I know what I want now, my wife likes the idea. I cant buy one for a while as I need to save up a bit, but maybe the end of next year ( I have a second job now ).
Can anyone guess what it is? If ya get nowhere near ill add clues :-)
Clue 1. It comes with 1.6 and 2.0 engines plus a diesel.
Clue 2. Its quite big.
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Nah, right sort of qualities to an extent though.
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You've seen sense and decided on a Mondeo Estate???
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As in Swedish qualities or just tasteful large estate type qualities?
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I was trying so hard not to jump to that conclusion.......
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Mondeo - My love of unloved cars says no. Driven many Mondeos over the years, dont rate them personally. No offense ;-)
Large estate ish qualities. I like space.
Korean it isnt. Made in Spain apparently.
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>> Korean it isnt. Made in Spain apparently.
>>
>>
Its not a Corsa/Nova is it? ;-)
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Seat Exeo or a Citroen C5?
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It is none of these things.
Herea a clue: They did an SLX version.
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Suzuki Vitara? or maybe a Grand Vitara?
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>> for a while as I need to save up a bit, but maybe the end
>> of next year ( I have a second job now ).
By then you will have changed your mind at least once a month. :-o
Last edited by: John H on Thu 18 Nov 10 at 21:01
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Well Im trying to focus :-)
If I tell the wife, I have to follow through.
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My guess was going to me Mitsubishi Lancer. Don't know if there is an SLX version.
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There is a Nissan Primeria SLX, now I know the estate wasn't built in the UK but I thought that was built in Japan. Erm there can't be that many Spannish car plants.
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On the right track Rattlo.
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Well google tells me their Spannish plant makes SUV type vehicles. Is it not a Pathfinder is it?
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18 Spanish car plants according to Anfac.
Building cars for Seat, Mercedes-Benz, Renault, Nissan, Citroen, Peugeot, Ford and Iveco.
Audi build a few models on Seat lines. Occasionally other parts of the VAG lineage are scheduled down those lines too, so that's a couple more possibles.
Is there a sweepstake? We should definitely have one. I'll have a Skoda Octavia SLX diseasal off the Seat line(s).
Last edited by: Skoda on Thu 18 Nov 10 at 21:44
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Not a Pathfinder no. Think about my typical budget - this one, maybe £800-1000.
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A Nissan Terrano aka Ford Maverick?
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He did say it was big, and it cost around £800-£1000 so I doubt it could be a Sunny. If the Maxima was built in Spain then it could be that, but I don't think they did an SLX spec in that.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 18 Nov 10 at 21:53
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Nissan Terrano? Shoot just seen Rattle's guess!
Last edited by: NeilS on Thu 18 Nov 10 at 21:54
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Oh your sooo close now... lucky Rattle knows his model designations or this would have taken ages ;-)
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Not a Bluebird is it? But that can't be worth £800.
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The Bluebird was built in the Sunderland too, the first car ever to be produced with a Geordie accent.
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Forgot he said Spain... where was the Patrol made?
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Looks like you have cracked it
"The 260 series was a Spanish built version of the 160 (Easily spotted by the rectangular headlamps) sold in Europe and was available in SWB / LWB and with L28, SD33 and RD28T engines. The SD engined version, at least in the UK market, had a 24 volt electrical system."
That was built upto 1994.
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Nope, more spacious than a Bluebird.
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Serena it is. 2.0 petrol for me please, its actually no more thirsty than the diesel. I fancy an MPV, but not a big one, or a wide one.
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How long will you keep it for?
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What's Bad
A step back from the 89-92 Prairie. Crude, commercial van-based design, built in Spain. Vile pig of a thing to drive. 66 bhp 2.0 litre and 74 bhp 2.3 litre diesels plain awful, with horrible droning jerky drive-train like a pre-war double-decker bus. S and T platers 8th from bottom in 2001 Top Gear / J.D. Power Customer Satisfaction Survey.
What to Watch Out For
Likely to have been airport taxis and to have covered more miles than on the clock. Some had two side doors; some had only one. Check for excessive smoke from diesels (dirty injectors or air filter). With its two timing chains, 1.6 petrol needs to have had regular oil changes. Electric windows stick.
Recalls
4-12-2009: Nissan is recalling more than 345,000 vehicles in Japan and abroad due to faulty brakes and fuel gauges.Comp any spokesman Mitsuru Yonekawa said the recall affected a total of 345,306 vehicles. Nearly 92% of the recalled vehicles were sold in Japan, with the rest mainly in Asia. But added the corrosion could cause malfunction for parking brakes. The recalled vehicles were the Elgrand minivan, the Serena minivan and the Cefiro sedan.
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My wife wants something that will be totally practical for when we have a baby, so unless we come into money, ill leave it open ended.
When I buy cars, I usually just buy the best car I can find, rather than something very specific. I like driving vans over cars, so ill prob like how it drives.
The 2.0 is rarer than the diesel, but there are a few about, the 1.6 is almost non-existant and I cant see the point of it.
Some people seem to like them.
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66bhp from a 2.0 petrol though? Seems to be very underpowered even by 1960s standards.
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Thats the 2.0 diesel. 2.0 petrol is 126 BHP. Its a fast shed :-)
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Aha, 126bhp should be more than enough, just don't use any of that power round the corners :).
I think it makes a lot more sense if you see it as a small minibus rather than a car.
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The Serena diesel was at one point the slowest-accelerating car on sale in the UK... Something like 31 seconds to 60mph IIRC.
One of our cab drivers had one, horribly uncomfortable to drive with a really really high transmission tunnel next to the driver - high enough to rest your elbow on. Not fantastically reliable back in the day either, but then what MPV is?
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Stu, but I think you'd regret the purchase.
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Your talking to a guy with a Daewoo Espero... ;-)
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>> Your talking to a guy with a Daewoo Espero... ;-)
Good point X-)
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I am not sure which would be worse to drive actually. Not driven any so cannot comment :).
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But even if he hates it will still make a big profit on it :D Then he will just buy something else a bit surprising, e.g cars we all thought had been long forgotton about.
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Well with you having a Panda Rattle, it puts an awful lot of pressure on me to come up with the goods eh ;-)
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>>Serena it is.>>
Oh dear.....
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I suppose a mini-bus is more spacious than a hatchback or estate car ;-)
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You dont need a Serena for a baby! how big do you think they get?
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I also use the car for work and carting stuff about. Now I have my own home, something bigger would be very useful.
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I think the baby is just an excuse to justify it :). Stu your wife is very patient :).
One reason I got decided on a new car to keep for the very long term was I driving everybody close to me insame with all the messing and swapping about with cars.
My Panda is very boring because it just works but I do double the milleage I did in my old Corsa because it is actually enjoyable to drive. Today I bought a monitor for the workshop simply because I wanted an excuse to drive - it could have waited a few days when I would have been going to the same shop anyway.
Anyway I see why you bought, it is a lot of car for the money :). Just make sure you proof the doubters wrong and keep it for a long time.
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Havent got it yet, im saving up :-)
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Have you thought about spending a bit more and buying a Toyota Previa? A lot more refinded and car like and you still see loads of mega milleage H regs about. My aunty had a coudple of them from brand new, a K and then an N reg.
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I second the Previa/Lucida route. A friend had a J-reg import diesel auto one a few years back - loads of space and 45mpg. I think he paid £2k for it 5 or 6 years back and I know you can pick up MoT'd ones for £995 now. The import market's well established enough for spares not to be a problem. Much better choice than a Serena :)
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>> Havent got it yet, im saving up :-)
>>
What a terrible vehicle to want to save up for to be honest. Sorry. Have you actually driven or seen one recently?
I remember a project manager at a customer getting one new (around 98/99) and it was not well liked by him. Sorry again.
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Previa is huge and very thirsty, would be overkill.
Again, I drive a DAEWOO ESPERO and I dont dislike it.
I do few long journeys these days. Long distance comfort isnt a massive draw for me anymore. I like space, compact dimensions, high driving position. I also like cheapish and because the Serena isnt well loved, they are cheaper than most MPVs - my brother in law has a 2.3 auto Galaxy - its a shed, its knckered, but I bet you someone will still pay good money for it.
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But the Espero might out to be a very good car to drive in comparison. I think you just need to drive one, if you like how it drives then you have found your next perfect car.
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>> Previa is huge
Only 40cm longer than Serena :)
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I don't post very often on any topic Stu, and even less frequently on topics concerning members' choice of car, but having driven a Serena I really have to add my voice to those urging caution here.
