As previously mentioned, my next car, probably next year at some point, will probably be a SUV type vehicle.
Any owners of 4WD versions of Kuga, ix35, Sportage, Mitsi ASX etc like to give their feedback on how the car has performed in the snow? Have you used your 4WD, has it made a difference etc?
Also interested if there is any control over the 4wd or is it purely automatic, kicking in as and when the computers decide its needed?
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 5 Dec 10 at 18:18
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Qashqai 4wd auto diesel. Outstandingly good even on normal tyres. Recommended.
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I think for most SUVs (which just have viscous coupling), kicking of 4WD is computer controlled (only when wheelslip detected).
True 4WDs will allow to manually engage 4WD.
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X1 - been fine - no worries, tyres are not quite right for the stuff the CRV could do on its standard M&S tyres - not spending 1100 on winter tyres though !
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Humph when is your car due to be changed....... one careful owner??????
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Well, funnily enough, I was in a board meeting yesterday and a minor discussion point was my new car which is/was due after Christmas. I ( half jokingly ) said I'd rather keep the one I've got for a bit longer and take the money. Much to my surprise they said "OK then"...Bit of a result really.
:-)
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What reg is yours - is it th enew "10" shape or older? I had a new shape as a courtesy car a while back and was mightily impressed by it, not sure if the older shape is just as good?
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Mine is the earlier model. Not driven a "new" one. I think they probably look a bit nicer though. It's just a very easy car to live with. No ball of fire but it is just very competent.
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Subaru Outback diesel, manual with Nokian winter tyres - no problems so far, touch wood. Managed to find some deserted snowy and icy roads and was impressed with how quick I could accelerate with no wheelspin and how hard you have to gun it to get the back to break away when turning. The Subaru is permanent all wheel drive so there's no impression of any power transfer to 4wd in straight ahead driving and pulling away. There is though when the computers start applying brakes to spinning wheels (aka vehicle stability control I think) to bring the car back in line when the back end starts to break away. No high low ratio which would be good but crawling down a snow packed hill at tickover in first with foot off the accelerator and brake worked well - sort of poor man's Hill Descent Control.
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>> The Subaru is permanent all wheel drive
>>
There's a YouTube video where the cars with part-time 4WD using centre viscous diffs are hopeless once any of the wheels start spinning - Honda CRV was particularly bad.
The Subaru they tested worked even if only a single wheel could get traction.
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>> There's a YouTube video where the cars with part-time 4WD using centre viscous diffs are
>> hopeless once any of the wheels start spinning - Honda CRV was particularly bad.
>>
Cobblers.
CRVs do not have a viscous centre diff, or indeed any centre diff, nor any viscous coupling other than in the auto boxes.
And they work rather well on snowy roads.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 3 Dec 10 at 15:37
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I was wondering that - mine never gave any bother last winter.
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>> I was wondering that - mine never gave any bother last winter.
>>
A lot of that will be tyre related though - CRVs have M&S tyres as standard fit.
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>> >> I was wondering that - mine never gave any bother last winter.
>> >>
>> A lot of that will be tyre related though - CRVs have M&S tyres as
>> standard fit.
>>
Are you on a mission to rubbish the CRV, making statements as fact that are supposition and therefore add no value at all? Worse, you may mislead people searching for useful information. Maybe it was even a US video - they have a 2WD as well as a 4WD version of the CRV.
Yes, the CRV is usually fitted with appropriate tyres - like these that I am on my second set of -
www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-latitude-tour-hp
Not exactly tractor tyres. M+S marked, but described as "road orientated".
In the last lot of snow I dodged the traffic blocked main routes and took to minor snow covered roads for several days commuting. Including this road
goo.gl/8ERYc
over the scarp of the Chilterns (it's a proper hill, Beacon Road at Ivinghoe if you know it). I wasn't aware of more than a momentary wheel slip. Yes it is my car, and yes I did venture into the virgin-snow covered car park on the left for no good reason at all.
The car has VSA and therefore traction control which might help. Is that cheating as well?
I'm not recommending it as an alternative to an off roader with three diff locks, but I'm very happy with it at the moment ;-)
The defence rests.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 3 Dec 10 at 18:53
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>> The car has VSA and therefore traction control which might help. Is that cheating as
>> well?
