My dad got woken up this morning by the local farmer cutting the grass verges at the side of a field (non road side). Later on he then trims the woods situated at the side of his house. Loose material was spread all over their gravel drive - we're talking large twigs, branches of Hawthorn and other pointy bits. Debris was even thrown over his parked car and the roof of the house. It was a right mess.
Two weeks ago the same farmer cut the hedgerows along the lane leaving the road strewn with thorns and debris. My 6 year old son got a puncture the first time he ventured out on his new bike thanks to a thorn!
My dad has been on to the county highways people who say the farmer is obliged to keep the highway free from obstructions but didnt make it clear if this includes organic matter. he also rang the NFU but was told they have no legal powers to enforce against the farmer even if he is a member of NFU.
Whilst I accept a farmer has a job to do, it seems ridiculous there appears to be no action can be taken when debris is left on a public highway which would cause damage.
My dad made a valid point when he said 'if a car driver chucks a banana skin out of a car window, he can be prosecuted, yet a farmer can leave a trail of mess from hacking apart 3 miles of hedgerow and get away with not having to clear it up'.
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My advice (from experience) is never fall out with a Farmer - especially if his land adjoins yours.
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Unneighbourly behaviour is not the exclusive preserve of the town dweller.
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Agreed Dog. My dad is being careful what he says. He just can't believe this particular farmer seems so stupid and unaware of the effect his actions have on others.
In the 30 years or so of living where my parents do, they've seen many farmers come and go but one thing is constant; they've always seemed like unapproachable ignorant sphincters.
(and before any of you reply, yes I realise not all farmers are the same!)
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...they've seen many farmers come and go...
Sounds like rented acreage.
Just as a tenant is less inclined to look after the house he is renting, the tenanted farmer may be less inclined to look after the land he is renting.
Particularly if he knows he's not stopping long.
I imagine your parents may not have had the same problems if the neighbouring farm stayed in the hands of one family.
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I suppose you could always take a photo of all the mess and approach the Farmer but ...
approach him as you would a GSD, i.e. hands in your pockets, and DON'T look him in the eye :)
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>> I suppose you could always take a photo of all the mess and approach the
>> Farmer but ...
>> approach him as you would a GSD, i.e. hands in your pockets, and DON'T look
>> him in the eye :)
>>
A bit like the character called Ted from The Fast Show.
Tugging forelock loik, sur.
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>> Whilst I accept a farmer has a job to do, it seems ridiculous there appears
>> to be no action can be taken when debris is left on a public highway
>> which would cause damage.
I do not know how you come to that conclusion. It as an offence to leave debris from hedge-cutting on the road. You can take action if your tyres are punctured or you suffer other damage.
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So does anyone know what the Act is which makes it illegal?
Armed with that my dad would probably write a polite letter (assuming the farmer could read of course).
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Are the cows making a noise as well?
Nasty place the country, should be sorted out at once.
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Please, lets not let the thread degenerate into townies vs countrydwellers.
My parents are not anti-farmers or anti countryside. They merely want this particular farmer face up to his obligations. Afterall, what the farmer does is little different to you walking along the main road outside your house throwing handfuls of nails into the road.
I think most people and the law would take a dim view of that so should it not be the same with the farmer too?
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He could not cut the hedges? He could insist your parents cut it?
It is completely NOT like throwing nails in the road, thats a deliberate act of vandalism.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 23 Dec 10 at 13:37
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When we lived on the Bodmin Moor for 6.5 years, it was a common occurrence to see hedge cuttings on the lanes, of course if it had covered my car/drive/house etc. I wouldn't have been a happy bunny and would have had a word with the Farmer, most of whom I knew,
if I had got a puncture via the cuttings, I would have just swallowed it (gulp!)
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No disrepect meant to anyone but this is the problem with many people - they're happy to accept that what goes on in the countryside or anywhere else for that matter, should keep happening no matter what the consequences.
My dad has always been one to challenge this type of behaviour and speak up for himself and I have every respect for him in doing so.
Yes, the farmer has to cut his hedges (they belong to him, they're on his land)
Yes, they accept a puncture may occur every now and again
but having caused a mess, why shoudn't the farmer clear up.
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>> No disrepect meant to anyone but this is the problem with many people - they're
>> happy to accept that what goes on in the countryside or anywhere else for that
>> matter, should keep happening no matter what the consequences.
>> My dad has always been one to challenge this type of behaviour and speak up
>> for himself and I have every respect for him in doing so.
Was he born in the country?
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I thought the thread had degenerated as soon as I read this remark
>>(assuming the farmer could read of course)<<
Pat
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Highways Act 1980 part 9, 148/149 will be of interest to you. You can bill the farmer for damage caused to your tyres, and the LA can bill him for cleanup operations if they they involved.
