I posted a few months ago about the problem of people cutting across a mini roundabout on my route home.
The roundabout has 4 equally spaced exits. When it is not busy, people cut across the middle of the roundabout without causing a problem.
However, when it is busy, I see regular problem because people arrive at opposite exits at the same time, with the intention of turning right. Neither has right of way over the other, and everything would go swimmingly if they both turned around the centre, and therefore each other.
What happens however, if that one person tries to go around the centre and the other tries to cut across it. This invariably leads to the one going around having to stick the brakes on to avoid the one cutting across.
I was at the roundabout in question tonight, a few cars ahead I saw it happen twice in quick succession and then, it happened to me.
In my case it was slightly different, because I had driven across the exit that the one guy was aiming for, before he had gotten there.
Windows were rolled down, and he asked me what I expected him to do. When I pointed out that it was a roundabout and that I expected him to go around it (which he could have easily done, even from the position he was in) he got the hump.
He rolled up him window and just sat there glaring at me, by which time a number of people were beeping their horns. He shrugged his shoulders and I again gestured for him to go around me, at which point he sped off out of the exit that I had emerged from, rather than going around me.
Presumably he had expected that I would relent and leave by the exit that he had come from, so that he could carry on his merry way. Some chance! :)
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Unfortunately some drivers have no idea what a roundabouts purpose is.
here in Stevenage we have plenty of roundabouts, some small some large.
The small roundabouts are a right pain especially if mr BMW driver is opposite me wanting to turn right.
The amount of times people just cross the smaller roundabouts and not drive around them.
Must be so hard use a brain and turn a steering wheel !
Roundabouts were designed to keep smooth flow of traffic which does work up to a point compared to traffic lights.
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I regularly do a U-turn at a mini-roundabout that used to be a T-junction(coming up the upright of the T);as a roundabout,this manoevre is perfectly legal but it does confuse the other traffic.
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Legal or not, JC, I think a U-turn at a mini-roundabout is poor form. You may think you're signalling your intention to perform it, but your signal is indistinguishable from 'I intend to turn right', so it's hardly surprising that other drivers interpret it as such. It is at best confusing and potentially quite dangerous, so I (on behalf of the rest of us) wish you wouldn't do it.
}:---)
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>> Unfortunately some drivers have no idea what a roundabouts purpose is.
I wonder if, to some degree, it is because when the roundabout is quiet, you can cut across without any problem, so people just apply that when it is busy too.
Really the roundabout is just indicating that you should turn offside to offside and give priority to vehicles from the right.
At any other junction where you turn offside to offside, you can turn however you want when there isn't a car coming in the other direction, but if you try to turn nearside when the other guy is turning offside, it isn't going to work out well, except that you might just be able to barge your way through.
So, either they aren't thinking or they know exactly what they are doing and just want to barge their way through. I'd like to think it was the former, but in many cases I expect that it is the latter.
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As before, I think you are wrong SS.
Mini roundabouts are designed to be driven over and often have to be. They are roundabouts only in a sketchy, formal sense.
What that means in practice is that someone turning right has priority over someone going in the other direction straight ahead. Your opinions about the other vehicle's route round or across the roundabout have nothing to do with the case. Your only excuse for getting in his way is that he didn't make his intentions clear by signalling. If he did, you are wrong.
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"Mini roundabouts are designed to be driven over."
Not by all and sundry, I believe.
I can't quote chapter and verse, but I understood that the Highway Code says you should go round the central marking on a mini-roundabout if your vehicle can physically do so. Thus the only vehicles that you would expect to be driven over the central marking are large ones, e.g. buses.
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And I've seen some severe attacks of silliness from doing that; mostly mimsers who piddle about twitching their steering wheels this way and that, and usually concentrating so much on avoiding the painted blob that they hit the kerb instead!
