My son got stopped the other evening as he was slowly turning his MB SLK into an urban side street.
Lots of BiB in a van were coming towards him and stopped him. It was all very friendly but.
The conversation was " too smart ***** " and proved quite interesting.
You have front fog on so the rears should be on. Where is the fog etc.
The facts are that both front and rear fog lights were not left on and had NOT been selected.
What I think had happened was that the fog light had been auto switched on to illuminate the corner and that is what they saw.
( I am guessing that as son straightened the wheel it auto switched off. BiB may have interpereted that as son realising he had seen them he switched fog off)
They said It would have been a fixed penalty notice.
I guess legally he is guilty of having a fog light on but would he have any defense ?
It was obviously a freak meeting so he is not expecting further problems
We will check out the situation.
Do other makes use dim beams to to follow the kerbs?
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They are legal as they are Type Approved for EU sale. My 07 Roomie had these and caused some raised eyebrows (as it raised its eyebrow in Roger Moore sort of way) I don't think the uk Con and Use has caught up yet. They are legal -BiB may not generally know about them.
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As stated above, they are legal under EC whole vehicle type approval (EC-WVTA) as they were factory fitted.
They're not fog lights, they're corning lamps. I *think* the MB ones have a different bulb in them for cornering than for fog.
My car doesn't have cornering lamps but the front fogs (sorry "ground lamps") do light up when it's dark and I lock or unlock the car. That's caused a few comments.
UK law is well behind. Xenon (HID) lamps aren't legal under UK law, hence you're on very dodgy ground if you retrofit them. Same with LED rear lamps and hazards that flash under heavy braking.
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Our Bravo has these cornering lights and Im pretty sure they are "just" the foglights, ie no extra bulbs. If I got stopped and issued with a fixed penalty I would certainly take it further. As stated, totally legal.
Xenons are ok to retrofit as long as you have a washing system and an autolevelling system either for the bulbs or the suspension of the car (which of course would make them unrealistic cost wise).
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PR
I wouldn't be too sure that they are legal? Cornering lights are an American idea and the C+U has very specific regulations concerning the use of any front-facing light mounted below 400mm. Far from being out-of-date, it's only too correct.
As foglights are uniquely vulnerable to being knocked askew, shine nearly parallel to the road and are hardly ever beamset - and do not fall into the MOT's purview - the risk of dazzle, at a safety-critical juncture, must be considerable.
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They've been Type Approved by the EU so de-facto legal. Roomsters are too pretty to be sold in the US
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PU
They may well be covered - as are OE HIDs - by EU TA regs.
However; even if such low-mounted lights - and all OE major lights be, 165w-equivalent, HID soon - are legal to sell; can they still be used only in conditions of fog or falling snow? I doubt that TA rules over-ride that.
Unlike 21w US corner-mounted lights fitted specifically for that purpose; a foglight is a foglight - regardless of when, or why, it's lit.
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If you have one of these cars that use low level lights for cornering lights then you cannot switch it off. Some Mercedes also use other bulbs to compensate if a main bulb were to fail too.
I cannot see how the use of fogs lights in this way is much help. I can see the benefit of active headlights that move the main beam as you turn the wheel.
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Awful things that should be banned.
why? because they can dazzle.
I was driving along a main road approaching a y-junction where the turning on my left was angled towards me, the car was wishing to turn right, ie to travel the way I had come from, he had the wheels turned ready, and the 'cornering light' was reflecting of the wet road (it was raining) and caused major glare.
normal headlamps have never done that, not even xenons, and I use the stretch of road often.
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Isnt it time for the construction and use regs to be dumped in the bin? Everything is covered under EEC type regualtions. The only differences we need should reflect the fact we drive on the wrong side of the road.
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Misuse of front and rear fogs is one thing (let's not go there), but this does sound like one of those occasions involving the BiB when the polite phrase that comes to mind is: "is this really the best you can find to do?"
My front fogs double as automatic "see you home" lights - is that a fixed penalty offence too? Give us a break!
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>> Xenons are ok to retrofit as long as you have a washing system and an
>> autolevelling system either for the bulbs or the suspension of the car (which of course
>> would make them unrealistic cost wise).
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Halogen headlight beam pattern is different to Xenon so unless you change the headlight unit the beam pattern will be different.
If your headlight is ECE 98 and "e-marked" then it is OK. A halogen headlight unit will not be marked in this way.
www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 17 Mar 10 at 17:13
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>> Our Bravo has these cornering lights and Im pretty sure they are "just" the foglights
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Yup. Only comment I've had with ours is "think you've a bulb out" by a chap at work, who was quite impressed that my 'umble Italian motor had such a feature.
If the Law ever wanted a word, I'd dig out the handbook and show them.
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The trouble with this EU type approval business, is that even we as car nerds have trouble keeping up with what is and isn't allowed.
Add to that the complexity when mixed with seemingly contradictory local laws, and it's no wonder plod gets confused.
I would expect traffic cops to know better, but these sounded like regular plod to me?
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And also brings us to the question - what are the point of these lights and has anyone who has them ever thought, thank God they came on or I wouldn't have seen that!!
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>> I wouldn't be too sure that they are legal?
This, like the Xenon/HID issue has been argued over at great length in many forums.
It seems that, strictly speaking all of these "funny" lighting systems are illegal in the UK by virtue of the fact that they are not specifically mentioned in the relevant UK legislation. Lamps, I think, have to be filament lamps, so that make HID and LED illegal by default.
