Saw this car in three-quarter rear view in the supermarket car park. I thought it was some sort of new big Peugeot. I thought it looked OK for that. Went over and looked at it.
It was a Jaguar XJ. Immediately, and anyway from close up, it didn't seem nearly as slick and swish, high boxy rear, a bit slabsided too.
Funny though, that it should look OK as a Peugeot from thirty yards, and fail to carry conviction as a Jaguar at close quarters. I didn't look for more than a few seconds but the wheel and facia had the Wurlitzer organ look of these new BMW Bentleys, steering wheel looks as if it's wearing golf kit or spats or something.
They used to call Jaguars 'bookies' Bentleys' when I was a child. Then from the appearance of the XK120 Jaguar ploughed its own furrow and became a serious marque producing quite a few excellent cars with real character. Alas, with this thing they have reverted to type. But then Bentleys have gone downmarket too, whatever they may cost and whatever their owners may think.
This XJ looks a lumbering thing although I'm sure it doesn't drive like that. The XF is a hundred times better proportioned as well as being a better size.
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Still just a saloon though eh ? Outmoded design that.
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Not sure whether you're joking or not Humph - but I think you're right.
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Not joking. Cars should be capable of multitasking to be credible these days. What on earth is a saloon for anymore ? No longer a relevant design.
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Relevant to whom Humph? Saloon cars are more rigid and quieter than hatchbacks, and probably safer in shunts too. Not everyone needs to carry a mass of clobber around with them all the time.
I may have owned more saloons than some here. I like them. Perhaps I am outmoded too. Don't give a damn.
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Good for you AC ! Quite right. But...if Jaguar were to make a 5 series Touring competitor or an X5 basher they might just sell a lot of cars. With a slightly seedy gentleman's club on wheels such as the XJ, I just don't think they will. Not enough industries left with too few captains thereof to buy them.
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I don't know Humph. Big Cats with leaping bonnet mascots are seen as a something a bit different outside the Golf clubs here in Germany. A step apart from the run of the mill Mercedes, BMW and four ringed VW crowd.
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>> Big Cats with leaping bonnet mascots are seen as a something a bit different outside the Golf clubs here in Germany.
You're right of course gmac. But most of the people I know here who like the idea of a Jaguar are thinking about an E-Type or Series 2/3 XJ. I have a number of well off customers who have the odd Jag or two in the garage, but nothing newer than about 1979.
I know a couple of people who swapped their company BMWs for a Jag but then went back to BMW once the novelty wore off and they realised the ownership experience didn't live up to the dream, especially in the case of the X-Type.
I actuall considered an XF when I was looking for a replacement for my last 5-Series, mainly because the interior looked so nice. When I investigated business leasing rates I was shocked to discover the diesel XF was similar in price to a Mercedes S-Class or BMW 7. Then I discovered the only Jaguar dealer in Munich is the other side of the city, so I didn't even bother going to the showroom.
I still think the Jaguar brand is strong enough in Germany to support strong sales if the car were competitive to the domestic products in the driving experience (which the X-Type certainly wasn't), the pricing and the dealer network. I don't think Jaguar are interested in Europe though, the latest in your face styling and lack of estate cars suggests they are targeting the US and Asia.
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I don't quite get the new XJ either, AC. It's a welcome departure from the stuck-in-the-mud old style, but it seems to be aping what Citroen did first with the C6 rather than ploughing a distinctively Jaguar furrow.
One press ad did it no favours at all, showing a dark XJ in an underground car park, with a line of reflections along one flank that looked to me like the effect of a close encounter with a concrete pillar.
But I remember being unconvinced when the XF was launched. I still have reservations about that - gill slits belong on elasmobranchs, not Panthera species. And surely the cat badge ought to be leaping forwards, not sideways. But if a bottle-green one with a cream interior appeared on my drive tomorrow, I might make a token search for my Volvo, but I expect I could live with it; and my 9yo would be beside himself - he considers the XF to be the very model of a modern, erm, motor car.
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Each to his or her own I guess. I agree that the rear is a bit odd. A little Hyundai if anything. The rear lights look great though when on. they were apparently designed to look like a Jaguar's claws had raked down the rear of the car (that's marketing guff I suppose!), but the rest is lovely. On the road, especially in a dark colour, they have huge presence. It is such a modern departure from the XJ's of old that even with the last ones seemed just a progression of the style of the XJ40.
I have sat in both a standard wheelbase and a long wheel base new XJ and they are a beautiful piece of kit from my perspective. Stunning. This was in a dealers on a launch night. After a while I then got into an XF, a car I much admire, and one I thought was at it's peak of good style and modern taste, but after the XJ it seemed a bit plain-jane. Not what I expected to feel at all!
The local dealer has yet to sell an XJ though....
I went on a factory tour a while ago and we were split into three groups. The XJ production line had too many people wanting to see it, so I went arround the XK line, but all around the factory were literally hundreds of XJ's. This was just before they were being sent out to dealers and new owners. Quite a sight. Heaven knows what total value when they start at over £50k.
