Keeping aside the winter tyre issue for the time being, the way mercury falling all over the country I wonder when the car will be undrivable for reason other than traction.
When will windscreen washer freeze?
When engine oil will freeze or lose their lubricating property?
When auto transmission oil will freeze or loose their property?
At what temp. doors will jam?
At what point slush on mudguard will prevent car from being steered?
Anything else?
Remember, this year we are on the limiting condition!
PS: I understand that cars in Russia or Canada or Scandinavia are driven at temp upto -40 C or so but probably they have set up for those hostile weather.
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I have friends in Alaska. They use oil thats thinner at lower temperature, standard petrol.
However the big difference is that nearly every car as a mains plug in engine heater, the car is left warming all night.
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Last year we had -19C. The car (Yaris d4d) - in an unheated garage - started first time and drove normally.
It was only -10C last night so I would not worry..
I drove in -25C in Germany - no problems..
I suspect under -30C most cars don't have strong enough antifreeze and event neat windscreen washer fluid freezes then..
I am running a 1:1 mix on Halfords washer fluid/water and it's OK at -10C. At -19C it froze on the screen as I recall.
Cars outside left to freeze when damp? Door seals may be torn apart when you open them due to ice...
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Ordinary cars can run at impossibly low temperatures - remember the advert for the Morris Minor that had been put in a deep freeze and started first time?
If it gets really cold:
Drain engine oil after use and keep indoors in a pan. Heat it up on the stove and pour back in just before starting.
Chisel frozen slush from wheel arches
Use neat antifreeze in radiator
Abandon windscreen and put head out of window
Keep battery fully charged or it will freeze. That would be the ultimate stopper for a petrol engine. A traditional diesel engine does not need any electrics once it is started.
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A brand new fleet of trucks had a lot of breakdowns (40% of fleet) at -8 with fuel freezing in the ridiculously exposed filter/sediment bowl placed ideally;) behind the fuel tank at the outside, though these were UK spec instead of European (that economy isn't going to pay off), they are all going to be altered.
Most modern cars should be alright down to -15 or 20, might be Diesel waxing problems on some though.
It's neglected or poor servicing that will be the stopper though, weak anti freeze mix, moisture in neglected Diesel filters, cheap batteries never given a top up charge etc.
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>> When will windscreen washer freeze?
Depends on the mix.
>> When engine oil will freeze or lose their lubricating property?
Depends on the oil.
>> When auto transmission oil will freeze or loose their property?
Depends on the oil.
>> At what temp. doors will jam?
Depends if you've treated the seals first.
>> At what point slush on mudguard will prevent car from being steered?
Never, in my experience - the friction/movement of the tyre prevents this from being a problem.
>> Anything else?
Vehicles used in extreme temperatures have engine block heaters that prevent the engine from getting too cold when parked or are stored in heated garages. Prevention is better than cure.
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>> Depends if you've treated the seals first.
How to do that?
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Silicon spray. You need to get rid of any water, and the spray does that perfectly
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>> >> Depends if you've treated the seals first.
>>
>> How to do that?
>>
Buy them some fish.
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Just brushed the snow off the CC3 in preparation for breaking cover later.
Cold, but dry, so wipers not frozen to the windscreen and door seals OK.
Us tin-top convertible drivers have to be a bit wary of the door seals in this weather because the side windows drop 1cm automatically as you open the door.
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Yeah, the windows in my old fords used to drop too.
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I believe the early BMW mini's dropped their windows an inch or so at random, even if "off" and unattended. One day after a year a collegue realised she had had the car in for repair every 2 weeks from new, binned it and bought a Focus.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 20 Dec 10 at 12:05
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I have driven at - 28c in Finland, the conditions here are quite similar but for the odd 20 - 25 deg, once it is below zero conditions change very little as it gets colder until things like antifreeze freeze.
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Finnish diesel is good for temperatures lower than our winter diesel, which should be OK to -15. That will be the limiting factor for diesels without filter heaters, (mine has one).
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 20 Dec 10 at 12:12
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Winter spec diesel cold filter plug point is only -12°C so if left outside for a day or two at -15 and not driven you won't be able to start your modern diesel - happened to our friends 10 days ago, and our PIcasso HDi was pretty reluctant at -10 when it hadn't been drive for a few days.
Now using Comma x-stream screenwash which, undiluted, goes down to -65°C. At about 25% it was still liquid at -9°C indicated last week. Smells horrible though, and costs a fortune!
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The Fiesta took an age to start this morning, it was -12c at the time but probably colder over night. He will be doing about 15 miles in it today. Would it be worth taking the battery out and charging it over night?
Mind you the charger is in a -12c shed :(.
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Local garages are selling a diesel additive called AdBlue. I guess this is some sort of anti-waxing stuff?
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>> Local garages are selling a diesel additive called AdBlue.
Don't put that in the fuel tank, it's pigs p and goes into separate tanks on many newer trucks and gets squirted into the exhaust to make it all fluffy like a cuddly bear.
