Motoring Discussion > HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: nyx2k	Replies: 89

Sun 14 Nov 10 18:08   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - nyx2k

as posted by hj today on left foot braking Some drivers condemn left foot braking on the basis of their own lack of coordination, entirely forgetting that other drivers are much more coordinated than they are. But if you don't left foot brake while manoeuvring you do not have full control of your car and stand quite a high chance of killing a spouse, child or grandchiled. About 100 people are killed that wy evey year. And guess what? The drivers who killed them almost invariably blame their cars. HJ so he thinks we are all careless potential murderers. im so glad i left that site. stuping little man Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 18:28   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Dog

I fail to see what all ths ere left foot braking on autos is all about, I have and can lfb, but I've only felt the need for it once maybe twice in the last 10 years, I back up my fairly long narrow drive every night in the dark and I control the car via the throttle position like anyone would ... with a torque converter auto, Ah! perhaps Aitchieboy is talking automated manual jobbies. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 18:45   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Manatee

No, he means ordinary autos. And since he modified his recommendation to "while manoeuvring", I'm beginning to wonder if he's right. There are numerous cases every year of automatics launching themselves out of driveways and straight across the road, or through the back of garages, or indeed over people. The cause is almost always the driver pressing the accelerator instead of the brake. I say I'm beginning to wonder, rather than all out agreeing, because I'm not convinced that the kind of people who have these accidents wouldn't just use the wrong foot. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 18:51   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Netsur

I left foot brake pretty much all the time in my auto (and I drive autos and manuals regularly). It started as an experiment to see how it would feel and very quickly it became second nature. I would never say to anyone that they were stupid not to use it, but if in a tight spot and shunting the car forwards and back, especially around people or cars or on a hill I would strongly recommend it. The people who condemn it are blinkered for not trying it or considering how it might benefit them. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:02   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - -

I don't LFB as a rule, maybe once in a blue moon whilst in a tight spot, i did have a dickens of a job loading a DSG petrol turbo Audi A4 once, getting it to move about 6" over a bump with the truck deck above waiting to take the bonnet out wasn't fun...just as the clutch automatically engaged the revs would be just right for turbo spooling up so full power engaged or nothing, probably the worst i've encountered for that. Torque converter auto's are usually infinitely controllable to anyone with an ounce of nous who treats the throttle NOT like an on/off switch so no need to LFB. Automated manuals shut the gas off the moment you touch the brake so they're NBG for LFB anyway. Those who launch themselves through plate glass windows etc i really wonder would they be any better if they had 6 feet and the ability to control any of them. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 20:40   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Bagpuss

>> Automated manuals shut the gas off the moment you touch the brake so they're NBG for LFB anyway. My torque converter automatic does that. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 20:49   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - -

>> My torque converter automatic does that. >> I suppose that's progress and it would prevent the panic 2 feet down emergency stop ending in disaster, luckily 'creep' is usually enough for most manouevres. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:03   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Tooslow

Well I don't drive an automatic so I'm no position to comment but, hey, let's not let practical experience get in the way! IIRC Graham Hill learnt to use two feet when he drove the gas turbine thingy. Was it a BRM? And if it's good enough for him.... In the past, on the rare occasions I have driven an automatic I've been fine right up to the end of the journey when (you know what's coming don't you) I would firmly press down the clutch. Except that it was the brake. Good job everyone was wearing seatbelts. So left foot braking? I would definitely have a shot at learning it if I drove an auto. As for all of these people who kill or injure themselves, and sadly others, it's odd how it is always the car at fault, never them. And if you're going to have an arguement about lfb, or any other subject, I don't see any need to make it personal and abuse the gentleman in question. It's not a practice we see a lot of around here. John Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:16   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - nyx2k

And if you're going to have an arguement about lfb, or any other subject, I don't see any need to make it personal and abuse the gentleman in question. It's not a practice we see a lot of around here. I'm so sorry you see yourself as the self appointed forum police. i didnt think we were having an argument here, i thought this was a forum for discussion so as you see it is you who are using agressive wording which i find offensive. clap trap is not now and has ever been an offensive word. lfb as a practice has it merits but what is not on is hj pointing out that people who dont follow this practice are potential killers or at least dont care about their driving standards Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:26   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Tooslow