When myself and Mrs Ash were initially looking for a 7 seater (enforced by 4 kids and a dog) we looked at and drove just about about every suitable model available ranging from a Volvo 960 to the Serena. We ended up with an Espace after a brief encounter with a Ulysse, both cars really were infinitely preferable to the Serena in terms of driving, practicality, and running costs.
Having driven one - albeit fortunately briefly - I can only say the Serena has very little indeed to commend it. If you are purchasing an MPV with a newborn baby in mind I'd suggest something with a sliding door would be much more sensible if you really must have an MPV - look at a Previa as Rattle suggests, or a Ulysse / Synergie / 806.
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Mazda Bongo or the Ford Freda - same car, nice looking, good reputation, daft names.
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If the man wants a Serena, let him get a Serena - there's nowt as queer (can I say that) as folk,
one man's meat is another man's poison, there is no accounting for taste etc., etc.,
It like trying to tell me there are better bands out there than Pink Floyd :)
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>>>If the man wants a Serena, let him get a Serena
Fair point but Stu did come on here kite flying again so we are merely responding to his needs.
My only experience with the Serena is a couple of Mum's turned up with them at our girl's primary school a few years back. Both were bought as people carriers on a budget. They didn't keep them long. Like driving something from the 50s as far as noise/refinement/dynamics went. A nightmare for grip, handling, braking stability and particularly in side winds.
If you truly value the safety of the family you'd swallow your pride and buy a 2001 Mondeo.
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Another word of caution from me. Friend of mine bought a Serena to double as a family car and works van. He hated it with a passion. Only kept it a few months.
Strongly suggest, if your mind is set on one, that you find a way of getting an extended test drive before making your final decision.
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>>Like driving something from the 50s as far as noise/refinement/dynamics went. A nightmare for grip, handling, braking stability and particularly in side winds<<
But I'll wager they were a damn good vehicle, apart from that :)
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Indeed... keep it on the drive and everything's good.
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Ok, I always listen to words of wisdom - Lucida was it? Is that like a Previa but slightly smaller?
Im wary of jap imports, mainly that they come from dodgy sources. Anyone actually owned something like this?
My father in law had a Pajero, but if you took the badges off you would swear it was a Shogun - not quite the same as a model with no direct UK equiv.
I dont want something wide, thats for sure. Ive driven a Previa and lovely though they are, they are also hugely thirsty and those that are about in my price range are knackered.
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Ok, I just had a thought. A car id forgotten about which I DID like back in the day. Stupid name still. Toyota Picnic - they any good?
I drove one years ago and I remember making a mental note ( which I clearly lost ) that it was a very nice feeling car.
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>>Toyota Picnic - they any good?<<
Now you're 'cooking with gas' comrade - the difference between chalk n' cheese compared to the Nissan.
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Actually, I cook with electric ;-)
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But Stu, back to first principles for a moment: why do you want an MPV at all? You're having one baby. (Are you? Or is that still a plan?) Anyway, I've seen babies, and they're only little. True, they come with some clobber and you need access to strap them in, so a 911 might be a bad choice, but anything with four passenger doors and a reasonable boot will cope. A Daewoo Espero, for example.
Our first baby, baby kit and both parents fitted adequately in a W-plate Skoda Fabia. True, we now have a small MPV, but by then we had two children and wanted the option of taking their friends along on days out. The Fabia did fine for our first seven years as parents - enough for about 30 car changes chez Stu.
I must admit the only time I've noticed Serenas is when one encounters a modest gradient on a motorway. Trucks pull out to pass it; timid Polo drivers pull out to pass it; lost pensioners on mobility scooters pull out to pass it. I realize this will only increase Stu's determination, but I absolutely cannot imagine why he, or anyone else, would want one.
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Ive found in the last year ive needed a big car more frequently than before.
Since my dad sold his Astra estate, the Materia is the biggest car we have in terms of true carrying capacity and while it can do volume, it cant do length.
A baby is just one extra factor. Im doing alot more in the garden now, we have family holidays with all my family, so many times when it wouldd be useful to have something bigger.
The Espero has a big boot, but its not practical, if that makes sense.
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Stu, I have a Volvo S60; I know all about big boots that aren't practical. Still got quite good at packing the travel cot and pushchair in there.
}:---)
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When no. 1 son was a few months old, we decided to change the Avensis, and bought an S60. I absolutely love it, but few weeks go by that I don't wish we'd got the V70 instead (I too have learnt the art of pushchair boot packing...)
Partly cos I really like estates and particularly Volvos, but mostly because the S60 boot while big is still a boot. Wife hates estates though, hence the S60.
You'd get a decent 850 estate for £1000, or a nice 940. Just saying...
Alex.
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>> Partly cos I really like estates and particularly Volvos, but mostly because the S60 boot
>> while big is still a boot. Wife hates estates though, hence the S60.
>>
Funny old world - I am your mirror image. I hate estates, but like saloons. Mrs L hates saloons but likes estates. You drive a saloon, I drive an estate.
Pursuing the example further, you must be tall dark & handsome.
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You do have to feel a certain sympathy for saloon drivers I suppose. One just has to assume that they couldn't quite run to the estate version at the time of purchase...
;-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Fri 19 Nov 10 at 14:18
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One just has to assume that [saloon car owners] couldn't quite run to the estate version at the time of purchase.
In my case, Humph, that's exactly right. I was trying to replace a Saab 9-3, which had a fantastically capacious and accessible hatchback boot. A V70 D5 was beyond my company car allowance; a V70 2.4 petrol would have cost too much in BiK tax. Had there been a V60 in 2002 I'd have snapped it up, but the only way to have the engine, audio system and driving environment that had so impressed me was to compromise round the back. Do I wish I'd had a Passat estate instead? Never!
Granted, not many makers charge as much of a premium for the estate as Volvo, but I don't suppose I'm the only one who's done this.
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>> The Espero has a big boot, but its not practical, if that makes sense.
Saloon right?
:-)
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I'd rather put my kids in the boot than drive a Serena.
I had to check on Autotrader because I had no idea what one was. What a hideous looking skip.
Sincere apologies to all skips, no offence meant.
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Ive owned a lilac Daihatsu, a Reliant Rialto and I now drive an Espero. I also used a Suzuki Carry as my only vehicle for 18 months - try that one for size - makes a Serena look like pure luxury. My standards are concentrated in different areas.
And NO Mondeo. Id need a psychotic episode to buy one, they embody everything I hate in a car.
I dont really want a proper estate, my back has got incredibly bad so I dont want something that is too low to the ground at the back, nor that I have to stoop to get into like my current car - my wife had to help me out the other day!
Espero is very much a saloon, so its big space, small opening!
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>>>NO Mondeo. Id need a psychotic episode to buy one, they embody everything I hate in a car.
Do explain!
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>>
>> And NO Mondeo. Id need a psychotic episode to buy one, they embody everything I
>> hate in a car.
>>
I think you need a Super Psychologist Turbo if you would seriously prefer a Serena or an Espero to a Mondeo of similar value.
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Because a Mondeo is absolutely the dullest car on the face of the planet.
That alone would prevent me, but added to the fact that ive driven them many times, I really dont rate them whatsoever ( the diesel is particularily loathsome ).
I know they handle well, but thats of no use to me the way I drive. I also find the driving position very wrong for me. Id prefer an Escort over a Mondeo, but as I said, I want something higher up seatingwise.
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>> Because a Mondeo is absolutely the dullest car on the face of the planet.
Oh, I know. That pin-sharp handling and well-weighted steering and geneal surefootedness in just about any situation get very tiresome.
>> ( the diesel is particularily loathsome ).
Yep. 243 lbs ft and transient overboost, and silent cruising while doing nearly 50mpg - YUCK.
Sorry, I'll stop being sarcastic now.
I know it would be a funny old world if we all liked the same things but seriously Stu, you would rate a dreadful old shed like a Serena over one of these?
If a van-derived vehicle is really what you're after, then is there not a Berlingo/Kangoo/Doblo or similar in your price range? Much better drive, any of them.
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Would you fit a baby in a Berlingo/Kangoo/Doblo though Paul?
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Unless it was a baby elephant or giraffe, Dave, I'd expect so. But are Berlingos and the like available at the (sorry, Stu) jumble sale end of the market yet?
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Without question - isn't that what the shelf above the windscreen is for? ;-)
Put it this way, I had a 53-reg Civic when B Jr first showed up and it was fine apart from a disproportionately shallow boot, which did not agree with the small tank of a pushchair that we had at the time.
I traded the Civic for a 55-plate Mondeo hatchback when the lad was about 6 months old and shortly after that we had a week's holiday in Devon - we managed to get everything we needed to take (which, let's face it, is a fair bit for a baby just weaning) in the boot, apart from the pushchair (which by this time was a proper folding Maclaren job).
