I'm confused. Having looked at direct.gov.uk, it clearly states "You must tell the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) immediately of any changes to your name, address or both". It then goes on to say, with regard to driving abroad, "If you move to another country, you should check with the driving licence authorities there for information about driving and exchange of licences. You don't need to notify DVLA of a change of address when moving to live abroad."
So, I live in Austria. UK driving licences are valid indefinitely here, even though I am resident. DVLA will hold my old address which will be irrelevant. How does this fit in with the fact that I "must" inform them if I change my address??
Last edited by: Mike H on Wed 3 Nov 10 at 16:20
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...and further browsing reveals "Remember, if you permanently move to another country, you can’t register your new address on your British driving licence. You’ll need to contact the driving licence authority in your country of residence" just to add to the confusion.
And it doesn't say I have to surrender my UK licence....
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Without looking it up I think the rules are the same across the entire EU, i.e. that if you need to exchange your native country's licence for a local one if you're resident there...
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Well, the austrian equivalent of direct.gov.uk at www.help.gv.at/Content.Node/139/Seite.1390000.html states that my UK licence is valid indefinitely, and that it can be converted on a voluntary basis. If I do convert it, one of the requirements is is that I may need to produce my residence certificate. Conversely, I read that to mean that, even if I am resident (which I am, and have the various papers to prove it), I don't need to convert it. I just think it's very confusing. I guess the half-way house is to register my UK licence at my son's UK address if I want to retain my UK licence. I have no strong feelings either way, but I was interested in what the legal position was, given the contradictory wording from the DVLA in that they don't say " You must surrender your UK licence if you move abroad". One would have thought they would state that rather than fudging the issue by referring to the policies of the individual countries.
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I do not see the problem why not change it I live in Germany and I am registered here I also have a house in the UK.It was the most simple of operations to get a German licence as I sure it is to get an Austrian licence.The main difference is that a German licence is not address based unlike the UK licence.I would not like to have an accident in Germany and some clever solictor uncover that that I had a UK licence and I have not lived in the UK for a number of years.The British Embassy correctly in my opinion said as a UK driving licence is address based then you need to inform them of your change of address or it is a worthless document.When its so easy to change both ways when you return to the UK then why not or is there a reason why you do not want to.
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>> When its so easy to change both
>> ways when you return to the UK then why not or is there a reason
>> why you do not want to.
>>
No reason, just want to keep legal. And not spend unnecessary cash.
But my point is, DVLA state that there is no need to tell them of your change of address if you move abroad. I just think that the whole thing could be made clearer.
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That is correct but you have to hand your licence in in the country of your residence and claim one of their.The UK licence is then sent back to the UK the DT then know you are a non dom and will hold the licence till you wish to change back to a UK one.As I said its easy cheap and why not be legal surely its better than the opposite.I really think you have another motive for not changing but thats your business.
Last edited by: Collos on Wed 3 Nov 10 at 18:20
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>> I really think you have another motive for not changing but thats your business.
>>
At the risk of repeating myself, I have nothing to hide. There is no hidden agenda. Punkt.
But, unless I haven't looked hard enough, there is nothing on direct.gov.uk that says I have to hand in my licence. I'm simply looking for clarity, and not spending €100 with associated hassle (which is what I guess you are calling my hidden agenda). I'm assuming that all DVLA want is an address whereby they can contact me. My son knows where I am.
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You do not have to hand it in in the UK you need to hand it in in the country you are in to get your new licence.Why on earth would you hand it in in the UK your not there, as far as the DT are concerned you are a UK citizen until they receive the licence back from your new country after they receive it they could not care a sue about you until you want it back.By the way the UK licence is the only one in the EU that is address based as far as I know.
Last edited by: Collos on Wed 3 Nov 10 at 19:00
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The UK licence is unique in that it is address based.
