...update...
Another threatening letter from the parking company and the 'bill' is now £120.
I'm told my credit rating is at risk and legal action is pending.
I almost wish they would issue proceedings, I already have a barrister who is keen to represent me on a 'no fee, but don't blame me if it goes wrong' basis.
Don't think he'll be needed, though.
Volume 1 is here www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=3144
Last edited by: Pugugly on Mon 8 Nov 10 at 19:31
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'no fee, but don't blame me if it goes wrong' :-)
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Barrister's confident then...? Big camp Harry's going to have a great Christmas this year....
:-))
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Our resident Penguin would probably do iffy's time for him !
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Well, it would make a change from stuffing a turkey I guess...
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I'd think about it - that's for sure!
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With my boiler still playing up and my job ending on 19th Dec I'd happily do 4 months in prison, so long as I didn't have to have a shower! Might be able to get away from Deal or no Deal, X factor, Strictly and the poxy Jungle!
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Nothing's ever that bad Perky...
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...Barrister's confident then...
I know you're only funning, but I do think it best to enter into these things with your eyes open.
Both sides know where they stand and what's expected, so no misunderstandings down the line.
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Mine got to this stage and it has been around 6 weeks since the letter. All is quiet now so I hope they have got the message. Like you, I also almost wish they would issue official legal proceedings as it's a bit quiet at work right now.
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Redfire,
Thanks for that - it's good to hear from someone a bit further along the process.
This is one of those happy occasions where what I believe will happen is what I want to happen.
I'm taking nothing for granted, but I believe they will give up, eventually.
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The lot hassling me went away after the fourth or fifth threatening letter. The last couple were on red paper - fancy!
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I think my ' last gasp of a whipped dog ' letter was on red as well...........a bit harsher on the old bottom than the yellow !
Ted
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>> I think my ' last gasp of a whipped dog ' letter was on red
>> as well...........a bit harsher on the old bottom than the yellow !
Ted, You were in the Job long enough to have had a fair part of your career with only 'tracing paper' to complete your paperwork......so your nether regions must be able to take the odd red letter, surely?...:-)
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Indeed WP....do they still supply it ?
Each sheet marked ' Government Property '
I go for a more luxurious approach now. Like our beloved Queen, I use day old chicks.
Ted
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I hope you will forgive me if I don't read through the 190 posts, but have you replied to any letters in any way shape or form?
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...I hope you will forgive me if I don't read through the 190 posts...
Forgive you?
I commend you for not doing so.
To answer the question, I'm taking the 'no replies' route.
This seems to be the consensus advice.
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>> I already have a barrister
A barrister, eh?
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Who's going to tell Iffy that's now how you spell barrista?
John
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Not me - probably some colloquial spelling in Leafy North Yorks !
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Iffy,
Tried to read this on my phone earlier - not easy - going to split it to 100 reply volumes shortly.
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Long and definitive article here re unenforceable parking tickets, DVLA giving out informationf to firms not approved to receive it and loads of other semi illegal and questionable tactics.
tinyurl.com/34gd9og
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You obviously subscribe to the Times on line. Only subscribers can view
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Oh Bother! Sorry and yes I do! The article basically endorses the views expounded here so far, except that it suggests replying to correspondence rather than 100% ignoring it. Whatever, supply no information and make the leeches prove their case. Beware of Notices printed to look and read as official - black and white chequered borders etc and check carefully to see by whom they are issued, if not the police or a local council it is not legal or enforceable SFAIK
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Sun 7 Nov 10 at 11:16
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I can't remember - have we done all the 'soap on a rope' jokes for iffy's benefit?
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I received one from an unpleasant parking company in the North after parking in a retail car park with tiny signs, mounted high up, which weren't the usual big blue "P"'s.
Ignored all the demands (£100 fine for 10 minutes parking) and the letters are all stamped from the same mould, all threatening, and all printed on the same printer, too. Pepipoo as a list of all the sample letters they send out.
What is quite amusing is that they've had to cough up £5 or however much the DVLA charge for my information, and as they're VAT registered, they'll have to pay the VAT on my "invoice" whether I pay or not.
Also informed HMRC that despite mentioning VAT on the invoice they sent out, they didn't put a VAT number on. Had a reply thanking me for the information.
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Todays' Sunday Times Motor section has a couple page spread - variety of contributors - most said ignore and they will eventually go away.
They know what car it was but do not know the driver unless they can identify via a Photo, they can only hope their increasing levels of threats cause the punter to cave in and pay - the recommendation is IGNORE.
