Was driving back just now down some quite twisty roads, the temperature had reached -7 and it was quite foggy.
I would not have had a clue anything was unusual apart from the fog. I had my heater queitely blowing away and I had the rear dimister on etc. The car didn't miss a single spark and felt quite wonderful. The only hint of the cold temperatures was that my steering was lighter than usual and stopping distance was worse. It started in less than a fraction of a second too.
I cannot imagine an old Austin coping so well.
I just find it amazing all the sensors doing their bit to make sure to the driver the car works as normal. No risk of flooding the engine here.
So far I have been impressed with the level of grip on ice too. I know my old Corsa would have skidded where the Panda has just gripped.
As far as I am concerned though I am still being very careful in these conditions and press the windows down at junctions etc so I have better visibility for bikes.
I remember all the problems my dad used to have getting his car to work in winter and the temperature was nothing like as it has been. I have yet to see a single break down but I have seen a couple of minor bumps.
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Don't get too confident now !
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That is the danger but I am adjusting my speed and gearing according to the slippery roads. I am just impressed because I remember my Corsa sliding about. I assume part of is due to my skinny and high profile tyres and tall body.
Not sure if the ABS is helping as I don't think I have ever needed it.
I think partly is there is quite a lot of feeling to the steering in the Panda despite it being connected to a motor where as the Corsa used an early EPS system which had no feeling at all behind the wheel.
But apart from the grip I am just so impressed that it drives so well in such cold conditions. I assume petrol dosn't freeze?
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As cars work OK in Scandinavian countries, alpine areas, and also tropical areas, I don't think the UK is any great challenge for them.
I take it your two years is up and you can afford to accru a few points on your licence. :-)
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Was up in October and being driving about twice as much since. There is no way I would have ventured out in -7c slippery foggy roads otherwise.
I am still cautious with regard to speed limits and everything but just not as paranoid now.
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A lot of the older Scandinavian cars had quite a few simple modifications didn't they just as hoods under the bonnet. Mind you even my dads Fiesta has a hood but I think that is just to drain out some of the noise of the old OVH.
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Hoods do you mean sound proofing insulation under bonnet.?
This Vectra diesel fired into life at -10 other morning and started better when temp was that low than it does at just above freezing!! Although it was a bit rough sounding.
Years back the mk3 escort cvh was a pig and the sierra auto choke webber was a pig, the better one was the astra 1991 with manaul choke.
Today we have it made with some technolodgy but how far advanced do we have to go a simple approach to cars would be better than all these whizz computers to fix them i think.
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I'm glad you're pleased with it Ratto.
It's satisfying to know you've spent your wedge on something to enjoy. I've driven about 12 miles today in what I think is an appalling little car. Brand new, delivery miles.
Couldn't see ythe speedo because of the steering wheel, B posts too wide combined with the passenger seat headrest blocking the view from the n/s rear window completely. Boot big enough for a couple of laptops and having to crane forward at the lights to actually see them.
The glove box lid fell onto the floor when I tried to open it......fitted with press studs !
Not for the likes of me....thankfully.
Ted
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I've driven about>> 12 miles today in what I think is an appalling little car. Brand new, delivery
>> miles.
>> >>
Are you going to tell us what it was?
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See if you can guess.
Ted
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Erm you need to give us a clue as to what sort of car it is.
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Small, and with thick B-pillars and clearly poor quality control.
Citroen DS3? Or Hyundai/Kia?
Could perhaps be a Panda but Fiats have improved, particularly the ones built in Poland, as the Panda is.
Can't resist it Ted - a Jowett Bradford? No, as it wouldn't have had a glovebox. Something about the Citroen Berlingo always reminds me of the Jowett Bradford.
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Alto? The reason being build quality sounds like the City Rover which hailed from there too and broke up as we delivered them.
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Dang - I was going to say that !
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I thought of the Alto/Pixio too as the plastics felt like they were made by Lada when I looked at one. However I didn't think the B pillers were that thick.
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I never knew you were on the car carriers PU..
:-)
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Well Rats, it's only a little shoping trolley for use in the city.......but you'll really have to use your IQ to guess this one !
Ted
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>>
>> Well Rats, it's only a little shoping trolley for use in the city.......but you'll really
>> have to use your IQ to guess this one !
Jolly expensive for they're size Ted, ugly brute to boot.
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Isn't there something called a hyundai i10 or similar?
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Reckon on a Fiat 500.