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And you can pay for the increase in food prices due to farmers legal bills.
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Ask santa for a yard brush :-)
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This can have far reaching consequences. A friend of my daughter (and also a young mum) rolled her car and broke her back after skidding on mud left by a farmer going home in his tractor after ploughing. It was dark and the wet mud could not be seen.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 23 Dec 10 at 14:20
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When I was on the farm I think we received a complaint or two about leaving mud on the road.
My lot were reasonably responsible, but there was no way the tractor wheels were pressure washed each time it left the yard.
Two reasons - no time and no pressure washer. :)
As regards roadside hedge cutting, we used to do it from both sides, which left minimal mess.
No doubt some drivers resented the delay caused by the slow moving tractor as it did the road side of hedge.
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>> Ask santa for a yard brush :-)
>>
Or an even wider one.
;-)
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I was brought up in the country. Mud, cows and cow muck on the roads are normal everyday hazards.
And yes our local farmer cuts the hawthorn hedge and leaves a little (accent on little) mess on roads.
Better than the jobbing builders who in the past 15 years have left the following on the 1/2 mile of road above our house:
124 7cm long nails new (I picked them all up).
one set of electrical pliers
one toolbox (empty)
23 rivets for a rivet gun (one punctured a new front tyre)
two electrical screwdrivers
one cake baking tin
one adjustable spanner
one rusty hammer
one rusty shovel
and lots of other junk including wires, tacks,
Compared to that lot, a few sprigs of hawthorn are nothing..
But the horse riders drop horse carp everywhere.. and pick up nothing...
Last edited by: madf on Thu 23 Dec 10 at 15:12
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or the council contractors who leave "Road closed date - date" signs up after they've finished and other signs. But then I'm off onto councils and their "new road layout ahead" (so what?) signs that are still there 5 years later. But that's off thread so I'll shut up!
No real problems with farmers round here. Some mud on roads but how do you clean it off as you come out of a field? I suppose you can sweep it up when you're done but I reckon it's part of living here.
John
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>> Ask santa for a yard brush :-)
>>
A METRE brush pleeeese. We are European you know..::))
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>> A METRE brush pleeeese. We are European you know..::))
I'm NOT European - I'm English.
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>>
>>
>> >> A METRE brush pleeeese. We are European you know..::))
>>
>> I'm NOT European - I'm English.
>>
KILOGRAMS to you Landsker...::))
To be very honest my friend I totally agree with you and Brussels at al can stuff their legislation up their ruddy congas. Lbs/Ounces/Gallons/Pints (yes please) Miles/Feet/Inches/Yards/Furlongs/Rods etc. Driving on the left......Best Bitter/Roast Beef................................Sorry.....just having a personal moment. Must go and get that log in for the Missus.......Calm down Mart, calm down.....
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>> I do not know how you come to that conclusion. It as an offence to
>> leave debris from hedge-cutting on the road. You can take action if your tyres are
>> punctured or you suffer other damage.
>>
Completely correct. Farmer very liable.
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Here's a bit about the subject. 146.101.137.229/resources/Campaigns/10_Vegetation-Maintenance_brf.pdf
It appears to give authoratitive information, not just unsubstantiated personal opinion, hearsay or scuttlebutt.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Thu 23 Dec 10 at 15:31
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We lay great store here by scuttlebutt.
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...We lay great store here by scuttlebutt...
Quite so, its importance is exceeded only by personal opinion and hearsay.
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>> We lay great store here by scuttlebutt.
You are Lord Mandelson & I claim my £5.
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>> Two weeks ago the same farmer cut the hedgerows along the lane leaving the road
>> strewn with thorns and debris. My 6 year old son got a puncture the first
>> time he ventured out on his new bike thanks to a thorn!
Get some puncture proof tyres. They are de rigeur these days.
You should really take some photos and link them to here, because no one has any idea of how much debris you are talking about. You could have a genuine point, or it may all be a storm in a teacup.
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Careless inconsiderate farmers around us have been spreading grit along the country lanes, spoiling the lovely shiny ice and messing up the snow.
There are also reports of them pestering snow-bound vulnerable people and trying to make them buy vital supplies of food.
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I was going to reply to the OP but Zero and others have made a good job of it.
You could always move back to the town Clint, us thicko farmers would be much happier without you.
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>> www.ssqq.com/archive/vinlin27c.htm
Oh my God. Puts it into perspective doesn't it?
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Hee hee! I like the blond in the high heels, with the 370Z. She should report that mud to the council.