>>
Actually that would tend to get in the way.
You seem very touchy on this subject?
I like the CRV - but any type of 4WD system would be better than 2WD and M&S tyres willl be better than summer tyres, so it's already 2 steps better than a normal car.
What I'm suggesting is that there's a big difference between the part-time 4WD systems and the full-time systems you get on something like a Subaru.
This is the clip I was thinking of: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw
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>> >> The car has VSA and therefore traction control which might help. Is that cheating
>> as
>> >> well?
>> >>
>> Actually that would tend to get in the way.
Perhaps you can explain that statement - I imagine braking a spinning wheel forces torque to the opposite wheel and should help, but I am not stating that as a fact, it's merely my supposition.
>> You seem very touchy on this subject?
If you say so. The OP asked for experiences with SUVs in the snow. I'm just correcting the misleading impression you have given in a post containing information which is plain wrong (centre differentials et cetera) and clearly not based on experience. I have related actual experience and posted photographic evidence to support it.
>> I like the CRV - but any type of 4WD system would be better than
>> 2WD and M&S tyres willl be better than summer tyres, so it's already 2 steps
>> better than a normal car.
>>
>> What I'm suggesting is that there's a big difference between the part-time 4WD systems and
>> the full-time systems you get on something like a Subaru.
A bit more than that - hopeless was the word you used. The CRV is far from hopeless.
>> This is the clip I was thinking of: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw
I don't really know what to make of that Subaru dealer ad. I'm quite happy to believe Subarus are better than Hondas at climbing ramps with rollers on, but whatever it means it doesn't seem to stop my venerable CRV dragging itself around in the snow.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 3 Dec 10 at 21:25
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>> CRVs do not have a viscous centre diff, or indeed any centre diff, nor any
>> viscous coupling other than in the auto boxes.
>>
I must have the terminology wrong, but they will have some system of temporarily providing power to the rear wheels when necessary.
Wish I could find the clip.
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>> I must have the terminology wrong, but they will have some system of temporarily providing
>> power to the rear wheels when necessary.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CR-V
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I've had the old Vitara in 4WD since we got more snow. As i said in the other thread, she wouldn't move on the sheet ice but I guess not much would....it's all down to tyre grip.
Bit grumbly during low speed parking but its old technology.
Glad of the chance to use it, though....keeps the drive supple..
Ted
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Glad of the chance to use it, though....keeps the drive supple..
>
>>>> dont let itinerants do da drive next time then
get real men in
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>> >>>> dont let itinerants do da drive next time then
>> get real men in
>>
Very good BB. You should be on the stage !
Preferably the next one out of town ! :-)
Ted
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No problem with the other half's 1998 RAV4 (3-door). Permanent 4WD, but she's never had to use the diff lock in eight years!
To be fair, not much snow so far around Cambridge - but it performed fine last winter.
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I have been out having snow fun in my iDtec Auto CRV and it has been brilliant. I even helped an AA patrol van on a very slippery incline by attaching a rope to the tow-bar and helping him up the hill.
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Freelander2 auto, in snow mode fanastic, the only challenge is finding somewhere it won't go!
last year was great fun in the snow, hill decent control & snow mode outstanding on a very steep hill in the snow. Does what it says on the tin!
In normal 4wd you can spin a wheel up but in snow mode the electronics control every wheel all the time!
proper job!
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No starting problems with it this cold snap doc ?
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Anything with 4WD whether selectable or not will be reasonable though those on excessively wide summer slicks...X5's, RR Sports etc won't be.
Put proper tyres on them and they'll be excellent.
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Hi Pugugly, nope fires on the button without the chance of even turning over and over, -13 spot on , just carfull with the wipers when they freeze.
Also just average 37.5 on a 300 miles run which for an auto I though was brilliant. Didn't go over 65mph but it was pleasant.
The four wheel drive system comes into its own with landrover and compared to an X5 absolutly no comparison whatsoever. Infact my mate who has just bought a new X5 admits its a waste in the snow, his actual words began with an S and finished with a "T"
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>> Infact my mate who has just bought a new X5
>> admits its a waste in the snow, his actual words began with an S and
>> finished with a "T"
>>
It's tyres again though, isn't it?
