Motoring Discussion > Mileage rate - Tax problem ?	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Runfer D'Hills	Replies: 45

Tue 19 Oct 10 14:40   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

A question please re use of private car for company business. I have a company car, a Qashqai. Tomorrow though I have to make a 400 mile round trip while carrying a load of work related kit which won't all fit in that car. I still own an old Mondeo estate which is still insured for business use by me which I used to use when I was self employed. The Ford would be capable of shifting everything I need tomorrow. So, I was thinking of offering to use the Mondy for the trip. If I do, what would be a reasonable mileage rate to charge my employers on a one off basis ? I was thinking to ask for 40p a mile being the sort of standard rate which I used to "charge" my own company for tax purposes up to 10000 miles a year and then reverted to 25p thereafter. However, given that I already have a company car, could this have a tax implication I've not thought of ? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 14:45   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - R.P.

Can't you come to an arrangement whereby the private miles of the Qashqai are increased in proportion so you can have increased use of the Quashqai to offset the use of the Mondeo - or would that be too hard for the bean counters ? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 15:01   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

It's the obvious solution PU and the common sense one but having been the subject of a full Inland Revenue investigation in the past I never ever want to give them the slightest reason to consider doing that again. In that instance I managed to prove that they had made a mistake and not me but the whole process was very unpleasant indeed. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 14:46   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Zero

You cant "charge" your employers for anything as you are then acting as "hire and reward" and you are not insured for that, and effectively become self employed as well as PAYE. How does your employer reimburse you for fuel now? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 14:51   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

I currently submit all fuel receipts and a statement of business mileage. I then deduct from the expenses claim a pro rata amount to cover my private mileage. So in other words, if I had say, £150 of receipts and had covered 900 business miles in the period and 100 private miles I would charge my employers for 9/10 ths of the fuel or £135. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 15:00   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Zero

wow thats complex. what ever happened to xxp per buisiness mile? How do you propose to "bill" them for the use of your own car? Given the above, what mechanism do you have to get them to pay you? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 15:03   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

A simple claim. X miles at Y rate = £Z Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 15:11   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Mapmaker

>> A simple claim. X miles at Y rate = £Z Cannot see why that won't work. 1. They do provide you with a company car. You will probably find that under such circumstances (i.e. provision of either a car or a car allowance) the normal procedure is to pay you only 12p per mile. But... 2. The car they provide isn't big enough. Therefore you are saving them money so they might be prepared to pay you HMRC's tax-free allowance of 40p per mile. 3. If they don't give you 40p per mile, then the difference between whatever they do give you - say 12p - and 40p, i.e. 28p per mile, is a tax deduction on your own tax return. You then get a tax refund of 20/40/50% of 28p per mile. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 15:14   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Tooslow

It's not really worth the trouble is it? Humph is trying to be helpful but the system is working against him. Hire a bigger car at company's expense or take a part load and courier the rest. Or make two trips if you enjoy the day out. John Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 15:19   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Beginning to think you're right John. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 15:15   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Thanks Mapmaker. Understood. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 16:13   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - rtj70

Because you have a company car, then this could get complex tax wise. I would have thought you cannot claim anywhere near 40p per mile. I personally would tell the employer to pay for a hire car (or van?) that is big enough. They need you to go somewhere with equipment that won't fit in the car they provide. What would they expect you to do if you didn't have the Mondeo. And sods law says something could go wrong etc. I haven't even thought about insurance implications for using your car for business. There might also be an age/mileage limit on cars that can be used for company business - there is with my employer. With all the new laws around corporate manslaughter and similar, they encourage more people to take company cars again with us. Or so it seems. Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 19 Oct 10 at 16:15 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 16:16   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - idle_chatterer

I seem to recall that HMRC have fixed mileage rates at which there is no tax liability. IIRC it's around 40-45p per mile. An alternative is to be paid a one-off daily payment for the use of your private car plus your standard mileage rate. I haven't heard of your approach of pro-rating private miles from actual receipts but it could be an arrangement your employer has with HMRC. my (rather large) employer has no such arrangement and pays a meagre mileage rate to anyone who has a company car or allowance. Those who take the allowance can do something to get the tax back on the delta between the full rate and the actual rate and avoid NI too but I can't recall how that works. If I were you I'd just claim it as-if it were the Squashy and maybe arrange for the company to pay for a dinner out (below HMRC limits of course) for you and Mrs Humph or whoever, it's called pragmatism I think. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 16:24   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - rtj70

The way Humph claims back mileage is similar to my employer but we have a fuel card. A fixed amount is taken from salary each month based on what we think we would use on average for private miles (mine is £80). Then we submit expense claims for business mileage (even if 0) so the amount spent on the fuel card can be pro-rated between private and business miles. Any difference used for private is then credited/debited the following month. It seems a fairly simple system but it can be in your favour if the personal mileage was say local and the business was motorway - the MPG for the business miles will be better. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 16:27   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Thanks everyone, I think I might have decided to take the Nissan and live without some of the stuff I wanted to take. Next time the car is to be renewed I'll have to ask for something with a bigger loadspace. Plan A is just sounding too hard all of a sudden ! :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 16:29   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - rtj70

I assume when its replaced you get to choose what you get? I seem to recall you inherited someone elses car when you joined? And a BMW X5 was an option too. Although tax wise that might have cost you. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 16:32   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Yes that's right. In fairness to them they say they don't really care, within reason, what I have so long as it does the job. Some of my contemporaries have very flashy things while others choose to have more modest vehicles for tax purposes. I'll have to give it some thought one day. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 16:45   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - ....

