|
There are lots of reports on Car4play of common problems on certain cars. Why do people buy these cars?
|
Because they don't do any research before buying and are guided by the salesman... Many cars wouldn't sell many at all if people actually thought about what their requirements are rather than be hoodwinked by style over substance...
|
Examples?
Maybe they weren't aware of the problems before they bought them? Very few people go on forums and investigate before they buy their cars.
What you've got to remember is that the average number of problems with most cars is pretty low - i.e. if a few people have problems with their Fandango Mk3s, it doesn't mean everyone will. Also, what some people might regard as a problem, other people may not even be aware of.
And don't forget (without meaning to sound smug) that the average level of car knowledge amongst the general public is staggeringly low. Many people just want their car to get from one MOT to the next at minimal expense and don't get problems sorted even if they were aware of them, so long as the car runs.
|
|
The wider question is how does the average punter decide on a car purchase? people like us on a motoring forum analyse (maybe over-analyse) all the facts etc, but the avarage punter will approach this rather differently. They probably rely on hearsay, rumours etc, such as 'It's a VW so it's dead reliable', 'Volvos are built like tanks', 'Alfas rust really quickly' 'Renaults are really comfy'. I'm a teacher and occasionally people on an educational forum will ask for car-buying advice, and the replies are along these lines. And as for servicing advice you wouldn't believe it!
|
Search me. Why did you buy the Focus?
;-
|
|
I think that people outside the "Trade" but have an interest in things motoring may base their opinions of reliability or "known faults" on specific model forums. These forums will attract people with faulty cars, when the vast majority are often fault free. The VOSA recall database may be a better source of information.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 18 Dec 10 at 08:45
|
>> Why did you buy the Focus?
I bought it because the specification was what I wanted, I knew they were reliable because my previous car was the same model, there's a Ford franchised dealer locally, Ford sell a lot of Focuses so they have a good reputation, I got it for a good price, it was low mileage, and it was red. I think I've thought of all the reasons.
|
>>I bought it because the specification was what I wanted<<
What made you go for a 2 ltr, L'es - which is a BIG engine, these days?
|
>> What made you go for a 2 ltr, L'es - which is a BIG engine,
>> these days?
>>
I wanted reasonable performance. Fuel consumption (within the range of that of petrol Focuses) wasn't a consideration. My overall average is 37 mpg.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 18 Dec 10 at 11:18
|
>>I wanted reasonable performance. Fuel consumption (within the range of that of petrol Focuses) wasn't a consideration.<<
Tis nice to have a bit of oomph to get thee out of trouble, if need be.
|
|
I'm always stunned when whatcar make the latest landrover their car of the year, when their own surveys consistently find it the make the least reliable.
|
HJ is a great soure of info needed to make a decision and also the Parkers owners reviews which I always read as they throw up stuff even HJ hasnt got.
I also have approaching 13 years being involved in some way with the motor trade, my indy also will give an honest opinion on a car.
If I therefore buy a car with a common problem, its either a carefully calculated risk, or I was drunk at the time. It also depends what the common issues are.
If you have a car which is know to warp its brake discs such as the Honda Legend, well, you would just build the cost of that into your servicing budget whereas if like some Saab and Vauxhalls, there are issues with cracking bulkheads, thats something to be wary of. You have to rate the severity of the issues and how easy they are to fix should they occur.
Issues with minor components, no problem, major structural or running gear problems, yes problem.
I have a customer who went through 4 VW Golfs made between '97-'02, each one cost her a fortune and barely went a month without needing to go in for work.
At first you could say that was just bad luck, but a read of the CBC for that age of Golf suggests she should have listened when I said this is normal.
After the 4th car, she bought a Suzuki and now has a Daihatsu. It took 4 cars and nothing short of £7000 in repair bills over those cars to drum into her head that VW did not stand for reliability anymore which was her perception.
Incidentally, neither the Suzuki or her Daihatsu have needed anything other than tyres and a lightbulb, which after having bought a full set of elec window motors, new ECU, new sensors, numerous alarm issues, gearbox failure and various other parts which id never heard of for her VWs, she has more money than she knows what to do with now.
She also said she would never buy a VW again.
People just get sucked into a way of thinking and its hard to change their mind sometimes.
|
People still buy them because in truth common problems are not that common.
Take my last car, an excellent Mondeo III petrol. Look on HJ and you will see a warning in bold that these engines suffer wear of the air inlet manifold flaps. If the flaps come off they are ingested by the engine, wrecking it.... and he's saying this is beoming increasingly common.
Well it didn't happen to mine, it still hasn't happened to its new owner (now at 130k), it hasn't happened to our friends with one and it hasn't happened to any of the many others belonging to folks we know.