There's a picture of a RangeRover being towed out of the muddy car park at Silverstone a few years ago. OK, driver competence could play a part, but on summer tyres they're almost as useless as everything else.
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Question for Manatee and others.
My lad recently bought a very highly specced manual Diesel CRV...04 plate i think.
Couple of times he's really gunned it from a standstill and (still smarting from the bill to replace 3rd gear and associated damage again on the Scooby) isn't going to do it too often..he describes a real expensive sounding/feeling thud from the transmission as the extra driven axle engages presumably.
Does that seem normal to you or indeed anyone else who's owned one of these.
I won't try to describe what that Scooby has to put up with suffice it's had the entire 3rd gear competely ripped off twice...he gets it from his mother..;)
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There was nothing to mark the transition from 2x4 to 4x4 in my old CRV - could pull out of side roads, garages etc in the wet with zero drama...
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>> There was nothing to mark the transition from 2x4 to 4x4 in my old CRV
>> -
Ah thanks PU, has he been and gorn and done it again, i'm not telling him.
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On a really slippy surface you can feel the RWD kick in on the Squashy in so far as it switches from a natural tendency to understeer through neutral handling to a bit of oversteer if you really start to take the mickey.
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>> in so far as it switches from a natural tendency to understeer through neutral handling
>> to a bit of oversteer
That sounds like the potential for some seriously quick ground covering fun, does it bite you on the backside if you have to change your mind halfway round the bend...not suggesting you might be as little as halfway mind..;)
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Oh you know the deal GB. If you've commited, keep right on...
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>> On a really slippy surface you can feel the RWD kick in on the Squashy
>> in so far as it switches from a natural tendency to understeer through neutral handling
>> to a bit of oversteer if you really start to take the mickey.
>>
Does the system work at speed too?
That could have nasty consequences - there's a post either here or on the HJ forum from someone whose SUv swapped ends on the M6 Toll. He put it down to worn rear tyres, but the drive system detecting slip and putting power to the rear wheels at the same time probably would assist in spinning the car.
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SUv swapped ends on the M6 Toll. He put it down
>> to worn rear tyres, but the drive system detecting slip and putting power to the
>> rear wheels at the same time probably would assist in spinning the car.
>>
It would BP but you'd either need the bravado of a F1 driver or the reactions of someone dead not to feel that sickening anti gyroscop feeling when somethings going wrong and not lift off the pedal.
The throttle does have varying amounts of input, though as we often see some think it's an on/off switch.
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>> It would BP but you'd either need the bravado of a F1 driver or the
>> reactions of someone dead not to feel that sickening anti gyroscop feeling when
>> somethings going wrong and not lift off the pedal.
>>
That's true. Not many people would be able to drift around a bend on a motorway!
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>>Couple of times he's really gunned it from a standstill
I suspect that's the problem. The 4WD system is pretty basic really. There are two hydraulic pumps, one driven off the gearbox and the other off the rear diff. When all the wheels are revolving at more or less the same speed, they cancel each other out. Should a front wheel(s) spin, the gearbox-driven pump overpowers the rear-diff-driven one and the multiplate wet clutch in the rear diff engages the rear wheel drive.
It follows that if this happens suddenly and with a lot of front wheel spin and high revs, it's all going to happen with a bit of a bang. The only time I've really felt anything clunky is with unexpected wheelspin, such as a hill start on a wet surface - there's the start of that familiar wheelspin and then a perceptible jerk as the rear tyres bite.
On a slippery surface like snow or wet grass, if you're sensibly being gentle with the accelerator, the engagement is almost imperceptible.
I wouldn't be happy doing drag starts with the CRV. Given how it works, it's probably no better for the the drive train than giving it full revs and moving your foot sideways off the clutch pedal - something else that I wouldn't do.
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Thanks MT, i know i only get the edited highlights and i know what he expects of his cars so the drag start is probably what's been happening, quite why i don't know.
I've never owned a clever 4x4, mostly been selectable or old fashioned full time eg RR CSK.
