I'd have thought they'd have moved production to India where labour costs are cheaper.
Obviously the world isn't ready for Indian luxury cars!
Having said that people were still making jokes about Skoda 10 years ago - now they're a respectable brand.
Last edited by: Chris S on Mon 18 Oct 10 at 12:30
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>> Obviously the world isn't ready for Indian luxury cars!
If the failing Land Rover and Jaguar produce "luxury cars", but needed a massive "rescue", then perhaps the world doesn't *want* "luxury cars" like these.
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"Luxury cars" that may drive wonderfully, but which are consistently in last place in virutally every reliability table I've ever seen!
The rear of my local landrover dealer has a yard full of nearly-new landrovers which seem to be awaiting repairs.
I know some folk who have had a good one, and some who haven't. And when its a bad one, it seems to be very, very bad.
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>> Having said that people were still making jokes about Skoda 10 years ago - now
>> they're a respectable brand.
I agree they are, but neither are they cheap any more. Over £9k list for an entry level Fabia, through to over £30k list for a top end Superb with a smattering of options. The old Estelle and Favorit were significantly cheaper than an equivalent sized car from the mainstream brands.
Skodas are great cars, I agree, but not really the same thing any more.
Re: JLR, I can't see a future for brands like this, as fuel prices and emissions taxation are only going to go one way.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 18 Oct 10 at 13:05
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Jaguar are half of JLR. Have you seen their JD Power custom satisfaction results in the USA for the past 4 years on the trot?.....in case you can't be bothered i'll tell you, it's 1st place.
The XF has and still is winning numerous awards and they're still selling like hot cakes.
I think there's plenty of people that want luxury cars, look at BMW's sales figures, if you don't trust the Jag figures.
I'd agree LR needs to sort out some of its' reliability issues, but when you check places like HJ, most say they've improved.
The other good news with Tata's money injection is the new models likely. Have you seen the X Type replacement pictures that someone has mocked up? That looks the dog'd danglies....then there's the F Type and XF estate.
Good news in my book. Buy British (or at least somethign made here, by British workmen and subject to British heritage).
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If they dropped a 180PS 2.0 diesel in the XF it would sell loads more too. The majority of 5 series BMW are the 184PS 2.0 diesels.
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>> If they dropped a 180PS 2.0 diesel in the XF it would sell loads more
>> too. The majority of 5 series BMW are the 184PS 2.0 diesels.
>>
Agreed, they have the 2.2 diesel in the Freelander and Ford do a 175bhp and 200bhp version of the same unit.
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JLR are rumoured to be considering putting BMW engines in the X Type replacement... and that would mean a good 2 litre version.... and presumably no reason why that couldn't go in the XF.
Can't imagine why BMW would want to sell such good engines to a rival like that?
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>> The XF has and still is winning numerous awards and they're still selling like hot
>> cakes.
Rightly so. It's a beautiful car, and in my opinion so much more "special" than a 5 series, particularly inside.
>> I think there's plenty of people that want luxury cars, look at BMW's sales figures,
>> if you don't trust the Jag figures.
BMW are a bit of a special case. Yes, they are a luxury brand, but their engines are a generation ahead of the competition and return power outputs and fuel economy that make them a very attractive choice for those concerned about VED or BIK costs. The latest 2.0 diesel has been tested at over 55 mpg in real world use in a 5 series, yet will also punt it to 60 in under 8 seconds. Even the 3.0 petrol engine is known for being capable of well over 30 mpg if driven sensibly.
You have to credit BMW for reading the market so accurately, and leaving the competition standing on the two key issues of the moment - emissions and running costs. A friend is weighing up an A4, 3 series and Lexus IS at the moment for his next company car. The BMW will cost him significantly less in BIK taxation than the other two, despite having the highest list price. The tax advantage actually represents a considerable amount of money over a three year period.
Jaguar simply don't play in this market with the XF's current (and otherwise excellent) engine range. I suspect an XF 2.0d, assuming its engine passed muster, would sell as fast as they could build the things.
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>> I suspect an XF 2.0d, assuming its engine passed muster, would sell as fast as they could build the things.
Maybe they could have a word with Peugeot. They're the ones who helped Ford develop the V6 diesel.
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>> Maybe they could have a word with Peugeot. They're the ones who helped Ford develop
>> the V6 diesel.
>>
They dont have to, as I said above they already use the PSA / Ford 2.2 in the Freelander, Ford now do a 200bhp version of this in the Mondeo which surely would add value to the XF.
Yes BMW engines are leading edge, the 245bhp 3.0d being probably the most impressive diesel with iro 48mpg combined in a 3 Series, though these PSA / Ford diesels are in the same realm at least, the 3.0d S XF offering the same power, torque and economy as a 535d.
Last edited by: Cheddar on Thu 21 Oct 10 at 09:19
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The only XF engine I've experienced is the standard (non S) 3.0d, and it is a peach! All the grunt you could want for in remotely law abiding road driving, and it even sounds good to boot.
My boss has one, and although he's well pleased with it, it doesn't return anything like the official 42 mpg combined economy figure. 35 is more like it in mixed 'real world' driving, with 40 just about achievable on a run, driving like a nun. A similar output 530d can, and does, comfortably return over 40 mpg in real world use.
As a car, I would pick an XF over a 5 series any day of the week, but I find BMWs current engine range to be almost unbelievably impressive. If it weren't for the fact that friends, and reviews on line back up BMWs claims in the real world, I wouldn't actually believe they were true.
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As I said the 330d/530d 3.0d is amazing though the more powerful 335d/535d is less efficient and is matched by the XF "S".
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Yes, the real world economy of the 530d is amazing. With the engine well and truly run in I struggle to get less than 38mpg and I certainly don't drive like a nun. My normal average is around 42mpg and driving with restraint I can get 50mpg.
This, by the way, is the older 240bhp engine, not the newer 245bhp unit. I don't pay for the fuel but I like not having to stop so often to fill up.
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The 320d is just as good at matching its promised fuel economy. Just one of a series of terrific BMW engines.
Even though there are many aspects of the BMW package that I don't like, I do love the engines. :-) I would probably stay with the brand if they bring out a hatchback in the 3-series. Now, I understand from car magazines, that Jaguar plan to do precisely that in their 3-series competitor! If they do, then I'd be seriously interested.
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Reading how the official testing of mpg and CO2 emissions are measured the other week makes you realise it is all a bit pointless. This was in AutoExpress.
They went with a Golf to one of the test places and got around 37mpg. The test company bettered the mpg a bit. But the official VW figure was more like 42mpg. There was also a big difference in CO2 emissions.
What was apparent was why cars have stop-start now and how it greatly improves these figures. There is a section of the test when the car sits 'idling'... so these big diesel engines are turned off and the average mpg and CO2 will therefore go down.
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Tata pumped £5bn to JLR - Chris S