"stupid little man" is though. See, you're doing it again :-) John Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:29   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Fullchat

I've been called 'stuping' and 'agressive'. It has also been suggested that I am prone to talking 'claptrap'. I was offended but I am very sensitive ;-) Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 14 Nov 10 at 19:30 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:06   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Fullchat

'Muscle memory' (there is such a thing) for non auto car drivers or those who were brought up on manual is left foot for clutch and right foot for throttle and brake. You are either braking or accelerating not normally both together. If, as is suggested, it is for low speed manoeuvring say on an incline then there is a handbrake. Having said that I did manage to become proficient in the art when I was rallying but that's a different discipline. I wouldn't normally revert as a matter of course. Takes practice and brain to be in gear. Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 14 Nov 10 at 19:07 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:37   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - swiss tony

>> Having said that I did manage to become proficient in the art when I was >> rallying but that's a different discipline. I wouldn't normally revert as a matter of course. >> Takes practice and brain to be in gear. >> Just driving requires 'practice and brain to be in gear'. IMHO to many people get behind the wheel, needing either more of the 1st, or their brain being in neutral.. BTW in an auto I drive 2 footed, and have no problem swapping between manuals and auto's, BTW my own car is an auto. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:11   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - henry k

>>The people who condemn it are blinkered for not trying it or considering how it might benefit them. >> That is a bit of generalisation. I am sure many can work out the potential benefits if you can adapt to it. I suspect some folks find it difficult LF braking and are not prepared to risk an incident during the learning phase. I have often heard it said that it is not a good idea, especially late in life, to switch to an auto and if that is so then IMO LF braking is not on the cards. I do not recall examples of younger folk in autos raming the surroundings :-) After a lifetime of stamping on the clutch pedal and easing off it, to adapt to easing on the pedal is beyond many. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:22   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Armel Coussine

Of course it isn't claptrap. It's a perfectly sound technique for anyone who can master it. It's probably no problem at all if you drive an auto all the time, and not much of one if you drive all sorts of cars all the time, as HJ does. But it might present problems to someone like me who normally drives a manual-transmission car and seldom drives autos. Driving an auto one-footed isn't dangerous though. He's exaggerating there. What is dangerous is driving in an extremely clumsy and uncoordinated manner, with poor judgment of speed and the brain of a woodlouse, like about 20 per cent of the drivers I see on the roads every day. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:32   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Injection Doc

I teeboned a driver early one morning when he was approaching a main road from a side junction. he went to go in his auto then realised that he wouldn't make it but sadly in the panic pressed both pedals with both feet !! dire concequences, the engine was more powerfull than the brakes! so the car shot across me removing the front but continued across the road and through a house!!! loads of damage etc because he used both feet at once. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 19:34   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Zero

I have said this before and I will say it again. HJ is going on about people driving autos who cause crashes. Those who press the wrong pedal are stupid. They shouldn't be on the road, ever, full stop. Do you really think these dimwits could master LFB? Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sun 14 Nov 10 20:05   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - hawkeye

>> >> so he thinks we are all careless potential murderers. im so glad i left that >> site. stuping little man >> Harsh words. HJ is a journalist so he's going to use phrases that get your attention. No reason to get personal. I only drove automatics rarely, now, never. I did look for the link in the Backroom where I described knocking over a planter while trying to park my late mum's Mercedes 280CE but I couldn't find it. The occasion was embarrassing because Mum watched me do it. I concluded that using my left foot to brake and its reflex action of depressing the clutch when I wanted to slow would have saved my red face in an unfamiliar car. When I bought a semi-automatic Citroen DS which had the parking brake where you'd expect to find the clutch, there have been a couple of times when I kicked the parking brake as I changed gear. Not clever when you are trying to navigate a car full around Bradford. How I wasn't rear-ended in the traffic, I'll never know; no brake lights on the parking brake ... Last edited by: hawkeye on Sun 14 Nov 10 at 20:07 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 22:09   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Kevin