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>> unexpected wheelspin, such as a hill start on a wet surface - there's the start of that
>> familiar wheelspin and then a perceptible jerk as the rear tyres bite.
>>
I guess that's the fundamental disadvantage with these systems - there's got to be slippage of the front wheels before the rears can be asked to join in.
>> On a slippery surface like snow or wet grass, if you're sensibly being gentle with
>> the accelerator, the engagement is almost imperceptible.
>>
The same process as above must take place, but the slippery surface and low speed would tend to dampen the effect.
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>> >> unexpected wheelspin, such as a hill start on a wet surface - there's the
>> start of that
>> >> familiar wheelspin and then a perceptible jerk as the rear tyres bite.
>> >>
>> I guess that's the fundamental disadvantage with these systems - there's got to be slippage
>> of the front wheels before the rears can be asked to join in.
>>
That's an interesting point isn't it? Do you try to take an aspirin before you get the headache? What you really want as well as VSA, ESPT, ETC, DSC and ABS is CBS (Crystal Ball System) so that the 4WD engages just before the slippage would otherwise occur.
The Freelander 2 (sort of) does that - because the customised 3rd generation Haldex will always send torque to the rear wheels when setting off, so pre-empting the slip. Clever old Haldex.
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>> That's an interesting point isn't it? Do you try to take an aspirin before you
>> get the headache?
Well, I certainly do before flying. :)
>> What you really want as well as VSA, ESPT, ETC, DSC and
>> ABS is CBS (Crystal Ball System) so that the 4WD engages just before the slippage
>> would otherwise occur.
>>
Or.. you could have it manually lockable.
Interesting to read about the CRV in US forums - they absolutely rave about its capability in snow. I would expect that though, especially in nice soft "proper" snow. It's ice where I reckon it (and other similar technology vehicles) would stuggle.
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As a chap who appears to know his onions Manatee how do these part time 4x4 systems cope with transmission wind up. If a vehicle spends say 90% of it's time in FWD mode and has to switch from almost cream crackered front tyres to split between cream crackered front tyres and almost factory fresh rears how does it cope ?
I forget which make it was 4wheel drive system used to suffer from this, has it been fixed now ?
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>> As a chap who appears to know his onions Manatee
Not sure about that - I'm just curious about how my car works!
>>how do these part time
>> 4x4 systems cope with transmission wind up.
In the CRV, the rear drive is only engaged when the front wheels are slipping, so there's no wind up. When they stop slipping, the dual-pump clutch disengages so again no wind up. Of course there's slippage in the dual-pumo clutch as well while it's transferring torque. They seem pretty reliable though.
>>If a vehicle spends say 90% of it's
>> time in FWD mode and has to switch from almost cream crackered front tyres to
>> split between cream crackered front tyres and almost factory fresh rears how does it cope
>> ?
Forget tyre wear for a second. When the car corners, the front wheels go further than the rears (except Humph's maybe), so anything with permanent or selectable 4WD has the potential to wind up the transmission unless something is done about it. The LR Defender has permanent 4WD but has a centre diff, so no problem (the diff can be locked off road if required).
In my Series Land Rover, there is no centre diff, so normal mode is RWD. If you were to use 4WD on road, then whenever you corner, regardless of tyre size, you will get serious wind up and lots of wear. You might even break a rear half shaft (the weakest link, and relatively easy to replace) but that won't stop wear everywhere else before it goes. The only way to avoid this sort of damage is to reserve 4WD for slippery conditions or when you're stuck. With this sort of car, there is always a degree of undesirable stress and wear when 4WD is in use. Different sized tyres just make this worse, as there's wind up even when the car is going in a straight line.
Part time 4WD and AWD can mean a variety of things and there are numerous solutions. Freelander 1, nominally permanent 4WD, as far as I know used a viscous coupling between the front and rear (no centre diff). With little difference in rotational speed between front and rear, almost no torque is transferred. When there is slippage at the front, then more torque is transferred to the rear. Where fitted, TC is used to manage the torque across axles by braking a slipping wheel. A known problem with Freelanders was the seizing of this coupling which caused wind up and high tyre wear. Again this would be made worse by different sized tyres.