But the DVLA system can't accomodate foreign addresses, so there is no need to inform them if you leave the country (well, you can inform them but nothing can happen). The UK licence is valid in any EU country for as long as it's valid (if you see what I mean). When it runs out, you are then required to swap it to one from your resident country. Of course, you can do it before then if required.
But beware!!! Some expats here have swapped theirs over and the good ol' DVLA have taken forever to confirm to the new country the details required. One guy I know had his stuff lost, and another got his new licence with the wrong groups on it. And all the time this is going on, they've had no licence in their possesion. Some of it smells of the old 'lost entitlement' scandal. Sure, they kept a copy of the old licence, but trying to act as a go-between with DVLA and their 'new' countries licencing department has proved frustrating in the extreme.
My advice, keep the UK one, and at renewal time think very carefully about swapping it or using an english friend's address.
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Unless things have changed, an EU driving licence is valid when you are resident in another EU country for up to 12 months. If you are resident longer than 12 months you have to swap your original (e.g. UK) licence for a local one. Like I say, this may have changed.
A mate of mine got caught out when he was living in Germany in the late 90s. He went to Switzerland for a weekend and on the way back to Germany his licence got checked by the German border police. Once they'd established he'd lived in Germany for 2 years and not changed his UK licence for a German one, they impounded his car. He ended up calling his boss who drove half way across Germany to collect him and drive his car back.
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A UK licence is not valid from the day you give up your UK address exept for the time given to change.When the German or Austrian authorities take your UK licence and destroy it and put a banned in this country notice put on you its to late and believe you me it does happen.
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Collos, you're talking rubbish I'm afraid.
From the EU website:-
Article 1(2) of Directive 91/439/EEC states that licences issued in another Member State must be recognised in the host Member State. Therefore, you are no longer under any obligation to exchange your driving licence if your normal residence is now in a Member State other than the one which issued it.
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Looking at the DirectGov site it seems that if you have a full licence from any EU country you can exchange it for a full UK licence if you become a UK Resident as well.
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No I am not and I resent your comment. We are talking about becoming a resident of a particular EU state not going on business or holiday.Read a bit more and do not jump to conclusions.The problem is the UK licence is address based do you understand that bit ,so if you move to another EU country to live then you need a new licence because your old one does not have the correct address do you understand that bit.You live in the UK and you do not even understand the basic requirement to drive you would not last long in Germany.
Last edited by: Collos on Thu 4 Nov 10 at 13:22
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Here's the DirectGov section on driving in the UK on a licence from another EU state...
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DrivingInGbOnAForeignLicence/DG_4022556
Relevent section:
"Car, motorcycle driving licence holders (ordinary driving licence):
until aged 70 or for three years after becoming resident, whichever is the longer period"
Looking at that it would appear that if you are resident over 3 years then you have to change your licence to a UK one... I don't know if the other countries have similar rules... So in answer to Mike's OP then it would be a question of looking it up on their Gov's website, in his case the Austrian site.
Last edited by: hobby on Thu 4 Nov 10 at 13:42
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The problem is that the UK licence is address based when you move abroad its no longer legal you no longer live there simple really.
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Collos, read this, especially the bit at the end which is where Mike's coming from:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DG_10023103
He is right in that he does not have to tell them of the change of address... BUT it does say that he must check up the local rules to see if (or more probably when ) he must exchange his licence for one local to that country... So in his case he must contact the Austrian authorities and find out what he must do. However, daft as it sounds, the DirectGov site says that he doesn't have to change the address! It may be sensible to do so, though, I'd agree, but the licence IS valid in another EU country for a certain period of time with his old UK address!
Last edited by: hobby on Thu 4 Nov 10 at 13:58
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Brick wall and a failure to understand .I bow to greater knowledge and I have done it wrong along with hundreds of other people I will tell the British embassy they are wrong along with the German authorities and the DofT and tell them my reference is someone on web site who has not read all of the information available but they are correct and you are wrong.