John
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Before you go ranting at the farmer, find out first if it was indeed him or a contractor working on his behalf. Not that it makes much difference legally, but as far as the debris on the car is concerned it might encourage both sides to communicate a bit better come next hedge-cutting time. Most farmers I know prefer to get on with their neighbours; unless of course they're related which seems to lead to a peculiar type of trench warfare down in Wales! ;-)
I don't much like mechanical hedge flails myself; quite apart from the debris they leave, it's not a particularly good way to make a hedge grow well. Unfortunately, as has been mentioned above, time and money come into the equation; a properly laid hedge is a joy to behold, but it's also a very time-consuming and expensive process.
I can appreciate the OP's annoyance with the debris going over the car, but does he really expect the farmer to a) knock on his door and forewarn him, and then b) walk round with a yard-brush and sweep up afterwards?
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I imagine if the farmer cared about the issue, they would do something about it.
If it causes actual damage to a car say, then by all means persue the matter legally, but otherwise, I think it will cause more harm than good making a fuss, even if morally, there is a point to be made.
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'And you can pay for the increase in food prices due to farmers legal bills. '
Get a grip Zero - you're already paying handsomely for farmer's lifestyles.
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Yeah but I don't want to give them an excuse.
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- you're already paying handsomely for farmer's lifestyles.
Try doing it before you diss it.
Whilst a lot of the big arable farmers might live the high life, most of the beef, sheep and dairy farms round here are struggling to survive. They're also more in need of secretaries than farm hands due to the mountain of frequently conflicting paperwork they have to administer.
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Pleading poverty with a Range Rover in the shed. :-)
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Sheep farmer I know locally has a RangeRover Sport. If thats hard times...
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And the payments to go with it.
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>> Sheep farmer I know locally has a RangeRover Sport. If thats hard times...
In wales they call it a running a brothel....
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Amazing, isn't it Harleyman, how people can knock farmers when their bellies are full.
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It's not knocking farmers, its gentle ribbing. The farmers I know seem to be running reasonably successful businesses, with new equipment, (tractors etc), every few years.
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Hey, Im not knocking farmers. If you can afford a Range Rover by farming sheep, good luck to them, but nobody goes out spending £50k on a swanky car if they really are experiencing hard times.
Thats not to say others arent, but its working for some people. Theres a fair bit of sheep farming over this way and it seems to pay its way.
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Farmers! summed up so well by John Crisp back in the seventies - love the Norfolk accent!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25Eq1-YTnE
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The farmers I know seem to be running
>> reasonably successful businesses, with new equipment, (tractors etc), every few years.
>>
Has it ever crossed your mind that they might just need them?
Like any business, farming is dependent upon reliable efficient machinery, which tends to wear out when it gets used. It also makes sense to invest any profits in upgrading that machinery rather than sending it all to the Chancellor.
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>> Has it ever crossed your mind that they might just need them?
>>
A Range Rover "Sport"?! I can really see that as suitable for the mucky work on a farm!
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>> Amazing, isn't it Harleyman, how people can knock farmers when their bellies are full.
I was discussing this very subject with one of my customers recently; a hard-bitten 80-year-old who still runs a 70-acre hill farm almost single-handed. And drives a beat-up Land-Rover.
His opinion was that one of the biggest problems in this country (and most of Europe, for that matter) was that the population have forgotten what it is to be hungry. Even in the worst days of rationing during the last war, the British didn't starve; in fact it's arguable that we were better fed then.
There is, I admit, much to find fault with in modern agriculture. People would moan a helluva lot more if it didn't exist.
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Most of the big bright expensive coloured farm kit you see these days is leased.
Certainly come harvest time teams are hired complete with Harvesters costing hundreds of thousands of pounds to do the fields, often working with lights well past midnight
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I don't think people are saying farmers shouldn't make food. The op said should they leave hedge cuttings all over the road.
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'Whilst a lot of the big arable farmers might live the high life, most of the beef, sheep and dairy farms round here are struggling to survive. They're also more in need of secretaries than farm hands due to the mountain of frequently conflicting paperwork they have to administer.'
...in order to ensure they get the maximum EU cash available.
Do you remember the poor farmer on TV in the foot and mouth 'crisis', sat around his huge fully loaded breakfast table with four children, almost crying into his toast at the death of his beloved cows. He didn't look to be doing too badly and he was going to slaughter them anyway! Do you also remember the prosecutions arising from illegal movement of cows to make false compensation claims? I spent my years 12-20 working on a farm, socialised with the young farmers and still live rurally now. One of my friends is a farmer and it's very pleasant having free access to the heated swimming pool in the walled garden or sipping single malt in the £250k Oak library extension.
Farming is a busy from which to make money, just like every other business (Oh, apart from the subsidies!) If small farms can't make it work, well that's just business. If a small shop or any other business can't make it work then the proprietor might have to do something else. Why do we have a special sympathy for a farmer? Some outdated notion that he's doing us a favour making our food out of the goodness of his heart?
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>>Why do we have a special sympathy for a
>> farmer? Some outdated notion that he's doing us a favour making our food out of
>> the goodness of his heart?