However you can't be (successfully) prosecuted because the EC type approval over-rides UK law in this area.
But that type approval only applies as the car leaves the factory. It is understood that you can't retrospectively fit things, such as HID's, even if they were fitted to the same standard (and they never are - no-one fits the washing and self levelling that is required).
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>> And also brings us to the question - what are the point of these lights
>>
I'd have thought that too BG, but when they come on in a gloomy compound and they illuminate the ground just as the wheel on a tight lock is about to cross it the extra visibility is surprising, especially good with large 4x4's even white ones..;)
It wouldn't be deal breaker for me but i could live with them.
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The Hazards on the new Colt flash under heavy braking or so the manual says. Are these illegal then??
MD
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In the UK, yes.
Everyone knows flashing hazard lights mean I know I'm illegally parked but I'm just poping out for my morning paper :)
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There is a device that you can buy to fit to some Vauxhalls so that it uses the front fog lights as cornering lights. It also has other features too. I don't think I'll be purchasing it though.
www.happylightshow.de/English/english.htm
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>> Lots of BiB in a van
>> obviously a freak meeting
When the new-shape Transit vans were first being used by the BiB (approx. 2001) as riot vans, I pulled straight across a mini-roundabout in front of one approaching from my right because it had its sidelights on. On the minibus version of the Tranny, the indicator repeater light mounted in the triangular door mirror housing (by the word "Transit") is used as a permanently-lit side marker light. In a quick glance across the roundabout I mistook it for a left-turn signal in mid-flash and kept going...
(I've tried, and failed, to persuade Google Images to give me a decent picture of the side light in question, but I hope I've described it well enough.)
When the driver stopped me to question my behaviour, I explained this to him at some length. We both went away a little wiser, me to the lighting layout peculiar to Transit minibuses and him to the increased likelihood of Joe Public reacting to his non-existant indicator.
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Wed 17 Mar 10 at 19:51
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Easy mistake to make Dave and we've all done it, i've been opposed to these amber side markers on vans and trucks since their introduction, in fact kept my old red/white lenses as long as i could.
On the old stuff you'd have side marker lights of two coloured plastic lenses, obviously clear and red, and if the vehicle had side repeater indicators these were obviously orange, no mistakes to be made, no flickering bulbs or passing strips of sunlight to confuse.
Some idiot decided it would be a good idea to mix the two up.
The side makers on my transporter trailer are long orange leds doubling as side reflectors, at each end of one of them there is a small side indicator repeater led, which in bright sunlight or rain spray can barely be seen, somebody passed these things as being better than a good old 21w bulb piercing away through a 2mm thin non reflective orange lens.
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Thanks GB. My particular problem was that I'd already seen plenty of Transits with the indicator repeaters in the same housing, it's a particularly stupid piece of design to alter the purpose of the lights only on certain body styles.
The only lorries I've seen with indicator repeaters all the way down the sides are Widdowsons ones from near here, no matter where in the country I've been I've never spotted them on any other fleet. They stand out on a crisp, dark night when the wagons are clean, but of course the sides of trailers never stay clean for very long!
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I have these cornering lamps on the new C5... just the fixed ones not the steering types. 30yrs ago I had a DS with the true steering main beams and they were brilliant. Complicated yes but I always wondered why no-one else tried the system.
The C5 cornering lamps switch on and off at about 20deg on the steering wheel. They are not just a foglamp but have a long side reflector that makes them shine way out sideways.
Yes we have managed without them on the majority of cars for the majority of our lives but they are a brilliant addition to safety in town streets, car parks and turning into drives etc.
One thing I do wonder is what on earth folks make of it as they meet you taking a mini roundabout with one side lamp then the other flicking on then off. I've not yet met a car in the dark with them.
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>> what on earth folks make of it as they meet you
The first one I saw made me think "Ooh, that's one of the new-shape C-classes. And haha, one of his foglight bulbs has blown already. What a nincompoop using them on a clear night anyway. Typical Merc driver. Typical Merc build quality."
One of my friends has them on his FIAT Bravo, my 10-year old made all of the above comments to me as the FIAT reversed off my drive one night. Cue lots of explaining, but I still don't think she "gets" them. I'll have them on a car in about 10 years I guess.
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Wed 17 Mar 10 at 22:45
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>> They said It would have been a fixed penalty notice.
>>
>> I guess legally he is guilty of having a fog light on but would he
>> have any defense ?
>>
>> It was obviously a freak meeting so he is not expecting further problems
>> We will check out the situation.
>> Do other makes use dim beams to to follow the kerbs?
>>
>>
It used to be that a single front fog was OK as long as both headlights were illuminated; nothing to do with rear fogs. It's this premise that makes cornering foglights legal. I think the BIB on this occasion were completely wrong.
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>>It used to be that a single front fog was OK as long as both headlights were illuminated.
Yes; IIRC there wasn't even the need to have the headlamps illuminated if a pair were correctly fitted [13" max from the ouside of the vehicle?] - but, as now, low-mounted lamps could only be used in "fog or falling snow."
Hence my previous point; this is not a cornering light; it's a Type-Approved foglight being used other than in the above conditions.
Just at the moment a driver emerging from a junction is looking to his right for cyclists and motor-bikes; the last thing he needs is a badly set, possibly HID, foglamp suddenly coming on and blazing into his eyes.
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Foglights. A legal question re cornering option. - R.P.