I have no links to Jaguar though, just own an old one and I am in the enthusiasts club.
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Oh, I would also say the boot was really disapointing. I don't like saloons as they are not as practical as an estate, agreed.
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I sat in a new XJ a while ago. I don't like the styling at all, I think both the XJ and the XF look like Hyundais from the side and rather anonymous from the front. I wasn't particularly keen on the interior of the XJ either. Those round air vents plonked on top of the dash are an eyesore and I found the computerised instrument panel somehow uncomfortable on my eyes. I find the interior of the XF somehow more appealing, despite some cheap plasticky bits.
I'm not the target customer for an XJ though, doubtless Jaguar have done their homework in designing an XJ to entice captains of industry to flock to the showrooms.
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i drove my brothers new 3.0d portfolio model xj last weekend and the ride is delightful. soft when needed but not at all bumpy. i have recently driven a new rolls ghost and i think the jaguar rides better and quieter. the deisel 3.0ltr is a very quick car but i would buy the 5.0ltr petrol supercharged if i could buy one.
the fit and finish all over are perfect and easily match the ghost internally, with great soft leather and wool carpets and over rugs.
well worth the money i think and i like the styling outside but some may like the old shape but that went on too long and had nowhere to go style wise.
however the ghost is a whole new story and a car that big has no right to be so fast and so comfortable at the same time.
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One of my mates bought the new XJ a few weeks ago (3.0 diesel).
It's a terrific looking car, has all the toys and during my spell behind the wheel it greatly impressed for comfort, ride, handling, quietness and the ability to shift very rapidly when asked.
The mate in question has had a wide range of new Mercedes (E and S-Class) over the years, plus a Bentley (nothing but trouble) and even an RR, but he's as happy as Larry with the Jag.
I've seen at least two others in the town as well (Jag XJs, not Larry)...:-)
Last edited by: Stuartli on Tue 16 Nov 10 at 20:15
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OK then, for a bit of fun, who'd like to have a go at profiling the potential customer for one of these ? You know the sort of thing, age group, gender, occupation, earnings, lifestyle, hobbies, interests etc.
I'll start,
60 years old
male
anchor news reader at regional TV station
£100-150k
golfer
drinker
suspected wife beater
had a bit of trouble with the inland revenue but nothing was ever proven
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 16 Nov 10 at 21:32
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Come on Humph you're just trying to resist the inevitable. That oil well breaks in your back garden and you'll be hammering the door down at your your local dealership for a custom-built shooting brake :)
Last edited by: gmac on Tue 16 Nov 10 at 21:37
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>> for a custom-built shooting brake :)
Now you're talking...
:-)
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Bet the exhaust still resonates through the floor without 150 boxes of Hush Puppies to dampen it down. ;-Q
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Anyway, I'm more of a modernist "crossover" sort of chap these days. Even I find that a little disturbing..
To be fair, it's not that I actually dislike the Jag XJ, they are undoubtedly glorious to drive. I suppose I'd just like to have seen some more commercial body styles run in the range alongside it. As with the brands it competes with. I think they are chasing a very narrow and rapidly shrinking market sector.
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The new XJ is not to my liking - the back end is wrong and the C pillar being black is poor.
The XF is a car I like a lot - so how have they managed to come up with an XF that is so good but a top of the range car that can so divide opinions?
Audi seem to be following the approach of Jaguar of old - a family look. But in my opinion it works. You can tell an A4, A5, new A6, A7 and A8 are all related.
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"You can tell an A4, A5, new A6, A7 and A8 are all related."
Why is that a good thing? If I'd shelled out for an A8 I'd be well miffed if someone thought I was driving around in an A6. The flagship shouldn't resemble the rest of the fleet.
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>> Audi seem to be following the approach of Jaguar of old - a family look.
>> But in my opinion it works. You can tell an A4, A5, new A6, A7
>> and A8 are all related.
I don't like Audis particularly, but they've got some nicely styled cars at the moment. Except the A7 of course, that is a bit of an eyesore.
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Audi are bringing out an A3 saloon - slightly odd that.
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It just has to be for a bet !
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What's odd about it ?
Someone has to go head to head with the Ford Focus saloon. Ford are nicking revenue !
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>> The XF is a car I like a lot - so how have they managed
>> to come up with an XF that is so good but a top of the
>> range car that can so divide opinions?
>>
What was the donor car this time ?
Last time Peugeot took a Hindustan Ambassador, one circus pachyderm's posterior et voilà 206 with the pachyderm signature imprint in the dashboard plastic.
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>> Last time Peugeot took a Hindustan Ambassador, one circus pachyderm's posterior et voilà 206 with
>> the pachyderm signature imprint in the dashboard plastic.
Guess you mean this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7eOVpBCtPo
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That's the one, though how you get $20k into a closed currency country is anyone's guess.
Last edited by: gmac on Tue 16 Nov 10 at 22:03
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As a teenager I always wanted a Jaguar - this was the era of the 5.3V12 Xj12, XJ5.3c and XJS - in a position to afford its successor if I was inclined they don't float my boat anymore - which is sad in a way.....