I don't have a special sympathy for the farmer. It just makes me laugh when the only thing the OP has to worry about is a few twigs on the road. OK farmer, you better stop ploughing that field for next years harvest, matey down the road has a few twigs on his patio, you know, the one overlooking all that horrible open farmland. Get that witches broom pronto, and I don't want you to stop until it's squeaky clean.
Why doesn't he try moving to a housing estate, and exchange a few thorns for some beercans and crisp bags slung over the wall. It's like some of the houseowners in our area ringing up the council and complaining about the bits of grass on the entrance of their drive where the verges have been cut. People used to clean the areas outside their houses. Too damn lazy now.
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I honestly wonder why anyone bothers to voice an opinion on this site when it almost always breaks down into tabloidesque jibes, none of which has any bearing on the original post. (I do make an apology however for the reference to the farmer not being able to read but this was aimed at this particular farmer and not all farmers in general).
I have already stated it was not an anti farmer post and not all farmers are the same. Some actually give a . I have also never mentioned farmers and food production so how that subject managed to get woven into some replies is beyond me.
Bottom line is farmers do have a legal responsibility under the Highways act (I have since discovered) and should have machinery in a condition which does not fling thorns and other debris into the lane or over other road users. A neighbour of my dads has since suffered a puncture on his car and is looking at £200 replacement if it can't be repaired. Another neighbour is in a wheelchair and if he gets a puncture he will be stuffed. If a farmer is irresponsible, he is liable. I am not interested if he drives a £50k car, grows my cornflakes or puts milk on my table. He is a business and a private individual and like any business or person, should be governed by the same laws and act responsibly. This one clearly doesn't.
Merry Xmas
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Tis the season of goodwill after all.
Pat
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>> I honestly wonder why anyone bothers to voice an opinion on this site
You have to understand, your opinion is not the only one.
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I agree with you Corax but I also agree with Themanwithnoname. There has been some thread drift here (Isn't there always?) but my point is that farmers are not a special case and deserve no special treatment. Whether the OP should expect to have the problem dealt with, or live with it because he's in the country, is the nub of the debate. I can see both points.
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No different really to the cry to raise £££ when a fishing boat goes down. Same don't apply when a Bricklayer dies cos a scaffolding has collapsed. What's the ruddy difference??
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From my experience of country life (born there, family still live there, one's still a farmer), i'd snap a farmer's hand off if he voluntarily cut the hedges..I certainly wouldn't be moaning about it.
When the hedges get too unruly they cause havoc with the paint on a nice car... and seriously restrict your view, safety wise.
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why doesnt he move to a nice house near heathrow airport so he can complain all day about the noise?
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After reading all the posts, I do have sympathy with the OP... The key is that the farmer has a responsibility under the Rules of this country when doing such work, and as the OP has said its already caused damage to other peoples' vehicles...
Just because the guy is a farmer doesn't give him special dispensation to avoid responsibility for his actions, and suggesting the OP moves home or trying (vainly) to compare the OP's scenario with another, non related, scenario is simply a red herring.
If the farmer cuts the hedges in that way then he should be prepared to clean up after him, or pay out if the cuttings cause damage to others' property. End of.
BTW I'm sure his insurance would pay out...
Last edited by: hobby on Sat 25 Dec 10 at 09:30
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Highways Act 1980 Sect 148.
Penalty for depositing things or pitching booths etc. on highway.If, without lawful authority or excuse—
(a)
a person deposits on a made-up carriageway any dung, compost or other material for dressing land, or any rubbish, or
(b)
a person deposits on any highway that consists of or comprises a made-up carriageway any dung, compost or other material for dressing land, or any rubbish, within 15 feet from the centre of that carriageway, or
(c)
a person deposits any thing whatsoever on a highway to the interruption of any user of the highway, or
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he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding £1000
Sect 149.
Removal of things so deposited on highways as to be a nuisance etc.— (1) If any thing is so deposited on a highway as to constitute a nuisance, the highway authority for the highway may by notice require the person who deposited it there to remove it forthwith and if he fails to comply with the notice the authority may make a complaint to a magistrates’ court for a removal and disposal order under this section.
(2) If the highway authority for any highway have reasonable grounds for considering—
(a)
that any thing unlawfully deposited on the highway constitutes a danger (including a danger caused by obstructing the view) to users of the highway, and
(b)
that the thing in question ought to be removed without the delay involved in giving notice or obtaining a removal and disposal order from a magistrates’ court under this section,
the authority may remove the thing forthwith.
(3) The highway authority by whom a thing is removed in pursuance of subsection (2) above may either—
(a)
recover from the person by whom it was deposited on the highway, or from any person claiming to be entitled to it, any expenses reasonably incurred by the authority in removing it
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Farmers' obligations - Dog