Actually, loadspace wasn't the main reason for buying the thing - I was doing a lot of miles for work at the time and needed something a bit more suited to long motorway trips than the Civic with its 19.5mph/1000rpm top gear.
For shorter trips, the various Pandas we've had over the last 6 years have been fine.
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On Autotrader Belingos can be had from £575. Would be a lot further up my list thab a serena..........in fact a serena would be just above walking
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He could get a nice Dispatch/Expert/Scudo window van. Brilliant!
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You miss the point paulb. I rarely do more than 50 mph in my daily driving. Even rarer that I push the car in a bend. The handling of my Espero is more than good enough for my driving style, so steering and hanling are totally irrelevant so long as they are as good as a decidedly average car.
The Mondeo of the vintage that id buy came with a 87 bhp diesel. It had the narrowest powerband of any diesel ive ever driven and I had to drive it 200 miles including thro central London. I hated the thing with passion.
A Mondeo is what you buy if you care what everyone else buys. I have owned mainstream cars and I can never wait to get rid. Nobody aspires to own a Mondeo, its just a tool.
I like vans, so its natural that a people carrier of some sort is a nice compromise.
I dont look down on someone for buying a Mondeo, its a decent car, but for me, personally, it would bore me instantly. Your talking to a guy whos dream car is a Bristol Brigand Turbo.
People who desire a car like that will never want a Mondeo, its just the rules.
Ive been in the motor trade for nearly 13 years in some capacity, ive driven many of my dream cars, so to get my attention, it has to be something odd or unusual.
Berlingos and the like go for strong money, ive looked.
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But the Espero had quite a lot of Cavalier in its underpinnings as I recall - nothing at all wrong with that - I remember people's objection to it when it came out was that it was a lot of money to pay for a re-skinned Cav with 3 years' servicing chucked in but that's hardly an issue now they are 10-15 years old.
I would say though that you don't need to be going fast to appreciate tidiness in a car's handling, ride etc.
As regards a Mk 2 Mondeo diesel, I'd agree - that's why I went for the Mk 3. Yes, it was a tool, but it was a damn good one which took everything I could throw at it over about 2 years of ownership and was a pleasure to use in the process.
I wouldn't class myself as someone who cares what everyone else buys though - the number of Fiats I've owned in my life is testament to that, including the Bravo that I've got now. That has way more character than the Mondeo and is better specified in a number of respects, but objectively it isn't as good a car. I like it though...
It's a shame you can't get something like a Doblo in your price bracket because they are damn good (and perfect for folk with dodgy backs - my parents have one for this reason)
Last edited by: paulb on Fri 19 Nov 10 at 16:29
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well I am glad this lot managed to convince you not to have a Serena. It was the nastiest shed of its type, and dangerous to boot.
The picnic is good, friends of mine had one for 6 years. If you can find one, pretty rare.
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I still think he will buy a Serena :).
Another thing I would be concerned about is safety, a lot of those van type MPVs had far worse safety ratings than cars did at the time.
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Serenas are nasty things, they fall over really easily,.
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"Serenas are nasty things, they fall over really easily"
Best get a Weeble then.
Weebles wobble but they don't fall down.
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>>Serenas are nasty things, they fall over really easily,.<<
It's the Mazda Bongo that falls over easily.
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>> well I am glad this lot managed to convince you not to have a Serena.
He hasn't given in already, has he?
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Well in truth, id clean forgotten about the Picnic. Back in the mid to late 90's there wasnt the MPV choice we enjoy today and I have a budget, so the rule of buying the best example possible still applies. I could have had my BILs Galaxy for a grand, but eek.
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>>The picnic is good, friends of mine had one for 6 years. If you can find one, pretty rare<<
Loadsa Toyota Picnics on ebay.
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Looks like ill be lucky to get one with under 100k for less than £1300 or so though, Im leaning towards an auto next time around really.
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I know you're not looking @ the mo but - that blue one on ebay in W Lothian looks a goer,
gonna be a bit juicy with an autobox, but no worries with the mileage you do.
An auto would be a nice smooth drive, you might even hang on to it for a few years :)
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The good ones are always there when you arent looking same goes for women :-)
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>>The good ones are always there when you arent looking same goes for women :-)<<
Story of my life ;-D
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Along the Picnic theme also look at Avensis Verso, a little bigger than Picnic and one of the best cars Toyota ever built IMO, in proper auto form a lovely drive, rare.
If you like van based you might be better looking at the grey import versions of Hiace vans.
Serena did have one redeeming virtue turning circle nearly as good as a cab.
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Verso may be a nice car, but for my budget, id need to be filing down VIN numbers and changing number plates to afford one ;-)
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I ralate to that very well and for that reason I am staying single for the rest of my life. Who needs stupid nags.
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Just been watching a couple of cars on Ebay, see where they went.
1999 Serena diesel, 120k, new MOT, 6 tax £760
1995 Serena diesel, 118k, 6 MOT, 6 tax £650
1991 Toyota Townace diesel auto, 110k, 6 MOT, no tax £620 ( didnt meet reserve )
2000 Toyota Picnic auto petrol, 100k, 8 MOT, no tax, FSH, £971
Its easy to see why people on budgets buy the Serena. Its dirt cheap if you have a bundle of kids. Espaces go for far more than that and they are usually on their last legs when sold.
Picnic in question would have been a great buy though being a one owner, FSH car.
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Please don't buy a Serena. I drove the diesel one on holiday about ten years ago. The only thing good to say about it was the driving position. Everything else was heavy, cumbersome and slow. Poor performance and not the equivalent in economy.
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i owned a taxi company up till 10yrs ago and i bought 3 seranas 2.3d and ran all over 600k miles in 6yrs.
never went wrong but the drivers hated them so when they died i bought 3 torneos but all went wrong most of the time
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Give that man a medal :-)
That must give balance to the choice now. Horrid but durable. Some people marry that though ;-)
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...the drivers hated them so when they died...
More durable than the drivers, apparently. Eww!
};---)
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why buy a car that's a: hateful to drive and b: has dangerous handling characteristics?
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I owned a Suzuki Carry, it wasnt dangerous, just different rules applied.
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>>I owned a Suzuki Carry, it wasnt dangerous, just different rules applied.<<
That's right! - I had the Suzi and the Honda Acti ... never had a smash - until I upgraded to the Mitsi L300,
more powerful see.
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Unless I've missed it, no-one has yet mentioned the Honda Shuttle. There was a 1980s model about the size of a Toyota Picnic or Nissan Prairie, and then a bigger one in the 1990s.
Personally I'd go for an Octavia or Mondeo estate in front of any of these, but presumably, Stu, if you have back trouble you want something higher up to get in and out of.
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I know everyone appears to be Mondeo fans but in honesty my Mondeo MK3 estate was one of the best cars I've ever owned/run. My 330d Touring was better in every respect except space - but not 100% better and it cost twice as much.
I had the 2.0L petrol Mondeo and got reasonable economy 34-38MPG, reasonable performance and a very spacious and comfortable car. Moreover it was very reliable over 4 years and 60K miles, requiring a reversing light switch under warrantee - and cheap to service too. I changed it for an Audi B7 170PDi Avant and knew within minutes I'd made a mistake, don't underrate the Mondy, pick the right one (maybe a 2.0L petrol perhaps) and they're fantastic cars - badge snobbery aside.
When I return home I may well have lost my badge snobbery and the Mondeo or S-Max will be high on my list of cars to consider.
Have you considered Focus Estates ?
I'm not sure how much MK3s are going for or whether they'll fit your budget, but I'd have one over anything else you've described, as for the Serena, even as a van it was horrid - slow, noisy, cumbersome and not even spacious. If you want a Japanese car, what about a Primera Estate, they were OK by all accounts.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Tue 23 Nov 10 at 02:00
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Ive decided it must be something higher up which rules out any conventional estate car.
My back now has trouble even allowing me to stand up from sitting down, so a car that I can simply slide out of rather than stand up out of is going to be crucial. Im having a helluva lot of trouble emptying the boot of the Espero right now because its both deep and low to the ground. I can bend down just fine, but coming back up is very inconsistant, even worse when lifting something and you havent hands free to haul yourself up.
Ive got to save up, but my back is getting that bad I may have to buy earlier than planned as Im finding driving ( esp changing gear and steering when parking ) very painful.
Really dont want to though, I want to have the Espero a year before I even think about changing it. My back was ok when I bought it so its just sods law.
My dads Materia is perfect for me in terms of height, its what has sold me on an MPV type car.
