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Without expressing your disgust for smoking, can i be fined through the post if an police officer following me sees me chuck a cigarette from my car window but doesnt pull me over?
Last edited by: Pugugly on Mon 18 Oct 10 at 20:40
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Let's hope so. Why do smokers imagine their butts just disappear if they tread on them or throw them out of the window?
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Or even go into PU's motorcycle helmet if he happens to have the vizor up! Not nice
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Technically a really mean-spirited copper probably can nbd. And no doubt you will be getting a lot of mean-spirited flak from other snout-haters. Other than WDB I mean, not me. I am worse than neutral on the subject.
:o}
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Doesn't have to be a mean-spirited copper. In certain parts of Wales (and I daresay England too) mean-spirited council officials will fine you £75 for littering if they catch you. Obviously a motorist is an easy target cos they can trace them through the vehicle's registration.
I wouldn't have an issue with it were it not for the fact that none of the revenue raised seems to go towards providing litter bins.
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>> I wouldn't have an issue with it were it not for the fact that none
>> of the revenue raised seems to go towards providing litter bins.
>>
Cars have ashtrays or if not provide one for yourself you disgusting inconsiderate Chap. I take it you are a Chap?
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provide one for yourself you disgusting inconsiderate Chap. I
>> take it you are a Chap?
>>
So much for the OP's request for politeness, you non-smoker. I take it you are a non-smoker?
FYI Mr. Devon, I was referring to the general thing about litter-dropping revenue, not just car drivers and cigarette ends; as should have been reasonably obvious had your eyesight not been clouded by nicotine perception.
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>> do smokers imagine their butts just disappear if they tread on
>> them or throw them out of the window?
Why not? the smoke just disapears, is it not the same for the ash and butts?
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If there is an offence witnessed, and there's evidence as to who committed it...?
Were you to refuse a fixed penalty, assuming you have that right, and decline to provide details of the driver, evidence might be hard to come by.
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i am indeed a chap, and i also know smoking is dirty and bad. Thanks for your replies.
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Don't need to describe the neanderthal in the passenger seat of the Astra van that hurled what looked like an extra large McD milk shake carton over the roof and into the area of greenery by the marina just south of the Black Cat a week last Friday afternoons queue, he may have had eyes under the extended brow but without powerful lights the shade created by said brow put the rest of his mug in silhouette.
Just sometimes you really really wish that you could get away with using an RPG in certain circs for the betterment of all.
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one would hope so
nice but dim
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>> Without expressing your disgust for smoking, can i be fined through the post if an
>> police officer following me sees me chuck a cigarette from my car window but doesnt
>> pull me over?
Possibly, if you can be positively identified as the litter lout (?).
Having read other "contributions", I'm compelled to add something. Fag ends are a very minor problem - if they're "filters", then the filter will take some time to rot away, of course, as it's full of "creosote", but they're not much in the great scheme of things - *but*, and get this, walk along the verge of a busy (or even relatively rural, near towns) road, and see what you can see. Fast food litter abounds; polystyrene, glass bottles, material from "audio tapes", metal tins, bits of borken plastic from crashes, plastic bags, rubber johnnies, foil, plasterboard and other thrown away building materials, furniture and rubbish that's been dumped by the roadside, you name it and it'll be there, somewhere. A sad indication of the number of thoughtless scumbags that drive.
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In some cities (E.g Nottingham) you could be fined on the spot for dropping a cigarette but on the floor. And so you should as it's littering.
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Cigarette ends thrown from a car can be a bit of a special case when it comes to littering - I'm thinking of cases where the undergrowth is tinder-dry in summer and the thrown butt-end causes a fire. (More of a problem in hotter countries though)
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I've been hit in the visor by a dog-end. The pyrotechnics were alarming and blinding.
I reckon tobacco users should be encouraged - they're saving me a fortune in tax.
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Mate of mine dropped his chip paper in the street in Windermere. He got nabbed by a copper, charged with littering and fined. This criminal act meant his application to emigrate to Australia got rejected. This, by the way, was in 1986.
I'm not normally one to demand extreme penalties for apparently minor discrepancies. I hate littering with a passion though and it's one of the few things that brings out the interfering busybody in me. I fail to understand what goes through someone's mind when they hurl their chip paper, chewing gum or cigarette end into the street in order for someone else to step on it or have to deal with it.
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...This criminal act meant his application to emigrate to Australia got rejected.
The irony in that is delicious.
};---)
I may have been wrong to tar all smokers with the same carcinogen; Pat has reminded us that there are some who take the trouble to contain their own mess rather than inflict it on the rest of us. NBD, please take note.
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...This criminal act meant his application to emigrate to Australia got rejected...
Reminds me of the old joke about a British businessman going through customs at Sydney airport.
"Do you have a criminal record?" asks the man on the gate.
"No," the businessman replies. "I didn't realise you still needed one."
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>> "Do you have a criminal record?" asks the man on the gate.
>>
>> "No," the businessman replies. "I didn't realise you still needed one."
>>
>>
He must have enjoyed the prospect of being strip searched, and his luggage minutely inspected, and a few hours delay. Instead of it all being xrayed in seconds. I have found that the Australian immigration officers sense of humour is no better than any other country, and they understand every word spoken in English. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 19 Oct 10 at 08:47
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>>I fail to understand what goes through someone's mind when they hurl their chip paper, chewing gum or cigarette end into the street in order for someone else to step on it or have to deal with it.
>>
The only thing that SHOULD go through their mind(s) is a high velocity hollow point bullet.
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>In some cities (E.g Nottingham) you could be fined on the spot for dropping a cigarette but on the floor.
Singapore doesn't have a litter problem either.
Kevin...
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"Fag ends are a very minor problem - if they're "filters", then the filter will take some time to rot away, of course"
They are made from cellulose acetate and take around 12 years to decompose
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"Without expressing your disgust for smoking, can I be fined through the post if a Police Officer following me sees me chuck a cigarette from my car window but doesn't pull me over?"
No. Not yet unfortunately. There would have to be some interaction between the offender and the reporting/issuing Officer.
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Just last Saturday, I went down to the bank and one or two other places.
I was disgusted by the mess on the corner outside one of the banks...the Spanish one.
They have two external cash machines and the pavement was littereed with receipt slips as well as the usual fast food detritus.
If I'd been the manager, I'd have had a junior outside to empty the little bins on a two hourly basis and sweep round the bank's bit of the corner......actually, I might have done it myself.
But this is the sloppy outfiit where the tellers greet you...' Are you all right there, mate ? '
...and you have to queue out onto the road sometimes.
Pah....no standards nowadays !
Ted
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Ted,
Never be allowed today - the Office Juniour would have to be trained to do it including collection of hazardous waste and the pavement would have to be coned off whilst he did it.
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>>>Without expressing your disgust for smoking, <<<
That is an impossibility now, nbd.
As soon as anyone mentions the word everyone thinks they have the right to insult you.