Freelander II is different, and AFAIK uses a developed Haldex hydraulically operated wet clutch centre coupling which is computer controlled. It can transfer significant torque almost immediately on command if a very small slip angle is detected (by the TC system), or it can allow a smaller amount of torque. It can also be pre-emptively engaged for setting off (all ECU controlled of course) I don't know how the wind up is managed - either by slip in the clutch that is part of this set up or a viscous coupling element, maybe Injection Doc knows more about the system?
>> I forget which make it was 4wheel drive system used to suffer from this, has
>> it been fixed now ?
I don't recall a specific vehicle being known for wind up issues though many Series Land Rovers must have been abused in this way inadvertently or through ignorance.
It seems to me that it's always a good idea to use tyres of the same brand and degree of wear on front and rear on any type of 4WD because at the very least the system will work better as designed, and no slippage will be needed when travelling in a straight line. Maybe that's a simplistic view based on my non-technical understanding.
As usual, E&OE. I'm not any kind of expert on this.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 4 Dec 10 at 10:41
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>> I don't recall a specific vehicle being known for wind up issues though many Series
>> Land Rovers must have been abused in this way inadvertently or through ignorance.
Good post MT, it's amazing just how many people have not got a clue about the importance of a centre diff, and try to drive round semi permanently in 4WD with it locked.
Even if not used in anger i've always engaged the front axle drive and hub locks if fitted when conditions permit to allow gear oils to be fed around the working parts and the more obvious reason to keep the bits working freely for when needed.
People are odd, they spend umpteen thousands on a vehicle that will cost hundreds if not thousands to repair but can't be bothered to learn how to use it properly or do they assume that if the TG crew can blast willy nilly over craters and bog then the vehicle is designed for it nay craves it like some military ATV.
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My Audi 90 Quattro had permanent 4 wheel drive with centre and rear diff locks. It was such an elegant design, with the centre diff incorporated within the main gearbox and no extra propshafts. When I look at the part time systems now, it looks like overkill in my car, but Audi themselves changed to a torque sensing centre diff in the later cars. The advantage these have is that there are no electronics so no potential for the system to fail.
With the diffs locked on the road, it's a great demonstration of how diffs normally work, as you can hardly get them round a corner amid all the tyre squealing.
I didn't realise that the series Landrovers had no centre diff, thanks Manatee.
Last edited by: corax on Sat 4 Dec 10 at 11:34
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My favourite 4WD in snow was always a petrol Series 2a Land Rover when locked in 4WD. Wind up is not an issue when it's very slippery and there was such a direct relationship between your throttle foot and what the vehicle would do.
In theory later vehicles like the Defender, Discovery and a Subaru Estate should have been more advanced but none felt as safe when the chips were down.
Note: In the interest of accuracy must say the recircularing heater on the 2a was... well hardly a heater at all.
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...hardly a heater at all...
A heater in a Land Rover?
Luxury.
Ours had what I think was an optional extra fan heater bolted to the transmission tunnel.
It was made by Smiths and switching it on was achieved by plugging a wire into the accessory socket on the dash.
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>>>Ours had what I think was an optional extra fan heater bolted to the transmission tunnel. It was made by Smiths and switching it on was achieved by plugging a wire into the accessory socket on the dash.
Yep that was the one ours had... except we had the de-luxe version hard wired with a switch. Fug stirer we called it.
As they were a stand alone device you sometimes found a second plumbed in behind the front seats for the benefit of anyone daft enough to ride in the back.
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Pah, softies with their heaters.
My 2a was a full canvas top ex WD, no heater and enough gaps that one really wouldn't have made much difference, winter like this one too.
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For those wondering what we are on about, this is the type of heater in our Land Rover:
www.landroversonly.com/forums/f7/smith-heaters-sale-restored-30885/
Sticking out of the top there were a couple of flexible pipes about 1" in diameter routed to the screen or demisting purposes.
To push air through those, you shut the semi-circular blanking plates at the front of the heater.
There were two, shutting one gave some cabin heat and some demist, shutting both gave full demist.
Clever, eh?
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Thank you for your reply Manatee and the others for their input. I've never owned a 4wd as I have never had the need but always had a passing interest in how they work, the theory side anyway.