HJ does seem to be on a bit of a crusade to convince people they should be pedalling their autos. I suspect he's had loads of email about it and is getting a bit touchy. I learned to LFB about 30yrs ago when most of my driving was on dirt roads. Never used, or needed it since. Other than the situations that gb is likely to encounter (loading a transporter), I can't think of anywhere that an auto can't be controlled on brakes alone "while manoeuvring". Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 22:39   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Iffy

...I can't think of anywhere that an auto can't be controlled on brakes alone "while manoeuvring"... Kevin, Try doing a three-point turn in a back lane in any of the many villages and towns in the North East which have them. No pavement, brick wall either side of the road, so not much room for error. The problem is the auto is in drive or reverse and not moving, so you have to tickle the throttle. It will not inch back or forwards unless you use the brake, your right foot is busy on the throttle, so it has to be the left. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 22:44   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Boxsterboy

I never LFB. Mainly because to use my left foot on the brake pedal in my auto means an uncomfortable twist of the spine (Merc E- class). In low speed manoeuvering I either control the torque of the engine on the foot brake or, if the manoeuvre is on a hill, use the accelerator. Very simple, really. My left foot is conditioned for clutch use - i.e. much firmer and less progressive than the pressure needed for a brake pedal. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Sun 14 Nov 10 22:56   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Dave_

More than half of our lorries are auto trans now (torque conv / automated manual, I know and care not which) and when I'm shunting them around the yard I only ever use my right foot (plus handbrake for hillstarts, esp when I'm 2ft away from another wagon). Mind you, the steering column stands proud of the bottom of the dashboard between the clutch and brake pedals on the manuals, it's in the same place (therefore to the left of the brake pedal) on the autos and thus very awkward to LFB anyway. :) Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Sun 14 Nov 10 at 22:58 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Nov 10 23:29   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - bathtub tom

As an aside to this thread, I had to reverse a van out of a confined space into a road frequented by lots of pedestrians on several occasions. The reason for reversing out was the van had only one side door, which made it the only logical way to go. The manner of loading the thing meant loading/unloading through the rear doors was impractical. I found the revs were limited in reverse below the limit in forwards (Vauxhall Movano). I used to floor the throttle and let it sit on the limiter at maximum noise. I never managed to run over any pedestrians. ;>) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 00:09   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Armel Coussine

Habits die hard, and that is why left foot braknig isn't for everyone. I know I've posted this before, but I had a very embarrassing experience driving an NSU RO80 round the block near my old (eheu, eheu!) address in North Kensington. The RO80 had a strange transmission with perhaps only three speeds but anyway one of those electric clutches that disengage when your hand falls on the gear lever. There was no clutch pedal. Seduced by the whirring smoothness of the engine and in a good mood, I planted my left foot heavily on the brake pedal coming up to a junction 100 yards from my house, in a reflex movement to declutch. No harm was done but I was mortified. The NSU belonged to an African I hardly knew, and he was in it. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 18:54   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Kevin

>Try doing a three-point turn in a back lane in any of the many villages and towns in the North East which have them. Ahh, I'm afraid that's your fault. You should move. >The problem is the auto is in drive or reverse and not moving, so you have to tickle the throttle. A V8 would solve that. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 19:02   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Iffy

...A V8 would solve that... How many people run one of those these days? It's hard to make clutchless manuals and even slushboxes with titchy engines inch forwards or backwards. Unless you brake with your left foot. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 19:11   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - BiggerBadderDave

"How many people run one of those these days?" Kevin has two of them... Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 19:20   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Iffy

...Kevin has two of them... Well, good for Kevin. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 22:20   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - Kevin

>Well, good for Kevin. Oh dear! That sounds unusually petulant for you Iffy. Here ya go, tinyurl.com/3yrvre6 500bhp and 470 lb-ft for less than £5k. Should fit in a CC3 with a few light mods. You know you want one :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 19:22   HJ's usual clap trap on left foot braking - R.P.