So it's not really common... it's just possible.
|
>> Take my last car, an excellent Mondeo III petrol. Look on HJ and you will
>> see a warning in old that these engines suffer wear of the air inlet manifold
>> flaps. If the flaps come off they are ingested by the engine, wrecking it.... and
>> he's saying this is beoming increasingly common.
You can get an improved version of the throttle body from Ford, fairly easy to fit and solves the potential problem.
|
Yes, certainly with regard to the VAG group, the brand image is incredible and really has an influence despite the ownership reality. A neighbour down the road told me he wouldn't be able to drive anything other than that recently, despite a catalogue of expensive problems with VW, including failed PD injector (£400), alternator (£400 ish) plus a whole set of fuel pump and PD injectors (thousands!)
From a personal view, my Octavia is pretty good but to be honest has cost me more in repair over several years than anything else I've owned including Astras, a Megane, a ZX. The French cars despite their reputation were actually very reliable. A Golf mk 2 I owned continually filled with water and I note from the Skoda/VW forums that that VAG still can't build a car that stays dry inside. Doesn't stop folk believing they're bombproof though.
The two Pandas in the household are -on current form- the most trouble free so far, although they are only 3 years old. And yet Fiat's reputation is still on the floor isn't it.
There was a guy called Workshop who spoke a lot of sense on the HJ site. If I remember, he rated pretty much all European cars in the same boat, but rated Jap/Korean for reliability but high cost when they do go wrong.
|
>> There was a guy called Workshop who spoke a lot of sense on the HJ
>> site.
That's right. Workshop Tech. I miss his contributions.
|
>> >> There was a guy called Workshop who spoke a lot of sense on the
>> HJ
>> >> site.
Yes he did speak a lot of sense though seemed rather biased towards VAG and perhaps a little anti Ford.
|
>> Yes he did speak a lot of sense though seemed rather biased towards VAG and
>> perhaps a little anti Ford.
Given that he was a VAG specialist and owned a couple of Skoda's, it's not surprising really. Still, his contributions were well worth reading.
|
>> Yes, certainly with regard to the VAG group, the brand image is incredible and really
>> has an influence despite the ownership reality.
What reality is that then?
10 years of VAG (actually Skoda and VW) ownership, an electric steering box replaced, was still working but had the odd hiccup... and thats been it, totally and utterly relaible...
I'd recommend them based on that, and as I'm now on my third Skoda I suspect that speaks volumes...
Though there are obviously people around who haven't had such reliability...
Just like any other mainstream make apparently!
|
>> and as I'm now on my third Skoda
Seems really common for Skoda, on the BMW forums folks will buy a BMW then their next car might be something else. It's relatively rare to find members who've had loads of BMWs.
On the Skoda forums it's really common to stay with the brand.
P.s. i echo the sentiments above, bring back WorkshopTech... he's half the reason i've ended up driving an Octy Vrs :-)
|
>> I think I've thought
>> of all the reasons.
I forgot to mention that Ford spares are cheap and readily available, and servicing at a Ford franchised dealer is reasonably priced.
|
Do you think some of these problems are down to the type of driver the way they are driven?
Take these swirl flaps in the manifolds on the vectra 150 bhp 1.9cdti they break costing many £££ But these cars are driven flat out and modded to the hilt by some so yes may fail.
Brakes that wear out quicker well yes they do if you have your foot on the brake all the way down the hill.!!
Poor servicing or extending the servicing plays the biggest part, some can buy the motor but can't afford to maintain it.
|
>> Do you think some of these problems are down to the type of driver the
>> way they are driven?
>>
I've often thought that. Plus, in the case of some makes, the technology has got beyond the capabilities of a lot of dealer mechs. Ford Duratec TDCis as fitted to the Mk III Mondeo are a case in point, although interestingly you hardly hear anything about injector trouble on those these days, compared with 3-4 years ago.
|
|
Because people only post when they have problems. No-one posts that they've got no problems. As someone else commented, certain specific problems MIGHT occur, but then they might not.
|
I suppose a manufacturer can do no end of testing, but it's not until thousands of production vehicles roll off the line that 'common' problems can show up.
If say ten of a first batch of a thousand showed the same fault, could the manufacturer be blamed?
|
You also must consider the age of the vehicles concerned. Some cars are very reliable for the first 5 years, then issues creep in whereas others seem to have more longevity even into old age, so its quite possible for someone to have a reliable car during their ownership, but the next owner gets a whole host of problems that were on the way but hadnt arrived yet.
|
|
My personal experience has been fine but many other buyers are unhappy with their PSA diesel engined cars with particulate filters.
|
Why do people buy Renault diesels?
Why do people buy Mazda diesels?
Why did people buy Rovers with 1.8 petrol engines or Freelanders with the same.?
Or buy Vauxhalls that break camshafts or lunch HGs ?
