Hi all,
We currently have a very much loved Volvo S60 D5 on an 07 plate. We really like it, but with a 2 year old son and all paraphernalia and probability of carting around in addition his cousin on holidays abroad plus grandma, it's just a bit too small for our needs now. It has FVSH and 46k. SE spec, with additional parking sensors, premium sound system and folding mirrors.
Plan would be to replace with a large estate. We looked at the E-class, but it is pretty expensive and I'm dubious about the rear-facing child seats. The V70 (my fave) is big enough for two child seats and an adult in the back, but no extra seats. The only Volvo with 7 seats is the XC90, which is nice but we'd rather avoid a 4x4. Further option is the Superb estate, looks nice and good value and well regarded.
So specifially,
1) Are there safety concerns re rear-facing extra seats (ie in the boot)? I notice that the latest V70 doesn't have this as an option. XC90 extra seats are forward facing.
2) Are the XC90 running costs likely to be alot more than a V70? They seem to cost alot more to buy.
3) Is the Superb as big inside as a V70?
4) Is a Merc worth the extra?
Next thing- with regard to the S60, we were offered what I thought was a derisory £6.5k. Volvo dealer offered not much more (paid £13k from a dealer 2 years ago). Odd thing is that webuyanycar offered £8300; if you want to buy one FROM a dealer, it would set you back about £9k++, but private examples are not going for much at all. Is this an unpopular car, or is this the nature of the game these days? View on best option to maximise income?
Cheers in advance,
Alex.
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Alex
I had the same dilemma when my Outback was too small for three children. You may recall that at first I looked at estates with seven seats but was not convinced about the safety and so bought an XC90 which I hated.
I now have a Ford S-Max. It is very very good to drive, has an economical yet powerful diesel engine which can be mated to a six speed autobox. The new model has the Ford DSG gearbox and an even more powerful and economical engine.
There are huge amounts of toys fitted to it all of which are useful.
Being blunt, I could afford something far more 'classy' but didn't see the point in spending over £30,000 for a well used Audi Q7 (which is the only sensible alternative to the XC90 for seven seats) when £20,000 for me a less than one year old S-Max with significant savings in fuel, insurance and road tax - and its better to drive.
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Don't s'pose you fancy a Mondeo estate? Good cars those...
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I'd also suggest the S-Max. My brother and sister in law have one in 2.0 diesel Titanium X trim, and it is lovely.
We'd have one like a shot if we could afford it.
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Alex,
Test the V70 carefully with two child seats and an adult sitting in the back before you buy.
I tried one (2006/2007 models) earlier this year and was unpleasantly surprised how little room there was behind the front seats - not enough to fit a two year old in a Maxi Cosi Tobi seat when the child seat was reclined.
Also, isn't the S60 based on the same platform as the V70? A roof box on the car you already have might give you just as much space for when you need it.
Happy hunting!
- Gromit
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>> Being blunt, I could afford something far more 'classy' but didn't see the point in
>> spending over £30,000 for a well used Audi Q7
I was at Blackbushe Auctions in September.
three year old Audi Q7s with average mileage wont even fetch 20k. Most were going for about 17k
The trade dont want them and they are a complete bargain.
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Phew!
Mind you another reason not to buy one if no-one else wants one - unless you are going to run it into the ground.
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>> three year old Audi Q7s with average mileage wont even fetch 20k. Most were going
>> for about 17k
A colleague was looking at them a month or so ago out in the retail marketplace with a budget of £20k, and he was struggling to find anything newer than an 06 or 56 with 80-100k on the clock. Sub 20k is bottom of the barrel stuff for a Q7 in retail terms.
He ended up with an 07 reg, 29,000 mile Touareg 3.0 TDI SE, and enough change out of his budget for a years RFL, and a years insurance.
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Thanks for the responses, all.
Espada- I can certainly see the sense in your choice, but we'd really like to avoid an mpv if possible (wife is trying to avoid the school run mum image, and I really like estates). Can I ask what you hated about the XC?