I can just see the German police after they have stopped me German registered ,German pass,German health card and a UK licence.
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But the OP's in Austria, and they unpicked the Anschluss some time ago...
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Collos, forgive me, but which bit of the UK Gov sites I referred you to are you disagreeing with?
Also, as I and others have said, we told Mike to check up with the Austrian authorities to see what needs to be done... and how quickly...
Are you, by any chance, assuming that the Austrian and German Governments will have the same regulations?
That brick wall works, both ways! ;-)
Last edited by: hobby on Thu 4 Nov 10 at 19:19
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Well, I've had a nice email from the driving licence office confirming that the austrian authorities do not need me to exchange my licence, not now or in the future as it is valid indefinitely. She also helpfully explained what documents I needed to take to the office if I wanted to obtain an austrian licence - my english one, my passport, and a photo.
Just need to decide what course of action to take now.
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Collos,
I don't know where you got your information about the requirements of the German authorities but our local office had a big notice up saying that there was no requirement to exchange EU licences for German ones. Indeed, a known trick for those who have lost their German licence because of a ban and failed the idiot test to get it back is to obtain a new licence from a different EU country. The police have no problems with UK licences being used to drive German registered vehicles, even with a German medical card (though why they should ask to see this I don't know).
Biggles
Last edited by: Biggles on Thu 4 Nov 10 at 19:28
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Same in Poland. Plenty of Police have seen my UK licence and all my other "papers", none of them care.
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Because I am now a German citizen resident in Germany not the UK if you care to read the Dof T web site it says you must do what each particular country requires and Germany if you become a resident you have to hand your UK licence in and get a German one its simple I and thousands of others have done it.As far as Poland is concerned you can buy any type of licence for the going rate including HGV if you know where to look (Bad Morscau).
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I know whats required I am German and live in Germany.
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I bow to your superior knowledge. Being still British after 15 years here, clearly I do not know the local laws.
Biggles
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I thought with an EU driving licence you have the right to drive for up to 3 years before you need to exchange it. And it's a formality and a fee only - no retest. Unlike when say moving from the UK to the USA where you need to take a test and deal with no, no claims discount.
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Collos,
Having looked into this again, the following
"Inhaber einer gültigen Fahrerlaubnis aus einem Mitgliedstaat der Europäischen Union (EU) oder einem anderen Vertragsstaat des Abkommens über den Europäischen Wirtschaftsraum (EWR) benötigen auch nach Begründung eines ordentlichen Wohnsitzes im Inland keine inländische Fahrberechtigung."
Source: www.stuttgart.de/item/show/319568
does seem to show that you are mistaken.
Biggles
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>> if you
>> care to read the Dof T web site it says you must do what each
>> particular country requires
Thats what we were saying!!!!
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Well, just to clarify the issue, I have asked the local authority resoponsible for issuing licences (note: this is the local, rather than national, authority, and I can actually walk in and speak to someone!) to clarify the matter from the austrian perspective, although everything I read is quite clear on the subject - no obligation to exchange, and I can keep my UK licence indefinitely.
Based on the various comments here, I can then make an informed decison on the best course of action. I'm tempted just to notify the UK authorities of a change of address and use my son's address in the UK, and at the the same time this will give me the "benefit" of a UK photocard driving licence. As far as I can see, there is no overriding reason for DVLA to require an address at which they can instantly reach me, as long as I can always be contacted via the áddress I give them it would seem to meet the spirit of any requirements they may have, if not perhaps technically the letter of the law.
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Even when retaining your UK licence remember you are obliged to follow your host country's medical rules, i.e., in Spain medical required every 10 years up to age 70. Also if nearing 70 it is best to change to a local licence as you will not be able to renew your UK licence without a UK address.
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Its ok he is not going to stay in Austria very long,no committment.
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Collos, I and others have noted that you have an attitude problem. I take offence at your remark, please refrain from adding any further comments to this thread.