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 4 Dec 10 at 12:27
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CRV petrol auto on Michelin Latitudes (all-weather type pattern - not a true winter tyre) had no difficulty on the snow in January. The part time 4wd is indeed imperceptible noise-wise in normal driving, but on slippy roads when giving a little extra beef (just to see how it copes of course...) you do feel the back start to push and there would be potential for oversteer if you drive like a moron.
Mk2 Forester turbo - no problem in snow at all on standard Geolanders (another all-weather type boot). No low ratio gears so best to keep rolling along at 8+ mph and avoid 2.5k+ rpm to keep the turbo off-song. Managed to get stuck on untouched snow that was over 12" deep (ground clearance only 8") but dug out under tyres with a spade and reversed back along the track I came along.
Remeber, if you're in a Jimny or a Defender on winter tyres, when you do eventually get stuck you're SOOL for anyone reaching you...
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>>>in a Jimny or a Defender on winter tyres, *when* you do eventually get stuck
If!
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Drove to a wee farm shop/cafe near Aberlady in East Lothian this afternoon - saw a Jimny out on the beach.
6 inches of snow on top of the sand shows a degree of confidence*
Probably one of the guys who goes sailboarding in winter with a surfboard and a giant kite.
*foolhardiness/lunacy
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There was a photo of a recent disco in the hedge on the telegraph web-site last week, just remember that all 4wd does is help you get going, the additional weight can make corners and stopping more difficult!
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Out of all the 4wd systems available just now...
I reckon 4th gen Haldex seems the best bet coupled with the newer version of ESP (the one that includes turning the wheel for the driver in extreme situations where the plonker has failed to correct by themselves).
That'll help with the steering (it diverts torque to the outside rear and brakes the inside front) and stopping too.
The agricultural approach of 3 x difflocks isn't as good anymore versus electrickery. Although there is less to go wrong.
Controversial? ;-)
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Bobby
dont forget doggy now, Height of the rear hatch needs to be taken into account. YOu need a flat floor (not a deep well) for the dog to land on when jumping in and to leap out of.
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Listen Zero if it doesn't start sleeping soon that will become the Dog's Trust's issue!!!!! :)
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Friend at work has a disco 3 - no problems earlier in the year in the snow. His BIL moved out into the sticks and decided that he needed an SUV so purchased...............a Tiguan. He was quite excited about the snow until he got stuck about 200 yards from his house. £25K well spent not
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It's strange how snow clearance of the pavement or sidewalk is considered the responsibility of the house or shop owner in the US ( the most litigious country on earth surely), Canada and most Northern European countries but the British are reluctant to lift a shovel to help their fellow man.
Mr Cameron's big society has a way to go
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I am on my 6 month medical treatment and do not drive very far - good weather or appalling as it has been here for nigh on 2 weeks of snow.
X-trail tyres - 3/4 mm on fronts 6/7 on back
Do I -
1) Swap fronts and backs?
2) Buy 1 tyre and use the spare? to give 2 x brand new tyres up front
3) Forget about doing anything - mileage might only be 200/300 / month for the next 5 months or so
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On my Outback I've been told to rotate/switch the tyres to try and keep wear equal across all the tyres as anything more than 1/4 inch difference in rolling circumference can potentially cause problems further down the line with the awd drivetrain. I'm not sure if this would apply to your X-Trail but as you're only at 1/8th of an inch difference, option 3 looks favourite!
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This could lead to a dilemma, as mentioned at the beginning , I fancy a 4WD for my next car.
However last winter I was never stuck once, today I drove home in my normal tyred FWD and never got stuck either.
So any chance of "justifying" it may be going out the window so I might just need to resort to "cos that's what I want right!!!
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Regardless of what you drive, the conditions last night meant you could not get home in any vehicle. Forget tyre choice. The roads were closed weren't they?
A colleague used to have a Land Rover LWB but soon realised he still could not get to destinations etc. The idiots in front of him were stuck and therefore so was he.
I think winter tyres make more of a difference but the last few days would defeat everything normal people drive.
So tell her what you want! I pointed out a few cars recently and the one SWMBO liked most was the A5. I then ruled it out on cost. At the weekend I mentioned cars and she said you want the Audi next.... I mention costs to me etc.... I point out an A4 on Saturday for an opinion and it was 'okay' and then a few minutes later an A5 appeared. That was liked a lot.