Humph- I can't think of a logical reason why we're not looking at Mondys. But we're not. Not looking at Vauxhalls or VWs or Peugeots either. Not looking at BMWs. The hypocrisy and illogicality annoys even me!
DP- see above re mpvs
Gromit- I think you looked at the previous model V70, which is based on the S60 that we have, and it certainly is not the widest of vehicles given the exterior dimensions. The current model (from 2008) is based on the S80 and is much wider. We were looking at the roofbox route (makes alot of sense especially as we already have the roofbars) , but that wouldn't give us the extra seat we'd like.
Had a rethink, and I'm looking for an old shape E class estate with 7 seats and all the trimmings, and a decent diesel engine. Can't find one though.
Any other non-mpv cars with 7 seats?
Cheers again,
Alex.
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Alex
I may have had a poor example of an XC90. I bought a 3 yo 78,000 mile 2.4D SE auto with Comms Pack. I thought the car was lumbering and noisy although it was comfortable and spacious.
What should have been a car with a virtually perfect interior (you would think so with so many miles it must have spent all its time on the motorway with only a driver aboard) it was not as well presented as expected and possibly my disappointment got the better of me. It didn't help that a friend's wife has one and her's was far quieter on the idle than mine.
Objectively though, it was a high, heavy car and handled accordingly whereas the S-Max feels very much like a saloon (or estate) on the road. Certainly handles no worse than my old Outback. Also some of the features were clumsily applied. The Comms Pack requires you to put the SIM card in the slot in the car. So I had my old Parrot fitted, but it wouldn't cut the radio.
I fell out of love very quickly and whilst I can still see the attraction, do not need 4x4 and therefore an MPV makes far more sense than a SUV for travelling mostly one up with very occasionally five or six passengers.
In our area the XC90 is far more of a school run car than the S-Max which has far more male drivers than female. It does not shout 'school run' because of its shape, sharp snout and almost car like height. You don't climb up or drop into the drivers seat - just slide in. That makes it just great for me.
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>> Had a rethink, and I'm looking for an old shape E class estate with 7
>> seats and all the trimmings, and a decent diesel engine. Can't find one though.
>>
When you say 'old shape' do you mean the just-superceded 2004-2010 W211, or the earlier W210 shape? If it's the later you need to be VERY careful of rust everywhere. If it's the former, you need to be careful of Valeo radiators on the earlier ones - they need to be replaced by a Behr before they fail and contaminate the autobox oil with expensive results.
I can recommend the W211 estate - very comfortable, smooth and refined. And not expensive to run. The rear facing seats have weight and height limits (70 kg and 1.4m springs to mind, but I could be wrong) and you have no boot when they are in use, although I've seen adults squashed into them!
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Alex - take SWMBO to a Ford dealer and show her an S-Max - say it's an estate. And then show her a Galaxy - now this is an MPV.
I'm not sure what your budget is but I think the S-Max, V70 and E-class are the only 7-seaters that aren't MPVs - thinking baout it I think the Peugeot 308 SW has them as an option, but there can't be much legroom.
If you don't need 7 seats, the Skoda Superb is a similar size to a Mondeo and both are excellent. You'd get a much newer Ford or Skoda for your money than you will a Mercedes - and Mercedes have had some quality problems.
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Consider a Hyundai Santa Fe - you'll get a brand new top spec one with change from £25k.
I've driven one and it handles fine, has plenty of poke, and with seats 6 and 7 folded has a boot that is much bigger than pretty much any estate car.
Check the video test on another website for more details (Whatcar and HJ both have one).
I'd take it over a D5 XC90 in a heartbeat.
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...Consider a Hyundai Santa Fe...
Good shout.
Mate of mine's just got one because he couldn't face another winter in his XK.
Different car obviously, but he's genuinely pleased with it.