Kevin has two of them... You make it sound like an accusation - like being a bigamist. Like straight sixes and motor bikes you can't have too many of them (V8s not wives) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 00:05   HJ's views on left foot braking - Avant

The main reason that HJ advocates LFB is that people are less likely to tread on the accelerator instead of the brake, as has happened with some drivers of automatics with, as he suggests, disastrous results. This topic comes up from time to time on motoring forums: there's always disagreement, and what's wrong with that? There must be lots of other ways in which we each drive differently from others, yet each of us safely. It's certainly not a matter of right and wrong, and there's no call for anyone to call someone else stupid, let alone 'stuping' (OP, sic). I personally don't think LFB is a good idea if you also regularly drive a manual. But if you only drive automatics it has obvious advantages provided you are used to it. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Mon 15 Nov 10 04:53   HJ's views on left foot braking - Ian (Cape Town)

The biggest problem with lfb is that the muppets who keep their foot on the clutch in a manual tend to do the same in an auto. So the brake lights are on 24/7. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 07:58   HJ's views on left foot braking - Hard Cheese

>> >> I personally don't think LFB is a good idea if you also regularly drive a >> manual. But if you only drive automatics it has obvious advantages provided you are used to it. >> I couldn't agree more! Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 09:09   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

Once upon a time, long, long ago, I was working on this ere old mini automatic, which is neither a car or an automatic, but anyway - it was a cold and damp Saturday afternoon and I'd been working on cars out in the elements since 8-ooam and quite frankly I'd had enuff! The jam jar was a non-starter parked nose up to the wall on a large council estate square in good ole sowf east lunden. So I jumps in the critter, released the handbrake and let the blimmin thing roll down the hill to where I wanted to work on it. Eh, I forgot it was an automatic, I wasn't feeling too good anyway (Flu) and when I got down the bottom of the hill I slammed on the 'brake' but the thing crashed into a load of erected scaffolding up the side of a block of flats. How I survived that incident and how lucky I was that the scaff didn't all make a close encounter with my cranium, I'll never know but - I might add, that I've been lucky in life (so far!) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 09:30   HJ's views on left foot braking - Hard Cheese

>> >> So I jumps in the critter, released the handbrake and let the blimmin thing roll >> down the hill to where I wanted to work on it. >> >> Eh, I forgot it was an automatic, I wasn't feeling too good anyway (Flu) and >> when I got down the bottom of the hill I slammed on the 'brake' but >> the thing crashed into a load of erected scaffolding >> Am I missing something Dog? Auto or manual the brake is the brake, it's simply a matter of which foot you use. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 09:38   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>Am I missing something Dog? Auto or manual the brake is the brake, it's simply a matter of which foot you use<< It was a senior moment Cheddar, in the 1980's when I was about 33 years young. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 11:01   HJ's views on left foot braking - Hard Cheese

Ok Dog, though what did you slam on if not the brake? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 11:13   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>Ok Dog, though what did you slam on if not the brake?<< It was c25 years ago - I must have done a LF brake and a RF throttle but I can't say for sure, it was an old transperverse minivan with the AP box ... perhaps the brakes *were* faulty, I don't know, but I do know that I had to change my underpants quite quickly:) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 12:14   HJ's views on left foot braking - Iffy

...minivan with the AP box... Those 'auto' minis were dreadful contraptions. You could rev one and nothing happened, then 'clunk' and off it went. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 13:12   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>Those 'auto' minis were dreadful contraptions<< I used to look after ole Blakey's auto minivan, you remember Blakey = on the buses :) He was exactly the same (character) orf screen as on. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 13:17   HJ's views on left foot braking - Hard Cheese

My mother had an auto Austin 1100 countryman, same set up as the Mini. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 14:05   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>My mother had an auto Austin 1100 countryman<< And no doubt she was quite happy with it ... while we're thread drifting, how's about giving the worlds worst autobox a mench - the early cvt as fitted to the Daft Daf Daffodil :) Enough to put one orf cvt's - for life! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAF_Daffodil Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 14:19   HJ's views on left foot braking - Hard Cheese