Rattle, try driving in this weather with no roof / windows except front screen / heater / but with holes in the floor. You still get lulled into a false sense of security but it's due to being numb! And thats not spelt with a D before anyone says anything:)
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Could be a 500 but would be very surprised if the glovebox fell off. It could perhaps be its sister the Ford Ka. Could be a Panda I suppose.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 6 Dec 10 at 23:11
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Has Ted just given us the answer or is he more subtle?
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haha the Toyota IQ! Feel thick now
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Well, I wouldn't like to be sat in one of these when a 52 ton Manchester tram fell on it....that's for sure !
Did I mention that I queued for the tram today ?
Ted
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"Did I mention that I queued for the tram today ?"
Ah that would be a T68 or perhaps a Bombardier Flexity Swift? A mine of information this place.
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>> Did I mention that I queued for the tram today ?
>>
>> Ted
>>
Think yourself lucky they were running.
I heard there was a serious accident with one last night.
I'm surprised they haven't all been 'grounded' for safety checks............
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Here's an entry list for next month's Exeter trial:
www.themotorcyclingclub.org.uk/pdf/2011/2011ex_entry.pdf
These will be thrown at hills many of us would have trouble walking up. There's plenty of stuff on you tube to give an idea.
Not many modern vehicles. I wonder why?
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I think partly is there is quite a lot of feeling to the steering in the Panda despite it being connected to a motor where as the Corsa used an early EPS system which had no feeling at all behind the wheel.
>>>
>>>>> both cars use an inverted modified windscreen motor nailed onto the side of the down shaft and are both very very basic in their steering sensor circuits im afraid mr ratts
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But I suspect the rack itself is probably a bit better than the Corsas, unless the Corsas had ot much feel because it was worn.
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Not all older cars were so bad. My little Triumph 1500 put heat into the cabin within 200 yards of setting off - even in this weather. And with narrow tyres, heavy engine and front wheel drive it was absolutely brilliant in snow. I'd much prefer to still have it in the weather today than my wife's little Jazz (which I guess is the modern equivalent),
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My Mk1 Astra (Manual Choke) Started on the Key 1st time, and Everytime in this kind of weather.
Brilliant in the snow, and warmed up reletivley quickly.
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The Morris Minor 1000 was terrific in the snow and ice.
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After you've spent half an hour adjusting the points to get it to start :).
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And half a tin of WD40 for the condensation in the dizzy and the rest on the ht leads for good luck :-)
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Electronic Ignition in my Mk1 Astra - never needed touching.
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...After you've spent half an hour adjusting the points to get it to start...And half a tin of WD40 for the condensation in the dizzy and the rest on the ht leads for good luck...
Ye of little faith.
There was nothing wrong with the points if they were maintained properly.
An external star washer was crucial to grip the baseplate to keep the gap constant, and a little grease on the heel was also worthwhile.
Never had any condensation problems with ours.
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>> After you've spent half an hour adjusting the points to get it to start :).
>>
>>
Nonsense!
As long as points AND condensers were changed as per recommendations, (including lubing the cam) then points hardly ever caused problems.
In my experience you look after any machine, it will look after you.
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iffy and swiss: no point in telling these whippersnappers anything sensible about points or carburettors. They simply remember their dads' woefully neglected (by the garage as well as their owners) examples and know better than you or me.
Kids today, eh?
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' woefully neglected
=
Constantly needing to be fettled. Fragile. Troublesome.
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>> Constantly needing to be fettled. Fragile. Troublesome.
Because neglected, Zeddo. Fettled every 5000 or whatever, a 10-minute job for someone who knows what they are doing, neither fragile nor troublesome. By the standards of the time of course.
Are you not comparing as it were Nelson's 'Victory' with a nuclear submarine?
Er... on reflection perhaps the Victory would be more reliable over a long time period actually. I feel the same about points and carbs which at least respond to fettling unlike your beloved black boxes which can't be fettled...
Heh heh...
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Points and carbs are relics of the steam age. And that's where they should remain.
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>> that's where they should remain.
... along with spelling and grammar and morals and telling the truth and minding your own business and not suing for whiplash when someone gives you a dirty look and putting your carp in the litter bin and all that stuff...
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>> >> that's where they should remain.
>>
>> ... along with spelling and grammar and morals and telling the truth and minding your
>> own business and not suing for whiplash when someone gives you a dirty look and
>> putting your carp in the litter bin and all that stuff...
what are you blathering on about? By what leap of faith can you bridge morals and a set of points in a car?
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>> what are you blathering on about?