I looked at the Honda Shuttle but it does seem big compared to the Picnic which appears more like a Grand Scenic to the Shuttle's Espace size.
The Picnic is now front runner and owners reviews on Parkers are glowing aswell, even HJ seems to rate them reasonably. The later model Prarie is worth a look but most will be well past it by now whereas the Picnic is about 5 years newer and there are plenty of circa 100k examples about.
Im not convinced by the Mitsubishi Space Wagon, it looks too low. I actually thought about a Volvo 200 series because I read they are quite high set for a conventional car. Never sat in one though.
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Did you see my mention of the Mazda Bongo / Ford Freda above?
Also an early, high mileage Avensis Verso might be within budget.
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Stu ... I'll have to update Pat's "where is Dog" thread which dealt with my back trouble.
Keep watching the skies, well - the ww anyway!
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>> Stu ... I'll have to update Pat's "where is Dog" thread which dealt with my
>> back trouble.
Yeah, I'd like another look at that George Clooney photo!
How's your back now dog? Any better?
Last edited by: corax on Tue 23 Nov 10 at 17:02
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Really not being flippant Stu but I'm amazed you can do your work at all if you have that much problem getting in/out of the car and driving it.
I've had back problems for many years after hurting it trying to stop a tall heavy bit of farm eqpt toppling to the ground almost 20yrs ago. Eventually got to understand what I could and couldn't do but two things kept it bad for a long time... carrying the children when they were toddlers... and having anything to do with bending into cars or under bonnets.
Now both those things are in the past I have very little trouble but just doing the service and brake disc change on Mrs F's C3 the other month brought the twinges on again.
I do have to watch bending my head to get in a car and in that respect I have to be very careful with the C5 which has a steeply raked screen and requires an altered entry posture to avoid strain.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 23 Nov 10 at 14:02
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Well, its a funny thing. Before I go out to work I have a searing hot shower, concentrate mainly on my back. This seems to help a bit, then once I get moving, Im not too bad at work although if Im hoovering a car for more than 10 mins I have trouble straightening up.
I try to go down on my knees to do low down stuff rather than bending wherever possible, but in my younger days I would have bent double rather than go onto my knees ( which are in bad shape themselves but ok if I use a kneeling pad ).
The worst time is in the evenings when my back seems to seize up completely.
Perhaps like you, ive worked out what I can do and how to work around things.
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>>>ive worked out what I can do and how to work around things.
Yes that and knowing when to ease off to prevent a bad few days. Self management has at least kept me away from the doctors for many years.
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i had a late 1990's shuttle and it was exceedingly comfortable and with 150hp was very quick but averaged about 28mpg.
nice car though and a lovely cream interior
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Don't overlook the Matra Rancho, Stu - should be right up your street.......
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Can you find a complete Matra Rancho?
I thought most had returned to the iron ore from whence they came.
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As usual ebay is Stu's friend...
cgi.ebay.co.uk/1980-TALBOT-MATRA-RANCHO-Best-UK-/330495019959
A car so far ahead of its time very few people have made the connection to similar vehicles today.
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X 100 at least.
(I was in the motor trade!)
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"A car so far ahead of its time very few people have made the connection to similar vehicles today."
Fortunately today there is nothing similar. It was hideous when new and that gold colour highlights its hideousness to .. I was going to say "perfection" but to associate that with "perfection" is wrong,wrong,wrong. ...
Anyway, I can't see anyone spending £3k on that poc...
Last edited by: madf on Tue 23 Nov 10 at 18:41
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>>>Fortunately today there is nothing similar.
Remember in design terms this was the era of the Hyundai Pony, Maestro, Allegro, Mk3/4 Cortina, Marina/Ital, Fiat Strada, Datsun Violet, Renault 12.
And yes its concept was way ahead of its time. The streets are full of vehicles like it now.... aspiring to the country/off road lifestyle making folks feel rugged and purposeful... designed with enlarged bodies and no real intention they should ever get muddy. Some of the new vehicles... given how design has moved on... are just as *ugly*.
Yep they looked into the future with that model.
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Two words FN - Simca 1100....
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I know what it was based on if that's what you mean... the Simca 1100 pickup.
I still stand by the concept having predicted the trend for half the contents of Tesco's car park this week.... chunky lifestyle vehicles.
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Oh you're dead right in that respect....A colleague bought one of these, it seemed pretty exotic in them long gone days...
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>> I had the 2.0L petrol Mondeo and got reasonable economy 34-38MPG, reasonable performance and a
>> very spacious and comfortable car. Moreover it was very reliable over 4 years and 60K
>> miles, requiring a reversing light switch under warrantee - and cheap to service too. I
>> changed it for an Audi B7 170PDi Avant and knew within minutes I'd made a
>> mistake,
What didn't you like about the Audi? I like the look of the A3 TDi but there's a nagging feeling I'm just being seduced by the looks. I've had a couple of Audi's before, they were OK but nothing special.
I wonder if anyone drives a Focus estate 2.0TDCi on here? That would seem to be a well rounded car, despite the bland looks. Good handling, grunty engine and useful. The police seem to like them.
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Always liked those Matras, had a matchbox one as a kid, but the few that are left go for serious coin, although clearly not THAT one on Ebay - clearly a rather optimistic owner. Mite have gone to £2k if the start price had been low enough to get people into it.
It may be a classic now and indeed ahead of its time, but it was still a rusty old french thing that most people these days have never heard of.
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Look I will own up, I fancied one when they were new.
There, its said - I confess.
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>> Always liked those Matras, had a matchbox one as a kid
If you still have that and it's in good condition it's also surprisingly valuable. Sadly my Matchbox and Corgi models were rammed relentlessly against the skirting board before being handed on to my younger brother.
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It has to be said, that does appear to be a very fine example. It also has to be said that you wouldn't dare take it out in the rain or get it wet, because it wouldn't stay very fine,
In this case, use it and loose it.
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I remember the Murena - 3 seats across, very wide at the back. Only one I ever saw was in southern France, metallic brown. Didnt know what it was, disappointed to find out it had a weedy engine.
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My ex wife owned a 27k 1980 Talbot Avenger 1600 auto, lovely condition. She treated it like any other car and had no fear hitting 85 on the M1 and doing 200 miles a week in it.
Cars tend to work best if used, this one got better as time went on. Tragic in some ways but low miles cars aint all that.
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I think you have driven or owned just about every car featured in those crap car books. Next you will be telling us you have owned a VW Beatle or FSO Polenez.
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Id love a 70's Beetle, the really undesirable model in orange please!
I thought about a Polenez once because it was dirt cheap, but having driven a Lada Samara once and hating it, I figured the FSO would be worse still and I couldnt quite allow myself it at the time.
You must have realised by now that Im a motoring eccentric ;-)
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I have the original Crap Cars book in front of me Rats...
I've driven or owned more of them than I'd care to admit!! Even my current shed is in there...
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I nearly became a dealer for FSO.
The importer's sales rep. let me drive a Polonez!
Chose Lada instead! + Proton later on.
Sold quite a few before the last recession ('92) hit. Then Crashed & burned.
The then MD of Lada's importers summed them up thus:
"Ladas are not for driving - they are for making money for you" - and they could do that, too!
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>> low miles cars aint all that.
You're telling me. My first car was a 10 year old Allegro with 34,000 miles on it. Say no more...
8 months, several gallons of oil, numerous cylinder head removals, scrapped it.
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My dads had a few of them as well but he has also had some classics. He has owned:-
2 X Morris Minors
2 X Minis
2 X Lada Riva 1200Ls
1 x Fiat Punto SX
1 x Ford Escort
2 x Fiesta
He did shope short of buying a Samera though. He never realised what the fuss about Ladas was until he bought a two year old Punto, then he realised how bad the Lada actually was. I was 16 when he got rid of it so I regret never getting the chance to drive the Lada.
He did nearly buy a Daweoo Nexia back in 1998 but we all realised it would loose value as quick as the Ladas and setteled on a Punto SX instead. We paid £1600 for the Escort when the Punto was written off in a bad accident and that was six years old at the time. A damn fine motor vehicle for £1600. That was back in 2002, the joke is now a 1995 Escort MK7 (last shape) with tax and MOT would still be worth £500.
The main issue with Escorts though is they did very badly in the NCAP tests.
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The Samara just felt horrible. Brakes were lethal, suspension all over the place, bits of interior falling off, steering felt weird, I could go on. The shame of it was that it had a years MOT and was being sold for £100. Thats why people buy them. Makes a Daewoo look like a premium motor.