To add a practical comment ( and invite even more comments) I'm a smoker, but I don't like my lorry cab or car to smell of an ashtray, as it will if you use the one fitted.
The answer, I find is to buy an old fashioned tin of 'travel sweets' that are on sale at most forecourts.
Eat the sweets:) take the lid of when smoking and use it as an ashtray and put the lid back on when not smoking.
It works, and I'm sure these sweets are only still so popular because lorry drivers use them for this.
>>sits back and waits for the flak!
Pat
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I flick the ash out of a partially open window, but dispose of the butts in the ashtray. That get emptied every other day.
The past few weeks, I've been driving a test car from Hyundai.
1) it ain't mine; and 2) NO ASHTRAY!
Just goes to show how much my 'habit' is just that - something i do without thinking of it.
I easily commute to and from work in thr Hyundai without a puff, yet in MY car, I light up regularly. In fact, i'm close to chain smoking in it!
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Well said Pat - my wife and I do exactly the same with the mint/sweet tins except we don't smoke in the car so they are used wherever we are. I also have a little chromed container I bought which slides open to contain butts, anda few years ago our son gave us a couple of containers called "Butts out" shaped like a bottom(!) on one side which were distributed by Leeds Council for containing ciggy butts.
As an aside, and with due respect to motorcyclists who may get hit by a butt, I would suggest that ciggy butts (or small cigar butts in my case) are a very small problem compared to the rest of the rubbish that is found by the sides of our roads. Recently I have pondered the viability of starting a company selling recycled flourescent jackets that I could pick up on my travels - there seem to be several every few miles by our roadsides - and as for plastic bottles..........(often with undrunk Lucozade, or is it Tizer or Irn Bru.........?)
Phil
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>>and as for plastic bottles..........(often with undrunk Lucozade, or is it Tizer or Irn Bru.........?)
I think you'll find it's none of those, just that colour.
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I can conform that it is none of those.
I can however confirm that the contents are male, as the female form does not have the ability to do this.
Pat
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>> I can conform that it is none of those.
>> I can however confirm that the contents are male, as the female form does not
>> have the ability to do this.
>>
>> Pat
>>
There are ways Pat.....
preview.tinyurl.com/26g5x3p
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Does it come in pink:)
Pat
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>> Does it come in pink:)
This one does.
www.go-girl.com/what-is-gogirl.asp
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This says that all you need is to be reported by a witness. However, I suspect it applies to the USA and not the UK.
www.ehow.com/list_6772772_littering-policies.html
Last edited by: L'escargot on Tue 19 Oct 10 at 07:43
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If you smoke, obsessive puritanical twits think they are justified in being rude to you, or if they are intelligent - not many opts are, but a few must be I suppose - giving you a slightly hard time about your unhealthy habits, the detritus whose volume they grossly exaggerate, and the allegation that the smell of tobacco smoke hangs about.
It does actually. My car smells of smoke so bang goes my chance of selling it to the sort of person I couldn't bear to talk to for more than 30 seconds*. I'm devastated about that squire I can tell you.
Cigarette ends, filters included, don't count as litter. The filters may not be very biodegrable but they are soon ground to dust and mixed with the other road detritus, mud, animal crap, brake and tyre dust** and all the rest. I know our streets and roads are totally squalid compared to e.g. those in small towns in eastern Australia, but they must be swept from time to time surely? They used to be, a bit.
Message to dreary anti-snout propagandists: STFU!
*Except one of my children, forgiven for her ocd idiocy for biological reasons.
** Both far more toxic than any tobacco product and more likely to be breathed in than a sodding filter.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 26 Jul 11 at 10:26
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...The filters may not be very biodegrable but they are soon ground to dust and mixed with the other road detritus, mud, animal crap, brake and tyre dust** and all the rest...
Rubbish, if you'll pardon the pun.
Most of them end up in the ocean via drains and rivers, where all those cancer-causing chemicals trapped in the filter are washed out and fed to fish and other marine life.
www.cleanoceanaction.org/index.php?id=161
www.longwood.edu/cleanva/ciglitterarticle.htm
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Glad I'm allergic to fish, then!
I can't see any difference between dropping a fag end or dropping a sweet wraper, I don't smoke, but I wouldn't even consider doing the latter, just take it home with you, as they used to say in the adverts!
Going back to the fag end/motorbike comment much earlier, I would point out that the ash is just as bad as the butt, in fact both times I've had trouble when riding the bike was from ash being knocked out of the window rather than the butt... If you smokers must dispose of the ash in this way at least have the decency to look behind you first, eh! ;-)
Last edited by: hobby on Sun 24 Oct 10 at 10:18
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I still remember the wonderful Matt cartoon on passive smoking. The blindfolded condemned man is smoking his last cigarette. The entire firing squad has dropped dead in a heap of men and rifles.
Would that these griping ninnies with their dodgy theories and dubious weblinks would do likewise. What a load of cobblers they do talk. Unbearable.
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...Would that these griping ninnies with their dodgy theories and dubious weblinks would do likewise. What a load of cobblers they do talk. Unbearable...
The information in the links I posted above appears to be well-researched.
So we have a choice between that, and your barely-civilised rant.
People must make up their own minds.
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>> I still remember the wonderful Matt cartoon on passive smoking. The blindfolded condemned man is
>> smoking his last cigarette. The entire firing squad has dropped dead in a heap of
>> men and rifles.
>>
>> Would that these griping ninnies with their dodgy theories and dubious weblinks would do likewise.
>> What a load of cobblers they do talk. Unbearable.
I agree the Mat cartoon is funny but .........
My mother's brother died at 60 as a result of his devotion to tobacco. His addiction and, barring the grief of his relatives, his problem.
His widow, a formative character in mine and more particularly my sisters childhood, now has the big C herself. OK, other things could be in play, but it's difficult to dismiss nigh on a quarter century of passively smoking his Players and St Bruno as a contributory factor.
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>> the big C herself.
Timely reminder Br, i watched my brother die slowly from the ill effects of smoking, a gruesome thing and a horrible way to live his last few years.
His wonderful wife (smoker too) who nursed him past the operations and recovery (never fully) stages died suddenly of heart failure about 3 years before he died.
A fly on the wall camera team would have put anyone with an ounce of common sense off smoking.
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>> His widow, a formative character in mine and more particularly my sisters childhood, now has
>> the big C herself. OK, other things could be in play, but it's difficult to
>> dismiss nigh on a quarter century of passively smoking his Players and St Bruno as
>> a contributory factor.
Alas, a not uncommon tale from that and previous generations.
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>> Alas, a not uncommon tale from that and previous generations.
Indeed Zero, and not unknown today or among my own late nearest and dearest.
The ill effects of smoking have been fairly well known for some time. Nevertheless a lot of people still have the habit, the addiction. Many are still taking it up (although not so many these days, compared to my own childhood in the forties when all adults chain-smoked, and very nasty it seemed to a clean-lunged nipper). Barmy.
But it isn't illegal or especially contemptible to be barmy in that or many other ways. It's a personal choice. In a perfect world, or even a much better one, everyone would be psychically healthy and rational and would not feel the need for drugs.