Or never change their electricity and gas suppliers and buy from British Gas?
Or buy fruit and veg from M&S?
Or vote for politicians who openly insult them?
Because they are thick/lazy or easily fooled.. Take your pick.
EDIT or buy a new Microsoft Operating System on day1?
Last edited by: madf on Sat 18 Dec 10 at 15:40
|
>>> Because they are thick/lazy or easily fooled
No... it's because folks like choice.
BTW British Gas gas is best... I think it's the additive package... which you obviously don't get with these cheap brands :-)
|
|
I am far from convinced there are common problems. Its all pot luck.
|
I did read that the new Fiat Twin Air engine was tested for 8 years. That seems either to be excessive or that the testing threw up a lot of problems. I wonder which?
Quote by Rattle on the Twin Air Thread
It should be a reliable engine too as it has taken FIAT 8 years to develop it. Much of that was testing.
Last edited by: Perky Penguin (p) on Sat 18 Dec 10 at 15:49
|
I think, to be fair to those who buy cars with known faults, they would only know about these faults if they knew where to look and really, its only folk like us that would understand the significance of faults anyway - for some people cars are magic and they just start when they turn the key, the means by which it moves and operates is simply beyond them.
They may also think when the car keeps breaking that its normal, theres no way they could reasonably know, they prob believe what the garage tells them.
|
|
It's better to have a common problem than an uncommon one. If it's a common problem there will be a common fix for it.
|
The Panda has a common problem - the steering motor.
However under four years FIAT tends to pay for it and I am not sure if I will have the car beyond that I might need something a bit bigger by then.
|
>> I am not sure if I will have the car beyond that I might need something a bit bigger by then.<<
Got a secret pregnant girlfriend have ya? ;-)
|
|
Not yet but I will be nearly 32 by the time the Panda is paid off and a lot will happen by then although I will probably simply be too fat to fit in the Panda by then :(
|
>>although I will probably simply be too fat to fit in the Panda by then :(<<
And possibly diabetic, alas.
|
We, the people here, know something about cars as we love cars.
Common public know little about cars. One of my female collegues told me last week her car is rubbish even in slightest snow. I asked what car she drives and unsurprisingly it was a BMW. She didn't even know that it was a RWD and hadn't any clue what winter tyre means. She was angry as she thought since she paid a premium price for the car, it was supposed to excellent in snow!
Most people (not us), when buy cars, do one or more of the following
* Believe in what salesman says
* Ask their non car expert friends etc. recommendation
* Read some rubbish car magazines which tend to favour those brands which good marketing budget
* Thinks an expensive car is always better than a cheaper one
The car manufacturers spend so much money on advertisements for a reason. Top Gear, Fifth Gear etc. shows made people believe some brands are superior to others (even though normal people won't drive in race tracks those motoring journos do).
Actually, in an advanced market like UK, selling not so reliable cars is actually easier because people here are more fashion concious than economy concious. Brands like Renualt/Peugeot etc. flopped in developing countries (Asia/Africa) yet Jap/Korean brands sell their like hot cakes. Mercs in the past were more reliable than Japanese cars but sadly they lost their true identity.
Good cars are successful in all countries, poor cars are only successful in rich countries.
>> buy a new Microsoft Operating System on day1?
Linux releases on day 1 are as buggy as Windows. But at least you don't have to pay for Linux :o)
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Dec 10 at 00:33
|
|
Not really sure about that both Renault and Peoguet have very big markets in the developing work.
|
>> Not really sure about that both Renault and Peoguet have very big markets in the
>> developing work.
I havn't been to either Asia or Africa myself, but whenever I've seen documentaries based in these countries, it's usually Toyotas, Mazdas e.t.c
|
I was thinking more parts of south Africa where they love the old Peoguet 505 and of course south America has a lot of European brands. FIAT does very well there selling reskinned Unos.
I think parts nearer to Asia will have more jap cars because Japan is in Asia.
In develiping countries I think they want simple cars which are easy to fix which is why a lot of the FIRE based FIATs do so well in south and central America.
|
|
Renault use the Dacia brand in some countries, Turkey being one example, there are combined Renault / Dacia factories and dealers, and thousands of Dacias on the road.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 18 Dec 10 at 21:46
|
>> I was thinking more parts of south Africa where they love the old Peoguet 505
Having lived in Kenya, I can say with certainty why - its because there is an assembly plant there - When I lived there (10 years ago) they made peugeot 405 and subaru legacy locally.
The government charged high rates of import duty on imported new cars, so it made sense to assemble locally.
South Africa is even more diverse - there is a major BMW assembly operation for example.
|
MB's have been assembled in SA for a number of years.
European spec Hilux is made there too though virtually every component on the truck is stamped Toyota Thailand.
|
Common problems - hobby