The 1300 manual that it replaced was preferable. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 14:28   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>The 1300 manual that it replaced was preferable<< I had both the Riley Kestrel and the Vanden Plas versions, not for me (as such) for LadyDog to learn in. The Kestrel had a wonky gearbox and would shoot back in reverse gear when started from cold (on full choke) The VP was a lorra car though - all Walnut & Leather + picnic tables that dropped down from the rear of ze front seats. www.classicandsportscar.ltd.uk/Vanden-Plas-1300-Automatic/classic-cars-sold/2750 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 23:08   HJ's views on left foot braking - Manatee

>> . while we're thread drifting, how's >> about giving the worlds worst autobox a mench - the early cvt as fitted to >> the Daft Daf Daffodil :) >> Not much wrong with the variomatic in the context of the general carpness of cars in those days. They had the interesting possibility of going as fast backwards as forwards, which was hilariously demonstrated by the factory drivers. Didn't Volvo carry the DAF CVT technology in to the 300 series? Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 15 Nov 10 at 23:08 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 23:17   HJ's views on left foot braking - R.P.

Yes they did - the very first ones were CVT on launch - gradually superseded by a very remote gear-change, I believe the actual selector was somewhere over the rear wheels. There was a Volvo 66 in he family shortly after I passed my test - it was a very nicely screwed together and very rapid set of wheels - it could out perform a Rover P6 in certain speed envelopes - the scream of the CVT belts when cold are with me now. Funnily enough I saw a little DAF 33 the other day in Bangor 1971 on a J - very very rare I would say... Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 23:28   HJ's views on left foot braking - Zero

I could never stand that same constant revs whine. Change the record for gawds sake! Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 00:09   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dave_

Dad had a nearly-new 1988 E-reg Volvo 340 CVT for about four years. The transaxle was indeed at the back, which meant the propshaft rotated at engine speed not road speed. In the interests of fuel economy he never used full throttle, which meant the primitive rubber-belts-and-cones system provided utterly rubbish acceleration whilst still the car still slurped petrol at an alarming rate. I used to point out to him that whilst its economy was on a par with the Granada 2.9EFi of the time, its performance wasn't quite as good as the 950 Fiesta. Plus I had to squeeze my 6'3" frame in the back next to the huge transmission tunnel. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 00:16   HJ's views on left foot braking - R.P.

I'm glad that by a feat of memory I was able to remember that - never owned one, drove one once when a Volvo garage lent me a demonstrator - horrible thing. I remember the Autocar test on launch vividly including their layout diagram and the extraordinarily long gear change front to rear.. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 09:02   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

The 360 GLT was a goer - 2ltr injun from the 240. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 11:51   HJ's views on left foot braking - bathtub tom

>> The 360 GLT was a goer - 2ltr injun from the 240. FIL had one. IIRC it had skinny 155x13 tyres to try and compensate for the lack of power steering - it didn't work. You ended up with horrendously heavy steering from the weight of that engine and terrible handling because of the tyres. It demonstrated 'piston slap' perfectly. Then daughter acquired a 340 as her first car after leaving uni. They were well put together but the 340 suffered from porous fuel pipes. They had an enormous transmission tunnel hump at the rear for the CVT transmission - wasted space on the manuals. Weren't they advertised as having near perfect 50/50 weight distribution? The polar moment of inertia couldn't have been too good. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 12:07   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>FIL had one. IIRC it had skinny 155x13 tyres to try and compensate for the lack of power steering<< I could never take to the 340 - Renault engine see, at least the Volvo 360 had a, well - Volvo engine. I suppose I'm an engine man whereas you're a stockings & suspenders man :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 12:16   HJ's views on left foot braking - Tooslow

I worked with someone who bought the Volvo badged CVT not long after they'd bought DAF. He complained that they had changed the lever from push forward to go forward, pull back to go back to t'other way around. Trying to mimic an auto-box maybe? John Last edited by: Tooslow on Tue 16 Nov 10 at 12:17 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 13:29   HJ's views on left foot braking - bathtub tom

>>I suppose I'm an engine man whereas you're a stockings & suspenders man :-) Nah, my sights are set somewhere higher. ;>) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 13:37   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

- - Nah, my sights are set somewhere higher. ;>) - - Ah! You must be part Vulcan then - I go for the mind as well :-D Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 22:45   HJ's views on left foot braking - Zero

>> He was exactly the same (character) orf screen as on. I hate you Butler. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 22:55   HJ's views on left foot braking - Zero

Actually, thinking about it, HJ looks a bit like Blakey. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 08:57   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>Actually, thinking about it, HJ looks a bit like Blakey<< He's still drawing breath (not HJ, he went years ago) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Lewis_(actor) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 09:33   HJ's views on left foot braking - R.P.