When will this world be with us? Don't hold your breath, if that doesn't seem a tasteless remark in the context. Meanwhile poor weak humans will self-medicate or self-poison in the ways that seem appropriate to them.
I'm not interested though in propaganda targeted at children. Scare stories are wasted on someone my age with my history. I don't mind people being vehement about this but point it at someone else. Someone who can still be saved.
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AC, you are badly wrong on this one. Here's another angle. I believe that many people like to participate in what are called 'water sports' (in the sexual sense of the word). While the fluid involved is completely sterile and therefore harmless, I'm sure you'd no more like to be subjected to it than I would. Smoke, to a non-smoker, smells just as vile and is far more dangerous to the passive party.
Yes, I am biased - I see people with mouth and lung cancer as part of my job. Holding a bottle with a quarter of someone's face, eye included, because of tobacco-induced cancer (okay, so actually tobacco chewing in this case so my argument doesn't quite hold) does rather bring home the danger. When that's the best option you know it's horrendous. In the same way as I object strongly to those x-ray based airport scanners, I don't see why anyone should subject me to that risk.
Should it be completely banned? No, of course not, not in any civilised society. Is the partial ban far better for the majority now than previously. Absolutely.
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Wow, I have to say I am struggling the accept the link between littering, smoking and ? watersports?
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11 out of 10 for effort though
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"While the fluid involved is completely sterile and therefore harmless, I'm sure you'd no more like to be subjected to it than I would."
Hey, don't knock it till you've tried it.
And don't try it unless you have a tiled floor.
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Phew. Thank God for a couple of civilised posts after the children's propaganda.
These people are round the bend.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 26 Oct 10 at 01:01
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>> These people are round the bend.
>>
Or is it you that is?
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, AC, people have tried rational arguements with you, but all you've done is treat them as if they are children by ridiculing them...
I can't see any difference between dropping a butt and dropping a sweet wrapper, both are littering... Take it home with you - or is that just too much hassle?!
Last edited by: hobby on Tue 26 Oct 10 at 11:35
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>> I can't see any difference between dropping a butt and dropping a sweet wrapper, both are littering... Take it home with you
No, there isn't much difference. A sweet wrapper won't set the bin on fire though, so it's easier to keep about you until you find a bin. I imagine you mean small wrappers from individual sweets.
You wouldn't drop these things in someone's house, obviously. But dropping them in the gutter or down a drain is a reasonable option, or it seems so to me. Small bits of rubbish to join all the others and be swept or washed away when the streets are cleaned, as they sometimes are.
The suggestion that I may be round the bend doesn't faze me in the least. After all, I have been struggling these many years with tobacco addiction. How could I possibly be really sane, as most people see it?
But there are different ways of being round the bend.
Some of you guys - not just Hobbyhorse and the Wicked Wolf but others too - remind me of nothing more than mama grizzlies in the Sarah Palin mode: aggressive, self-righteous, none too bright and lacking all sense of proportion. I bet you all reek of aftershave. I'd be afraid to go in your houses in case I dropped a flake of dandruff and got lynched. Tchah!
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AC, why are you so black and white on this when you are normally the first to argue for shades of grey? And aggressive with it.
It's not any more idiotic to dislike smoke than it is to wish to partake in smoking. In fact, I'd argue that it is less stupid, as at least disliking smoking is not doing anyone any harm (assuming you don't get all militant about it and try and ban it completely).
(Oh, and I realise that my previous argument was ridiculous by the way. My point was that while it would be completely disgusting, it would at least be [technically, from a medical harm point of view] harmless).
Last edited by: Statistical Outlier on Tue 26 Oct 10 at 15:20
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>> It's not any more idiotic to dislike smoke than it is to wish to partake in smoking.
I couldn't agree more SO. At no point have I said it is unreasonable to dislike cigarette smoke. When I was a child and when I have managed to be off snout by some expedient - snuff, chewing gum, some brain drug that sort of works for a month or so - I always found it unpleasant.
As an adult though I've never thought it appropriate to make a fuss about that sort of thing. Polite people don't. Unfortunately though courtesy has been in decline along with morality, and self-righteous twits have been making themselves obnoxious about it in public for many years.
It could be said of course that such people have helped reduce the incidence of smoking and thus helped save lives in the long run. But that doesn't mean I have to like the carphounds. By analogy, the nation needs HMRC but many individuals feel a visceral horror and dislike when they have to deal with its officials and give them money.
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There is nothing self righteous about wishing to keep our country free of litter, it just makes it a nicer place to live, GB got it very right in his post, and people like you with your attitude to litter (which is what a butt is, regardless of how long it takes to disappear) which cause the mess we see every day. Also I've not complained about people who smoke, purely about how they get rid of the results of their habit... obviously unlike you I feel that they should get rid of it in a way which does not harm others, or make a mess of the country we live in.
And your resort to using crude nicknames (again!) in an effort to divert the spotlight away from you proves my point and does you no favours at all.
You know you are doing wrong, but are just too pig-headed to admit to it.
(And I'll bet that you don't treat your house in the same way as you do public spaces)
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Sorry hobby, if you think my nickname for you is crude. I think of it as affectionate. But of course I will stop doing it if it offends you.
As for the rest of what you say.... no, on reflection I won't repeat myself. It will only get your thoroughly male underwear in a twist.
I must say I am starting to find this subject, and the circling and pussyfooting around it necessitates, a bit arduous.
'Why do you bother?' people with some brains and my interests at heart often ask me.
I suppose I think of myself, when in this mode here, as a sort of teacher. Any professional will tell you it's uphill work. And of course there's always that 20 per cent of total dunderheads in the class. Then again perhaps one or two of them even know something you don't. It often happens in schools.
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One of affection! Ok, it just seems to be used by you whenever we disagree... but I'll bear that in mind in future! ;-)
Re the "teacher" bit, I find it interesting that you are "teaching" us all how to litter! If we care to go back to the OP, before we lose track of it, the question was whether it was acceptable to throw butt ends out of the window of a vehicle - you (and several others) obviously think it is, ignoring the safety implications for other road users as well as the littering element, I (and several others) feel it isn't, as does the law of the land...
Other than adding that if you decide its acceptable to carry on doing it and not use your ash tray can we please ask that you check in your mirror before doing it just to ensure its safe for other road users... Iis there really any more to say?
Last edited by: hobby on Wed 27 Oct 10 at 09:32
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There is a certain impression that "laws are for little people" about the stance adopted. I don't personally care little whether people smoke or not- but from my bike perch I occasionally glance towards the roadside at traffic lights for instance and the mass of mashed up dog ends makes me want to puke. Nothing cool/left wing/bohemian/hip about that pile of litter - same goes for the chewing gum encrusted pavements (which in North Wales' towns seem worse than anywhere for some reason). i don't smoke, then again I don't litter and I collect my dog's pooh diligently. I wince when I see a lit fag end chucked out of a car window because it offends my sensibilities and I form an opinion about that driver - can't help it, its my social programming, and regardless of what AC says and thinks it doesn't make me a "ninny".
