Motoring Discussion > Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( Legal Questions
Thread Author: Skoda Replies: 28
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:08 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Skoda
This is driving me nuts, i'm not smooth in the Octavia and i've had it for months now.

I pride myself on how smoothly i can change gear, i rev match more often than not and generally in most cars i'm nice and smooth 90% of the time. I aim to be as smooth as a taxi driver, i'm not that good all the time but that's my aim.

I balance this against clutch wear -- i avoid being on the clutch for any time, and the rev difference i try to keep as low as i can.

I cannot consistently crack smooth shifts in 1st or 2nd in the Octy. Are there any good tips or pointers because i'm just self taught and could be lacking what experienced folks see as basics.

The absolute basics, how do you teach a learner clutch control? Maybe i've got something fundamental wrong and just other cars are more forgiving so i haven't noticed it.

I think the most common problem for me is i fail to rev match accurately (why, i don't know) but i don't want to burn the clutch making up for that so i end up with a slightly jerky change.
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:13 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - FotheringtonTomas
Don't dump the clutch.
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:14 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Fursty Ferret
First to second was rubbish for me in the Passat. Could be you have a clutch delay valve which makes things more difficult.

I found a solution in the end though and bought an auto.
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:23 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - hobby
I can only speak for the old Fabias and the Roomster and say that I've never had any probs making smooth changes... Are you sure there's not a problem with the gearbox? Having said that I have always had the diesels and don't use first all that often...
Last edited by: hobby on Wed 10 Nov 10 at 12:24
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:27 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Iffy
Skoda,

Smooth changing from the lowest gear is always the most difficult, so I doubt there's much wrong with your technique.

You might be trying too hard with 'rev matching'.

The car will come out of gear more smoothly on the over-run, so always come off the throttle before depressing the clutch.

Try to avoid using first unless you have to.

The Octy might pull away OK in second, particularly if it's on a slight decline.
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:27 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - hawkeye
>> Don't dump the clutch.
>>

Agreed. Take your time with the changes. Give your brain time to learn the rev differences between first and second. Slow everything down, pausing in neutral; lift your hand off the gear lever to force a pause if necessary. As you come off the clutch, pause where the bite point is and slow down the release. Good luck with your quest; I don't often get to drive with anyone who has the style and ability to do smooth changes (sorry Mrs H, I last remember a smooth change from you about 20 years ago).

This won't ever work if you are trying to race that BMW off the lights at the same time.

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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:42 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - madf
It's age and senile dementia come early..:-)
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:48 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - RattleandSmoke
When I have passangers I aim to make sure they experience as much gforces as possible - it ensures I don't get asks for lifts again!.

I have foudn on my Panda that you have to be very slow releasing the clutch otherwise it judders and 30mph is a bit tricky as 30mph cruises happily in 4th but the second I have to slow down even by 3mph I have to change down or the engine goes into labour. It is the downside of a small petrol engine which has as much torque as a lawnmower.
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:53 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Fursty Ferret
>> change down or the engine goes into labour.
>>

Oooh-err.
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:54 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Iffy
...have to change down or the engine goes into labour...

Baby Pandas born in captivity are very rare.

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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:49 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - hawkeye
>> The absolute basics, how do you teach a learner clutch control?

This summer at the b-i-l's French pad with a long gravel drive I was faced with an ancient left-hooker (naturally) petrol Renault 5 and 2 eager pupils who had never driven before, H junior aged 13 and b-i-l aged 45.

The same technique for clutch control worked for both on the day. Without going into a blow-by-blow account the pupils worked the clutch up and down to get the feel of it, then released the clutch in gear with instructions to declutch immediately the car moved. I coined the phrase "busy engine" (no rev-counter) to give some idea of appropriate revs to start off on the flat. Over a couple of hot hours there were no wheel spins and 2 engine stalls, both from the youngster.

Skoda I'm sure that's no help but that's how I did the basics recently.

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New Wed 10 Nov 10 12:56 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - sherlock47
>>>Over a couple of hot hours there were no wheel spins .....<<<<

(H junior) - just wait until your back is turned:)
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 15:35 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Old Navy
>> >> The absolute basics, how do you teach a learner clutch control?

If you want basics, is your seat in the right position?

Your leg should be just short of fully extended when the clutch pedal is on the floor. Change gear slowly, including moving the clutch pedal slowly. You have a choice to make, fast and furious, or slow and comfortable. :-)
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 13:36 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Tooslow
Could it be the car? I went through a phase of having hire cars delivered, often Mondeos. All were fine except one which was a swine. I kept stalling it no matter how careful I was. As I was ok with the others I felt that maybe there was something different about this car. No doubt I would have cracked it with practice. Are you able to try another Skoda for comparison?

John
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 13:58 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - L'escargot
>> The absolute basics, how do you teach a learner clutch control?

Don't depress and release the clutch pedal too fast. Ensure that the clutch is fully disengaged before moving the gear lever. Move the gear lever in a leisurely fashion, momentarily pausing in neutral. Release the throttle pedal simultaneously with depressing the clutch pedal. With modern synchromesh gearboxes there's little need to worry too much about the engine speed when changing gear. For smooth driving, gear changes should be leisurely.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Wed 10 Nov 10 at 14:01
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 14:09 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Tooslow
This is the early stages of justifying a new car with DSG :-)

John
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 14:52 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Skoda
>> This is the early stages of justifying a new car with DSG :-)

You're too sharp for your own good :-) I need to sell this car in the new year (will be v sad to see it go) other wise i'd be chopping it in, i got all the other option choices spot on, but the DSG was too much of an unknown at the time for me - i wasn't sure it'd be reliable. Bad decision but supported by the evidence at the time.