On The Buses being re-run on one of the Satellite channels - pretty grim and cringeworthy these days, Blakey is brilliant though. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 09:42   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>pretty grim and cringeworthy these days<< Affirmative ... I can still watch it though, along with Bless this house, Love thy neighbour etc., etc. :) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 11:34   HJ's views on left foot braking - Fenlander

>>>>>pretty grim and cringeworthy these days Agreed... but a little more interesting for me as it was filmed in Borehamwood where I lived up to 5yrs old.... there are shots of our place in some scenes near the shops. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 11:17   HJ's views on left foot braking - Tooslow

I remember Cicely Courtneidge was in the first episode (series?) but then the character was played by another actress. I always felt that she had dropped out because it was rather more coarse than the roles she normally played. I have to agree, the Blakey character was brilliant. The programme was pretty awful. John Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 11:35   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>I remember Cicely Courtneidge was in the first series<< She's well gorn now ~ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicely_Courtneidge Try as I might, I can't honestly say I remember her in 'on the buses'. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 09:17   HJ's views on left foot braking - Runfer D'Hills

As I've said before, I really don't know what all the fuss is about. I use either foot for braking depending on the circumstances whether I'm in a manual or an auto. Most people can use either hand for steering or indeed for changing gear when switching from a lhd to a rhd manual so what's the difference ? Sometimes I'll dab the brake with my left foot to put a bit of weight on the front tyres to aid turn in, sometimes when in an auto in a tricky parking or turning situation I'll left foot brake but most of the time I just use my right foot for everything in an auto. Why all the controversy ? Just do what feels right to you at the time. It's only a machine and it will do what you tell it to.... most of the time. No need to agonise over what's "right" or "wrong". Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 15 Nov 10 11:13   HJ's views on left foot braking - madf

When I drove autos I left foot braked for parking etc as it was safer... but RFB'd for normal driving. Never had any issues. It would appear some drivers never braked at all in the Toyota acclerator crashes... so some people belive in no braking at all.. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 14:30   HJ's views on left foot braking - WillDeBeest

If you think HJ is bizarrely dogmatic on left-foot braking, look up his opinion on contact lenses. On the other hand, we all have enthusiasms and prejudices that others find incomprehensible, so what's to worry about? Those of us who decamped over here grew tired of regarding HJ as a cult (boy, did I have to type that carefully) so it seems a little odd to keep fretting about his utterances - a bit like obsessively cataloguing an ex's misfortunes. But then, I don't shadow my ex's lottery numbers - or even have an ex to obsess over - so what do I know? };---) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 14:44   HJ's views on left foot braking - Collos

I would have thought that in litigating and sue and the first chance UK it is a little dangerous to advice people to drive differently to what is taught as the accepted norm. Can you imagine the situation in court "I braked as was told to do so by a reporter in a Daily Newspaper and the brake was not there so I hit a another car so I am claiming £1000000 damages against the paper. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 15:11   HJ's views on left foot braking - Mapmaker