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"I collect my dog's pooh"
Strange hobby...
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You should see the display cabinet.
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I have some genuine 1970s white examples !
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...You should see the display cabinet....
You can't see a lot - the windows are steamed up.
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>> You should see the display cabinet.
Short people need to stand on a stool though.
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>> you are "teaching" us all how to litter!
No hobby. I'm trying to persuade people not to faff about utter trivia and not to take advantage of the prevailing social climate to be offensive to poor suffering addicts.
>> 'laws are for little people'
And what, pray, have 'laws' got to do with this subject PU? You are straying dangerously close to the position (often seen here) that people who stray over speed limits, overstay in parking places or park for a moment on yellow lines are 'breaking the law'. It's petty and it brings the real law, the one that addresses serious issues, into disrepute.
As I said, I am getting quite bored with this argument. There's none so blind as them wot will not see, innit?
Evidently my attitudes, as expressed here, strike many as arrogant, thuggish, reactionary and supercilious. They aren't, but so be it: I won't lose any sleep over it.
The real problem is that I am older than most here, from a different era so to speak, as well as being rational and knowing what I am talking about. Enough to make anyone an outcast.
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I regretted typing that after I thought about - bearing in mind some of the data on my MCN app ! and withdraw it.
You are older than most of us no doubt might be a generational thing, as long as you don't assume that you're always right about things though ! - that's different :-)
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>> regretted typing that after I thought about it
Nothing to regret really PU. It is partly an age thing, but lots of people my age have already knuckled under and suck up to the prevailing lot in a pathetic way.
I would remind you once again that I have nothing but sympathy for those who find smoking disgusting (except when they go on at me about it that is). Because it is, of course, a bit disgusting. Of course it isn't the only thing we do that might cause disgust in others.
I am very often right PU, but only the clinically insane imagine that they always are.
:o}
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>> Evidently my attitudes, as expressed here, strike many as arrogant, thuggish, reactionary and supercilious. They
>> aren't, but so be it: I won't lose any sleep over it.
>>
Oh, really?
You want Ninnying? Help is available. Book an appointment with your Active Lifestyle Advisor at your Doctor's surgery.
:-)
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>> The real problem is that I am older than most here, from a different era
>> so to speak, as well as being rational and knowing what I am talking about.
>> Enough to make anyone an outcast.
Ah senility, the first sanctuary of our elders. Excellent smoke screen to hide behind and from which to shoot barbed arrows.
I shall use it myself one day when I become slightly smellier.
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Smoke Zero ??? Where ?? oh I see - sorry. :-)
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you know I kind of picture AC as a male version of Miss Havisham, his room unchanged in 50 years, gathering gloom and dust, the candles flickering as he throws heady insults at the children around him, and goads them into mutual b itchiness.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 27 Oct 10 at 17:10
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>> a male version of Miss Havisham, his room unchanged in 50 years, gathering gloom and dust, the candles flickering as he throws heady insults at the children around him, and goads them into mutual b itchiness.
You horrid little ingrate you... and here was I thinking you were, er, less of a ninny than some (not people who don't smoke and simply don't like smoking or its litter, but those who faff shrilly about these things). It's true though that I hate tidying up and my workspace becomes, and remains, a fairly serious tip.
Now here you are asking for it Zeddo. I don't feel you can be blamed really though. Nothing you can do about those West Ham genes. A bit like the scorpion in the fable getting a lift across the river on a jackal's back.
'Why did you sting me, you total idiot? Now we will both drown, glug glug.'
'It's my nature, glug glug.'
Heh heh. As if the nippers I know needed any goading to act like savages. It's their nature.
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NURSE, NURSE, He's out of bed again!!!
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I think you should all stop picking on him and leave him alone:)
Pat
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>> stop picking on him and leave him alone:)
I hope they won't Pat. I quite enjoy a bit of kickboxing with nine or ten opponents. Brings out the Jackie Chan in me.
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Pat, I see the smiley you've put in so take what you say in the spirit it's intended and in all honesty I think he's more than capable of defending his corner and I imagine he will readily concede that you don't dish it out if you can't take some incoming back.....and he's dished some out! Again, a PC smiley here for good measure :-)
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I know that kb, but it does his equilibrium good to have a 'young' lady defending him!
Pat
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>> lady defending him!
And don't think I don't appreciate it m'dear...
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>> to take advantage of the prevailing social climate to be offensive to poor suffering addicts.
Just to put the record straight, I've not criticised your smoking (as far as I know you don't do it near me), thats your choice, but I don't regard having to see butt ends all over the place as trivia... Just as mentioned earlier about chewing gum all over pavements... Both are eyesores and I regard them the same way... created by lazy people who don't give a toss about their environment... I don't expect to see everywhere spick and span, that would be stupid, but surely its not too much to expect people to tidy up after themselves - its not hard to find a bin or use an ashtray, surely... As I asked before, do you drop the butts on the floor of your house?
>> There's none so blind
>> as them wot will not see, innit?
Mmmm, pot and kettle, methinks!
>> The real problem is that I am older than most here,
From what I remember from previous posts there are many of us about the same age... including you!
Last edited by: hobby on Wed 27 Oct 10 at 19:42
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>> there are many of us about the same age... including you!
Well, the rest of you ought to be doing a bit better by now, eh? Eh? EH?
(Picks up false teeth from floor and adopts combative stance. Falls over).
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:-)
We are! Uses zimmer to make fast(ish) exit... ;-)
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Judging by the standard of behaviour and the complete lack of manners and common decency one encounters from every level of apparent wealth on a daily basis i seriously doubt there's a chance in hell of changing the way many people view their own rubbish disposal...they'll only change when total individual surveillance is established and they get automated punishments.
To many it's only when they get hit in the pocket that they take any notice, few gave a damn as the country lurched headlong into it's financial disaster over the last few decades, now it's hitting them in the pocket they're shouting from the rooftops and blaming everyone else whilst ignoring their own possibly undeserved advances or rewards.
The dog end arguments here only illustrate how many deem their own litter dropping to be quite acceptable, we've ended up with the country we as a nation deserve, it's become a hell hole it might as well look like it.
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SWMBO is a JP and just this week fined more than a few people for litter dropping and the like. Good on her I say.
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>> Judging by the standard of behaviour and the complete lack of manners and common decency
>> one encounters from every level of apparent wealth on a daily basis i seriously doubt
>> there's a chance in hell of changing the way many people view their own rubbish
>> disposal...they'll only change when total individual surveillance is established and they get automated punishments.
Moral standards will gradually/eventually improve, but it's likely to take several decades.
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>> Moral standards will gradually/eventually improve, but it's likely to take several decades.
What makes you think so gastropod? As society gets more protective and mimsy about everyone's human rights, even those of the sinister toerag, my strong impression is that moral standards are in fairly steep decline.