To make their paperwork resemble official (ie. Govt / local Govt based stationary is illegal), to use PCN abbreviation is misleading. To warn of fines is misleading as they can only invoice they cannot fine (only courts can fine) and they will, in 99.99% of cases go nowhere near a court, as they would be awarded (if they won) say £2.00 for parking + an admin charge nothing the empty threats about not paying their invoice.
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I recently stayed overnight in a MSA motel, the reception desk parking system terminal displayed photos of cars recently arrived at the MSA, and you selected your car to enter it as a resident. Although it was dark, the thumbnails were good of quality with the number plates distinct, I could not see the occupants of the cars.
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Grow a beard and wear shades iffy.
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He already does! Shave it off and go for contacts!
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Sun 7 Nov 10 at 17:19
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...Grow a beard and wear shades iffy...
Never mind that, I thought you were going to split this thread.
You might as well, I've no intention of letting this drop.
(Collective groan from the back of the forum.)
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I will later on after tea !
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...I will later on after tea !...
We've got enough for three separate threads, let alone two.
Do you remember the Colt convertible thread at the other place?
I think it reached eight or nine volumes.
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>> >> Do you remember the Colt convertible thread at the other place?
>>
Then there was Murphy the cat with his Chrysler(?)
The one I enjoyed most was the man selling an iffy Vauxhall VX(?) 220, that was just plain funny.
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"I will later on after tea!"
Since PU posted this (Sun 7 Nov 17:46) I've had: a roast dinner, a bedtime drink, breakfast and coffee. It's now nearly lunchtime.
The suspense is getting unbearable.
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...It's now nearly lunchtime...
Yes, a cheese sandwich awaits.
Shame I've no tomato in stock, but some pickle will do.
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Imagine how he feels. He's probably ravenous by now. Give it another day and we'll send him a food parcel. Don't forget the Carnation.
John
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Oh stop moaning ! :-)) I'll do it after lunch now - too busy yesterday tying the house down last night before that storm hit.....woke up at 2.30am trying to remember whether I'd closed the rear windows - open in the afternoon to ventilate pooch. Had to get up to check oh yes indeedy !
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Notice how his time references are by eating times... ?
John
Last edited by: Tooslow on Mon 8 Nov 10 at 12:48
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his sleep patterns are disturbed too, they warned me about dozing in the afternoons.
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Not fallen into that trap yet Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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"They"? The men in white coats have been around again?
John
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They are with me all the time.....
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Nurses any good? ;-)
John
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No "they" - the voices tell me not to go near them...
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Ignore them, they're no fun. Tell them to go play in someone else's hallucination.
John
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What's wrong with having a doze in the afternoon?
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Well to be kind about it, it means you are a dozy senile old git.
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...Well to be kind about it, it means you are a dozy senile old git...
Tell it to the (Spanish) marines.
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To be charitable it could be because one works night shifts, like what I do!
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>> What's wrong with having a doze in the afternoon?
Nothing, unless you happen to be driving at the time.
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...Nothing, unless you happen to be driving at the time...
Being a responsible motorist - and not someone to hold a grudge - I took a break at my favourite motorway service station late this afternoon.
I had the all-day brunch - two sausages, two smallish eggs, beans and a few chips.
The beans looked a bit congealed, but tasted OK, and the eggs were freshly fried and genuinely good.
Not haute cuisine, but a nice enough meal, and something of a bargain at £4.99.
Who said these places were expensive?
(Unless you stop too long. )
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Didn't sirens, klaxons and flashing lights go off as you entered?
You CHOOSE to eat motorway service station food? Iffy, you've disappointed me :-)
John
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>> Didn't sirens, klaxons and flashing lights go off as you entered?
>>
>> You CHOOSE to eat motorway service station food? Iffy, you've disappointed me :-)
>>
>>
And after they tried to rip him off for parking, must be a slow learner.
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Met a guy who is in a similar position to me today.
His crime was to park in a disabled bay in a surface car park for several small blocks of offices.
There are no charges, staff and visitors come and go as they please.
The guy admits the offence - he forgot to display his badge - but has decided to take the 'no reply' route.
He showed me his latest letter, demanding £133.99.
Quite nasty with its talk of bailiffs, attachments to earnings orders, your goods being sold at auction.
Reading the letter carefully, it's all 'if', 'may commence', and 'a typical case might involve'.
In other words, empty threats.
It even invites you to visit a website showing: 'A selection of CCJs (County Court judgments) we have obtained against people who have ignored our correspondence.'
I've not bothered looking, but I suspect the company also deals with genuine civil debtors - credit cards, HP, and the like - so the 'selection of CCJs' will refer to those cases.
These companies really are just bullies.
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..."surface"?...