I am blathering on in a way that is perhaps too oblique for some about what might politely be called your muscular postmodernism, Zeddo.
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I shall carry that tag with pride. It sounds like a school of art.
The Zeddo School of Muscular Post Modernism.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 16:36
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>> sounds like a school of art.
Yeah. The dead-printed-circuit-on-a-thong school.
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Now thats the trouble with the art world, its so cliquey, so b itchy.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 16:42
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>> Kids today, eh?
>>
They just don't get "Fix it yourself or walk", do they?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 14:25
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>> >> Kids today, eh?
>>
>> They just don't get "Fix it yourself or walk", do they?
>>
That's because they can't....
.... today's version of "Fix it yourself or walk" is;
''Hello, I'd like you to send me a AA/RAC/Red Flag breakdown truck.....''
closely followed by;
''HOW MUCH!!!!!!! for one ECU?
Thats more than the cars worth!
PLUS FITTING???? you're having a laugh!''
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The only points I've known that could give bother unless they were absolutely spot on were on the Rover 3500 V8.
I reckon the eight-lobed cam was asking for a lot of opening and closing in one rotation.
The cam's profile meant the points only opened a tiny amount at the best of times, so any wear badly hampered their operation.
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...Dwell meter iffy ?...
In the case of the Rover V8, it was recommend an electronic ignition conversion.
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I had a transistor assisted points unit that I moved from car to car for several years. At least the points didn't erode and the gap stayed constant, (if you put a smear of grease on the heel).
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I had a transistor assisted points unit that I moved from car to car
I had a home built one of those - Inverter +triac discharging a large capacitor, the spark from a coventional coil was frightenly blue - you kept well away from it!
Start almost anything in all weathers.
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>> I had a transistor assisted points unit
Surely that qualifies as cheating?!
Next you'll be replacing weights on the ends of 2 different types of spring for ignition advance with an ECU map ;-)
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>> >> I had a transistor assisted points unit
>>
>> Surely that qualifies as cheating?!
>>
>> Next you'll be replacing weights on the ends of 2 different types of spring for
>> ignition advance with an ECU map ;-)
>>
Cutting edge technology in its day, sonny. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 15:44
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>> After you've spent half an hour adjusting the points to get it to start :).>>
As others have pointed out Rattle, nonsense...:-)
Yes, the points did need minor emery papering every few thousand miles, but hardly hard work, plus topping up the SU carb oil occasionally.
The HT leads were coated to prevent the ingress of water (can't remember if it was the spray plastic coating or Waxoyl in this instance) and the Morris would fire up readily whatever the weather.
With the car's wheels housed right in the corners, it proved a very stable and chuckable motor on snow and ice and a flick of the wheel would immediately control an occasional skid, even those deliberately provoked for some practice on our town's then quiet, very wide sea wall road.
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You're all wimps:)
Try setting the three sets of points on a GT380 and getting them all to sing in tune.
I was the only Mum in our village who could do that and I got loads of street cred from the local 16 year olds:)
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 16:55
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The point is wasted here. The point is that even twenty years ago most drivers didn't have a clue what to do with cars. I remember my grandad knew a bit and he was like our break down service and would often rescue the Lada when it failed to start due to a very simple fault.
Now with the electronic stuff how often do they fail? I had to replace the MAF on the Corsa which I diagnosed and replaced myself with the help of some on here (aka Bellboy).
Other than that they work flawlessy. My dads Fiesta for example has hit 90k now still on the original HT leads and coil pack and it dosn't miss a beat. If it had an old fashioned dizzy it would need temperating with every 6k probably.
I know modern computers mean cars are harder to fix but they do go wrong a lot less. I know ECUs can fail but it is very rare. With all bangers we have had it is the bodywork or the engine itself which has failed not the electronics.
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>> I know modern computers mean cars are harder to fix but they do go wrong
>> a lot less. I know ECUs can fail but it is very rare. With all
>> bangers we have had it is the bodywork or the engine itself which has failed
>> not the electronics.
I agree. And if the electronics go wrong it is normally down to quality of components and connections and their location e.g. ecu's in the scuttle area in the previous VW Polo where the scuttle drains could block with leaves, fill the bulkhead with water and drown the ECU if the drains were not regularly cleared out, or the heating/ventilation PCB's situated right in the path of moist air in the trunking of Jag XJ40'S causing corrosion of the tracks.
My climate control unit started misbehaving, so I found some details on the web, removed it from the car, sent it away to a guy in Cornwall who replaced a capacitor that's known to fail after time, and who sent it back to me. Total cost? About £40.
