quote-------No, this isn't Marks & Spencer moving into the tyre business. It is a change to German traffic regulations meaning that all from Saturday 4 December, all trucks over 3.5 tonnes and buses with more than eight seats must use Mud and Snow (M+S) drive axle tyres on roads covered with ice, hard-packed snow or slush. This applies to domestic vehicles and foreigners visiting or crossing the country. German tyre-maker Continental welcomes the move that says clarifies the law by defining which tyres are suitable for winter and when to use them. The firm says all its drive axle tyres are M+S rated and marked. It also says winter-marked tyres such as its Scandinavia range used on all axles will give even greater safety on winter roads---------unquote
this seems over kill to me
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Why over-kill? Are you German? Do you traipse along the Autobahn in all weathers, with experience of German, lunatic, driving? The M&S mark only relates to tread design: not to the compound so for some reason the traffic regualtions have missed out on the more rigorous requirements of the snowflake/mountain symbol, which requires testing. SFAIK, the M&S symbol is unregulated.
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ok ok im only the messenger
just be careful next time you rent a 7.5 tonne truck and need to go to baden baden coss its gunna cost ya ok ;-)
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Didn't mean to comment with such asperity! I dare say some of us are still trundling along to the Fatherland on business, unknowing, as I would be. If I needed to go.
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Step in the right direction but opportunity missed to legislate for winter tyre spec.
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Sorry Norton ignorance is no excuse ! Don't come to central Europe in Jan. and claim you didn't know.
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Not now, is what I meant to impart, thanks to Bellboy raising the issue.
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The OP is specifically referring to HGVs. Another recent law has been introduced for cars, re winter tyres with the snowflake/mountain symbol. Can't find the link atm, but essentially, when conditions demand, you must have proper/snowflake winter tyres on. The fine is, I think €40 if driving without, and if you hold up the traffic because you are driving without the correct tyres, it goes up to €80. If I can find the link I'll post it, it's in german but I have a rough english translation available. It also mentions that the tyres on some PSVs/HGVs are already suitable for the conditions due to their tread compound IIRC.
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BB What is the car tyre legal limit in Germany i understand it's more than ours is it not?
As runners find there way here from Germany don't they?
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www.thelocal.de/search.php?keywordSearch=winter+tyres&search=Go
M&S tyres must have the snowflake and mountain symbol to be legal in Germany,4mm is adviced for winter but not compulsory as it stands its the same as the UK.Winter tyres for commercials is not being enforced.At the moment just about every autobahn is blocked with snow and trucks on normal tyres with the police ferrying fuel ,coffee,food to stranded drivers.
Last edited by: Collos on Thu 9 Dec 10 at 17:22
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www.logistikaktuell.de/?affiliate=MUT0593J0539000
Here is the law relating to HGV and LKV its in German but the gist is can prove very expansive ,drivers are getting round the law on tyres by carrying chains,but after the last few days debacle I am sure the police will be told to enforce the law more rigerously.
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The new law is at 3a:
www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo/__2.html
or in English via Google
tinyurl.com/2wdemvp
No snowflake is required, only M + S. Commercial vehicles on driven axles only.
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Thats the old law which was unenforcable the new law is a country law not a state law and has the date 4/12/2010 for its start.All new M&S tyres must have the snow flake and mountain symbol irrespective whether they are all season or winter tyres.
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Thanks for the info Collos. I will let the Bundesministerium know that they have made a mistake. Strange but the Budestag Drucksache seems to have the same wording.
tinyurl.com/3y4xp9y
Do you have a better source?
MfG
Biggles
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There is no special limit for winter tyres, so the standard 1.6 mm applies.
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>> There is no special limit for winter tyres, so the standard 1.6 mm applies.
Metrication -itt's *grrreat*!
(derisive laughter)
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www.thelocal.de/society/20101218-31893.html
The German law for winter tyres regarding commercial vehicles and buses is not a law yet nor will it be in the near future according to the bundestag latest debate.
Last edited by: Collos on Sat 18 Dec 10 at 13:54
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I notice it was Bellboy started the topic...
Where's he off sunning his buns then :-)
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For those driving trucks through snow-bound Germany, please note that there is a requirement for winter tyres on the driven wheels in the case of snow or ice on the roads. The proposal to change this newly introduced legislation to require winter tyres on all axles or alternatively require chains to be carried has not yet been introduced but this may happen in order to try and reduce the frequency of autobahns blocked by the juggernauts.
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Not according to the report from the bundestag, the law was not passed by the upper house and did not be come law ,hundreds of trucks stuck in Germany on normal tyres at the moment and the police cannot fine any of them unlike car drivers.
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Dear Collos,
While reaslising that my postings might be seen as a personal attack on you, I assure you that that is not my intention. I only wish to correct what I see as being incorrect information.
With regard to the decision of the Bundesrat, that is given in
tinyurl.com/38go7nm
This specifically changed the proposals of the Bundestag to include HGVs.
The original link I gave is the version of the law which is in force and which is promulgated by the Ministry of Justice. Trust me.
Best regards and a Merry Christmas,
Biggles
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I am to old and thick skinned to take anything to heart,my link above came from yesterdays paper as can be seen the ordung you refer to was not passed by the Bunderstag upper house when it came for its final reading on friday and as such has not become law but it will not be the first time a paper gets a report wrong .I personnally do not care one way or the other as I am now retired and chose when I want to travel although I have to go to the UK in the January to see my mother hopefully the snow has gone by then but I have been in Dresden since 1989 and do not remember the snow as bad as this.
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The article you referred to relates to a desire on the part of the SPD/Greens to further tighten the new rules imposed at the beginning of December, hence the language "He also pointed out that winter tyre rules had recently been changed." The view which the Minister rejected was that the rules had to be extended from driven axles only to all axles for HGVs, i.e. a "thorough winter-tyre requirement". The report is thus totally correct.
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M+S tyres compulsory for Germany - NortonES2