Not, of course, that moral standards have anything at all to do with dropping cigarette ends. Morality is about real issues that have some substantive importance, not the sort of trivia that obsess houseproud old women.
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"my strong impression is that moral standards are in fairly steep decline".
That implies that there are such things as absolute moral standards against which you could measure decline. I personally doubt whether there are such things and that all ages are equally moral or immoral. It's just our idea of morality that keeps changing
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>> It's just our idea of morality that keeps changing
Good point CGN. Absolute unchanging standards don't really exist except in the minds of crazed religious wonks.
But if you think about it it's fairly clear that some societies have better standards of morality than others, and that this can change over time. It's all greatly complicated by human hypocrisy and the confusions that exist (even here in the smoke-free C4P pub) between morality and comportment or behaviour.
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"it's fairly clear that some societies have better standards of morality than others".
Possibly but that would still mean that there would have to be absolutes of right and wrong and I'm not sure there are.
I would allow that were there to be such absolute wrongs discarding of cigarette butts is unlikely to figure highly on the list
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>> I would allow that were there to be such absolute wrongs discarding of cigarette butts
>> is unlikely to figure highly on the list
>>
singapore-the-fine-city.blogspot.com/2009/04/littering-in-public.html
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>> >> Moral standards will gradually/eventually improve, but it's likely to take several decades.
>>
>> What makes you think so gastropod? As society gets more protective and mimsy about everyone's
>> human rights, even those of the sinister toerag, my strong impression is that moral standards
>> are in fairly steep decline.
I didn't say moral standards wouldn't fall even further before they got better, just that they'll eventually improve.
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I once walked along the beach in Benidorm. You could barely see the sand for cigarette ends.
OK, an exaggeration, but making sandcastles without including a few was nigh on impossible.
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They make good cannons on your sandcastle.
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Yes, litter-covered beaches are pretty nasty. I can't think of Weston-Super-Mare without shuddering at the memory.
Streets and roads are another matter though. They are dirty and polluted by definition even when they look clean, which in the natural course of events they seldom do. That is why people and machines are detailed to sweep and wash them. In parts of Paris they run water down the street or pavement several times a week. It works.
As for fish being polluted with tobacco carcinogens... cobblers.
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>> As for fish being polluted with tobacco carcinogens... cobblers.
>>
There are carcinogens in virtually every kind of smoke, and salmonella in fish and eggs, yet I don't see a call for a worldwide ban on kedgeree! ;-)
Last edited by: Harleyman on Sun 24 Oct 10 at 13:03
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I like my Kippers smoked...
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Ah, that will be a Herring then.
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>> I wouldn't have an issue with it were it not for the fact that none
>> of the revenue raised seems to go towards providing litter bins.
I don't understand the logic that money from fines should be spent on something to do with offence committed.
The fine is a punishment for committing the offence, and hopefully a deterrent towards further transgressions.
It becomes public money to be spent, with the appropriate oversight, where it is most needed.
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Quite right, SS. AC's argument is no better: that because there are arguably worse environmental pollutants than cigarette ends, dropping cigarette ends is OK. Murder is a worse crime than armed robbery; is armed robbery therefore acceptable?
Breaking up physically is not the same as degrading chemically. Ocean life is suffering hugely because plastic waste dumped at sea never degrades, but just breaks into smaller and smaller pieces and is ingested by smaller and smaller organisms, eventually damaging the food chain from the bottom up. The same can happen on land.
I don't drop sweet wrappers - the detritus of my nearest-equivalent self-harming habit - in the street, so why can't smokers take the same care?
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A very loud raspberry to AC ! :-)
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Why pick on smokers every time? Councils spend considerable sums of money cleaning chewing gum off the streets, yet I don't see any condemnation on here of that particular mess; would it be because it's more difficult to be self-righteous about it? ;-)
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Well in my post I criticised people who carelessly (or deliberately) throw chip paper, cigarettes and chewing gum on the ground. I have to admit I absolutely fail to see the attraction in chewing gum and hate seeing and stepping in the mess people manage to make with it. I once visited the Wrigleys factory in Chicago though, fascinating place.
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Sorry Bagpuss I missed that.
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Just in case people have the wrong idea, I never drop genuine litter (chip papers, cigarette packets, etc.) but hang onto it until I find a litter bin. Indeed the driver's door pocket of my car is often full of waste paper. Nor would I empty a whole car ashtray onto the road. When during attempts to give up smoking I used nicotine and ordinary chewing gum, I wrapped the discarded stuff in a bit of paper - its own wrapper perhaps - and put it in a bin. Chewing gum on pavements is a genuine, long-lasting eyesore and utterly disgusting. It doesn't just disappear like cigarette ends.
I see that my slightly intemperate last post has reached one or two though.
Heh heh! Snout-phobics on the defensive at last!
'Murder is a worse crime than robbery' indeed! (contemptuous snort)
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Incorrigible Armel!
Go on, have a fag... you may be hit by a bus tomorrow!
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It's not all that long ago since someone was given a fixed penalty fine for dropping a £10 note...:-)
That was in spite of the fact he pointed out he wouldn't do such a thing deliberately....
PS
Just found the story:
tinyurl.com/2357oe2
tinyurl.com/mabuyo
Last edited by: Stuartli on Sat 23 Oct 10 at 22:32
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GB. You are wasting your breath me ol' mate, but I am with you til the last.
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I remember working for an American company on a construction project in Scotland. One of the yanks said ''why is it everybody over here throws rubbish out of their car window''. I was embarrassed.
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A good few years ago, I was following a car when it's driver emptied the ashtray out of window. At the next traffic lights I (very unwisely) got out of my car, grabbing some assorted detritus from the door pocket which I then threw through the other driver's window. He, obviously, protested so I just said something like "well don't chuck your crap where it's not wanted then." He was so non-plussed that he just shut up and moved off when the lights turned green. I certainly wouldn't so something as foolish and risky these days, but it didn't half make me feel better!
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Fag ends, chewing gum, sweet papers, crisp bags, half eaten donner kebabs and dog crap are rubbish I detest. Horse crap is not much better although it can be used for something useful.
I am against fining the perpetrators: I suggest a suitable punishment is spending two weeks 9am to 5 pm cleaning the streets of the rubbish they leave behind... And by two weeks I mean unpaid...and with immediate effect. Sod their holidays and work ..
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Half eaten curry and chinese is ok then?
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Fag ends, chewing gum, sweet papers, crisp bags, half eaten donner kebabs and dog crap are rubbish I detest. Horse crap is not much better although it can be used for something useful.
I am against fining the perpetrators: I suggest a suitable punishment is spending two weeks 9am to 5 pm cleaning the streets of the rubbish they leave behind... And by two weeks I mean unpaid...and with immediate effect. Sod their holidays and work
Spot On.
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>> When during attempts to give up smoking
>> I used nicotine and ordinary chewing gum,
Excuse the deviation from the topic., but I feel that Armel Coussine needs help. I recommend hypotherapy. I was a confirmed addict of many years standing ~ I got to the point where I used to buy 10x20 every Friday, and then a packet of 20 most days during the week ~ and hypnotherapy worked for me.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Tue 26 Oct 10 at 15:21
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Well done L'es, and I really do mean that.