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But compared to the Samera it is. The Espero you have is an early 80's cavilier but they were well known to be good to drive at the time. When the Samera came out in about 1984 (was introduced later in the UK in about 87) it was already known to be a complete dog. People say the Rivas are actually better to drive and are actually quite modern in some ways. The suspension is coil spring and all the engines were overhead cam.
What really let Ladas down was by the 80's a lot of cars had more reliable electronic ignition and the distributors in Ladas were made out of cheese. I am pretty sure they had unreliable carbs too.
That said my dad bought his last Lada in 1992, it had 30k on the clock and he took it to 67k without a single oil change. By that time it was using so much oil and had so much blow smoke getting stopped by the cops was something which happened every week.
You just would not get away with running a shed like that today.
I do find it fasinating what you do with your cars, e.g buy really unusual cars at a discount price because nobody else wants to drive them.
Personaly I would find it very stressful and never want to do the buying and selling of cars again it just isn't for me, I worry too much.
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I was checking prices for Mondeos the other day Rattle. A low miler on Ebay, similar state to my Espero, went for £840. I paid £410 for my car. I bet you I can get £500 for it no problem. You cant get many cars with full history, a new MOT and 44k for less than £500 these days. It even had a year old cambelt with paperwork to prove and just two owners.
Its not a car you would ever love, but if you have £500 and want a car that isnt on its last legs, you might buy it. Ebay is brilliant for more obscure stuff and it has so much traffic, even a Daewoo will sell.
Prices for old stuff are crazy right now though. Two years ago I could have a pick of 20 cars for £500, now its just a handful even worth a look. The cars are still there, but making far more £££.
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That is just quite mad, people say I don't use my Panda but it will be on 15k by the time it sees its first MOT.
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Well my dads next car will have to be something like an Espero or even worse. Nobody has any money so we are not even getting it oil changed this year. Although its only done 7k since the last one.
If and when the Fiesta packs in though we are stuffed, the problem is 90k and 13 years old it is still on nearly all the original engine parts. Still runs like a dream though, it is just the bodywork which has the tin worm.
My late uncle used to do what you do, but he earnt a fortune but had a very ill wife so all the money went on private doctors to keep her alive. She has out lived him. I was always amazed at some of the bangers he used to turn up in.
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My hairdresser's new car - bought it at the weekend - a customer's car.
The customer traded in a Ka for a new Fiesta but still had a Mondeo in the garage- 2000 on a W with 12,000 mls on the clock. He paid £2,000 for it - probably 50%-100% more than average price but with 10% of the mileage.
New battery and its in for a service - the car was serviced annually, just seldom used.
Good buy or Good-bye we will find out in the future - the body work, interior is as new - just worry about the seals, gaskets and how the car will take to abuse - his old cars were on the rough side of rough.
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The Lada Riva was OK - properly looked after.
Solid as a tank, ex Moskvitch, engine.
I had a demonstrator (fun car, actually) with two Webers, fancy inlet manifold, high-lift cam, straight through exhaust and lowered with adjustable shock absorbers..
Great for surprising XR3s.
The Samara was a bit fragile in the electrics dept - the fuse boxes were sourced, by the Russians, from IIRC, Romania (home of the Dacia!!) on a barter basis for wheat.
They were DIRE and we replaced loads under warranty - good profit for us at retail labour rate - 10% and parts the same cost basis.
They were not bad by the time I shut the business in '92.
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When I drove a Samara, it was the scariest thing ive ever driven. I didnt do more than 30. The steering was so vague and the suspension reacted so weirdly to the road, it felt like there was no solid connection to the road surface. Its what you would call MY limit.
I know, nobody thought I had one :-)
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I had a Samara for about a year around 12 years ago.
It was cheap to buy, roomy in the front, comfortable, and the bodywork had a solid feel to it.
The drive must have been dreadful because that's what everyone says, but I chugged around quite happily for a few thousand miles.
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>>The main issue with Escorts though is they did very badly in the NCAP tests.
You worry too much. There's some here who used to drive around in vehicles like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_Minicar
We survived! Those that didn't aren't here to criticise. ;>)
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It is a different world now though, in the 50's a lot of people were riding in scooters and micro cars. Now people are riding round in X5s.
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>>Now people are riding round in X5s.
For X5, read Ford V8 Pilot, Rover 90, Austin Amazon etc. They all handled far worse than an X5.
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>>
>> What didn't you like about the Audi? I like the look of the A3 TDi
>> but there's a nagging feeling I'm just being seduced by the looks. I've had a
>> couple of Audi's before, they were OK but nothing special.
>>
Well I admit to rather 'going on' about this but.... I had an A4 B5 back in 1999 and it was my first 'quality car', I still remember it fondly as it was a revelation compared to my previous company Vectra. Having decided in 2007 to go back into the company scheme the A4 B7 Avant with the 170PD engine seduced me with its mixture of low CO2 and high power. In fact this particular PD engine turned out to be agricultural, had truly awful power delivery characteristics and (worst of all) it was thirsty - struggling to give 40mpg. So, a nice car ruined by my engine choice. To put this in context, I replaced it with a 330d with 245PS and that managed an 45mpg average in my custody and was very refined. I won't touch anything with a PD engine as a result so would personally steer clear of A3s with this engine (or derivatives) too.
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>>
>> What didn't you like about the Audi? I like the look of the A3 TDi
>> but there's a nagging feeling I'm just being seduced by the looks. I've had a
>> couple of Audi's before, they were OK but nothing special.
>>
Well I admit to rather 'going on' about this but.... I had an A4 B5 back in 1999 and it was my first 'quality car', I still remember it fondly as it was a revelation compared to my previous company Vectra. Having decided in 2007 to go back into the company scheme the A4 B7 Avant with the 170PD engine seduced me with its mixture of low CO2 and high power. In fact this particular PD engine turned out to be agricultural, had truly awful power delivery characteristics and (worst of all) it was thirsty - struggling to give 40mpg. So, a nice car ruined by my engine choice. To put this in context, I replaced it with a 330d with 245PS and that managed an 45mpg average in my custody and was very refined. I won't touch anything with a PD engine as a result so would personally steer clear of A3s with this engine (or derivatives) too.
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>> I won't touch anything with a PD engine as a result so would personally steer
>> clear of A3s with this engine (or derivatives) too.
I had an Audi 80 estate with the 90bhp TDi engine. It was OK but gutless compared to the modern breed, but the TDi engines were always agricultural, I guess the A3 is going to be the same, so point taken. The trouble is I've been seduced by a creamy petrol straight six, so going to a PD engine would be like getting out of a Lexus and sitting on a Massey Ferguson :-)
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For a grand or thereabouts, surely the Nissan Almera Tino offers one of the best solutions to Stu's original category? W/X/Y reg fetch about that sort of money.
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Seem to be some proper faults emerging with the age of Tino id be looking at:
WARNING front crossmember can rust through after 6 - 7 years and is an MoT failure point
Wiper motors (front and rear) are extremely fragile. Cost over £200 for each motor.
Engine management light comes on and stays on. Extremely difficult and costly to get rid of.
Compare that to the Serena:
Check for excessive smoke from diesels (dirty injectors or air filter). With its two timing chains, 1.6 petrol needs to have had regular oil changes. Electric windows stick.
I rather a sticking elec window than any of the above Tino issues.
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>> I rather a sticking elec window than any of the above Tino issues.
>>
Tell me that as the diabolical handling sends the thing careering in to a river, and you can't wind the windows down to get out!
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...Tell me that as the diabolical handling sends the thing careering in to a river, and you can't wind the windows down to get out!...
But at least his wipers will be still be working. :)
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I've never actually driven into a river inadvertently. I did it once in a Land Rover but that was deliberate. I'd say it was quite easy, as a rule of thumb anyway, to avoid doing it without really wanting to. However, if I was driving a Tino I suppose I'd make doubly sure it was on my list of things to beware of.
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Or as the front end of the Tino collapses with rust and I end up in the same place :-)
Im not one for buying cars with design faults like terminal corrosion, thats lunacy.
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>> Im not one for buying cars with design faults like terminal corrosion, thats lunacy.
>>
I am. I've had many Alfas and Fiats in my time - thought you were a 33 fan? ;-)
Surely it would be easy to spot a rusting front crossmember on a car? If it looks dodgy, walk away. If it doesn't, it'll probably last the 3 weeks 4 days that you'll keep the car. ;-) again.
I presume those who have never skidded into a river inadvertently have never owned a Serena.
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We have a 1999 Shuttle on the works fleet. Very comfy, smooth auto, and enough power when you want it. It's done 130k and seems indestructible. Consistent 28mpg as per nyx2k states. You can also 'walk through' from front to back, could be handy for attending to kids, just make sure you get one with cruise control ;-)
EDIT: Sorry, you've already discounted due to size. Smaller than the Galaxy trio though.
