I had a closer look at the sills today as I washed it off yesterday. It seems the advisory note was right from the last MOT.
There is a section on the drivers sill which I put my screwdriver through. Its not a huge section, but it will need a small amount of welding to get an MOT:
i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/stunorthants/Wally%20the%20Wagon/SDC10424.jpg
So, the rest of the driver sill has quite alot of surface rust aswell and Im not sure whether I should rub the whole sill down now and treat the bits which dont need welding, leaving the section which is already too far gone or should I just leave it until its been welded in June and make the whole lot tidy then?
Also, ive obviously made a hole as you can see in the piccy - will leaving it make a whole lot of difference or should I bung some filler in it to plug the hole till June?
The passenger side sill has a few bits of surface rust, buts its very minor, which is strange as its usually that side which is worse.
Any tips on how to refinish the sills? Im hovering between a rub down, Kurust and painting with Hammerite or giving it a good coating of Waxoyl atm.
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>> (snip URL)
That's too close to see what's going on - have you got a photo. or two taken from a little further away?
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I put one from a bit further away in the album, theres 4 in there altogether. They should all be public.
s234.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/stunorthants/Wally%20the%20Wagon/
Last edited by: stunorthants29 on Thu 6 Jan 11 at 14:08
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Ouch. There's quite extensive rust. A couple of snaps perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of symmetry of the vehicle, from about 3' away, covering the length of the sill, might be helpful - that, or get an idea from your local garage welder.
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From the limited visual information I would suspect that the inner skin maybe a problem as well. A patch will disguise it, and satisfy a cursory MOT inspection but there could be significant loss of structural integrity.
I suspect that a significant of rusty metal will need to be cut away.
Just seen the new photos. Accident damage in the past?
Last edited by: pmh on Thu 6 Jan 11 at 14:11
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No, I think it was carelessly jacked up. I had the same thing happen on a Matiz when some young tool in their workshop didnt use the jacking point. Paint is original.
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Crikey, I'd forgotten what a rusty sill looks like! I don't remember dealing with this sort of thing since my Alfasud days.
:)
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Well, ive been along the sill and theres solid metal under all of it aside from the soft bit ive already found. Im estimating from what ive found that it needs a plate maybe 2x8 ins to latch onto good metal all round.
It looks worse than it is I think. I did wonder if it would be more sensible to simply have the whole sill replaced, but Im not sure of the cost. The plate would only be about £50-60 and that would get an MOT. With my car history, I wonder if a new sill would be overkill given that ill prob change it in 18 months time ( although I may not ).
I did wonder if, while the sill has a hole in it, whether there was a rust converter that comes with a spray nozzle which I could flood the sill with? I usually paint it on but if theres rust inside, id like to get to that while I have the chance.
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Now - all the crap off the roads will get in through that hole and add to its problems.
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>>ill prob change it in 18 months time
Yeah right. I give it until March!
Bit like your worry that the exhaust will only last a few years lol.
On 30th December at 18.31 you posted "Pre-MOT not done at MOT station btw. Its a general term for an all over check, mainly because there was an advisory from the last MOT for corrosion on the sills, but having seen it on the ramp, neither of us could find anything other than very minor surface corrosion on the leading edge of the sills, nothing a rub down and paint wont sort."
If that was the same pre-MOT where you thought you didn't need the brake fluid changing, then I'd get that changed...
P.S. I hadn't realised you'd bought a new car. Beats me how I missed it....
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I dont think he looked too hard tbh. I didnt either :-)
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...The plate would only be about £50-60...
Would a new sill be a lot more?
I think this is one problem which does need sorting, despite the age and value of the car.
Japanese cars rust faster than most once the tin worm takes hold.
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>>Would a new sill be a lot more?<<
I think its upwards of £100 just for the part, so likely approaching £200 with labour etc.
Ive added two more pics from further away.
Last edited by: stunorthants29 on Thu 6 Jan 11 at 14:43
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"Japanese cars rust faster than most once the tin worm takes hold."
Not if galvanised
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The two new pics are of the front end of the sill and the back end. The back end is much less affected, just needs a rub down really. The passenger side is much better still.
So, is it worth the bother of doing anything now or just wait till it gets welded?
Im looking at the pic of the back end of the sill thinking I could do that in isolation as the rust isnt joined to the front bit, so maybe that would be worth doing.
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>> It looks worse than it is I think.
IME it is invariably worse than it looks.
>> I did wonder if it would be more sensible to simply have the whole sill replaced
If it's worth it, do it and get rid of it (MOT'd) ASAP. The sill will be about £30, at a guess, to weld it on similar to your "patch".
