Brakes to slow, gears to go. That's what the Driver Training Academy recommended (admittedly in 2005), and that's what I've always done.
www.drivertrainingacademy.com/movingoff.htm
Does current tuition recommend otherwise?
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Ok, so we've had the left foot braking debate again, might as well do this too, I guess.
The handbook for my automatic/tiptronic Honda advises using lower gears to aid braking on steep hills and if you don't do it the car eventually does it for you. It's what I've always done and who am I to argue?
Many steep hills on French main roads also have large signs - often in several languages - advising the use of engine braking.
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Brake to an appropriate speed for the hazard, select the appropriate gear and accelerate away works for me. Engine braking is for extreme situations rarely seen on main roads and is used to reduce the likelyhood of brake fade, usually in HGVs.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 20 Nov 10 at 10:36
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In diesel trucks maybe try it yourself find a steephill and test it out.When crankshafts in cars were heavy it made sense but not anymore.
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In diesel trucks maybe try it yourself find a steephill and test it out.When crankshafts in cars were heavy it made sense but not anymore.
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I use my 4 speed automatic (3 + overdrive) manually when descending a hill,
I should know better really because brakes are a whole lot cheaper to replace than auto gearboxes.
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>> The handbook for my automatic/tiptronic Honda advises using lower gears to aid braking on steep
>> hills and if you don't do it the car eventually does it for you. It's
>> what I've always done and who am I to argue?
I think there's a difference between using gears to slow down, and using a lower gear that helps to maintain speed without (much) braking on a descent.
It it still very unwise in my opinion to rely solely on brakes for retardation on long or repeated descents - discs might be better than drums but they can still be abused to failure, as a colleague discovered with his heavily loaded Voyager in the Alps a few years ago.
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>> Ok, so we've had the left foot braking debate again, might as well do this
>> too, I guess.
I beg your pardon for being so boring!
:-D
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>> Does current tuition recommend otherwise?
>>
I don't think so, but then I'm going by my son's tuition which ended in 2005!
Downhill, where continuous braking would otherwise be necessary, I still prefer to hold a lower gear - to maintain rather than reduce speed.
That, and looking more than 50 yards ahead, probably explains why I am still on the original discs and pads after 88,000 miles (and the gearbox hasn't broken yet).
So, not using the gears to slow down doesn't mean hammering the brakes, cheap to replace or not (and I don't think they are at main dealer prices either).
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...Downhill, where continuous braking would otherwise be necessary, I still prefer to hold a lower gear - to maintain rather than reduce speed...
I did that at Carter Bar on the English/Scottish border.
It's a long downhill stretch and the diesel engine of my Focus hatch didn't half cough and splutter when I finally put some power on.
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leaving a motorway slip road i dab my brakes to make sure i still have them then let the engine/gearbox slow me down to the point until nearly stopped then use the brakes ,unless some twerp fills my safety gap
on normal roads i just try to plan aheads so usually need neither brakes or gearboxes to retard my movements
its all down to reading the road and judgement
:-)
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If I need the brakes I use them but, as others say, anticipation is all.
The 'lingo happily descended the Jura's cols at 35/40 in third with only minimal touches on the brakes needed. Like Bellboy I find I can loose most of the speed I need to on a motorway upslip just using the gradient.
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There's no excess wear to a gearbox used on the overrun versus used to drive. There's hardly any usable braking effect in anything past 2nd gear in any car i've driven.
In the days when gearboxes didn't comfortably last the life of the car, definitely cheaper to replace brake pads. In modern cars? Probably not as clear cut i'd guess.
A few folks i know say they use the gears to slow the car down, but all they're using is the clutch. I.e. 60mph, select 3rd, slowly letting the clutch out until the speed drops and / or the revs rise enough. That's got to be a bit mad.
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>> A few folks i know say they use the gears to slow the car down,
>> but all they're using is the clutch.
They shouldn't be slipping the clutch at all, blip the throttle engage clutch as the revs match and bingo.
Same as you would should the clutch cable snap or release bearing fail.
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>> Same as you would should the clutch cable snap or release bearing fail.
Interesting, i never asked how this works but always wondered. I once tried changing gear without clutch but it didn't work.
