A campaign has been launched today to install the world's biggest and most comprehensive complex road pricing scheme covering all of Cambridgeshire. Who knows if it will happen - we're still waiting for the guided bus to open (now years late and no date set yet).
There's a link here:
www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/Pay-as-you-drive-scheme-proposed.htm
Snippets:
The tariff would be highly variable, based not just on distance but also on the time of travel, the route used, carbon emissions, and the availability or otherwise of a viable alternative to driving.
Total annual revenue could total £120 million...[it] would be the first of its type in the world.
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So why hasnt the guided bus opened?
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Bit like a guided missile eh Zero ?
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How long have you got?
Short story - council won't accept it as they say it has defects, like leaking viaducts, cycle path floods, car park has no drainage. Bam Nuttal say it's to spec. Council is withholding thousands of pounds per day as a penalty - we're way past original opening date. All going to court. Who knows who will win. More millions in legal expenses to come. No date yet...
Bit of a complete disaster so far. Original cost projected to be 80 million odd. Now up to 160 million and rising...
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>> How long have you got?
>>
>> Short story - council won't accept it as they say it has defects, like leaking
>> viaducts, cycle path floods, car park has no drainage. Bam Nuttal say it's to spec.......
And they could have just re-opened the old St Ives railway for a fraction of the cost????
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why do you need to guide a bus? I thought a driver did that? Couldnt they have just built a road?
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Children children. A cheap light railway over the existing track that was there? A road? My word, how very unimaginative and sensible.
No, a guided bus it had to be, because at peak the projection is that there will be a 4% reduction in traffic on the A14 at rush hours, which is obviously worth 160 million of anybody's money.
Fiasco would be kind.
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Isn't there a type of guided bus lane in Leeds?
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>> Isn't there a type of guided bus lane in Leeds?
They're putting something of that sort in along Kirkstall Rd. Not sure what/how/when but they were working on it when I was last there in late November.
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>> Isn't there a type of guided bus lane in Leeds?
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There's one in Nottingham. The locals call it a tram.
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...The locals call it a tram...
Very droll.
The one in Leeds is used by an ordinary service bus which is guided for the length of the special lane.
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This could only happen in Cambridgeshire, or possibly somewhere in the USA.
It's the predictable outcome of having one of the world's great seats of learning in a county populated by people who knit their own sandals and whose second cousins are identical twins.
So how do they charge visitors? Or perhaps they don't want any! ;-)
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Is a mere blip compared to the £600million+ being wasted on a limited tram service for Edinburgh.
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>> The one in Leeds is used by an ordinary service bus which is guided for
>> the length of the special lane.
I think that's the point; the USP over trams.
They work in guided format but can then become 'ordinary' buses and go off piste.
EDIT. The Leeds ones seem to use the guideway as a shortcut through congested junctions:
www.leeds.gov.uk/page.aspx?pageidentifier=B87A58A52B06F5EE80256E1400521B09
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 17 Jan 11 at 22:39
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But why do you need to guide a bus? Are Cambridge bus drivers so stupid they cant be relied upon to stay awake?
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 18 Jan 11 at 00:17
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The bus can travel faster and in a norrower lane, also the high kerbs mean that other vehicles are less likley to use the designated lane.
Eerie when you are stood beside the driver at 30mph and he takes his hands off the wheel just before a bend.
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...www.leeds.gov.uk/page.aspx?pageidentifier=B87A58A52B06F5EE80256E1400521B09...
Thanks, Bromptonaut.
The lanes can be seen in the middle of the A64 York Road, not far from the centre of Leeds.
My links to Google Maps rarely work, but anyone interested can look up the A64 near its junctions with Highways or Killingbeck Drive.
Either satellite or street view shows the guided lanes between the two dual carriageways.
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They're talking about a guided bus route from Luton to Dunstable, along the line of an old railway track.
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The guided busway already looks like a past relic where you cross it... not something for the future. This Cambs road charging idea is a personal soapbox issue by someone with enough money and free time to indulge their whims on the wider public.
If it comes in I might have to start using the bike more... damn fallen into the trap... that's what she wants.
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the talking has stopped. the work is underway
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"Now up to 160 million and rising..."
Chicken feed compared to the fiasco in Edinburgh... "the tram system is now anticipated to cost over £600 million"..."Work on the project is currently on hold due to a dispute between the contractor and TIE the tram developer."
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Bet they'd wished they'd gone for Trolleybuses now! That's one thing I can't understand about this "need" to have trams... Trolleybuses are just as clean and more manoeuvrable as well... and cheaper to install!
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>> So why hasnt the guided bus opened?
>>
Rumour has it that each bus will be re-painted white, and a couple of tusks applied.....
tusk, tusk :-)
Last edited by: Old Sock on Mon 17 Jan 11 at 23:22
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Friends of mine live just 5 miles outside Cambridge. The city is so anti-car that they don't spend any of their disposable income in Cambridge. Far nicer to trundle the 20-odd miles down the A14 where Bury St. Edmunds welcomes them with a new shopping centre and no parking hassles...
So Cambridge loses out, as does the anti-car brigade! Muppet council...
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It's certainly true that it's no pleasure to use the car for city centre shopping. It's not so hard to use the park and ride though, which is cheaper than most city parking anyway, and cheaper and quicker than driving to and parking in Bury I should think.
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It 's true Cambridge is anti-car but there are practical reasons for this. The city centre is just so full of old streets with few places to park apart from the main multi-storey the place would be gridlock if cars were encouraged. I've been driving (and for work where I needed access to every street) there since you go right into the centre and park outside all the shops if there wasn't a warden about.