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>> >> Local garages are selling a diesel additive called AdBlue.
>>
>> Don't put that in the fuel tank, it's pigs p and goes into separate tanks
>> on many newer trucks and gets squirted into the exhaust to make it all fluffy
>> like a cuddly bear.
>>
Also now used on some new Merc passenger car Diesels...
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...Local garages are selling a diesel additive called AdBlue. I guess this is some sort of anti-waxing stuff?...
Apparently not.
I asked this question a while ago.
It's only for certain lorries, might be to do with emissions, can't remember.
The stuff itself is very similar to urine.
Edit: I was going to add gb will be along in a minute....seems he's already here.
Last edited by: Iffy on Mon 20 Dec 10 at 12:29
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...Winter spec diesel cold filter plug point is only -12°C...
It's been plenty colder than that in many parts of the country.
I wonder if we will hear stories of lorry drivers lighting open fires under their fuel tanks.
Happily, 'frozen' diesel thaws back to its original state, so you shouldn't have any problems getting going when temperatures rise.
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Some of you may remember that I posted a thread in technical because I was having a issue with the cold starting of my Vectra last winter.
When in sub zero temps the car would start and then struggle (sometimes to pick up the revs until a dab on the throttle was given)
I was worried about this, and was expecting to have to give the throttle body a good decoke – however as the summer approached it was fine again and it went in for its annual service.
However (touch wood) all this past month of sub zero temps it fires up on the 1st turn of the key, and ticks over perfectly it was -8 this morning and the car had been sat unused all weekend outside – in temps as low as -10.
Turned the key fired up instantly
A Couple of weeks ago the car was snowed in I was unable to get the car out for about a week temps >-10 at some points – went to start the car after this period I was at least expecting a flat battery, and sure enough when I went to start it the dash illumination and interior light all heavily dimmed with a slightly struggling starter motor – however it fired up 1st time and once the battery was charged up all was well.
It turns out that all it needed was a good service.
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>> It turns out that all it needed was a good service.
New fuel filter maybe or the old one had it's button pressed to drain it of water?
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>> New fuel filter maybe or the old one had it's button pressed to drain it
>> of water?
>>
It was a major service, so the Fuel Filter, and Plugs where changed. whatever the underlying casue was it defintely has done it the world of good.
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I drove regularly last year at -25C and a couple of times at -35C. The only real difference was the time it took for the glowplugs to warm up, oh and the heater fan runs at full speed for ages to warm up the interior of the car. Never had problems with the mudguards filling up with slush or the windscreen washer freezing. Diesels these days generally have heating elements in the fuel circuits to stop the diesel waxing. Biggest problem I had was extricating the car from 3 days worth of semi-frozen snow one time in Austria, on the one occasion I'd forgotten my snow chains.
Colleague of mine had a problem with the driver's door on his Q7 last year that wouldn't close properly when the ambient temperature was below -20C or so. Audi reckoned water had got into the lubricating oil in the lock mechanism and frozen.
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>> >> Depends if you've treated the seals first.
>>
>> How to do that?
Some like a specialist treatment like Gummi Pflege tinyurl.com/22n99k6 but I just use Autoglym Vinyl & Rubber Care applied with a cloth.
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My washer fluid was frozen in the bottle yesterday! Only been -7 or so overnight. I dumped some neat stuff in the top and then it was ok after I'd driven most of the way home.
Wonder if anyone makes lagging jackets for washer bottles??
Old battery was killed off by the cold. Car is much better after getting a new one.
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>> Old battery was killed off by the cold.
Mine's going the same way. Hopefully the replacement will arrive tomorrow evening.
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Just hope my dads battery will be ok, it is two years old but it has already gone flat once I had to charge it and it is one of those ones which need that special water so I am not sure if the life has been shortened by zero maintenance.
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For me it's the initial turn of the key in the ignition that I dread, but today it sounded OK (-10 on top of the North Downs), auxiliary heater fitted into the air con means that I have hot air within 5 mins even though it's a diesel.
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>> .......... I am not sure if the life
>> has been shortened by zero maintenance.
My car's battery hasn't had any maintenance in the whole of its 7.5 year's life. I do what the Owners Guide recommends, which is leave it alone.
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>> My car's battery hasn't had any maintenance in the whole of its 7.5 year's life.
If it was mine, I'd be thinking of replacing it before it lets me down.
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>> one of those ones which need that special water so I am not sure if the life
>> has been shortened by zero maintenance.
What special water? All batteries need de-ionised water and that's nothing new.
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>> What special water? All batteries need de-ionised water and that's nothing new.
Oh dear, we going to go and have to blow up the Norsk Hydro plant again?
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Is that why batteries are so heavy then Zeddo ?
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>> Is that why batteries are so heavy then Zeddo ?
Yup, of course. What other explanation can there be?
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What do I have to with this water then? Does it simply need topping up?