On the journey into work i did everything in slow motion. I think i've been rushing it too much. Even at that the clutch is not at all forgiving, even going in slow motion i can feel (although a passenger probably wouldn't) the minor differences in revs.

Is it possible that the gearbox is just too new? It's got 7.5k miles on it now but i end up driving in 4th and 6th all the time so the box probably hasn't really been worked much. Maybe it'll loosen up.
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 14:18 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - L'escargot
www.expressandstar.com/latest/2007/03/20/smooth-gear-changing/

www.smartdriving.co.uk/Better_driving_online/Week_3/gears.html

www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=222&Itemid=58
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 18:51 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Alastairw
Hi Skoda, you are not alone in suffering with jerky changes in your Octy - I get it too. It seems connected to how much load is on the air con system/alternator. ie: at the the start of a journey on a hot day, heavy load on the aircon, the jerks seem much worse. Are the revs dropping faster due to the extra load on the engine, perhaps?
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 19:38 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Skoda
That's interesting Alastair, also reassuring in a way that i'm not the only one
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 21:46 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Dave_
I quickly mastered silky-smooth gearchanges in my Octavia, although that was the less peaky non-turbo diesel version. No aircon either ;)

I don't really know the secret, practice I suppose. I certainly used to match the revs to within a couple of hundred when lifting the clutch both on up- and down-changes, I got almost 200k miles out of the clutch doing that. It was one of those cars alluded to in a thread here the other day where it was possible to pull away from a standstill with no throttle at all, so that's what I always did.

In the clonky old 7.5-tonner I drive for work, I don't use the clutch on up-changes at all - the revs fall slowly enough for the synchromesh to keep up and allow me to change gear purely by feel. I still tickle the throttle to ease it into gear though, and can go from a standing start to motorway speed without spilling a drop of the (open-topped) coffee in the holder on the back of the folded-down centre seat.
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New Wed 10 Nov 10 21:58 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Stuartli
When I swapped my Bora (always smooth changes) for a Jetta Sports, I couldn't get the gear changes as smooth as before.

Eventually I realised that I had never altered the seat height when making the normal adjustments with a new car, which meant my left foot was pressed down on the clutch pedal over a larger angle.

Raising the seat height only a modest amount immediately helped to ensure much smoother changes, although a little more tuning still seems necessary.
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New Thu 11 Nov 10 07:21 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - WillDeBeest
The car will come out of gear more smoothly on the over-run, so always come off the throttle before depressing the clutch.

That's what I was taught too, Iffy. But I've found in the Verso and, to a lesser extent the Volvo, that upshifts to second or third are smoother if I don't lift my right foot. I'm talking about moderate acceleration, not pants-on-fire takeoffs, but it really seems to help. I suspect modern ECUs prevent the engine from screaming when the clutch is disengaged, the way my Escort would.

Slow and deliberate isn't always the answer. Mrs Beest takes so long over hers that the revs have time to drop right off, and the result is an enormous lurch when the clutch re-engages. Passengers are advised to keep their mouths empty for safety reasons.
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New Thu 11 Nov 10 09:21 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - WillDeBeest
Well, after writing that I drove the Verso 25 miles to work, concentrating hard on making smooth changes. As you'll have guessed, I was as smooth as a mixture of week-old porridge and gravel, garnished with bits of barbed wire.

Perhaps the secret is just to relax and not try too hard.
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New Thu 11 Nov 10 14:09 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Iffy
...I suspect modern ECUs prevent the engine from screaming when the clutch is disengaged...

Will,

I think you are on to something there.

Messing around with my old Focus one day, I discovered the engine wouldn't race away when the clutch pedal was depressed.

I can't remember the exact sequence of gear/clutch/throttle, but there's no doubt the engine management system intervened.

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New Thu 11 Nov 10 10:09 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Felix
Hi Skoda, can't say I get this in mine (Octy 1.4 TSI), the gearchange/clutch are the smoothest I've ever encountered. However occasionally it seems to get a bit jerky if I lift off the gas a bit too quickly when I'm at very low revs in traffic, had one or two kangaroo hops which surprised me. Maybe it's symptomatic of that?
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New Thu 11 Nov 10 14:36 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Dwight Van Driver
Try double declutching...

Clutch in = into neutral =clutch out

Clutch in = into gear = clutch out.

... or when changing down = sustained rev change.

Keep same acceleration on pedal
Clutch in, select gear, clutch out with same revs.

dvd
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New Thu 11 Nov 10 14:38 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Skoda
ON>> If you want basics, is your seat in the right position?

and

Stuartli>> Eventually I realised that I had never altered the seat height when making the normal adjustments with a new car

Full marks at the back of the class :-)

It's funny how you get used to a car, when i first sat in an octy demonstrator i thought the pedals were too vertical, i put it down to too many different test drives in quick succession. I remember when i first got the car, i was bitterly disappointed in the road noise. I can't tell the last time i noticed it.

So i bumped my seat up (i'm tall, it's automatic to put the seat as far down as it'll go), the clutch is instantly more comfortable to use and i'm a lot better with it.

I think i even prefer the view from the new height. It just goes to show how big the Octy is inside, i'd never dream of being able to bump the seat up 4 or 5 notches (i have my seat back fairly vertical).

Thanks!
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New Thu 11 Nov 10 14:38 
 Smooth Gear Changes, or not :-( - Skoda
Felix>> However occasionally it seems to get a bit jerky if I lift off the gas a bit too quickly when I'm at very low revs in traffic

Yeah during traffic i can definitely be a bit kangaroo like sometimes, i'm hopeful i'm on the mend though :-)

I'm glad i asked, folks on this site are always full of good experience.
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