My point from the rambling above is there might not be the logic you expect. If I said the A5 was the car I wanted next year I know my wife would like it too. And getting a but ugly Skoda to save a few quid is probably pointless! But I need to check that last point!!!
If I had a point it would be to get what you want.
After joking I'd buy an Aston Martin last year, my birthday present was a drive an AM experience. To be booked for Spring 2011.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 8 Dec 10 at 00:26
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From the DT
tinyurl.com/2wu8emv
Snowy conditions trigger huge rise in demand for 4X4s
The number of searches for "all terrain" vehicles jumped by 41 per cent from October to November 2010 according to analysis by Autotrader.co.uk.
The follows a" breakdown" of searches by geographic region of the enquirer.
One surprise to me was "In Jersey the number of searches for 4X4s rose by 91 per cent "
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On the few occasions I have visited Stockholm in the winter the taxi drivers seem to get anywhere with their studded tyres fitted to their Volvo's and Saabs. They can drive on the snow and ice as normal.
On my first visit if frightened the hell out of me as I could not believe we would not crash going around the corners so quickly.
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Rob, understand what you are saying - coincidentally my colleague has an A5 and I had to lie down in the snow and ice yesterday and pull some sort of undertray off it that ran down the passenger side underneath it.
The front had fallen down and was acting like a snowplough! Hers is 4WD although obviously very low but its helpful trying to get away from traffic lights etc when there is a slight incline.
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You need a FWD to get out into the wild country for dog walks. You have a Labrador retriever a dog designed for the shooting party, hence you need a fwd
Seeemples < makes meercat noise >
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Thats fine, the puppy is definitely a great leverage tool just now although to be honest the missus is quite happy for me to get a 4WD next time (she doesnt understand about winter tyres etc....)
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>>anything more than 1/4 inch difference in rolling circumference can potentially cause problems further down the line with the awd drivetrain.
1/4" rolling radius maybe...which would equate to c. 6mm difference in tread depth on similar tyres.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 8 Dec 10 at 11:40
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Stopped on one of Cannock Chase's car parks this morning to get some snaps of the trees covered in frost. Very slippery, hard to walk around without falling.
Guy in a 4x4 had a similar idea, we left at about the same time, first time I have seen a stationary 4x4 with all four wheels rotating.
The FWD skoda just pulled away as I lifted my foot of the clutch gently, right foot not on accelerator.
It is the driver that matters more than the number of wheels driven.
The 4x4 was a BMW and the Skoda is on standard tyres - not M&S.
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...It is the driver that matters more than the number of wheels driven...
True, although it seems to me an X5 would lose traction on a crisp packet.
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A bit of a broadbrush statement iffy, worth reading Charlie Boorman's Race to Dakar - the team's X5 did quite well ! Although I do agree the X1 isn't as good as the CRV !
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...A bit of a broadbrush statement iffy..
They just seem to have very wide tyres, even by today's standards.
I've never seen a chunky tread on them, either.
More like semi-slicks, but perhaps those cars belong to owners who can't afford to renew the tyres in good time.
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X5's get a fair bit of stick, but to be fair to BMW, they don't market it as a Nissan Patrol or Toyota Landcruiser replacement.
It's an idiot proof 4x4. Whether it attracts numpties or not is another thing, but it does a good job of making 4x4 capabilities easy to use. Those capabilities aren't to the same level of a Landrover Discovery, but they are inherently better than a 2wd car with low ground clearance.
The X5 does very well (when properly shod) at making negotiating tougher conditions very easy, conditions not suitable for a 5 series say. There are no difflocks for the driver to make a hash of, no low ratio transfer box to get confused by.
Just as driving it on dry clear road, it's point and squirt in tougher conditions too. Very easy to drive, up to its limits -- no real change required in the drivers approach, until you get to the point where it's beyond it's limits.
There are no cool extras for extreme situations like the spare 2 inches of lift available on a range rover when it detects it's grounded, but that's not the point of the X5.
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"SUVs" in ths snow - Runfer D'Hills