You obviously wanted to give up, that's why you were willing to try.
The thing most ex and non smokers don't seem to realise, is that there are still some of us about who simply don't want to give up.
We get constantly offered advice on how to do it, we get lectured on our health and generally treated like lepers to abuse at will.
We are rebels, we can and will, take all you hand out to us, and we'll simply light another cigarette and enjoy it.
Pat
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Pat, please don't take anything I've said as meaning I think you should have to give up. I don't. You're welcome to smoke if you chose (not that it's anything to do with me anyway), your taxes on fags will pay for your additional healthcare needs, and it's not like many of us don't do stuff that is risky.
Point is, that's your choice, thankfully one of the choices you're still allowed to make as more and more freedoms are curtailed for our 'safety'. But, as a non-smoker, it's fantastic that smoke is no longer forced upon me if I want to go to the pub.
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It was aimed at people in general SO, not you specifically:)
It's amazing that even though most smokers are happy to play by the new rules, we now get more abuse and rudeness thrown at us than ever before.
I find myself apologising if a non smoker visits my home, and then hating myself for doing so.
It is simply the way people feel it's OK to be downright rude and make personal remarks to smokers that bring about the rebel in us ( well, it never took much to bring out the rebel in me anyway!)
I hate litter, and driving through towns in the early hours, seeing discarded foods wrappers and beer cans etc. saddens me. What is far worse though IMHO, is the fly tipping ruining our countryside.
Fridges, freezers, beds, sofa's all tipped on the side of the road to spoil the landscape and be a threat to nature....don't get me started.
Well, since I'm on my soapbox now:)
On holiday we visited the Eden Project, Lost Gardens of Heligan and Wheal Martin at St Austell. Both have many outdoor attractions and smoking was allowed in all outdoor areas.
Where were the ashtrays? There wasn't any, and I ended up with a pocket full of fag ends after jumping up and down frantically on the nipped out lit end because it had been so dry.
Some of us do try, and by the lack of fag ends on the floor I certainly wasn't the only one, but ashtrays or bins would have helped.
Pat
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>> ashtrays or bins would have helped.
Heh heh. That would make it too easy Pat. The carphounds want you to suffer. They want you not to have a snout when you feel like it thus polluting the air all around you for thousands of miles, wilting mature oak trees and bringing dead birds and choked aircraft showering down like confetti.
I must say I wouldn't dream of apologising for a slightly smoky gaff. If they don't like it they know where they can go, probably.
However it has become necessary in recent years (and I did it even before that) to ask people if they mind before smoking in their houses. That is common courtesy. Lots of non-smokers genuinely don't mind. Those that do say so and one can go out on the balcony or something. It's not the end of the world.
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ashtrays or bins would have helped.
What's wrong with taking your own?
After all dog owners who are responsible take little plastic bags for dog crap. So why not take a used cigarette packet ?
Honestly, modern peeps have no initiative! :-)
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The answer is very simple.
Filter ciggies should be banned. Tobaco, and paper bio degrade, so problem resolved.
Always enjoyed a Players navy cut myself.
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...Always enjoyed a Players navy cut myself...
Capstan Full Strength - real coffin nails.
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Quote
Capstan is a brand of unfiltered British cigarettes made by Imperial Tobacco originally launched by W. D. & H. O. Wills in 1894. The brand became less popular when the health effects of tobacco became more widely known, few shops now sell them.
In 1971 the UK government published a table of the tar and nicotine contents of cigarettes available in the UK market, and Capstan Full Strength contained, by some margin, the highest tar and nicotine contents of any brand.
End quote.
Made them an instant hit with the hard youth of the day. I smoked them for about 6 days.
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...I smoked them for about 6 days...
I think I tried the odd one.
Always a filter-tipped king size man meself, they were far more upmarket.
Plain cigarettes were rather 'blue collar'.
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Snob
Rollups were blue collar.
AT school I Started on
Sovereign or No10's, both disgusting cheap tat with plenty of stalk and floor sweepings
Players No 6
The started to experiment with Players Navy Cut, and State Express 555's
then stuck with 30 Marlboros a day for 25 years. Till I gave up 6 years a go.
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...Snob...
Correct.
Player's No6 and No10 was where I started, before moving on to Rothmans, Dunhill, State Express, John Player Blue if I was short of money, and More when Kojak was on the telly.
The brand I stuck with for longest was Marlboro'.
Tried cigars and a pipe before packing the lot in about three years ago.
Don't miss the cigarettes, but could still do a pipe, late in the afternoon at home with time to enjoy it.
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I tried some "odd" ones once - but didn't inhale honest.
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>> Plain cigarettes were rather 'blue collar'.
When was that then iffy? Sounds like the seventies to me.
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Full Strength is a bit of a giveaway really !
I have a softer spot for roll-up smokers, anything worse than seeing a discarded filter tip with lipstick on it Yukkity Yuk
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>> Full Strength is a bit of a giveaway really !
>>
>> anything worse than seeing a discarded filter
>> tip with lipstick on it
Yes a discarded rollup with lipstick on it.
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>> Yes a discarded rollup with lipstick on it.
Obviously never tried a 1959 Notting Hill carrot coated all over in Jamaican saliva to make it burn regularly, Z...
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>> The answer is very simple.
>> Filter ciggies should be banned. Tobaco, and paper bio degrade, so problem resolved.
>> Always enjoyed a Players navy cut myself.
Zeddo, you are cool.
I worked in the tobacco industry in the sixties, in a misguided attempt at bog standard intellectually blinkered respectability. Learned a lot about tobacco and various sorts of industry and Northern Ireland and the City (although nothing very juicy in the last case).
Talking to modern anti-smoking ninnies is like being Arnold Schwartzenegger armed to the teeth and on crystal meth walking through a nursery full of squalling snotty brats. The effort it takes to be gentle is almost superhuman.
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"Filter ciggies should be banned"
and go back to proper ciggies like Park Drive and Woodbines (obviously for the working class, poor and beginners!!) then progress to Players and Senior Service and then of course, (in your dotage?!!) a pipe full of St Bruno.
Think a pipe would suit Pat!!
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Remember Number 6 ? Two drags and you were done. Wee thin things. Just as well really. They were horrible ! "Ten numbies and a box of matches please mister..."
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No 10s were smaller and thinner than No6's and cheaper. And worse.
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I think Number 10s were even worse Humph - one drag and you were done. Made even worse by the fact that in those days it was usual to "crash the ash" (offer ciggies to people in a group) So if you had a packet of Players everyone else smoked them and you got Number 10s back!!! Not a good deal.
Then there was always the tight bloke who, when it was his turn to crash the ash, always brought out a packet and said "Oh sorry, only got one left". Needless to say, in another pocket he would have a full pack of twenty! usually the same bloke who, when it was his round at the pub suddenly decided it was time he got off home! Happy days!!