Last edited by: ToMoCo on Wed 1 Dec 10 at 16:16
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I shall certainly have a look at the Shuttle, ill watch a few on Ebay, see where values are.
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Hey Stu, how about a Tacuma? 05/06 examples (Chevvy badge) can be had for under 2 grand, looks a bargain, so long as you can handle the annual VED bill..........
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Needs to be somewhere under 1 grand really although the older Tacuma comes at that price. Im struggling to find something automatic other than a Picnic which is still my favorite on paper.
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Ive had a crazy idea. Wait till ya see what Im after now :-)
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Let me guess; tinyurl.com/3xoe7m5
'afore ye go.
John
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haha :-)
Even Rattle wont guess this one.
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Oh please, even if I had the money, never.
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Stu if you're back as been bad for a while why did you buy the Daweoo which is a 1980's profile e.g very low down and back breaking to get into?
Have you thought of a Vitara? I know they are 4x4 but they tend to have small engines so they are quite cheap to run.
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It was the only car worth buying at the time in terms of condition and price. It solved a short term issue as I couldnt have a gap in car ownership, but now ive changed my work arrangements with a second job, so Im not so tied to valeting.
I could go a few weeks without a car now and not be too out of pocket workwise.
Im going to see if my new idea comes to anything right now, it could take a few months to locate the right example of the car Im after, theres only 300 or so about, so finding the right car isnt instant.
Re Vitara, yes, mentioned them further up the thread, I like the 5dr ones although they do rust badly.
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I think Teds has been fine rust wise. With Vitaras it seems to be a case that some are rotten crap whole others are fine.
Only 300 in the UK I am guessing it might be a Jap import or something quite strange like a Nissan Oglo.
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Nope, its as British as Yorkshire pud. I wouldnt say its strange, but deffo would get jeers from here. I feel ive let my rep slip of late, I need something really 'out there' to fin my inner calm again :-)
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If there is only 300 left it must be a BL product.
Its a marina!
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 19:14
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Nope. If I had to describe the stereotypical owner, it would be a tight-fisted welsh pensioner.
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A Meastro Diesel Clubman?
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Or an Allegro but it is a tall car so I am not a bit confused. Could be a Montego but they rusted.
It is probably an Austin Seven.
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It was made for 7 years and they sold apr 4000. Ive wanted one for about 5 years but too impatient to wait for one to turn up.
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I'm thinking Reliant three wheeler, but he wouldnt.....
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£4000 when?
If it is British I am quite confused as I can't think of many budget British made cars other than Fiesta Popular type things.
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No, I wouldnt, not right now.
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I said they sold approx 4000, not sold for £4000.
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So 4000 in seven years it is quite a rare car then. There is 300 of them left so it must be either not rust or it is a classic people want to save.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 19:26
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Reliant Fox?
On second thoughts, no not possible anyone would want one of those things.
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People at work talking of getting new cars has got me thinking again. And this thread too. But not at the budget end. I would still like a car like MLC (A5 Sportback) and might just get one later next year. Not hijacking but knowing how we like thread drift here ;-) Thread is 'my next car' after all and not Stu's new car.
Edit: ooops meant to add I am intrigued what Stu has in mind. 4000 made and only a couple hundred left. We know it will be left field I think.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 23:09
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I still wonder if it's still something to do with Reliant. I hope not.
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It is the car that goes meow. May not find one though. Im giving it two months, after that, ill give up :-)
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I didn't take to response to Reliant Kitten to be definitive. Never heard of it. Best of luck finding one for sale and in budget... and in good condition.
I worked out earlier I might get say £400pm if I opt out of the car scheme.... might be more (probably). This is after tax. A nice dilemma to have. I think I'll take another car instead.
PS Who would want such an old car? (apart from Stu that is)!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Kitten
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 8 Dec 10 at 00:07
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Just looked at my own link. Stu this is a wind up isn't it! Or you're not after one of these. You have a problem with your back and want to risk driving one of these? Again maybe you're not?? I hope not! :-)
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I know, its an odd choice, but I enjoyed my Rialto alot and Im so fed up with mundane cars. I can also change the seats easily to something comfortable.
Im not sure yet, but Im looking into it, I want the driving experience these cars give, that alive feeling that modern cars simply dont have.
Its not certain, I may not find a car even, but Im looking into it. Id have another Rialto but fining garages that will work on them isnt easy, so 4 wheels is just easier, plus the handling is fantastic.
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Rattle gets a hard time on this forum from us - so in comparison this is fun/madness that will be seen as madness by most.
I am lucky that I can think that my next car could be an Audi A5 Sportback but an A4 Saloon 136PS Tecknik is a lot cheaper overall and if I opt for a lowly VW Passat 2.0d Sport I'd be better off than I am now with a Mazda6 2.0d Sport.
I hope you get what you want and it's SAFE!
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>> I know, its an odd choice
An odd choice? Stu that's bonkers. That even looks like a shed, the only thing missing is a pitched roof.
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I owned a Rialto and loved it. By comparison, a Kitten is rather civilised. It also doesnt rust, can do 60 mpg and it can be fixed with a handful of simple tools. And it handles.
Its about as bonkers as a Mini Cooper but with more space and no rust.
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But if your back is bad the last thing you want to be doing is changing a clutch cable at the roadside. I think the Kitten could be great as a toy car but I have a feeling you wish you had kept the Daeweoooooooo.
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I actually like the Kitten because it is so bonkers. However as a daily driver I can only imagine Stu will end up like my late uncle did when he had a Rover SD1, being banned from the AA and RAC for requesting too many callouts.
Stu will end up like my uncle in that his list of bonkers cars will be read at his funeral.
Rob why not go for the A5? Mind you the Passats are very nice cars and probably in the next league above the Mazda 6.
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>> Rob why not go for the A5
Because if I got a nice Passat I'd have around £100 extra in my bank account every month.
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>> I didn't take to response to Reliant Kitten
Why do I type 'to' instead of 'the' which is what I was thinking... should I be concerned and will I end up driving a Reliant Scimitar?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 8 Dec 10 at 00:13
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The Kitten is actually probably a better car than the Serena. The idea was quite clever to put four wheels on a three wheel Robin. They are made of fibreglass too so not much rust to worry about.
They were supposed to be quite nippy as well in the day.
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Whether or not it will be suitable, Im not sure yet, Ive got to have a closer look at one, the interior is far more spacious than the 3-wheelers due to the design, so its just an idea at this stage.
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The Acclaim is really just an eaerly bland Accord with a bit of Roverisation to it. I think they were only on the sale for two years - they were that bad. Still it was the start of a long relationship with Honda.
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>>>I want the driving experience these cars give, that alive feeling that modern cars simply dont have.
Oh you want an alive feeling... then you're mad to consider 4 wheels. This looks ideal.... great paint job and air horns....
cgi.ebay.co.uk/1988-RELIANT-RIALTO-GLS-SALOON-RED-/190467162353?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2c58ba40f1
I see the Kitten club/register calls its newsletter the Mewsletter... says it all really.
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Been there, done that already.
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Stu, you are being criminally irresponsible by choosing a car that poses such personal risks in the event of an accident.
Frankly I think you are bordering on insanity. The only reason you need a car that feels alive is because you persist in searching out and buying the dried up dregs from the bottom of the automotive mundane barrel.
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Only risks are to myself and infact by not driving a large, heavy car, thats a positive for anyone I have an accident with surely?
I may not get one yet, for my budget, I may not be able to get a car in the condition I want, so you can leave the drama for Eastenders ;-)
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The only reason I knew about the Reliant kitten is because I saw one in Street Machine magazine, but I don't think it's what you had in mind, this one had a V8!
Should be OK if you can find one. Stick a Volvo seat in it and you'll be laughing :-)
Looked a bit like this one
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmbmafKYcXY
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Thats the useful thing about these cars. The seats are attached with two metal plates either side of the floor, so as long as the seats physically fit in the space, you can fit just about anything. My Rialto had seats from a Mini Mayfair which were very comfortable ( turns out Mini seats are comfy when attached to softer suspension! ).
I know Reliants horrify this lot, which I find extremely amusing because I somewhat doubt the majority have ever driven one, let alone owned one. The safety thing is an easy argument, but id start with motorbikes and cyclists before moving onto cars of any type :)
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270675642855
Got to be the best way of blowing £1,600 known to man.
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If an MOT'd Renault 4 pops up on Ebay I might be tempte but I dont think an A8 is going to be useful. Fun yes and ive driven a 4.2 - fab car by any measure, but its also of little use.