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>>>I know whats required I am German and live in Germany. <<<<
It is not an attitude problem, merely a national characteristic!
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...Or perhaps this...fakeutilitys.com/id28.html...
I see they offer copies of UK licences as well.
Very reassuring.
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And no worries of them spelling anything wrong... as on the home page:
>> ALL ENQUIERYS EMAIL US AT fakeutilitys@yahoo.com
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ROFL, glad you've caught up, I gave this same link right at the top of this thread in the very beginning. Which is why I noted at the time there was no need, from an austrian perspective, to change my licence at any point.
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ROFL - does this translate? maybe not , in view of cultural differences! Just let collos have the sunloungers rather than annex Austria.
Last edited by: pmh on Mon 8 Nov 10 at 17:11
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Firstly, thanks to everyone here. I woke at 4am realising my UK licence has an address on it!! Three days to go before my house sale completes and with a van booked to drive my home to Finland, thanks to you guys I feel a little calmer.
The conflict here seems to reflect a conflict inside the UK system. The advice given on www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DG_10023103 seems contradictory:-
"Make sure: the details on your driving licence are up to date"
"You don't need to notify DVLA of a change of address when moving to live abroad."
If I am living abroad then the details on my licence will at that time not be "up to date" as the address will be wrong, so I both need to change the address and I don't need to change the address. I am now wondering how UK insurers deal with this.
I've sold my house and I'm leaving the country in a hire van. I have no need to notify the DVLA of my "change of address" - which anyway couldn't be recorded it seems - BUT I need to have the correct details on my UK driving licence.
I expect to be asked for my driving licence when picking up the hire van and at that moment in time it will be correct/valid as I will still have that "permanent" residence in the UK . However, one day later, that address will no longer be mine and so will the licence will become incorrect/invalid? However I may retain my UK licence and it will remain valid until its expiry date!! Come again?!?!?
Anyway, besides the wopping fines someone mentioned here, the real issue seems to me to be whether the vehicle's/hirer's/my insurance will remain valid for me to drive from that moment when I cease to have a UK permanent residence? A question for the insurer's no doubt, though while the issue for Me vs Global Fleet Insurance PLC is one thing, surely there should be some general standard/rule/law here?
p.s
I wanted to add though that from a cold read through it seems to me that Collos has been ganged up on. Mike (angrily?) called Collos a "punk" after Collos (rashly?) questioned Mike's motives. Then Collos went a bit ballistic feeling his point regarding the address issue was not being taken seriously. Whatever, I found the anti-German remarks that followed ... "unsettling", maybe as they made me realise that I laugh at similar jokes when made on TV. Odd. These sort of "sunlounger" etc jokes have always seem(ed) ok to me when made in general but now I find they are something different when targeted at a real person.
p.s.s
Permanence of residence is something that can only be established as a fact with hindsight. It is also possible quite legally to be resident in more than one country at the same time.
Apologies for the length of this, and thanks again.
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Have you got a close relative in the UK, whose address you can use ?
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Why DVLA can't accommodate a non UK address in their system?
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>> Why DVLA can't accommodate a non UK address in their system?
>>
Funnnily enough, both the Czech authorities (who flat out refused to exchange mine prior to its expiry) and the Dutch (who agreed to do so, but were mystified as to why I would want to prior to its expiry, going so far as to ask three times if I was *sure* I wanted to go ahead) said exactly the same thing to me when I explained the problem.
For sheer confusion value on the continent, you can't beat producing the paper section of a British photocard license and asking if they want it though. As far as I can make out, that bit's a uniquely British idea and its purpose is opaque and shrouded in mystery to the rest of Europe.
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>> Why DVLA can't accommodate a non UK address in their system?
Because they shouldnt have to. Why would you need a UK driving license if you are living abroad? You should get the appropriate license.
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Because people may live abroad only temporarily.
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Their home address in the UK is still valid then.,
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Luckily, yes I have RP, thanks.