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I read the needs to be, apm/Alex needs a bigger car and not more seats. The S60 is just to small for the luggage etc. He's not been back to read responses yet though.
He seems to suggest/think the E Class estate has the extra seats and he's not sure about them. But they were optional weren't they (?) and most E Class estates don't have them.
But offering better space would be a Ford Mondeo (current) Estate or the Skoda Superb Estate. But the former has been around longer.
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Alex,
Fact is if it doesn't have a hatch the majority of UK drivers will not like it full stop.
I've got an S60 D5 Sport and it is the best car I have EVER owned. OK, it doesn't have the outright pace of my FIAT Coupe but with the low running costs and pace for the fuel consumption it really is a tough act to follow.
I kept mine as my toy, got rid of the rubbishy tyres and front bushes which are factory fit and love almost every mile I am behind the wheel (the exception being when driving on the farm tracks the UK call A roads and motorways).
Get your wife something she wants and keep the S60.
To answer you question about rear facing third row seats ask yourself two questions:
1. Why do Volvo no longer offer them
2. How many manufacturers do offer them as factory fit now
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I'd not put anyone in the boot area of a car that I liked. Not for a long distance for sure. And that includes all the current smaller 7 seat MPVs.
The crash tests have probably stopped a lot of companies offering rear facing child seats in the boot. But that is in my opinion better than a forward facing seat with the heads/bodies closer to the boot. This is the rear crumple zone afterall.
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Currently own a Honda FRV - noone sits "in the boot", with room for 6 in the cabin (3 kids' seats easily fit in the back unlike most normal cars. Can be tight with 3 adults up front though.
Drives like a car, 30-33mpg mixed driving for a 1.8 petrol auto.
Boot is decent enough and isn't diminished when all seats are occupied. Folded down (33/33/33 rear seats) makes it a little van.
Like a FIAT Multipla without looking like it's mum and sister are the same vehicle.
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>> Get your wife something she wants and keep the S60.
Sounds like a good plan to me, too.
It does, however, seem faintly ludicrous that having a two year-old child suddenly dictates the need for a 7-seater vehicle! If the OP has another kid, will a minibus be required?
Last edited by: Old Sock on Tue 14 Dec 10 at 09:29
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Buy a roof box and stick it on the Volvo when required.
I dont buy this "no space" stuff.
In the past I have shuttled Me, wife, son & friend granny and luggage on vacation in France.
> but with a 2 year old son and all paraphernalia
What paraphernalia does a two year old need? Mine didn't and we shipped him everywhere at two, even to Australia.
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...What paraphernalia does a two year old need?...
Three of us went on several holidays in the back of a Cortina.
It seems to me a modern child travels with about 10 times the amount of stuff we did.
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>> It seems to me a modern child travels with about 10 times the amount of
>> stuff we did.
Indeed - and they're not so easily fobbed off with an orange for a Christmas present :-)
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Edit:
I meant to say, in a Renault Scenic.
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>> I dont buy this "no space" stuff.
Nor me, but sometimes you just need an excuse to change. I've come up with worse ;-)
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>> Buy a roof box and stick it on the Volvo when required.
>>
>> I dont buy this "no space" stuff.
The roof box is a good way around it saves having to drive an undertakers special for the other 50 weeks of the year.
>> In the past I have shuttled Me, wife, son & friend granny and luggage on
>> vacation in France.
>>
>> > but with a 2 year old son and all paraphernalia
>>
>> What paraphernalia does a two year old need? Mine didn't and we shipped him everywhere
>> at two, even to Australia.
>>
You'd be surprised. The little guy may only be two but his life survival capsule formally known as a car seat probably takes up the same shoulder room as a prop forward. The S60 is really only a four seater due to the huge transmission tunnel complete with floor mounted bottle or rubbish bag holder.
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>> Consider a Hyundai Santa Fe - you'll get a brand new top spec one with change from £25k.
Kia Sorento (new model) is available from £22k.