Actually i remember jumping in the golf one time, doing a driveway shuffle, straight from the BM (auto) and not using the clutch, it did go into first but stalled.
How do you get moving with a busted clutch cable? Will a car start in gear?
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>> How do you get moving with a busted clutch cable? Will a car start in
>> gear?
>>
Oh yes, well assuming it's not one of these 'the car knows best' types that won't allow the starter to turn unless many conditions are met.
Start it in first gear and mesh the gears with the correct revs for the next gearchange, much easier with a crash box mind.
She Who Must drove daughters 106 back from Coventry a few months ago at peak time sans clutch, so even a woman can do it...;)..........that's very tongue in cheek by the way She's a far more competent driver than i'll ever be.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sat 20 Nov 10 at 12:28
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I will occasionally drop a gear on the motorway if the gap in front closes unexpectedly and I need to lose a little speed without showing brake lights and setting off a chain of panic behind me.
Otherwise, I'm generally with BB and Brompto - engine braking is for maintaining speed rather than losing it. Anyone who's sat next to my F-in-L as he laboriously changes right through the box on a slip road or the approach to a roundabout won't need persuading.
There's one more exception, though, and it's a big one - and another old c4p chestnut. If you drive in town traffic at 30mph in fourth, every minor impediment means a dab of the brakes and a downshift to recover speed. In third at the same speed, all you have to do is lift off and engine braking takes care of everything, and a squeeze of the pedal gets you back to speed. Perhaps it doesn't count because it requires neither brakes nor gears, but it's the single best use of engine braking in everyday driving.
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>> Otherwise, I'm generally with BB and Brompto - engine braking is for maintaining speed rather
>> than losing it. >>
That's always been my style. An old rule of thumb I remember, which still seems to be broadly applicable, is to go down a hill in the same gear you would use to ascend it.
ie, the gear that lets you ascend at a comfortable speed without labouring the engine will also tend to be the gear that holds a constant speed on descent.
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Manual for the Yamaha FS1E apart from being written in very amusing English actually made that exact point.
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>> Manual for the Yamaha FS1E apart from being written in very amusing English actually made that exact point.
>>
Use engine braking for too long on a 2 stroke (oil pump feed lub system) and the engine will seize.
The oil pump was regulated by the throttle, coasting down hills on a closed throttle meant NO lubrication.....
....... BANG!!!!!!!
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The manual for the Fizzy was not assuming engine braking as such, more that the 16 year old pilot was wont to go as fast as possible down hills after having to crawl up. So the manual suggested you held the speed down to what it would go up at.
Don't think anyone took a blind bit of notice!
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>>Use engine braking for too long on a 2 stroke (oil pump feed lub system) and the engine will seize.
The oil pump was regulated by the throttle, coasting down hills on a closed throttle meant NO lubrication.....
Sorry st. Old 2 strokes used a petrol/oil mixture which gave a very rough and ready lubrication to the bottom end and on the overrun gave the minimum.
Separate oil fed through an oil tank linked to the throttle, although not an exact science, was far preferable to petroil. These systems usually had some device that that measured oil on a combination of throttle opening and engine revs. Thus on a long downhill section they would give more lubrication than a petrol/oil mix.
Purely hypothetical as anyone whose ridden/driven a two stroke will know, there's beggar (edit: to pass swear filter ;>)) all engine braking.
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>> Manual for the Yamaha FS1E apart from being written in very amusing English actually made that exact point.
>>
Use engine braking for too long on a 2 stroke (oil pump feed lub system) and the engine will seize.
The oil pump was regulated by the throttle, coasting down hills on a closed throttle meant NO lubrication.....
....... BANG!!!!!!!
No, it was a Fizzy.
.......POP!!!!!!!
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Saw what I thought was an amusing yet true sticker on the rear mudflap of a FS1E once.
"Fizzy's never die, they just seize"
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 21 Nov 10 at 20:52
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>> Saw what I thought was an amusing yet true sticker on the rear mudflap of
>> a FS1E once.
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>> "Fizzy's never die, they just seize"
>>
Seen the money Fizzy's go for these days??
And I happen to know where one is, that was parked up in a garage, around about 1977 and hasn't been moved since.....
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Brakes to slow, gears to go. - Mike Hannon