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...What do I have to with this water then? Does it simply need topping up?...
The answer to that question is yes and no.
Yes it may need topping up, but no, you can't do it because it's a sealed 'maintenance free' battery.
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Just use the water sold for irons, the things females use so well, if you are in a hard water area. I am in a soft water area, nothing furrs up, no salt required in the dishwasher, and I have used tap water in batteries for many years without a problem.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 20 Dec 10 at 18:13
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It is not a sealed battery though, it does have a cap you remove to top it up it even said so in the instructions which I think I tied to the charger.
It was only a cheap battery.
It is soft water from the lakes here which comes down a 130 mile pipe :)
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>> >> It is soft water from the lakes here which comes down a 130 mile pipe
>> :)
>>
I would use that then, I don't buy bottled water unless I am in the south east, it tastes appaling there.
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>> I would use that then, I don't buy bottled water unless I am in the
>> south east, it tastes appaling there.
It tastes appealing? Is that what you were trying to say?
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>> It tastes appealing? Is that what you were trying to say?
>>
After it has been filtered through a few humans and sewage plants, definitely not! :-)
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The Fiesta apparantly took 15 minutes to start this morning. The battery is healthy and the car is turning over but no spark. Am I right to assume the plugs are freazing and thus not firing?
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SFAIK plus are unaffected by temperature - after all they work at 900C when the engine is running! Could be the gaps wrong or dodgy HT leads, particularly if they are those anti-interference ones which don't have real metal in them. If you tried to start it for 15 minutes it sounds as though the battery is OK! Happy Christmas BTW!
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>> The Fiesta apparantly took 15 minutes to start snip Am I right to assume the plugs
>> are freazing and thus not firing?
If the car's outside, the plugs are quite likely to be freazing.
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After 15 minutes engine churning in these temperatures the battery will need a charge.
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RattleandSmoke: "It was only a cheap battery."
Maybe this is the problem - Ive heard that even Halfords Standard of batterys are naff, and do not provide releiable starting in Winter.
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>> Ive heard that even Halfords Standard of batterys are
>> naff, and do not provide releiable starting in Winter.
I agree Halford batteries are pretty naff wheras Vauxhall own brand Go batteries (will fit all makes) are fantastic - competitively priced and last years.
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The plugs will be freezing cold but in what way will that prevent them from producing a spark if enough high voltage is put across the electrodes? If they don't spark I suggest that this will be caused by a low voltage and not a low temperature.
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>>I agree Halford batteries are pretty naff
I've been using this standard Halfords battery for a few years, and it's done pretty well so far.
tinyurl.com/6rpzqn
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>> I've been using this standard Halfords battery for a few years, and it's done pretty
>> well so far.
Maybe some are fine - but this is taken from a poster on another forum I go on - I hope its ok to post it here I think its food for thought
Mods: if its not, please feel free to delete.
"All comes down to the CCA value (cold cranking amps) which determines the power a battery can hold over time or something along those lines. Basically it determines how long the battery will hold power vs the amount of time you source power without the engine running... and also how much power the battery can give out depending on the temperature...
We got a brand new battery for my wifes car and it failed to turn over the car at -15 less than a week old because it was a 'cheap' one and the CCA value was at the lowest needed for the engine size...
Better to get one while your still safe and don't opt for a cheap one as the next cold snap will prove that you have wasted your pennies. Worth splashing out for a decent brand like VARTA who offer 5 year guarantees and only cost 20 quid on a halfords one"
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I've just learned brother's three-year-old Honda Civic wouldn't start last weekend due to a flat battery.
It had been left unused in his garage for six or seven days.
AA got it going and he's taken it to the Honda dealer who can find no fault and say the battery is fine.
Brother's not impressed, nor would I be.
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>> AA got it going and he's taken it to the Honda dealer who can find
>> no fault and say the battery is fine.
>>
>> Brother's not impressed, nor would I be.
Maybe it's been partially charged by taking it to the dealer, and they started it when it was still warm. Even a weak battery will turn over a warm engine or one that has sat there during the day. The real test would be the one that your brother gave it - seven days of sub zero temperatures, remember also that the alarm is placing a small drain on the battery during this time.
If he's not impressed, maybe he should get a decent battery himself if there is any doubt. It's been exceptionally cold so far. Or try bringing it back to full charge by using one of those intelligent chargers like a CTEK.
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It is not a Halfords battery, I cannot remember the brand.
Surely if it was the battery after 15 minutes it would be as flat as Lincoinshire?
The HT leads are 13 years old as is the coil pack so the problem is likely to be there. The plugs are about two years old. The strange thing is once started it runs perfectly.
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...maybe he should get a decent battery himself if there is any doubt...
Brother is the type who pays other people to do menial tasks such as that.
I think the Honda garage kept it overnight.
Fair play to them, they can't be accused of trying to rip brother off by fitting a new battery.
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At what temperature cars will be undrivable? - Zero