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Superb estate is between £17.7k - £28k brand new full retail depending on engine and spec but is a big car inside (top price is for V3.6).
At this level I would not be looking at the Korean alternatives but a perhaps an ex demo Superb plus chopping the Volvo into WBAC if their offer is better than P/X offers.
No minus VAT deals on Superbs as far as I can see; these are only on the Octavia and Yeti if these float your boat
What are the brokers offering on Superb estates?
As always
Mark
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Just looked elsewhere......
Benfields have 2010/10 Superb Estates ex demo with c5k miles 2.0 Tdi 140 SE in metallic Silver on at £19995 before you haggle.
Probably loads more offers out there as a certain hat wearing journo lists pages of offers for Superbs between £2/3k off retail for new in the offers part of his website.
As always
Mark
Last edited by: Mark on Tue 14 Dec 10 at 20:40
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An all singing all dancing brand new Superb 170bhp diseasal estate
- with the DSG autobox
- in Elegance trim, loads of toys
- xenons with AFS (these are ace on my octy)
- satnav inc 32Gig hdd, voice control, SD card reader, 3.5mm aux in
- bluetooth
- rear parking sensors
- Tyre pressure monitor
- electrically adjustable front seats, drivers seat with memory for each keyfob
- full leather
- heated seats
- Maxidot (essential on a Skoda, it's the driver info display it's excellent)
- a proper spare wheel
- auto wipers & headlights
£23,178 via drivethedeal.com (they're well recommended by Skoda buyers on Briskoda.net)
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Hi all,
Many thanks for your various helpful comments.
To give some more context- We are holidaying deep into France next summer- self, SWMBO, MiL and son. S60 plus roof box would be plenty big enough. Subsequently, we will take SWMBO's nephew too (family not wealthy and have older son with very special needs that mean he won't endure a long journey- this way, nephew gets a holiday & our lad has a playmate). Hence the need for the ability to fit 2 x car seat plus grandma in the back. We could just trade up to a big saloon & go with roofbox, but I have always liked estates and here's my chance!!! E-class, V70 and Superb would all be plenty big enough.
The option of 7 seats comes in as I think we will keep this car for a long time, and it would give us the extra versatility later on when no. 1 son has little friends on days out etc. Feels sensible to include now rather than wish we had later.
While I can recognise that an mpv makes sense (and has been mentioned the S-Max is a fine example of the type), the 7 seats will only be used from time to time; for general use, an estate seems to be (to me) a more sensible sort of car, and as I said, I REALLY like them (not sure why; possibly cos my grandfather always had them?).
Anyway, I'm warming to the Merc- we'd be looking at a post-facelift W211, which seems universally liked- the HJ CBCB and Which? being my usual sources of info. Well constructed, equipped and a handsome beast (I think). I do have concerns about the rear-facing seats, but if there were safety issues, MB wouldn't put them in, surely (the risk of litigation would be too great?) Looking at the car, there seems to be quite alot of boot still between the seats and the rear, so some crumple before the kiddies?
I hope that makes more sense now.
Actually, while I'm here- what is an MB R-class? Looks a bit like an E-class on steroids. Any good?
Thanks again for your wisdom, all.
Alex.
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Actually scrap the R-class question, I've just read the review on HJ. 17ft long!! Not really what we're looking for- we're not s skinny family by any means, but we're not that big.
Alex.
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>> Actually, while I'm here- what is an MB R-class
Based on the MB ML 4x4 running gear. It was originally meant to be a 4x4 MPV type vehicle. They changed that a bit though.
Made in either USA or Mexico too. So maybe not as well assembled as other Mercs?
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It was originally offered in two wheelbase length though. Still a big car.
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Please see the Superb estate before you choose these are huge in the back and will do the grandma plus option you describe.
Personally I would not have any seven seater, just measure the space from the rear screen to the seat occupants face and then think crumple zone.
Just my tuppence worth
As always
Mark
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Volvo S60 - car replacement: options - Netsur