I think this is how it goes ....
You need to change the address on the UK licence if you're in the UK so that if you get an endorsement the documents get sent to the correct address. If you don't reply to any request to send in your licence then after 28 days it would be revoked. If you are living abroad you aren't going to get any UK endorsements so no need for a new address as far as DVLA are concerned.
Your UK licence is valid in the UK until you're 70. If you're en route to another country, as you can't get another licence before you get there, as far as the UK authorites are concerned you're fit to drive. What the country you're driving through thinks is another matter. If they want to endorse your licence for some reason then they'd send the documents to the wrong address but be never the wiser. If a European foreign national came to the UK their driving licence would be endorsed by way of a piece of paper that would be attached to it.
Once you're in a new country it's up to that country to determine what they want you to do. European countries are "exchangeable countries" so it should be a straight swap of Uk to other EU country licence, and when/if you get back to Blighty it would be a straight swap back again, and with no fee at the UK end anyway.
Phew!
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Hello Mike,
I have a UK licence which photo expired a few months ago. I have left the UK in 2006, gone to Germany then France - I now need to renew the photo. No obligation to exchange to French one anymore since a few years. I am thinking to use a UK friend address to save me the hassle of French administration.
I was wondering : what did you do at the end ? Did you use your son's address ? Does the DVLA make checks or they just print a new card and send it over to the address you have given (and...is there an issue with renewing the photcard and changing address at the same time ? What do I need to do at the postoffice, what forms etc...).
Cheers
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I left the UK a few years back, not on a permanent basis but I'm in no rush to return just yet. There was no need to exchange my UK license for the couple of years I was in Hong Kong as I had no car. There is no obligation to do so in Victoria, Australia where I am now living unless you apply for permanent residence.
However, my UK photo-ID expired last year and I phoned the DVLA (from HK) and was helpfully told that they wouldn't renew my photo-ID whilst I was living abroad. I asked whether my UK license was still 'valid' and was told that it is and they'd happily renew the photo-ID whenever I return to the UK.
Since I need to rent cars when I travel and who knows what a US or UK Hertz agent would say to my expired UK photo-ID, I got an HK license and obtained a Victorian one only last week. In both cases they'll accept a UK photo-ID licence in 'exchange' as long as it hasn't expired by more than 2 or 3 years. Interestingly both endorsed my license to require the wearing of spectacles, not something my UK license ever had since I passed my test at 17 without them, however not an endorsement I'm aware of on UK licenses either ?
I am amused by the notion of handing a UK policeman my HK or Vic license were I to be asked for it but I suspect that I am too law-abiding for that in reality.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Thu 14 Mar 13 at 11:42
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Technically, if you're no longer a UK resident then it can't be renewed. But of course if you have a suitable UK address then it can be done that way, as DVLA don't cross check any details. The address can be changed at the same time as renewal.
The only problem is they are a bit picky about the photo. I was in the UK for a few days so got it all done and checked at the post office, and the licence arrived a week or so later.
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Hi Dave
I see you were once part of this thread. I am in a situation whilst living abroad [Italy] and need to renew my UK license. In all the to-ing and fro-ing in this thread your few lines made the most sense. Good one!!
Is it possible that you can help me in more detail exactly what you did, so I can be sure to get an updated license without the worry of the losing it?
Many Thanks
Al
Last edited by: AlGisby on Wed 19 Nov 14 at 19:10
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>> something my UK license ever had since I passed my test at 17 without them,
>> however not an endorsement I'm aware of on UK licenses either ?
>>
IIRC one of the figures in your driver number indicates whether or not you declared yourself a spectacle wearer on applying for your licence.
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>> Without looking it up I think the rules are the same across the entire
>> EU, i.e. that if you need to exchange your native country's licence for a local
>> one if you're resident there...