Last edited by: corax on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 18:49
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Even with ECUs half the time it is simply caused by failing capacitors too. They can be fixed quite easily by anybody know is good with a soldering iron.
I would hope that they use solid state capacitors in ECUs now as they are a bit more reliable.
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There's a company called BBA Reman who's business is based on the repair of automotive components in cars, including ECU's. I've never got to the stage where I've had to use them, but I should imagine they are on to a nice little earner considering how many people would like to avoid the main dealer/replace everything until it works route and save money(once the car is out of warranty).
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>>The point is wasted here. The point is that even twenty years ago most drivers didn't have a clue what to do with cars. I remember my grandad knew a bit and he was like our break down service and would often rescue the Lada when it failed to start due to a very simple fault.>>
After the war we had an Austin 7 and I can clearly recall my father, a top class engineer, heating up the spark plugs in the oven before putting them back in the Austin, during periods of weather similar to now.
He had all sorts of other tricks up his sleeve if necessary, but that usually eventually got the car going...:-)
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>> >> I had a transistor assisted points unit
Me too.
"Magtor" (Manchester based?) as memory serves... capacitor discharge though the coil... a different method of operation, compared to points.
It was hard work for the capacitor. IME they didn't last too long.
One of the few occasions I've ground to a shuddering halt at the side of the motoway was caused by that box of tricks.
Took a few minutes to restore it to normal points operation and continue home.
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According to google is a 1970's sports bike. A Suzuki.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 19:20
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I grew up maintaining the cars of the 1950s and 1960s.
Horrible, unreliable, badly designed rubbish.. Adjusting the rear brakes on a Mini after a few years' rust was a real pia. Resetting the throttles on a Triumph 2500 fuel injection when they were worn was impossible. Setting points by comparison was easy.
In the past 10 years - after no company cars - I have serviced modern cars, even both sons' older ones. Simple electronics diagnostics made solving the only electrical issues - a failed ABS sensor - a doddle.
Of course, I have never owned a Renault or I would be filling a book with electrical issues..Nor a Mercedes from 95 to 2005 or it would be rust and gearbox and electronics and ...
Well designed and built modern cars are a joy... providing you have a competent garage maintaining them..
Last edited by: madf on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 19:48
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My friends got a top spec Clio with climate control and electric everything. It hasn't been serviced for 30,000 miles (but it was finally done last week) it is on 80k now and there hasn't been a single electrical problem in the 50k or so she has owned the car.
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Apropos the thread title, they certainly are. I'd hate to have to go back to my first car, which was made in 1936. In fact I'd hate to have to go back to all of the cars I've owned that were made before about the year 2000.
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I think that one of the big factors is that cars are now designed for a global market and not just the home market. This makes the manufacturers build cars that will work in cold, wet, hot enviroments equaly as well.
I have one colleague who has broken down in this cold. She has a diesel corsa with 100K on it and the alternator went. She tells me that even though she does 20K a year in it she hasnt had it serviced in the 4 years she has had it, and the battery light had been coming on for the last 6 weeks so she was kind of expecting something to give up.....Just goes to show how much abuse they can take
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ARGH! Sounds like she had plenty of warning, why do people wait till their cars break down until they can get them fixed? It is one thing the aux belt snapping and causing a flat battery but if she has had the warning light on for months and just ignoed it!.
I thought my dad was pretty bad at this but he would never ignore the battery light. He would also know what it means.
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Not quite as bad as the folk who use their oil pressure warning light as an oil level warning.
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People who ignore warning signs of mechanical issues deserve to be stranded by the roadside. No excuses because handbooks tell you what the lights mean or at the very least, that you should act should they come on.
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I agree that she should have done something but she is recently divorced and hard up so I guess in terms of priority it was pretty low down the list.
I was quite surprised by mr Mrs this week - told me that her car sounded different, but now sounds OK again???? Quite impressed by her mechanical perception - bet she left the handbrake on or something :-)
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One reason I and perhaps Rattle in his old car days spend money on fixing our old cars is to avoid breakdowns which generally are more expensive than just fixing the problem.
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Nobody deserves to be stranded. None of my mates are remotely interested in cars, my two closest friends probably couldn't open the bonnet of their cars. It's not everybody's cup of tea. I wouldn't call the washing machine guy until there was smoke and flames pouring out of the back of it.
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A washing machine doesnt transport you at 70 mph. It also wont leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere.