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Think ive found the car, not available till January. Not what I intended, but Im going with the flow.
Zero, take your medication ;-) its worse than you could ever imagine!
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The only car which worse than imagination is the 2CV.
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I have faith in Stu, i think this will be diabolical on a scale i can't imagine yet. He's never failed to improve my understanding of that word yet ;-)
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You see, stu has a fundamental problem to overcome. He limits his search for sheds by excluding certain countries and makes.
Fiat for example. He could delight us all by buying a FIAT Ritmo.
Or an early non VAG SEAT
Renault has many fine stallions for his stable of sheds - a Renault 9 or 11 or 14 for example.
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>> The Acclaim is really just an eaerly bland Accord with a bit of Roverisation to
>> it. I think they were only on the sale for two years - they were
>> that bad. Still it was the start of a long relationship with Honda.
>>
>>>>> rattle
i keep reading that you slag things you know nothing about
i really get bored by it
let me put the record straight again
the accord for its time was a really good car well sorted economic drove exceptionally well and was a good seller
ps i dont sell or repair computers because its not my forte
please take note before i get bored
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But it was no Triumph. I never said the Accord was a bad car, I just said it was bland like most early 80's jap cars.
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Says that fella who drives a Polish Fiat.
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It is not a Polish FIAT, that factory rather ironically ended up in the hands of Daweoo. My car is made Poland by FIAT but it is not an FSO. (Polski FIAT).
I guess they make Chevvy's in the old FSO factory now.
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The Panda, 500 and Ka are made in a FIAT factory in Poland. That makes the car a Polish built FIAT. Stu never said it was an FSO ;-)
And well made they seem to be. The old Honda Accord's that were also Rover's were very well built... had a few as hire cars.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 8 Dec 10 at 22:51
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True the Sciecento and Cinq were made there too and before that the old 126bis.
It is just the FSO's were called Polish FIATs (well Polksi FIAT) before FIAT banned them from using that name in case people thought they were actually FIATs. I always remember we were quite posh because we had a Lada and not an FSO.
To be fair the Accliam in many ways was a good car it showed BL how to make cars properly etc.
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>>..that were also Rovers were very well built.>>
The Rover 600, based on the Accord.
The Accord, of course, was built at Swindon and in its early run the only colour available was a darkish blue...:-)
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Its made in Poland and its a Fiat. Therefore its a Polish Fiat.
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And some FSO's are probably better than some of the car's Stu is thinking of! :-)
The Polish built FIAT's seem well built to be for the price. Not BMW 5 series quality but for a small car they are fine. Not death traps that's for sure.
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>> I guess they make Chevvy's in the old FSO factory now.
>>
Interesting. I had a hire car in Montenegro a while back, a Chevrolet Kalos. The driving experience was so reminiscent of a FIAT 127 and a Yugo 45 that it lead me to believe they were using the same gearbox design at least. I didn't know they were being built in the Polski FIAT factory, that adds credence to my theory!
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I am with Zero Zero and others here - this car is not suitable for a main car on todays roads. I shudder to think what would happen if an HGV ran into it! More on that in a second.
As a fun car not doing many miles fine but as a car to be used daily - come on. When this car was new the roads were nowhere near as busy as they are now. I genuinely think a lot on here, including RF/Zero of course, have your safety in mind.
Back to the HGV... I will send to the mods a picture of the hire car I was driving near Milan when an HGV crashed into it. I'd like the mods to forward it to you for you to (a) see the damage, because this cannot have been a high speed collision although I have little memory of what led to the accident and (b) to know we did survive it.
Please get a more modern car which has survivable crash protection for your sake, your wife safe and (future) children's' sake.
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Baby is 18 months away right now, by then ill have a second car for family stuff, this car is just for me. A last bit of fun before I give in to being beige.
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Wait for the image from the mods that I sent. The damage sustained by me hire car makes you realise that modern superminis are strong. What you're after is not.
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Nor are motorbikes. Find a picture of one of them which has been driven over by an HGV, then ask bike riders to justify their risks.
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Then sorry to offend but Stu you are stubbornly ignoring good advice in this thread. I feel sorry for your wife. You would rather drive a deathtrap and risk injury/death instead of getting the safest car you could. I find this unbelievable to be honest.
After the accident in Italy I decided that having as much metal between me and anything behind was a good thing. Within reason - I cannot drive a bus or HGV. So I will probably not get say a Scirocco and have a nice car on the cheap and go for an A4/A5/Passat/PassatCC etc.
If the mods do forward the photo, what is not shown is the metal roof of the car buckled and came into the car. A 'v' along the roof as it got shortened. This metal protrusion ripped the back of my head to the skull (medics were slightly surprised no more damage done to me tbh... but I did have a CT scan in case) and anyone in the rear two seats would be dead. No doubt at all. In fact the lorry driver thought he'd killed me and was brought to the side of the car to see I was alive apparently. I was not conscious.
So yes go and risk killing yourself. And stop when you have children.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 8 Dec 10 at 23:09
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I think it is all within reason. I could have bought a safer car in terms of NCAP for the money but it would have been second hand and that can decrease safety if none OEM parts have been used etc.
If I was doing a lot of motorway work I would certainly want something bigger and safer though.
Accidents happen fault or no fault.
To see how far things have come on you only need to compare the NCAP results for the Rover 100 and a modern supermini.
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Rattle compared with what Stu is suggesting you have a tank. And most of your driving is local so your choice is spot on. Maybe Stu will come back and say he's only ever going to do 20mph in it max.
If this was the old days of a similar motoring forum, and if Stu posted this as a newish user, he'd be called a troll mind. He probably drives an Audi RS6 Estate in reality.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 8 Dec 10 at 23:16
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I've been called a troll plenty of times on here but to be fair it was when I had my bangers and had very bad luck with them.
I do believe Stu is completly genuine just has a different taste in cars to most of us. I do think sometimes that he wants to say he has owned just about every car ever made though. For me swapping cars and doing all the DVLA crap and buying and selling is nothing but a nightmare. I'ved owned five cars in four years and I have had enough of the process.
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There are hundreds of thousands of cars on the roads which arent the safest possible car the owners can buy. Look at those driving Chysler Voyagers which are supposed to be particularly nasty when folded up. Doesnt stop many people buckling their little darlings into a car known to be very dodgy.
Why it is that supposedly sensible people go to pieces about car safety, but ignore the very real everyday risks in life is frankly beyond me. Ive never understood it.
I do understand that there are cars that some people dont like, thats fair enough, but to heap a quite so much emphasis on crash safety when there are plenty here with older cars which are also very dangerous in crashes makes it obvious its a matter of prejudice rather than sound advice because ive not seen anyone jumping on them about the safety of their old car. It makes it far less credible.
You have also assumed Im still after a Reliant...
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I always think that people drive rond in the original Votagers out of ignorance. I am sure they think because it is a big car they must be save. As soon as Blair saw the crash test he sold his.
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>> So yes go and risk killing yourself. And stop when you have children.
>>
Doesn't he already have children from a previous marriage?
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Just the one but his mother doesnt believe children should have fathers, nor does the legal system :(
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>> Just the one but his mother doesnt believe children should have fathers, nor does the
>> legal system :(
>>
... except for the child support you pay.
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Oh yeah, they all believe in that. Thats why I can only afford old cars.
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>> Just the one but his mother doesnt believe children should have fathers
Maybe not a father willing to drive an unsafe car... says a lot about attitude. snip following complaints Sorry Stu but your opinion in this thread says lots to me at least.
I'll bow out of Stu's car threads as I think he's either trying to provoke opinion or has very different opinions. Maybe others like Zero ought to do the same? He'll stubbornly ignore our opinions.
I wonder what he'll think of the hire car damage photo sent a little earlier - thanks PU.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Thu 9 Dec 10 at 08:48
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Im looking at Omega diesels. I chickened out of another Reliant. The Omega is harder to come by than the Reliant though.
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Not a bad choice actually :) I always thought Omegas were underrated. Probably as good as a 3 series of the same era.
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>>Maybe not a father willing to drive an unsafe car...<<
His mother drives him around in a 9 year old Seicento. A rear end impact doesnt bear thinking about, so I doubt my cars were her issue.
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The Omega is a well built car. There will be more than the other car available. Don't forget Senators i'd looking for really old cars
snip following some complaints
Last edited by: Pugugly on Thu 9 Dec 10 at 08:46
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The references to stu's marriage above and the last remark rtj40, have crossed the line for me.