Even worse when you get three of them together, all getting to the island at the same time. This used to happen regularly when I lived in Southwell, Notts, and caused endless confusion and delays as no-one dared to go first.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Mon 18 Oct 10 at 21:11
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I once joined a mini-roundabout to go straight on.
I veered a little to the left so as not to completely straight line it.
The twonk behind me thought I was turning left, barged straight on and narrowly missed a direct hit on my driver's door as I swung to the right before heading for the exit.
Poor driving by him on at least three counts, he was following too close, treating the mini-roundabout as a crossroads, and he made an unsubstantiated assumption about my intentions.
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I'm with SS on this one.
Mini or not, it is a roundabout and the same principles apply.
It may be usual to go straight on when the road is quiet, but how does the visitor to the area know what local practice is?
Pat
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I always drive straight over a mini-roundabout at the approach to our medical practice. It's not even humped ~ just a circle painted on the ground. There's no road to the left, and only the very start of a road (it ends in a field) to the right. Until the side road is built the roundabout might just as well not be there. It's surprising, however, how many people do drive around it.
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In the distant past I seem to remember covering a court case involving an incident on a mini-roundabout.
I have always had it in my mind since that a mini-roundabout is a junction where roundabout rules of access, etc, apply, however it is not necessary to physically drive round it.
It was a long time ago however and my memory can be suspect.
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Why not follow the Highway code?
"Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this. "
i.e you go round them not over them!
See also note on U turns JC2
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As Harleyman says, prats trying to treat these silly spots of paint as real roundabouts often make a frightful dog's dinner of it and get in the damn way like the morons they are. Of course if the roundabout is big enough it's easy to drive round it. But most are too small for that and many are so placed as to make it impossible.
None of that matters of course.
Mini-roundabouts should be treated as junctions in which priority goes to the vehicle that arrives first. They do not absolve the driver of the need to signal and use common sense and courtesy. They never, ever give me the slightest problem because that's how I treat them.
So far I haven't been obstructed by anyone who then claims they don't like my route round the thing.
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>> Mini-roundabouts should be treated as junctions in which priority goes to the vehicle that arrives
>> first. They do not absolve the driver of the need to signal and use common
>> sense and courtesy. They never, ever give me the slightest problem because that's how I
>> treat them.
>>
>> So far I haven't been obstructed by anyone who then claims they don't like my
>> route round the thing.
Don't disagree with you in general AC, and certainly I am not suggesting that you can never cut across them, I do that all the time.
The trouble only arises when two drivers arrive at the same time, at opposite exits, with neither having priority over the over. That is when you need to drive around each other, regardless of the actual white circle.
If you don't drive around each other, offside to offside and somebody instead tries to turn nearside, that is obviously going to lead to somebody blocking somebody, rather than just turning around each other.
The driver that is turning nearside, is basically failing to adapt their driving to the situation (i.e. that there is somebody else turning offside).
As with everything, its fine to ignore "the rules" as much as you like, just as long as you understand when you can and can't do it.
My guess is that you understand perfectly when to ignore the rules, which explain why you don't cause problems for anybody else.
It would be nice to think that when somebody tries to barge their way through, they would take it in good grace when they were the one that ended up getting blocked ;)
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 19 Oct 10 at 15:45
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Highway Code
>>188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.
[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)]
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At double mini-roundabouts treat each roundabout separately and give way to traffic from the right.
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Pat
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>> The trouble only arises when two drivers arrive at the same time, at opposite exits, with neither having priority over the over. That is when you need to drive around each other, regardless of the actual white circle.
You are right of course SS, except in a few cases where it really and genuinely is sensible to pass n/s to n/s and silly and contorted to do the other thing. It does depend on the junction, and commonsense and courtesy should always be applied, especially when two cars get across one another. Much better in those circumstances to laugh than to scowl and gesticulate.
Heard a joke definition of gesticulation on the wireless this evening: 'any movement made by a foreigner.' Snigger.
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Mini-roundabout silliness - diddy1234