Look at the other side, too, and inside the wheelarches, and under the doors.
>> I did wonder if, while the sill has a hole in it, whether there was
>> a rust converter that comes with a spray nozzle which I could flood the sill
>> with? I usually paint it on but if theres rust inside, id like to get
>> to that while I have the chance.
I wouldn't bother with that. If it's "gone", it's gone.
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Ive had a look about, wheelarches are solid inside, floor is fine, only seems to be the sill on drivers side.
I aint gonna flog it, ive had more than a sill replaced due to rust in the past. Had a Sierra. Now they really rust. Floor, two new sills, wheelarches, bulkhead....
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Don't mention relatively recent Fords iffy - they rusted - badly.
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Iffy's contribution was way up there ^.
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...Don't mention relatively recent Fords iffy - they rusted - badly...
I didn't, because I understood we were talking about a Suzuki.
But if you must, everyone tells me early Kas rust, although Humph's didn't.
There's still a quite a few Escorts and a lot of early Fiestas hobbling along somehow.
Perhaps all their owners spend thousands on bodywork repairs.
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I had an R-reg Escort Saloon which needed about £150 worth of welding on its chassis rails for an MOT. When I was in the garage the other day, theres was a Ka having quite extensive welding for an MOT, he said it was normal on the early ones.
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>Any tips on how to refinish the sills? Im hovering between a rub down, Kurust and painting > with Hammerite or giving it a good coating of Waxoyl atm.
Right now, at this moment in time, this weekend I would get that lot wirebrushed and rubbed away to good metal, some dinitrol sprayed into the holes to cover the inside, and then painted.
That way you have time before now and the MOT to see if it gets worse. If it does - weld on a new sil, if it dont weld in a patch.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 6 Jan 11 at 14:57
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What about the hole? Im just thinking, if I wirebrush it too hard, I may end up with a bigger hole than I already have.
Think I will do the rest of the sill though as you say, bit cold to paint though, may have to get the car in the garage as the bottoms of the sills are damp.
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>>if I wirebrush it too hard, I may end up with a bigger hole than I already have.
If wirebrushing makes the hole bigger, then all you're removing is rust.
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If you can wirebrush your car away you shouldn't be driving it.
There was a thread about deathtrap old cars a week or three ago. This is one.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 6 Jan 11 at 15:14
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True, but if I make a 6 inch gash in the sill, I wont really be able to leave that until the MOT as water will gush in and make it rust alot quicker and in other places.
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>> True, but if I make a 6 inch gash in the sill, I wont really
>> be able to leave that until the MOT as water will gush in and make
>> it rust alot quicker and in other places.
Just fill the hole in with some isopon p40 and paint over the whole sill. Then deal with it properly by getting it welded later, and treat it with waxoyl when it's warm and dry.
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>> What about the hole? Im just thinking, if I wirebrush it too hard, I may
>> end up with a bigger hole than I already have.
You need to know how bad it is, and if its getting worse. Getting rid of the current rust is the only way.
Wire brush all the rust away, if the holes gets bigger then fill it. Then paint it.
You need to do it soon - you need as much time as possible to see how bad it gets. And at this stage you need to know how bad it is.
Dont wait. you aint doing a perfect paint job on it, that comes later.
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What you want now is a quick and easy bodge. Weather is too cold/wet/horrible to do proper job.
You need to stop water getting in and doing more damage. All the rest is irrelevant.
Quick fibreglass job over it all... no brushing rust or anything. Just a quick cover up of all holes.. and cover in one paint layer so it does not look too bad.. (underseal will do).
Then in spring, tear it off and examine at leisure..
Used to do it often.. Now drive a galvanised car...:-)
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That is as bad as the rust on the Fiesta, cost £100 to have it welded properly. That was 5 months ago still seems ok.
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"and he will surely appear"
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That will have a MUCH bigger hole in it when you have cleaned it up, and getting it back to thick enough metal will need a bigger patch than that. It's holed, it's going to need welding, might as well get it done now before it gets too much worse. Plate over it, then underseal the whole sill (what we had done on our Picasso last year). Should last a couple of years.
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I thought about it and decided to bite the bullet and get it welded sooner rather than later, so it sbooked in next week to have it done.
He has been along the sill and while you could get away with a small plate, he reckoned most of the front half of the sill was on the way, so he is going to weld a plate nearly 2 ft long, covering all the dodgy looking metal and it will be about 3 ins wide, so that it cant be seen from above. Its prob overkill, but means it wont need looking at again for some time.
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bit.ly/hdiYeN
Then get rid of it.
However, in view of previous comments, I forecast a rattle-esque saga of disaster.