Having defended it a little I have to say we only go there to shop a couple of times a year (it's about 25mls from us) but do end up at the Corn Exchange right in the centre for concerts several times a year so contribute to the massive parking charges in the Grand Arcade.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 18 Jan 11 at 07:54
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>> contribute to the massive parking charges in the Grand Arcade.
Which are of course, just about to go up again. For the benefit of the non-Cambridge readership, this is justified on the grounds that as the car park is full to bursting there is clearly demand and the market will bear more.
I wonder if the road toll would entitle you to free parking...
The only thing the guided bus is good for is cycling on. As however the adjacent cycle track varies from excellent to unusable in the space of a pedal beat, lots of people cycle actually on the busway itself. Fine, if a bit tricky as it's narrow, as there aren't any buses. One day there will be a behemoth travelling at 55mph and you're on a bike with nowhere to go fast...
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>>The city centre is just so full of old streets with few places to park apart from the main >>multi-storey the place would be gridlock if cars were encouraged
That doesn't wash! Cambridge is scarcely different to hundreds of other historical British towns, most of which do a better job of accommodating car-borne visitors with wallets.
And who really sees the point of park and ride - with all the faffing around waiting for buses. Although I concede that it's a reasonable solution.
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I have to say I actually don't grumble too much about the gand arcade parking charge as it makes it more likely you'll find a space at the times I go... if it was £2/day you'd never get in there.
I sort of know what you mean Nick about the old city centre not being a good excuse for it being anti-car. However I've been involved with street utilities in local towns/cites and the nature of the streets, the property ages/design and the control by college authorities makes it a very difficult place to alter.
Agree re park and ride... I'll go to my death bed without ever using it.
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The link road from the M11 J13 to Addenbrookes is open now relieving a lot of congestion but they've had to install cameras at each end to stop commuters using it as a short cut.
Pat
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How does that work pda? How can a legal taxed insured vehicle be barred from using a public road or is there some "Access to Addenbrookes only" signage?
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I'm not sure to be honest, we were so shocked at it being open that we didn't really notice signs on the approach as we were confused about which area of the complex it would lead us to.
Apparently the two cameras are timed and that's how they work out if you are a visitor or not.
Pat
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>> More information
Not much more!!
Will taxis using the road to access the hospital get clobbered with a fine if they're in and out within 15 minutes? What about parcel and post office vans? Buses?
At least with it being Cambridge they could simply exempt all the vehicles carrying a city centre dongle on the front, I suppose.
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The deal is that it's supposed to be used for access to Addenbrookes only. We've had to use it (unfortunately) over the last few weeks, and it's excellent for that.
There's numberplate recognition at the entrance and exit at each end, and if you go in and out too quick then they write to you and ask you to justify it (as a private car). If you have a good excuse they let you off, apparently, but in general, you get a £30 quid fine. Things like taxis and post office vans I guess have their reg on the database of exemptions.
It all sounds a bit cackhanded and weird, but the local media isn't awash with complaints, and there are lots of positive comments about there being less traffic elsewhere in the City as hospital traffic is syphoned off now, so it does seem to be working.
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It works well and certainly cuts time off the journey to go to Addenbrookes, it's just strange trying to get your bearings the first time.
Pat
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>> just strange trying to get your bearings the first time.
That's what satnav is for!
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We spent a lot of hours looking out of ward D9 windows watching it being built a couple of years ago and still forgot it was there. I spent a lot of time walking up to the 9th floor too because I don't like lifts!
Pat
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Sorry to hear about your D9 Pat. We're doing D6 at the minute.
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Likewise Crankcase, got your drift.
Hope it goes well for you.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Tue 18 Jan 11 at 16:27
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Here is my take on the likely outcome. The scheme, including the IT, will be put out to tender and there will be some skullduggery whereby the people who tender lowest won't get the contract. It will then come in 3 years late, way over budget and, if it works at all, the costs of running and enforcement will exceed the income and it will be abandoned.
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Grief, I hadn't realised the guided busway hadn't opened. I last crossed it near Swavesey in October ish and assumed it must be working.
I think Cambridge is quite different from most other "similar" English towns in that:
1. It is particularly difficult to drive up its narrow streets
2. The river is a particularly awkward obstacle
3. The population is enormous relative to its size, student accommodation is very high density
4. The town has grown so much over the last twenty years.
5. There is a huge level of tourists, and we all know tourists just drive around getting lost.
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>> I think Cambridge is quite different from most other "similar" English towns in that:
6. The university colleges have a stranglehold over much of the land - and their pompous, self-important, up-their-own-backsides attitude precludes any 'joined-up' planning.
Levelling King's College, and erecting a large multi-storey car park in its stead, would be a good starting point.....
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You don't really need to take anything down. The aerial view of the city centre shows a lot of undeveloped green space very close to the centre. Not saying I want it done but there is a lot of space not seen as you drive the streets but soon revealed with a bird's eye view.
tinyurl.com/6jz3m8k link shrunk to restore correct page width
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 19 Jan 11 at 12:51
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This seems just another one of those mad-councillor schemes. I bet that:
1. The councillor doesn't own a car.
2. Lives within walking distance of the city centre.
3. Has absolutely no appreciation for the many diverse routes that people take in their journeys, and absolutely no idea how this would be catered for by public transport (which is the aim of the scheme).
4. Doesn't realise quite how many buses will end up running around empty, or at best half empty, and how their emissions would exceed the cars they have displaced.
5. Doesn't realise that the best way to reduce emissions is to have low-emission cars. The car is too ingrained in our national psyche to be virtually removed overnight by one councillor's hair-brained scheme.
Sleep easy, Cambridge. It won't happen.
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Cambridgeshire - thin end of the toll road wedge? - Zero
