I know we have been here before, with sub-standard dealers, but a recent experience bears repeating.
We are thinking of buying a 7-seat car to replace my E-class estate as, although probably the biggest estate around, it still feels cramped compared to a modern 7-seater, and there are times when I need more than 5 seats for the kids.
We need a diesel auto with good economy which leads us to a new Sharan DSG or S-Max/Galaxy with Powershift.
So I'm at a Ford dealer talking S-Max/Galaxy. I asked how different they were on the road, given that they are both based on a Mondeo. "Oh no, sir. The S-Max is based on the Mondeo, but the Galaxy is completely different, sir. It has it's own platform altogether, sir." Yeah, right! Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Still he gives me a brochure and price list to peruse at my leisure.
When I get home, I relaise that he has given me the dealer price list with red 'CONFIDENTIAL' stamped all over it. This gives the retail price, together with the dealers net price, margin, etc. for all models and the options. Priceless!
It never ceases to amaze me how manufacturers spend £billions on developing cars, and leave the selling in the hands of such incompetents!
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he has given me the dealer price list
>> with red 'CONFIDENTIAL' stamped all over it. This gives the retail price, together with the
>> dealers net price, margin, etc. for all models and the options. Priceless!
What you should do now, is post these prices on the net for everyone to see. interesting to see the sales they would get if you did.
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except he could be prosecuted for so doing.
What he should do now is to take the document to the dealer, and insist on his new car at cost in return of the document.
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>> except he could be prosecuted for so doing.
True, it was only meant in jest.
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That's pretty dodgy, too.
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...and insist on his new car at cost in return of the document...
Now he really could be prosecuted for that, it's called blackmail.
The word 'confidential' written on the original document is meaningless for all practical purposes.
I cannot think of any offence committed by publishing it, since he came by it lawfully, albeit by a mistake.
Last edited by: Iffy on Mon 17 Jan 11 at 12:47
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...What you should do now, is post these prices on the net for everyone to see...
Dealer discount was a straight 17.5 per cent off the basic price when I was in the trade.
That didn't take into account any incentive plans, although there were not many of those around 30 years ago.
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>> Dealer discount was a straight 17.5 per cent off the basic price when I was
>> in the trade.
>>
>> That didn't take into account any incentive plans,
>>
Yes, the list shows about 20% margin, but of course there are bigger bonuses for hitting certain sales targets. Lower margins on options, but they are still there (contrary to what dealers will have you believe).
But yes, I am tempted to go back to the dealer and ask him to supply the car "as per the price list he gave me"
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Actually 20% doesn't seem that huge a margin compared with other areas of retail especially since they do normally rebate part of it to the customer. I always thought they made more.
I think electronics retailers typically make around 25% and clothing must be at least 40%
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When I worked at the Renault dealer in the 1980s were only made a few hundred on each car.
As I posted earlier, gross margin 17.5 per cent of basic price, and nearly every sale was done at a discount of about half that.
No kick-backs in those days.
Very occasionally a customer would negotiate so hard we would back out of the deal, not often, but it did happen.
We often made better money on used cars, and the management realised new sales was a necessary part of a proper dealership.
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>> When I get home, I relaise that he has given me the dealer price list
>> with red 'CONFIDENTIAL' stamped all over it. This gives the retail price, together with the
>> dealers net price, margin, etc. for all models and the options.
Send it to "wikileaks".
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>> Send it to "wikileaks".
>>
seconded.
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Perhaps it's a double bluff, to make you think you're getting a good deal...they've probably got the real cost prices somewhere else ;-)
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>> Perhaps it's a double bluff, to make you think you're getting a good deal...they've probably
>> got the real cost prices somewhere else ;-)
Exactly the conclusion the natural cynic in me jumped to as well. :-)
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a bit like putting a cross on an old bit of parchment when in fact you just want some fool to dig over the land prior to you putting turnips in
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For what it's worth I have no problem with businesses making a fair trading profit, in fact I want them to. In turn their employees get paid and spend their money on the goods and services which lead to the rest of us getting paid.
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And they stay in business thus allowing us to shop locally.
John
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>> For what it's worth I have no problem with businesses making a fair trading profit,
>> in fact I want them to. In turn their employees get paid and spend their
>> money on the goods and services which lead to the rest of us getting paid.
>>
>>
I agree. However, you do find anti-business anti-capitalist sentiment on this forum.
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...you do find anti-business anti-capitalist sentiment on this forum...
Which is surprising in that many on here are retired and are depending entirely on the success of business to pay their pension.
And many on here are believers in capitalism in the broadest sense, in that they support the individual's right to acquire property, material things and money.
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Perhaps if dealers made a reasonable profit selling cars, they wouldn't need to charge three figure hourly labour rates in their service departments.
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>> Perhaps if dealers made a reasonable profit selling cars, they wouldn't need to charge three
>> figure hourly labour rates in their service departments.
>>
The three figure labour rates are needed to keep their glass palaces and workshops to "NASA space industry" clinically clean standards. ;-)
Seriously though, new workshops do look like surgical operating theatres.
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>> ...you do find anti-business anti-capitalist sentiment on this forum...
>>
>> Which is surprising in that many on here are retired and are depending entirely on
>> the success of business to pay their pension.
>>
>> And many on here are believers in capitalism in the broadest sense, in that they
>> support the individual's right to acquire property, material things and money.
>>
>>
Keep making a profit to pay your taxes and my pension. Ignore the loony lefties. :-)
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>> >> Perhaps it's a double bluff, to make you think you're getting a good deal...they've
>> probably
>> >> got the real cost prices somewhere else ;-)
>>
>> Exactly the conclusion the natural cynic in me jumped to as well. :-)
>>
...and me!
At the playgroup my wife helps at they got a box of supposedly unused computer paper for the kids to paint on and it has Fords entire spare parts list on it, including cost prices and margin. The margin on most parts is IMMENSE!
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You will be betraying secrets but only some puffed up dealership - it's not like selling state secrets to the Russians - they can't prosecute you.
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Incompetent dealers - Redviper