>> I'll have to give it some thought one day. >> You do that and you know you'll end up with a 2.0 diesel Mondeo estate :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 17:01   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Yeah probably, should I have silver, black or gunmetal grey this time do you think ? :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 17:15   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - ....

Tough choice with the nine shades of White, Grey, Blue or Black Ford are currently offering: Blazer Blue Frozen White Dark Micastone Metallic £495.00 Ink Blue Metallic £495.00 Lunar Sky Metallic £495.00 Midnight Sky Metallic £495.00 Moondust Silver Metallic £495.00 Panther Black Metallic £495.00 Ice White Pearlescent £725.00 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 17:46   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Well it wouldn't be either of the whites or a pale blue. Apparently, and don't shoot the messenger here...apparently, white or pale blue cars are chosen by men who are sexually confused. According to some trick cyclist or other. Anyway, I wouldn't have chosen those colours anyway, ( he says in rumbling manly, vaguely Scots accented tones...) :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:06   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - BobbyG

Why not use the Mondeo, fill the tank at start, fill it at end and your second receipt you submit as expenses. Can't argue with that? And lets face it you don't really need much extra to cover for depreciation and wear and tear??? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:11   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

>>And lets face it you don't really need much extra to cover for depreciation and wear and tear??? The cheek of the man ! Got years in it yet that car... :-) I've just packed the Squashy to the max. It'll have to do... Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Tue 19 Oct 10 at 20:11 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:15   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Iffy

...I've just packed the Squashy to the max. It'll have to do... Do you have such a thing as a clip-on bike rack? You could hang a couple more boxes off one of those. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:16   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - MD

'elpful 'e is not. 0:-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:17   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - -

Ooh, straight for the jugular Iffy, 15 love. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:19   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Just goes to prove my ( admittedly seldom mentioned ) theory that estate cars are the best configuration available. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:27   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - BobbyG

If you had an iphone / Android you could have done your powerpoint from it and wouldn't need to carry around the OHP and screen with you!!! :) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:34   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - ....

>> Just goes to prove my ( admittedly seldom mentioned ) theory that estate cars are >> the best configuration available. >> >> :-) >> Or, if you have to do this again in the near future you could contact Renault and ask about a 24/48 hr test drive of an Espace. :-) Last edited by: gmac on Tue 19 Oct 10 at 20:37 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:38   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

I'm just giving you fair warning gmac, any more of that sort of talk and I shall report your post as offensive ! ...and as for phoning androids Bobby, I'm sure I wouldn't know what to say to them.. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:49   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - ....

Point taken Humph it is a bit much suggesting you take advantage of a manufacturers good nature. Just bite the bullet and take on a four year non-maintenance contract and enjoy ! :-P Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:53   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Hmmm, maybe not in this lifetime or the next ! Nurse ? Nurse ?... Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:51   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Zero

>> ...and as for phoning androids Bobby, I'm sure I wouldn't know what to say to >> them.. Wanna buy some shoes gov? (in a deep Scottish - I'm not really gay - burr) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:52   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Iffy

And just to make Humph weep a bit more, I went to Wynsor in Middlesbrough yesterday and bought a £10 pair of suede slip-ons with very stylish moulded soles, and a £5 pair of what they call moccasins, but what I call slippers. Add a pair of £1 foam rubber insoles for a truly luxurious wearing experience. Total bill £17. Last edited by: Iffy on Tue 19 Oct 10 at 20:53 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:57   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Dear God Iffy, just try to calculate how well the person who made those was paid and treated ! Not pretty... Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Tue 19 Oct 10 at 20:57 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 21:03   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Iffy

...Dear God Iffy, just try to calculate how well the person who made those was paid and treated ! Not pretty... I might try to assuage the guilt by buying a £1,000 Apple Mac. Except I imagine the Chinaman/woman/child who made the computer is paid no more than the Chinaman/woman/child who made the shoes. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 21:07   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - MD

What would they do if we weren't here to give them our business??? Well, well???? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 21:08   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

We might still have a business of our own instead. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 20:57   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - BobbyG

Iffy, you could have got a used Mondeo Estate for that sort of money...... ... with a bike rack thrown in Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 21:04   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

That's it..Away an' bile yer heid Bobby ! :-) Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Tue 19 Oct 10 at 21:06 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 21:06   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Iffy

...Away an' bile yer heid Bobby !... I think the sweaties are now communicating in their own language. Where's David Attenbrough when you need him? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 21:24   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Would that be this David Attenborough then ? ( not to be a spelling pedant you understand ...) :-)) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Attenborough Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 21:29   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Iffy

...Would that be this David Attenborough then ? ( not to be a spelling pedant you understand ...)... Damn, captured, and by a blinkin' shoe salesman at that. This will take some living down. Anyway, shouldn't you be thinking about going to bed? Long day tomorrow. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 21:28   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - BobbyG

>>That's it..Away an' bile yer heid Bobby ! In a tinnie????? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Oct 10 21:39   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - Runfer D'Hills

Naw, in a jeely pan.. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 21 Oct 10 03:17   Mileage rate - Tax problem ? - idle_chatterer

Get a tow-bar fitted, on a company car it won't impact the residuals and they are amazingly useful e.g. for the fitment of stable bike carriers..... You can put the extra stuff (especially if it's likely to damage the interior) in a trailer and it has far less impact on fuel economy than roof racks or hauling around empty space when you don't need it in a people carrier, you can have a smaller car for general use (spend the money on the engine rather than capacity or bling) and modern removable tow-balls are invisible when not in use - or alternatively available to puncture the radiator of the idiot who rolls into the back of you at a roundabout whilst leaving you with no damage. Reply to this message | Report message