>> It is a little dangerous to advice people to drive differently to what is taught as >> the accepted norm. >> Can you imagine the situation in court "I braked as was told to do so >> by a reporter in a Daily Newspaper and the brake was not there so I >> hit a another car so I am claiming £1000000 damages against the paper. Quite. Which is why it always amazes me the number of posters to this site who advocate not using the left foot to stop an automatic. At the risk of going over old ground... a manual car, when inching forward, you have almost complete control through a combination of accelerator and clutch, the footbrake is the icing on the cake for control. With an automatic, as you don't have a clutch to disengage drive instantly, you need an alternative method for taking the drive away, and the footbrake is the obvious and ideal solution. Anybody whose right foot is capable of tickling a brake pedal has a left foot that is capable of tickling the brake pedal. Start from stationary with left foot on brake. Release left foot slowly and allow the car to move forward a little, replace left foot gently. Repeat until you've got the hang of braking with the left foot - 30 seconds? 90?. Then practice in real life. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 16 Nov 10 15:21   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>Start from stationary with left foot on brake. Release left foot slowly and allow the car to move forward a little, replace left foot gently. Repeat until you've got the hang of braking with the left foot - 30 seconds? 90?. Then practice in real life.<< All very sound advice Mapmaker, but why? what for? what's the point? I've been driving automatics for, oh - must be nigh on 30 odd years now and I never ever feel the need to use this ere blimmin LFB. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 14:49   HJ's views on left foot braking - nyx2k

yes i'm glad i followed when hj shut down. hj's is there to serve himself and doesnt seem to care about the users as long has he gets the traffic and builds up a good size database. and those annoying pop ups i cant get rid off no matter what plug in or browser i use Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 14:53   HJ's views on left foot braking - Redviper

>> and those annoying pop ups i cant get rid off no matter what plug in >> or browser i use >> Me Neither, and the embedded adverts seem to casue my browser to stop loading the rest of the page in while it waits to finish downloading the adverts then the page jumps as other adverts get stopped by the popup blocker causing me to click on the wrong link - very annoying. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 15:15   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

>>and those annoying pop ups i cant get rid off no matter what plug in or browser i use<< S'funny cos I don't get any pop ups on HJ via IE8 & Microsoft security essentials, but I do get em with Firefox. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 16:37   HJ's views on left foot braking - Stuu

Maybe its just me, but in all my years in the trade and since, ive used the handbrake to aid control in tight spots in automatics. Always worked for me, but its really what you get used to. Its dependant on so many factors. I recall Rover CVT automatics have a massively powerful creep that caught a few oldies out as the brakes can hardly hold it, so using the handbrake in addition was essential unless you had legs like Paul Wight. Anyone who says there is one single way of doing things is a bit naive. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 16:38   HJ's views on left foot braking - Fursty Ferret

Am I the only person here who's automatic cars have always "creeped" sufficiently that it's totally pointless touching the accelerator when in reverse or manoeuvring in close proximity to something? If I'm reversing up the road, it doesn't really matter if I mash the wrong pedal any more than it would in a manual (not that I've done this!). Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 16:44   HJ's views on left foot braking - Bromptonaut

>> Am I the only person here who's automatic cars have always "creeped" sufficiently that it's >> totally pointless touching the accelerator when in reverse or manoeuvring in close proximity to something? Exactly my experience. But somtimes needed a bit of help over the lip of a kerb etc or could suddenly increase creep rate, particulalry if a cold start regome was in operation. In those circs keeping the left foot over the brake aided control. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 16 Nov 10 16:45   HJ's views on left foot braking - R.P.

Not only you Alfa - figuring this out never had difficulty using both feet (not at the same time of course) when in Autos - guess that the solution here is electronic hold and or handbrake ! Analysing it this afternoon in the manual X1 my general use would be RH foot......but why worry...? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 16:46   HJ's views on left foot braking - nyx2k

i have driven at least 25 autos and they have all creeped a little whether it was a 1.0ltr metro or a 7ltr rolls royce. never needed to even consider the left foot might be needed. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 16 Nov 10 17:08   HJ's views on left foot braking - Boxsterboy

Ditto. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 17 Nov 10 10:32   HJ's views on left foot braking - Mapmaker

>> i have driven at least 25 autos and they have all creeped a little whether >> it was a 1.0ltr metro or a 7ltr rolls royce. never needed to even consider >> the left foot might be needed. But how do you get them to "creep" up over a bump, say a dropped kerb, where there is a brick wall immediately in front which requires you to stop at that point? Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 17 Nov 10 11:37   HJ's views on left foot braking - movilogo