I dont understand my central heating, so I pay a man to come round once a year and ensure its all ok. Thats because its a bit of an issue without hot water in the house.
Ignorance about how a car works is fine, but neglect is stupidity unless you like rather like breaking down.
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You're thinking of buying a clapped out fibreglass death trap so do you deserve to be paralysed in a low speed shunt?
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...You're thinking of buying a clapped out fibreglass death trap...
Harsh, but fair.
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I take responsibility for my choices yes, I know its not fashionable these days.
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>> Nobody deserves to be stranded. None of my mates are remotely interested in cars, my
>> two closest friends probably couldn't open the bonnet of their cars. It's not everybody's cup
>> of tea. I wouldn't call the washing machine guy until there was smoke and flames
>> pouring out of the back of it.
But if you were stuck in the middle of Rannoch Moor with a breakdown in the middle of winter and it was based on neglect, you've only got yourself to blame. A washing machine isn't going to get you stuck in the middle of nowhere.
My dad knows nothing about cars and doesn't want to, he sees them as boxes on wheels, but he know's that it will benefit him financially and from a reliability point of view if the thing is serviced properly.
Edit - Sorry Stu, it seems great minds think alike :-)
Last edited by: corax on Wed 8 Dec 10 at 19:18
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But it is a safety issue and drivers need to be aware of when their vehicle may break down even if they have no idea how to fix it. The battery warning light and oil preasure lamps are the two most basic warning lights that something is wrong.
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They still don't deserve to be stranded. Not even the pricks who are about to spent a second night in their cars because they were trying to cross Scotland without preparing their cars with proper tyres.
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Hey, I married a cheating woman and indeed she cheated on me. I knew she might as she had done it before. I still went ahead anyway. Not really her fault though, she did what was expected, in the same way that a car owner who neglects their car should well expect it to break down.
I signed up for potentially being cheated on just like someone who willingly neglects their car signs up for breakdowns. I should have known better and so should car owners.
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She tells me that even though she does 20K a year in it she hasnt had it serviced in the 4 years
So it's done 80k with no oil change? I don't think so.
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>> She tells me that even though she does 20K a year in it she hasnt
>> had it serviced in the 4 years
>>
>> So it's done 80k with no oil change? I don't think so.
>>
I know a couple of people who run cars for three years without a service, and then buy a new one.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 9 Dec 10 at 16:48
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If there is any oil left after not been burnt or leaked it will be like tar.
80k is a hell of a lot of miles with no oil change, air filter and the rest will be blocked.
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My ex got away with 40k but I did top up the oil a few times inbetween. It was running at 50mph max on the motorway. A service last week cured all the problems.
We have stopped oil changes on the Fiesta now as its rotting away, it has done 90k and is ready for the scrappy so we are not spending a penny more on it until MOT time or unless a sefety issue arises. The suspension and brakes have all been entirely replaced and only the shocks and springs are original in terms of the suspension but they still seem to be in great working order.
We have never had it serviced in the 30k and three years we have had the car for. I did get it oil changed each year and I do replace the air filter every year myself. The plugs were replaced a couple of years ago. I just do a quick visual check under the bonnet every so often as well as checking levels.
On an old banger like that it seems the best way, we have spent £250 on repairs since in a year. That includes new pads, discs (not for the MOT as apart of my inspections and driving it), new pollen filter (myself) and welding for the MOT. We are just going to keep it until the rust gets so bad it is not worth fixing or the engine completly dies.
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>> She tells me that even though she does 20K a year in it she hasnt
>> had it serviced in the 4 years
>>
>> So it's done 80k with no oil change? I don't think so.
>>
Bigtee - she was married back then so it possible that hubby took care of it at some poing, but I do really believe that it has covered a lot of miles with no servicing.
When the garage replaced the alternator she told me they ticked her off for her lack of attention and made her have an engine flush and oil change. Said they made her feel like a naughty school girl :-)
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I once ( very cheaply mind you ) bought a then 18 month old Mondeo 1.8 diesel estate with 85 thousand miles on it. It had never been to a garage other than for tyres since it rolled off the forecourt. A sales rep's car, he'd never let the engine go cold more or less. I had it serviced and ran it for another two years or so without any problems. Never did get around to changing the cambelt either. I probably wouldn't do it again but I certainly got away with it that time.
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Ex Husband what a guy he serviced the car at least!!
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I don't understand the mentality of people who say "They don't make cars like they used to."
I say "Thank goodness for that."
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Modern cars simply amazing - R.P.