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I have a customer who has an XJ12C. Absolutely beautiful car, upgraded with Bosch fuel injection to replace the original Lucas Prince of Darkness system so it actually starts on cold mornings and periodically returns double figures mpg. The Series 2 XJ were the last Jags that I really found desirable. I think the rot started stylistically with the americanised Series 3.
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Those pillerless windows were extraordinary...
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>>I have a customer who has an XJ12C.
>> Absolutely beautiful car
>>
I agree. I good friend had one almost new and I shared the driving with him to Spain so we were able to give some wellie en route.
We tried an experiment that was in a road test. Set the radio at a comfortable quiet volume whilst travelling at 20 mph and gently increase the speed to 120 mph and note that there was no need to adjust the volume.
The other things I recall.
Start the engine and it was only the tacho that reminded you you were fired up :-)
Unlike today, it was unacceptable to have bonnet louvres or shark gills in a saloon so when you stopped after a "steady session" the heat coming out from the front wheel arches was to be avoided.
It had three fans in the engine bay. One belt driven and one electric for the radiator and a third one for its battery enclosed in a box.
What a car in its day and still looks good.
www.greatescapecars.co.uk/images/library/files/xjc_06.JPG
( not a V12 but shows the shape) I recall those doors were so big and heavy
www.cwwcardesign.com/news/magazin/jaguar_xj_12_coupe.html
www.xjc.com.au/story.htm
The joys of a rebuild & upgrade
jaguar.fiboy.com/XJ12C.htm
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>> The joys of a rebuild & upgrade
>> jaguar.fiboy.com/XJ12C.htm
I'm by no means an originality freak when it comes to classic cars, but even so I think that finnish guy has made a right pigs ear of that lovely old XJ Coupe. Series 3 rear lights, extended rear wheel arches and a dodgy restyle of the front. Shame, there can't be that many XJ Coupes left.
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Very long time ago I had a loan of a then newish TWR XJS for a couple of days. I freely admit to having been rather taken with it. Won't say where or when but in the dead of night I drove that car faster than anything I had ever driven anything before or indeed have since. It was outrageously quick for its time and even now wouldn't embarrass itself. Made me want a Lister for years. Never did get to drive one of those though. Almost certainly won't ever get the chance now. That TWR was the first car I'd ever seen with a phone in it. I ordered a chinese carry out on that phone from a restaurant in a town 30 miles away just to see if I could get there in time to collect it...It was still hot enough to eat by the time I got it back to the flat I was sharing with some other guys.
:-)
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i must be mentally many older than my real age as i love the desighns of all the jaguars for the last 50 yrs.
ive been tempted by an xjs for a long time but then my sense comes back to me. i remember driving a 6.0ltr v12 from hinckly back to leicester and the strectch was pretty straight and saw an indicated 160 mph on the clock on a very early summers morning and even at that speed it was a freat ride
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I have to disagree, having seen a few 'in the metal' I think the XJ is gorgeous. It looks great in sombre blacks and greys but also (for the braver / more foolhardy) pretty stunning in white.
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Hey nyx2k, who says you need to use sense in life? A bit of madness sometimes keeps us sane the rest of the time!
I went a bit mad and bought an old XJ-S convertible just under 2 years ago and love it to bits. A few small problems, but outweighed by the sheer joy of top-down V12 motoring in the Spring and Summer. Sheer bliss. Cheap to buy, and insure, cheap to fix and for relatively small miles the huge thirst can be lived with. And it goes........(in every sense)
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i like the xj12 saloon car as well.
they seem to be very cheap now as i suppose they are believed to be rusty and very unreliable but i dont care as i wouldnt be going too far in it.
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Join a local version of the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club who will know which local specialist garages are about and then pay a small fee for someone there to give a potential purchase the once over. Mean's you will get a decent car (and there is a wide range to choose from) and it is unlikely to be a lemon.
One local chap to me has a stunning older XJ40 (immaculate) 4.0 going for under £3k. On new wheels and rims, lovely leather, OK fuel consumption. There are lots about, but the V12 puts people of meaning that they fetch a lower price. I prefer the V12 because............... it's a V12! So creamy smooth with loads of grunt.
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my point about the v12 is the mpg is spoor with the 3.2 and 4ltr anyway that might as well be able to say i have a v12.
im not sure on the xj40 as i want the rounded headlamps.
ive looked at another 2 on ebay in 3.2 6cyl guise and both were nice runners and very cheap at £1500 but the idea of going to the owners club is a good one as someone left a note on my immaculate 1991 190e in the caR PARK TODAY SAYING HE WAS FROM THE OWNERS CLUB AND WOULD LIKE TO PAY ME A LOT MORE THAN THE GUIDE PRICE AS IT WAS SO CLEAN AND ONE OWNER SINCE 1991.
sorry about that shouting but i cant be bothered to retype that lot
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XJ... a disappointment - Runfer D'Hills