Term used to mean a land area used for parking, as opposed to a multi-storey or underground car park, or on-street spaces.
Thought it was quite common, but obviously not.
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Oh.
Seriously I used to get a free subscription "Parking Times" (honestly) in work...mind you it went straight in the bin unread, maybe I should have in down time...
Last edited by: Pugugly on Wed 10 Nov 10 at 19:36
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It may be it's civil enforcement officer/council speak.
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Just a thought - I was parked in a hotel car-park over the weekend - the parking was managed (aka bullying and threatening) by a company entirely separate from the excellently managed hotel. If one stopped at the gate and covered one's number plates and remove the tax disc - how would they threaten and bully you then I wonder ?
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>> If one stopped at the gate and covered one's number plates and
>> remove the tax disc
Reversing in should be good for a giggle on the camera-monitored fleecing sites. I've recommended it before and actually do reverse in to these places occasionally.
Last edited by: FotheringtonTomas on Mon 15 Nov 10 at 14:10
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...and covered one's number plates...
Might be more effective to cover your plates on the way in.
Presumably, you would then be flagged up as leaving, but never having arrived. :)
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Dont forget many cars have their Vin number displayed in the top of the dashboard. Would they go to the trouble to identify the registered owner that way if they used a man with a logger device as in many shopping car parks? I bet he would not bother.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 15 Nov 10 at 14:16
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Minor thread drift! I read in my Sunday broadsheet that double yellow lines in a private car park are probably illegal and unenforceable in that they will almost certainly not have been authorised by the local council who control such matters That said, it is probably not too smart to park on them as they may be to keep space clear or prevent congestion but, if you do, there is no legal penalty enforceable
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>> That said, it is
>> probably not too smart to park on them as they may be to keep space
>> clear or prevent congestion but, if you do, there is no legal penalty enforceable
>>
Emergency vehicle access? One day it may be you or a loved one who needs help.
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Just my point! I wouldn't park on them.
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...Any news iffy ?...
No, last nasty letter early November, which is longer ago than I thought.
Mind you, on the 'don't mention the war' principle I expect something will turn up tomorrow. :)
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Sorry, I should have realized, I work on that principle as well, I mentioned it once but I got away with it :-)
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...Sorry, I should have realized...
No worries, the difference is I'm determined to get away with it, no matter how many times it's mentioned. :)
Last edited by: Iffy on Mon 13 Dec 10 at 19:33
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I was reading Tesco's local branch policy today - Free Parking for 3 hours then a 70 quid "charge" all written in plain English and made to look reasonable....
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...Free Parking for 3 hours then a 70 quid "charge" all written in plain English and made to look reasonable...
A supermarket is in a slightly different position because it is under no legal requirement to provide free parking, unlike a service area operator which is obliged to provide two hours.
Is there any mechanism to pay, should you want to?
Part of my argument with the service area is they didn't send me an invoice for parking, they moved straight to penalty mode.
If you overstayed at Tesco, I wonder how much they would demand through the post?
They might be happy to ask for £70, which puts them in a slightly stronger position because that is the published tariff.
By contrast, the published tariff for the service area is £20 or £25, but the first bill they send you is for nearer a hundred.
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I've not seen an "enforcer" at this branch in Bangor as it is at the edge of an out of town sort of strip - with not many places to go on foot and little scope for commuting meet ups. Their branch in Porthmadog is more or less on a very busy Hight Street where parking at the Tesco would be useful for shopping elsewhere - I have seen enforcers there and if memory serves me right the wording of the signs are different, I think it is two hours and mention of the street shopping (positively) - they obviously tune their requirements to the specific site.
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>> I've not seen an "enforcer" >>
Some supermarkets use ANPR cameras that log you in and out as "enforcers".
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A new Tesco express in town has very threatening large signs with a 20min max stop and the strongest steel sliding gate I've seen ready to prevent access after closing time. Very visible security guy inside too. The area's not that bad but they must be expecting trouble.
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Don't worry you will get them eventually. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 13 Dec 10 at 20:20
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I'm working on a set of rotating number plates as we speak.
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Yes Dougal, but remember to put DIFFERENT plates on the other side. :-)
John
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12127470
This was in the local news - I'm beginning to think that this is a right PR disaster...especially for the Co-oP
For some perspective the hospital is on a very steep hill and the store is at the foot of the hill. I am a Co-oP member and will lobby them if the nurses get an invoice from this car parking company.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Fri 7 Jan 11 at 21:20
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...update...
No more letters about my 'ticket', so they may have given up.
Stopped at the same service station today, and I see the signs have been further upgraded.
The script now includes something on the lines of: "If you stay more than two hours, you agree to pay to park."