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>>brought out a packet and said "Oh sorry, only got one left".
I used to keep a packet of that for the well-known scroungers.
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>> I used to keep a packet of that for the well-known scroungers.
Brinsley displayed his butt. 'That is all that I have,' he said gravely.
Flann O'Brien, At Swim-Two-Birds
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>and go back to proper ciggies like Park Drive..
My mate's dad smoked Park Drive. Are they still sold?
One of the old-dears at dad's golf club smoked ciggies with a cork tip. Can't remember what they were called.
Kevin...
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"My mate's dad smoked Park Drive. Are they still sold?"
Don't know - switched to Players when I was 12! ;-)
www.mysmokingshop.co.uk/index2.php?mod=category&man=119&cat=79
"ciggies with a cork tip"
Craven A?
www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/broughttolife/objects/display.aspx?id=6874
Last edited by: PhilW on Tue 26 Oct 10 at 23:38
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>Craven A?
This was in the 70's so I doubt it was Craven A, unless she'd hoarded a supply from 1950.
Kevin...
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My dad smoked Players in the 70s.... and died aged 43 in 1980. I was about 9. He obviously smoked for a while and it was asthma related. But he only got asthma aged about 30.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 27 Oct 10 at 00:00
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Craven A were re-introduced in the 1970's/80's, as a king size brand.
Horrible things, much preferred Benson & Hedges.
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Health and Safety issue, I'm afraid
Cigarette packets are made from paper and cardboard and will catch on fire:)
Pat
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I've never smoked myself and have become more and more anti smoking the older I have become so my thoughts on our inflamatory correspondent's attitude are not for publication but I seem to remember, back in the fifties, there was an 'upmarket' brand of cigarette (an oxymoron if ever there was one) that was oval in cross section and rather more expensive than the run of the mill brands. Can anybody come up with the name?
Ah, just before I pushed the button I've remembered. It was 'Passing Cloud/s'. Wasn't it?
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I thnk it was three castles.
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>> 'Passing Cloud/s'. Wasn't it?
No. It wasn't Three Castles either.
Turkish cigarettes under the brand name Abdullah - they came in various sizes or numbers, the cheapest being called 'Salisbury' - were oval in cross-section and cork (not filter) tipped: a thin layer of cork at one end of the cigarette, for ornament really.
My thoughts on everyone are for publication scousehonda, so yah boo sucks.
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Thanks escargot for the thought, but I'm afraid I am a particularly poor and resistant subject for hypnosis.
I think too much. 'Such men are dangerous.' I am beyond, on this matter, anyone's help but my own.
Of course I may need help in other ways. If anyone wants to slip me a large sum of money I will accept it willingly.
:o}
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The carbon particles which come out of the exhaust pipes of diesel cars, especially when the throttle is floored, is a form of littering.
;-)
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Not to mention the smaller ones out of petrol cars...
Then there's the stuff out of chimneys... nuclear power station waste... all the rubbish from our MPs mouths... and, best of all, the crap from the EU!
:-)
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A telling piece of archive television from 1965 an interview with Douglas Bader about the Battle of Britain - halfway through the studio interview, he paused to fire up a pipe - you wouldn't see that these days...mind you bet he didn't have a disabled sticker on his Spitfire either !
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Good point, PU. Come to think of it, when did you last see anyone with a pipe? Funny thing is (warning: moderate expression of disgust at smoking follows) I never found the smell of pipe smoke as objectionable as cigarettes. Is there an underground pipe-smoking subculture somewhere, the way some people use traditional shaving methods as a kind of hobby?
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I never came across a criminal (alleged or otherwise) who was a pipe smoker either.....always struck me as odd.
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>> I never
>> found the smell of pipe smoke as objectionable as cigarettes.
Nor me, though Dad switched from ciggies (Senior Service) to cigars before he stopped altogether... now they are really bad, though he did smoke less of them!
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I think this link puts things into perspective.
www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/news.php?id=831796
Pat
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"lorry-load of waste dumped " -ah, so it is lorry drivers to blame for all the rubbish/litter is it Pat??!! ;-)
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I bet it was a white transit pick up with some left over tarmac on the deck!
Pat
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>> A telling piece of archive television from 1965 an interview with Douglas Bader about the
>> Battle of Britain - halfway through the studio interview, he paused to fire up a
>> pipe - you wouldn't see that these days
You didn't see Douglas Bader through the cloud of smoke either.
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Neither did the Germans !
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On reflection, doesn't it say something that there has been 159 replies to the problem of throwing a cigarette end out of the window, but not one condemning the blatant dumping of rubbish in the countryside.
I rest my case that crticism of smokers is now just 'shabby chic'.
Pat
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Sorry Pat - we didn't realize that expressing disapproval for one antisocial behaviour required us to list all the others we disapprove of too. Hang on while I find a cutting from your local paper about someone drowning kittens in a sack, which will show that you approve of that.
};---)
Or, as I suggested to AC earlier - not that he agreed with me (or indeed that he ever does) - pointing out that B is more offensive than A does not make A acceptable.
Off now to commit all those acts I've not yet explicitly condemned and so must consider acceptable.
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...Off now to commit all those acts I've not yet explicitly condemned and so must consider acceptable...
Will, you've got a long day ahead of you, and you will need to prioritise.
I'd start with the fun things, nick an expensive car and eat a top-class restaurant meal without paying.
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Sarcasm doesn't become you WdeB, and it's often a defence when something hits home.
A couple of us tried to point out the bigger picture earlier on in the thread, but why stop having a good whinge, when you can get it all into perspective?
I haven't a clue where you live, but if it was in your local area, then can I suggest that you should be complaing too?
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Tue 2 Nov 10 at 07:34
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A friend lives in a rural location about two miles from a couple of junk food outlets on a shopping shed area. He thinks this must be the average time/distance to scoff the junk food as the branded packaging is often dumped from passing cars in the tiny village.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 2 Nov 10 at 08:37
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I remember several years ago stumbling on a webcam of Church Street in the centre of Liverpool. It was a Sunday morning so the place was pretty much deserted and all you could see was what I assume was huge quantities of fast food packaging being blown across the street, like some sort of tumbleweed, a lot of it captured in mid flight by the webcam snapshot. It was fascinating in a strange sort of way (also trying to figure out why anyone would go to the trouble of mounting a webcam there), but very sad. I don't know why people insist on littering their environment in such a way
When I lived in Liverpool in the 80s there were actually a lot of waste bins in the City Centre, installed in an initiative to clean the place up. But they were never emptied...
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"When I lived in Liverpool in the 80s"
Baggy
You'll be delighted to know that Liverpool city centre is now kept in immaculate condition and is well worth a visit, particularly if you haven't been there since the 80's.
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>> You'll be delighted to know that Liverpool city centre is now kept in immaculate condition
>> and is well worth a visit, particularly if you haven't been there since the 80's.
>>
Yep I'll agree with you there, having just visited a few weeks ago... but it doesn't half rain!