>>
You'll be wrong then. Both CZ and NL took the attitude that my UK license was perfectly valid there until it expired. I actually went through with the exchange process in NL, despite everyone involved acting all confused and asking why the heck I was bothering.
I did point out that the address in the UK that the license was held at was no longer valid and that I couldn't change it to my Dutch address. Responses to that ranged from incredulity to outright laughter.
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I Just came across this useful discussion. I realise the last post was over a year ago. I can see where Mike H. was coming from. I had exactly the same questions on my mind having moved to Finland from the UK over 2 years ago. The thread has helped me decide to keep my UK licence, rather than exchange it for a local one. Strange that the UK seems to be the only country in Europe who require an address on the licence itself. From media reports it seems there are vast numbers of people who aren't updating their addresses anyway so wouldn't it be easier for everyone to remove it altogether as the rest of Europe have done? Living abroad makes you realise how inefficient the UK can be.
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Thanks Finnman, you prompted me to update this thread with what happened in the end. I'm intrigued as to why you decided to keep your UK licence, as the cleanest solution would have been to exchange yours for a Finnish one - are you not staying indefinitely?
In January/February 2012 we decided to exchange our UK licences for Austrian ones. Because they were paper rather than card licences, that also meant that we needed to get an official translation from English to German. The administrative system here is very regionalised, so we were able to visit the local office that issues licences, and talk to a nice young lady. She took all our details and gave us the address of the nearest certified translator. We managed to keep the cost of the translation down to €100, as he very sensibly realised that apart from names and valid groups, my wife and I had identical licences so he only had to translate them once. And in addition, he skipped some irrelevant bits and inserted a note that he'd done so - he did say that he might not get away with that, and if it had been Vienna everything would have had to be translated.
There was a delay to the process caused by.....DVLA. They had to confirm that the licences were genuine. It took 4 or so attempts to get the relevant confirmation, and there was a £5 per person charge.
Once the office had the confirmations, they contacted us and we returned to complete the paperwork, which had all been prepared for us and only required signatures. That was the Tuesday. On the Thursday our new licences arrived in the post! And not only do we have our original vehicle classes, we can now drive tractors plus HGVs up to 7500kgs with a trailer!
One of the "benefits" of our new licences is that they never expire, unlike the UK where they have to be renewed, although the system was changed here a couple of months after we got ours to be similar to the UK where they have to be renewed once you reach a certain age.
And the system for getting them has also recently changed. English friends here have exchanged their licences in the last few months, and no translation was required - sensible, as all UK licences are the same except for names and groups, and presumably someone here has realised that.
Lastly, I discovered a downside to the exchange. I tried to hire a van from a local company in the area where my parents live last year, and was told that their insurance company doesn't recognise EU licences, only UK ones. I briefly argued, but didn't carry it through because I decided it wasn't the right option for my needs anyway.
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Just to add to this thread, a non-EU tale.
I'm into my 5th year 'away' from the UK now, initially in Hong Kong where I had no car and no need to drive, however my UK PhotoID expired and I contacted the DVLA to be told I couldn't renew with a non-UK address, that my licence isn't invalid (as such) and will be renewable the moment I return to the UK. I needed a valid licence to hire cars (in the UK and US) but was able to obtain a Hong Kong driving licence as a direct 'exchange' (although they do not remove or repatriate your UK licence). The proviso is that the UK licence hasn't expired by more than 2 years. This licence was sufficient for the major car hire companies.
Roll forward a year and I'm in Victoria, Australia, here again there is a facility to swap a UK licence provided it hasn't expired by more than 2 years. As a non citizen I could drive indefinitely on a (valid PhotoID) UK licence but since you are asked for your licence as PhotoID regularly I opted to get a Victorian/Australian licence. Again - I've hired cars in the UK on this without any problem.
I would dearly love the DVLA to allow foreign addresses on their licences, but I guess it isn't really in their core mission to help people living abroad.....
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UK driving licence, living abroad - Mike H