It also says you can buy a ticket in the shop.
What the parking company is desperately trying to do is establish a contract between themselves and the motorist.
This is where the few cases taken to court have foundered.
Legal opinion still seems to come down in favour of the motorist.
The common sense thinking is nailing a sign to a post does not establish a contract with anyone who happens to walk past that post.
I think a contract would be established if each driver was given a ticket on entry, setting out the two free hours and the charges thereafter.
But the scam companies don't want to do that because the attendant/ticket machines/barriers/car par remodelling would be too expensive.
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>> I think a contract would be established if each driver was given a ticket on
>> entry, setting out the two free hours and the charges thereafter.
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>> But the scam companies don't want to do that because the attendant/ticket machines/barriers/car par remodelling
>> would be too expensive.
>>
>>
It may be coming, There is a shopping shed car park in Dundee where you must display a ticket or get "fined" even though the first two hours are free. The time stamped tickets are issued by pay and display type machines on a button press. They have a guy checking tickets.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 24 Mar 11 at 15:12
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...It may be coming...
The scam parking companies are restricted by what they can do on a motorway service area by the operator's licence.
It certainly specifies two hours free, and it may specify open access - no barriers - to the car park.
There's nothing to stop charging from arrival at a shed car park, although it would be seen as commercial suicide.
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Well there's a thing, just when I thought my friends at the scam parking company had given up on me, they wrote again last week.
I wasn't going to bother updating this thread, but the subject has cropped up in another thread, which inspired me to dig up this one.
It's now approaching a year since the original 'offence'.
I scan read the letter before binning it, usual threats of court action, although they didn't mention how much money they wanted.
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Picked one up myself in Stockport when I was over a few weeks ago. In a supermarket with free parking for two hours. I was only there 45 mins but didn't realise you had to pay and display and take a refund at the checkout. £80.
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BBD,
I know your location means it's unlikely any ticket will go far, but it's safe to ignore only the tickets issued by private parking companies on their own behalf.
Most supermarket car parks are run this way, but some are operated by private companies on behalf of the local authority.
The pay and display element of your transaction raises the question in my mind.
It can be hard to determine the difference, but a good way is to look at the address on the ticket for appeals.
If it mentions a local authority, then the ticket is a proper one, and should be taken seriously.
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It's a "parking charge notice" very cleverly disguised as a "penalty charge notice" to a company up in Perth. I'll be ignoring it.
I actually worked in this supermarket for 5 years, it paid for my university education so I was genuinely surprised to get a ticket. Mind you, it's been 20 years...
Not surprised that Stockport is dying. Someone should shoot it in the head.
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...It's a "parking charge notice" very cleverly disguised as a "penalty charge notice"...
BBD,
You are obviously well up to speed, it's illegal for the company to use the term 'penalty charge notice', so they use 'parking charge notice', and then the abbreviation 'PCN' in a bid to confuse.
Some signs still threaten drivers with a 'penalty charge notice', although they shouldn't.
I once saw one on which the word 'penalty' had been amateurishly overwritten with the word 'parking'.
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...update...
Another threatening letter arrived last week, after a gap of several months.
I'm beginning to lose track, but the original 'offence' must be getting on for 18 months ago.
The amount claimed continues to go up and down like a yo-yo.
Think it reached about £270, now down to £90, which is presumably to tempt me to give in.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 12 Sep 11 at 13:40
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I noticed the other day that the local Asda have signs by the blue badge spaces threatening ' non-badge holders with a ' fine '. I'm going to harangue a manager next time I see one.......already done it over the ' 10 items or LESS ' signs.
The signs in the car park, and many others I use, often say ' Blue badge holders only ' ...nothing about displaying them.......I haven't had a PCN yet, but given time !
Ted
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>> I noticed the other day that the local Asda have signs by the blue badge
>> spaces threatening ' non-badge holders with a ' fine '. I'm going to harangue a
>> manager next time I see one.......already done it over the ' 10 items or LESS
>> ' signs.
My local Sainsbury's has signs saying that people without children in the car will be fined for parking in the parent and child spaces. It doesn't seem to deter the store's security guards from parking there.
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>> It doesn't seem to deter the store's security guards from parking there.
Similar thing at the John Ratcliffe Hospital in Oxford.
Right next to the disabled bays near the emergency entrance there is a sign saying "Do not park on the hatched area"
I saw a car had parked on it one day (disabled badge on display) and security issued it with a parking ticket and also took a photo as proof.
Interesting that the same security firm park their van on it when they feel like it. If it is exclusively reserved for security, then the sign should say so.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 12 Sep 11 at 13:46
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Could pay - won't pay - R.P.
