jan 11 at 22:17
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The tilting it on it's side idea is something that caught my eye before
www.cjautos.site90.net/nbnHD.html
I just struggle to imagine a big 7er on one of those jigs but if it were possible that'd be ace.
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I tipped a bubble car onto its side on a mattress to underseal it (took the battery out first).
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See if you had one of these: www.cjautos.site90.net/3in1.html
Where would you position the support pads? Would you just lift by the floorpan? Would a car take that without bending the floorpan?
If you lined that up with the sills, you'd just crush them i'm sure.
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>> See if you had one of these: www.cjautos.site90.net/3in1.html
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>> Where would you position the support pads?
Under the sills ~ that's what the last two franchised dealers have done with my Focus and it caused no damage. The rubber pads had a groove in the them so that the pads straddled the vertical seam.
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I have seen KF using a similar non tilting lift.
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I've got an MOT for the Golf tomorrow morning at a small outfit down the road from me. Going to have a gas about lifts. I doubt their insurance would allow hiring the use of a lift on per hour basis to Joe Punter (me) but will see what's what.
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... I doubt their insurance would allow hiring the use of a lift on per hour basis to Joe Punter (me) but will see what's what...
There are a handful of 'self-service' garages which offer this facility.
www.pitstartgarage.com/
It's in west London, might be a bit far to take the 7 Series, what with the price of petrol.
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im sure if you are on good terms with them and can show sensible best practice they might put it up for you to have a mess under on say a sat morning
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Jacking up all 4 corners - -