Just tell me what I'm missing by not doing LFB. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 17 Nov 10 11:51   HJ's views on left foot braking - Dog

- - ->But how do you get them to "creep" up over a bump, say a dropped kerb, where there is a brick wall immediately in front which requires you to stop at that point?<- - - Simples ... I would LF brake :) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 17 Nov 10 11:59   HJ's views on left foot braking - Perky Penguin

In all the manual cars I have ever driven I use my left foot to operate the clutch and my right foot to operate the accelerator and brake. It follows that if I am in an automatic (no clutch) I don't use my left foot for anything. I dson't think there is any dogmatic right or wrong position - people will do what works for them and this works for me. However, I do agree with the scenario the Dog outlines above. Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Wed 17 Nov 10 at 12:00 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 17 Nov 10 12:24   HJ's views on left foot braking - Mapmaker

>> In all the manual cars I have ever driven I use my left foot to >> operate the clutch and my right foot to operate the accelerator and brake. It follows >> that if I am in an automatic (no clutch) I don't use my left foot >> for anything. No, it doesn't follow. Whenever I use the computer, I use two hands - indeed eight fingers and a thumb - to create words on a page. For instance, if writing slap, it goes left hand, right hand, left hand right hand. Therefore it follows that when I use a pen, I alternate the pen between hands when writing the word slap. INVHO anybody who things that PP's second sentence follows from his first hasn't thought about how an automatic works compared to a manual. Imagine being on a downhill slope, parking up towards a wall, and having to go over a kerb/pothole. Virtually impossible in a manual without using the handbrake for stopping a moving vehicle. A doddle in an auto. Why handicap yourself by not using the machine to full advantage? Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 17 Nov 10 12:50   HJ's views on left foot braking - Perky Penguin

I do what works for me and everyone else can do what works for them. I can see no connection or similarity between the use of a keyboard and the use of a pen, other than the fact they are are both used to create symbols, one on a screen and the other on paper. Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Wed 17 Nov 10 at 12:51 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 17 Nov 10 14:05   HJ's views on left foot braking - vitesse

I know I have arrived rather late at this discussion but I did read the original article on Saturday. I think that HJ rides his hobby horses for rather too long but he has the column so he sets the rules. What I do not understand is how he is sure that the problem is associated with left (or right) footed breaking. There may be evidence of poor breaking or no breaking but I do not see how he can be so dogmatic on which foot was used. He appears to be using suppositions as facts. vitesse Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 17 Nov 10 16:35   HJ's views on left foot braking - henry k

>>But how do you get them to "creep" up over a bump, say a dropped kerb, where there is a brick wall immediately in front which requires you to stop at that point? >> By strange coincidence... This morning, on a rare visit, I noticed that the brick base of LIDLs store in Morden has been "slightly" damaged and is now barriered off. Car park spaces are 90 degrees to the wall with a raised pavement between the spaces and the wall. No idea how this damage happened but unless the carpark was empty this is is a very low speed manoeuvring area. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 17 Nov 10 16:37   HJ's views on left foot braking - R.P.

Don't tell HJ Henry ! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 17 Nov 10 17:00   HJ's views on left foot braking - henry k

It most probably was a very full large heavy supermarket trolley wot done it:-) Last edited by: henry k on Wed 17 Nov 10 at 17:01 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 17 Nov 10 17:12   HJ's views on left foot braking - Runfer D'Hills

>> It most probably was a very full large heavy supermarket trolley wot done it:-) I think it was LHR Terminal 2 where they had a spiral ramp you could wheel your luggage trolley down to ground level. The big design feature/mistake was giving it banked sides. If you got a run at it from the top you could use your trolley as a sort of wheeled bobsleigh all the way down. You just had to hope there wasn't anyone too sluggish on their feet coming up. A fully laden trolley with a big Scots bloke lying on top of it shouting "Wheeee" coming off the banking towards the queue for the car park buses took a bit of stopping.... Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 17 Nov 10 23:30   HJ's views on left foot braking - Avant

Even more stopping if he was playing the bagpipes at the same time..... Last edited by: Avant on Wed 17 Nov 10 at 23:30 Reply to this message | Report message