To give them their due, Merseyrail were nothing short of excellent in getting us on and off the train using the ramps for our wheelchair... and the Britannia Hotel in Southport was fine for those who thought it may not be... breakfast in particular was excellent...
And Southport itself was a dream for those of us who have to push a wheelchair around... so flat and the people so polite... how refreshing (and windy)!
Well done Merseyside!!
Last edited by: hobby on Tue 2 Nov 10 at 09:57
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>> I rest my case that crticism of smokers is now just 'shabby chic'.
We are not criticising smokers for their smoking habit, all we are doing is criticising them for their littering habit... please don't try to twist that into being having a go at smokers... Dropping a butt is just as bad as a sweet wrapper, fast food wrapper or even all that rubbish dumped on the side of the road... One butt may not take up a lot of space, but looking at the evidence in city centres its not one butt, is it!
All the people who do these things are litterers... and yes, I've done it in the past... but I try not to make a habit of it... some people do as they don't feel that its littering... I and many others don't agree with them!
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Why do the smokers who stub out their cigarette and then dispose of it in a litter bin stub it out on the lid of the bin and ruin the paintwork?
Last edited by: L'escargot on Tue 2 Nov 10 at 10:49
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to prevent causing a fire in the bin and ruining the paintwork.
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People who dump any sort of rubbish whether its a settee or a fag end are bad people grrrrrrrrrrr. :-)
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>> whether its a settee or a fag end are bad people grrrrrrrrrrr. :-)
No. Setting aside viscosity (in the cases of chewing gum and dog excrement), size matters.
It isn't your damn sitting room you ocd twerps, it's the STREET. Perhaps you have the sensibilities of a houseproud old biddy and can't help it.
But you are going to be miserable all your lives because the street will often fall short of your ideals. Serves you right.
This isn't directed at PU or hobby or anyone in particular. It's directed at grown men and women who are so devoid of a sense of proportion that they confuse one thing with another (being unable to distinguish between their own puritanical vertigo about the deadly weed and genuine selfish littering for example) and make a prolonged, screaming fuss about almost literally nothing.
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>> It's directed at grown
>> men and women who are so devoid of a sense of proportion
Like you I assume! They the same thing, proportion has nothing to do with it... all you are doing is trying to justify your actions by pretending in your own mind that they aren't and trying to convince the rest of us with rather futile arguments that dropping something small isn't the same as something large...
However, can we not just agree to differ, AC/DC?! Life's too short!! ;-) :-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 2 Nov 10 at 20:57
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>> can we not just agree to differ, AC/DC?
Unable to understand the concept of proportion, we start to cast doubt on people's sexuality, do we?
You will shortly be hearing from m'learned friends, hobby. I intend to seek exemplary damages.
(shrill, camp titter)
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There's too much intellectualising and self-justification going on here.
Litter is litter and anyone who drops it deserves a firm punch on the nose.
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Subtle....
Wanna borrow a brick, iffy?! ;-)
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Oh deary me... geriatric ocd vigilantes...
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I've got one you can have I was going to chuck it over the garden wall later ! :-0
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AC you're missing the smilies here !
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If size matters, AC, let's do some numbers. There are about 8 million smokers in the UK; if each of them discards ten butts a day, that makes 560 million butts a week. I don't know what a butt weighs but say it's 1g; that's 560 tonnes of litter - or maybe 4,000 of Pat's fly-tipped sofas. Every week!
Please don't resort to the 'OCD' slur to justify your behaviour. It's neither obsessive not compulsive to prefer a clean street to a dirty one. I work in a part of west London that nowadays consists mostly of broken glass and the discarded debris of smoking and fast food. I'm glad to be free to drive away from it because I can imagine finding it quite intimidating after dark. It wasn't always that way; you can still see the layout of the neatly planned postwar houses and the front gardens that now contain only brambles and rusting wrecks. But just as children who aren't valued grow up into sociopaths, so towns can decay into grim places like this, one uncaring act at a time.
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What part of West London is that WDB? I am interested because that was my quarter of the town.
Everyone prefers a relatively clean street to a dirty one. But it seems fatuous to me to make a clamour about dogends when there is so much bigger, and worse, rubbish about. When there's no chewing gum or dog excrement on any pavement and when no one chucks away polystyrene burger boxes or half-eaten kebabs in the street it may at last be justifiable to yip about dogends. Until then, it's fatuous.
I wouldn't dream of trying to justify any of my own behaviour here. I'd have to describe it first and I'd hate to cause a spate of heart attacks and seizures among members of this forum.
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That link really touched a nerve this morning WdeB, didn't it?
They are NOT my sofa's, but if you ventured out into the countryside and saw the amount of rubbish being fly tipped you might just realise how disproportionate you're being. It's not only the public who do it ( if you can call them that) but businesses too.
Some of us care about the wide open spaces, and if it was just 'a sofa' it would be easy for the council to remove. Sadly it never is, it's the result of the last 6 months of a town dwellers back yard with all the undesirable bits that go with it.
I merely noted that there had been a large number of posts about smokers litter, and only one about a far greater problem.
It tells me something that you can go to the trouble of calculating the amount of nub ends needed to equate to a sofa:):)
Now isn't that OCD?
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Tue 2 Nov 10 at 15:20
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>> They are NOT my sofa's, but if you ventured out into the countryside and saw
>> the amount of rubbish being fly tipped you might just realise how disproportionate you're being.
Set up a new thread, Pat, and I'm sure it would get the support from all parties... as i think we all agree we don't like litter, we just can't agree what actually constitutes litter! ;-)
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Damn, that's the second time today I've been accused of being ocd. Maybe it's true!
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Relax, Pat, there's no nerve to touch. I only called them 'your' sofas because you introduced fly-tipping to the debate, and coincidentally you picked an example from my part of the country. My point was that fly-tipping and litter-dropping are the same problem - treating our environment as if it's not worth taking care of. If one is bad, so is the other.
AC, I was referring to the various places beginning with H between Uxbridge and Heathrow. It's handy for the airport, but I always feel a little sorry for my overseas colleagues, who must set off for The London Office with visions of Hyde Park and Trafalgar Square, then find themselves...well, you know.
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Hayes? Its always been a flyspot on the backside of a pig.
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I think that pitch for the Middlesex Tourist Board still needs a little work, Z.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Tue 2 Nov 10 at 16:42
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...Hayes? Its always been a flyspot on the backside of a pig...
And this from a man who presumably lives somewhere near Basingstoke, if his autumn thread is anything to go by.
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Nope. Not even close.
Anyway, near Basingstoke is usually nice. Unlike in.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 2 Nov 10 at 17:51
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I've worked in Basingstoke too. I carped about it at the time but it's quite presentable these days. Besides, it's a hole in some beautiful countryside; the H-place is just a hole.
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>> Nope. Not even close.
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Think aliens.
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Tee hee...
(in response to WdB's Middlesex tourist board sally)
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 2 Nov 10 at 22:50
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Motoring and littering? - WillDeBeest