Pat
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The Omega seems a bit underwhelming stood next to a Senator or even a Carlton... :-)
Car Mechanics magazine did a feature on the Omega a wee while back, i think it was just a buyers guide rather than anything with guts but it was presented as a real DIY possibility on the cheap.
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Call me stupid. Daft even, Lacking in taste perhaps. But I keep looking wistfully and ebay and autotrader listings for
Ford Cougars.
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>> Ford Cougars.
Any "cougar" would do for me :-)
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>> Ford Cougars.
Cruelly underrated car. Had a V6 for a weekend back in the late 90's. Great engine, brilliant chassis. Apart from the cheap American plastic interior, and 19 mpg, I thought it was fabulous! :-)
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A previous employer had a fleet of Carltons which were pretty much faultless over 3 years and 100-150,000 miles. They replaced them with a fleet of Omegas, which were so poor that they got four of them replaced by the lease company in the first year. Constant engine management faults with the (then new) Ecotec engines, electrical gremlins and build quality issues. The Carltons were completely unbreakable, the Omegas were crap in comparison. I recall similar experiences when Cavaliers were swapped for Vectras.
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>> I'll bow out of Stu's car threads as I think he's either trying to provoke
>> opinion or has very different opinions. Maybe others like Zero ought to do the same?
>> He'll stubbornly ignore our opinions.
>>
But then you couldn't resist, and continued to contribute, enough to cause pda Pat to complain and get your comments snipped.
Stu take heed of or ignore advice/opinions as he is free to do and can buy whatever he wants. Whether Stu is trying to provoke opinions or not, that is not something for rtj70 get uptight up about.
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...enough to cause pda Pat to complain and get your comments snipped...
Fair play to Pat for being upfront and complaining on the forum.
I read rtj70's comments and didn't find them offensive - only a close follower of the forum would have understood what he meant.
So both mine and Pat's opinions are aired in public, which I think is more honest than anonymous complaints.
These things are better dealt with in the open, but old habits seem to die hard and the first reaction is complain then cut, snip, hide, censor.
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Let me make this clear.
I certainly didn't ask for the comments to be removed, I merely gave them a thumbs down with NO comment to the Mods.
I don't like the anonymous system and have voiced that opinion in the past.
My post was made to ensure that I wasn't voting anonymously and was quite happy to face any flak for that vote from rtj or anyone else.
Pat
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>> Let me make this clear.
>> I certainly didn't ask for the comments to be removed, I merely gave them a
>> thumbs down with NO comment to the Mods.
>>
>> I don't like the anonymous system and have voiced that opinion in the past.
>>
>> My post was made to ensure that I wasn't voting anonymously and was quite happy
>> to face any flak for that vote from rtj or anyone else.
>>
>> Pat
>>
So a mod was heavy handed and used you as a convenient excuse. I thought the "red button" was supposed to be a members-collective-automatic-moderating tool.
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I'm upset about it.
I missed it all.
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Yes
Then he called me Gran.
Pat
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>> Yes
>>
>> Then he called me Gran.
>>
>> Pat
You prefer Nanny?
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Don't you start too:)
Pat
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Sorry Shorty ;0
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 9 Dec 10 at 10:46
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The suns shining and I can conquer the world today Zero, so even though you seem to exist in a parallel universe it does include you.
Pat
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>> So a mod was heavy handed and used you as a convenient excuse.
Not at all. If the red circle is pressed you have the option to leave a comment which gets notified to the moderators. If you leave no comment then nothing arrives in our mailboxes. Yes, there were several comments made, of which we received, but none of which were from Pat. PU acted on the comments we received from several people using the red circle and leaving comments, along with other people who used the "report message" button.
In short, you can use the red circle just to rate down the post, but if you don't enter a comment then it doesn't get notified to us. The other button "report message" will get notified to us.
Vx.
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So my theory of standing up to be counted doesn't really work then?
Pat
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>> arrives in our mailboxes. Yes, there were several comments made, of which we received, but
>> none of which were from Pat. PU acted on the comments we received from several
>> people using the red circle and leaving comments, along with other people who used the
>> "report message" button.
>>
Apologies, as I obviously did not notice that the plural - "some complaints" - was mentioned by the snipper. Should the red face not appear more gloomy or angrier the more people have clicked on it?
Last edited by: John H on Thu 9 Dec 10 at 10:37
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>> Should the red face not appear more gloomy or angrier the more people have clicked on it?
If you hover your mouse cursor over the red face it should give you the stages of which it goes through before the post is automatically hidden.
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It should John - if more people used them, they eventually remove the post automatically disappears in its entirety - if everyone that had notified us by the traditional route had clicked on the red button that's what would have happened, in all honesty an edit was the best route in this instance. Obviously iffy thinks I'm wrong and that's his right but other people have rights to enjoy the place as well.
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>> ..... but other people have rights to enjoy the place as well.
>>
It would seem that this forum has already become something of a 'closed shop', with obvious animosities bubbling under - some tongue-in-cheek, others possibly less so.
The chances of anyone being truly offended (a casual 'passer-by', for example) seem slim.
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...Obviously iffy thinks I'm wrong and that's his right but other people have rights to enjoy the place as well...
Decisions have to be made and someone's rights will be subsumed.
In this case, it's rtj70's right to post what he wants.
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>> In this case, it's rtj70's right to post what he wants.
>>
Rights? What rights? This is not a wiki-car4play.
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That's your opinion iffy and you're entitled to it of course.
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>> It should John - if more people used them, they eventually remove the post automatically
>> disappears in its entirety - if everyone that had notified us by the traditional route
>>
Understood. As I said, I was mistaken in thinking that the snip was due to a single complaint from pda Pat. The red face, when I looked at at it this morning, seemed to be only at the first frowning stage. It now appears to be at the second stage of being Mr Angry.
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...It now appears to be at the second stage of being Mr Angry...
Yes, although the 'offensive' part of the post has been removed which means there's nothing left for anyone to rate.
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Now thats no fun. I have a nice lie in and miss it all.
I like someone didnt like my comment about my ex/system not wanting my son to have a father - she doesnt because she blocks it. Anyone who has been a part of the process would know thats the reality, regardless of the fluffy image many want to portray. Family courts are secret because the public would find it all too ugly.
Back to cars... Ive read very positive reports and very negative reports on the Omega, seems a mixed bag.
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I had an elite estate for a weekend. Was deeply underwhelmed.
No worse than that - Disappointed was the word.
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I drove a manual diesel saloon, some years ago and I thought it was a cracker.
Of course, it seems in old age the cars seem to get quite attention seeking. Seems highly rated for comfort and the diesel auto seems a well liked combo, but gearboxes can be iffy and electrical anything can go wrong.
Its no wonder I end up with old far eastern stuff usually.
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The few Omegas I drove felt very well built. It was not a sporty car but then they were mostly 2.0 GLS spec and a few were automatics. As a cruiser they were fine in my opinion. Quite big too. Now the Vectra/Insignia is around that size.
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I feel I should post something here to show we've all shook hands and are friends again:)
How about.....haven't Astra's got huge recently?
Pat:)
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...How about.....haven't Astra's got huge recently?...
And the estate's no longer an estate.
Isn't it a sportback or something?
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You know I'm sort of reminded by all this of watching my son and his primary school friends at play. They spend more time arguing about the rules of the game than playing it and when one of them is losing they introduce a new rule...
Time to move on perhaps?
:-)
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Great minds Humph, we are truly superior.
Pat
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Well, you know, if you exclude the stuff people say when someone disagrees with them and read between the lines, ive had some very useful feedback on my ideas.
I know roughly the things I want from my next car, but getting the right balance isnt easy on my budget. Ive also discounted a Serena and a Reliant, not wholly on the basis of what people have said here, but its always a factor.
Ive got a Merc estate in my mind at the moment, maybe the 300D. Ive still got the Picnic on my shortlist, but I want a few more cars as none are numerous and I want a pool of good choices to search from.
rtj70 - thanks for the pic, id changed my mind on Reliant beforehand, but you have a point re safety. Im looking at small tanks as we speak ;-)
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...Im looking at small tanks as we speak ;-)...
Most irresponsible, think of all the poor saps in their Reliant Kittens who you will maim and kill in the event of a collision.
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It might help if you could re-state your requirements, Stu - they do seem to shift like drifting sand (or snow) :-)
Possibly in another thread - this one is getting somewhat unwieldy.
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Stu,
Start a new volume on this one if you want....
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Stu - will this be the BMW engined Omega or the later one? The BMW engine is a tough old beast, the only (small) things to watch out for is failure of the injection pump, and the fuel draining back causing poor starting. It was detuned for the Omega - well, they couldn't have it outdoing a 5 series could they?
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My next car ;-) - Alastairw