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Haha, Im not so sure, I bought well under my budget for a replacement car knowing id have to spend money on something or other.
So far its had a service, a new tyre ( due to age ) and now this welding. Its driving better and better because its being used and the economy is improving alot.
It only did 36 mpg pre-service. Just filled it up (£45!!) and its now up to 40 mpg despite my uncharacteristically enthusiastic driving style of late, so ive now resolved to slow it down a tad and stop redlining it :-)
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FT>> However, in view of previous comments, I forecast a rattle-esque saga of disaster.
>>
Nah. A saga of running cheap cars expensively and entertaining us in the process. This thread's funny.
Just get the brake fluid changed, Stu, together with the alternator belt - safety issues. Changing the coolant was a waste of money on a car that you'll have scrapped by March, it's not a safety point.
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Not changing the coolant lead to the demise of my last car. For the sake of £30, its no waste. And since when was an alternator belt a safety issue... I mean, I know if it snaps the battery will run down, but aside from being irritating, whos it going to injure?
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Not so.
Failing to change the coolant in 2005 led to the demise of your last car. Too late to put any such damage right. You'll be shot of this car when the daffodils have died.
Failing to change the brake fluid today might cause the car to die tomorrow. And you with it.
Failed alternator belt on a motorway, you can carry on driving the car but the lights will dim and you will push on and then be hit by another car.
The brake fluid will be £20, the belt a tenner - they'd be no waste; the coolant was a waste. You say you need a new belt, I do not understand the mentality that runs the risk of being stranded for a mere tenner. If nothing else, buy and carry a spare.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 6 Jan 11 at 19:28
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Why 2005? What happened back then that I dont know about?
I dont dispute the brake fluid, its going to be done in Feb when I have the money spare - was going to be sooner but that money is going on the sills instead.
Ive had a failed alternator before, it doesnt happen straight away and you get plenty of time to pull over even with lights on. I may buy a belt though, just incase. When did I say it needed a new belt?
My intention was to change it at the next service because I dont know how old it is and as you say, they are cheap, but ive no idea how old it is and its not causing any problems right now, not even a squeak, so Im not sure why theres any urgency.
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Stu I hope you have calculated the monthly amount you have spent each month on all this cars including losses during the sale.
Now I am sure part of it is because like me you look for problems which prevents break downs but I have learnt that if you have an old banger sometimes you just have to treat it like that.
I kept having this sort of jobs done on my Corsa and I spent around £80 a month on odd repairs, it repayed me when the head gasket went. I thought by having all the work done I would have a reliable car for the next five years.
However my dad went through this phase with the Fiesta and we nearly ended up scrapping it, last year we have only spent £200 on it including the MOT. It is due an oil change now though and the tyres are getting on a bit that happens with any car.
I jsut can't do it anymore though, Stu with the amount of time you have spent on this car you could have spent it on trying to build up your business.
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I know, there is a point of saying enough is enough, but whenever ive bought an old car, there are always a few things that need doing and like you say, I like a reliable car.
I dont know how long ill keep this car. I just have no idea and I dont want to predict.
I expect, if it gets to a whole year, then it may be one Im hanging onto, I tend to keep cars if I have them at the one year mark.
Ive spent £190 on it so far, with another £90 to go. That should get me as far as the MOT ( brake fluid change aside ). I could have spent that on just about any car I bought and I had a budget of £300 for service and repairs in my car buying budget, so Im just about on the money atm, hence the lack of panic. I know from experience that few old cars are perfect, so assume they wont be and budget accordingly.
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jm with FT on the fit a new sill cover
its a waste of time splodging bits of plates on to hide holes
get your man to fit the full cover because this way he will be able to put strength on the upper and lower parts of the sill and in the unfortunate chance you have a crash you have a better chance of the car not crumpling like a used cig packet
personally if i had viewed the car prior to purchase i would have capped the lot in with my boots and walked away or run away if the vender saw me................
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Reminds me of that Nissan Almeras. I went to see. It was a 98S advertised as being as new condition. It was £850 with 80k on the clock and FSH so it seemed a good buy.
I went to have a look at it and discovered I could have put a netbook through the holes in the sill it was that bad. I said to the trader the advert described the car as being in very good condition not made out of rust. His reply was what did I expect for £850. I said to be as described in the advert. I thretened him with ASA.
That trader wasted two hours of my time. A day later I noticed the wording on the add had been described as average condition, which it should have said in the first place as holes in the sill is average for those Almeras.
I really wish I had done what Bellboy suggested and kick the sill in with my foot. The worst thing about it was the 12 month 'MOT'.
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Suzuki Wagon R+ - Rust, fix now, fix later? - FotheringtonTomas
