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For a pensioner who doesn't use their car often I can't see the need for an expensive fancy socket. Why not just plug it into a normal 13 amp socket? (When I was a lad, the round pin wiring was fused to 15amp). An overnight (say, 12hrs) energy flow of 3Kw should be sufficient for plenty of miles for a small mundane EV.
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The manual for the MG5 says 26.5 hours from low battery warning to 100% on granny charger. I get about 5% of range per half hour on the 7kW charger. But you're right, most of the time granny charging would be adequate for me much of the time.
Last edited by: smokie on Sat 6 Dec 25 at 08:47
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>> The manual for the MG5 says 26.5 hours from low battery warning to 100% on
>> granny charger.
I thought for long battery life, it is best not to discharge below 20%, or charge above 80%?
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There probably is something in that - rapid chargers slow down (sometimes stop) over 90% or thereabouts. But there are some cars with fairly stellar mileages (think taxis) which have usually been rapid charged (as opposed to fast!) with no significant battery deterioration - I can't say whether they have been charged to 100% or whatever but it seems likely.
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I had one of the original PodPoints installed for free way before I ever got an electric car, or knew anything about them even!! Turned out it was only a 3.6kW one but it was fine for the first PHEV I had, the Vauxhall Ampera.
However it packed up and I was well out of support. I managed to find someone who I sent the whole box to, and he replaced the innards with a 7kW Viridian state of the art (at the time) EVSE, together with a SONOFF switch and contactor to make it smart(ish). Luckily the freebie install was installed with man-enough cable to support the additional power..
Then when I went full EV I bought a second hand first gen OHME, as I use the Agile tariff and it plays very well with it, and also is sympathetic to the grid as well. I think they were about the fort to be quite so advanced but others are now up there too.
However that's gone wrong so rather than shell out another few hundred I've gone back to the Viridian, which is working fine, and is neatly managed using my Home Assistant.
I think the problem with the OHME is some incompatibility with the MG app but I didn't manage to define it (nor did they) - but it was unreliable in that it sometimes failed to charge.
If I do change again I'll probably look first at another OHME but then the Zappi, which works well alongside solar. The premuim ones probably all have similar finctionality now.
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‘ I thought for long battery life, it is best not to discharge below 20%, or charge above 80%?’
Outdated info now. Don’t leave an EV with either a fully charged or discharged battery for periods of time - several weeks in an airport car park, for example.
If you’re going to use 100% capacity, charge it to 100%.
It’s only the same concept as an ICE car - I only fill the tank when I’ve a long journey that/following day.
A granny charger will work for some low mileage users, but charging losses are greater than using a dedicated 7kW solution. And, because it’s pulling up to 3kW for hours at a time, there’s now a British Standard for sockets used for charging EV’s. BS1362-2 EV.
Last edited by: mcb100 on Sat 6 Dec 25 at 12:23
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Granny charging is usually 10A so 2.3kW.
This will be 85-90% efficient at best, so more like 1.8-2.0 kWh into the battery per hour.
If the house electrics are in good nick there's nothing innately dangerous about granny charging but a wall box able to refill at ~6kWh per hour of charge is way better when you have a 5-6 hour window of cheap leccy (eg Octopus Go).
If you have a big battery eg 70+ kWh the granny charging is.... suboptimal
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For a low mileage user who rarely if ever journeys more than 30 miles from home a granny charger works fine. It may be the best option for those who rent, rather than own, a property and who may have shorter horizons.
Overnight charging for up to 10 hours will put ~20kwh in the battery - enough for ~80 miles. If the battery is always charged to ~80% on a tyical small EV this will be good for ~150 miles.
Assuming a low mileage car owner - simplistically, 4.000 miles pa = a demand for ~1,000 kwh.
At a cheap rate of ~8p kwh = £80 pa. At a full rate of ~250 kwh = £250 pa - an extra £170 pa.
If to get the cheap rate a proper charger needs to be fitted at a cost of ~£1,000 and gives a payback of ~6 years. This may vary (probably worse) depending on the complexity of the installation and whether a premium rate is then charged for daytime electricity use.
On a purely personal level. If I had an EV doing15k pa - a fast charger would be on order. If other half who drives below 3k pa had an EV - probably a 13 amp plug would suffice.
Last edited by: Terry on Sat 6 Dec 25 at 16:15
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Daughter had a BYD plug in hybrid.
Gets cheap leccie midnight to 5am I think.
Uses a granny charger on a timer. Puts enough electricity into her car each night that basically all her mileage is done on leccie.
Also helped by the BYD having a battery that encourages 100% charges rather than only 80%.
Better than spending a grand on a wall charger.
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"Better than spending a grand on a wall charger."
For her perhaps. Very much depends on your requirements
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Exactly.
I was talking about her.
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A wall box enables a smart tariff. A smart tariff enables you to load shift to the cheap period.
On Octopus Intelligent, according to my stats, I have so far moved 55% of my total electricity usage to those cheap hours this month, making my current average unit rate 17.5 pence, and a predicted saving of £71. It’s between 11:30 and 05:30.
This is mostly car charging, but routinely includes any tumble drying, dishwasher and the washing machine too.
Last month I ended up with 19p unit costs and actual saving for the month of £55.
The day rate is about 29p per unit so the savings come from not using it.
I’m sure Smokie will have better figures yet. Anyway, it helps towards the costs of setup I guess.
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"routinely includes any tumble drying, dishwasher and the washing machine too."
Is the wet washing kept until the following night before going in the tumble dryer?
We're not on a smart tariff (don't have a Smart meter) but do occasionally put the washing machine on a delay start to finish at getting up time ready for hanging on the washing line (summer only). We'll go to bed whilst the dishwasher is still doing it's thing, but never use the tumble dryer unless we are home and awake. Are tumble dryer fires fake news? We clean the filter after each use btw.
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Not keen on running any appliance overnight if I'm honest, dishwasher tends to get run in the morning after breakfast.
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Certainly use the washing machine and dishwasher during the cheap-rate periods.
Tumble dryer I don't for the reason mentioned above.
House has comprehensive heat and smoke detectors but prevention is bett......
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>>
>>
>> House has comprehensive heat and smoke detectors but prevention is bett......
>>
As have we along with a fire extinguisher in the kitchen ( got one in the car as well).
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Yeah - with them ^^^^^. for the reasons mentioned.
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I hope you switch off your fridge and freezer every night then 300 fridge fire every year in the UK. Grenfell disaster blamed on a fridge freezer fire.
Sleep tight!
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 7 Dec 25 at 11:04
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>> I hope you switch off your fridge and freezer every night then 300 fridge fire
>> every year in the UK. Grenfell disaster blamed on a fridge freezer fire.
1000 dryer fires per annum
>> Sleep tight!
Turn it off - sleep tighter.
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>>Certainly use the washing machine and dishwasher during the cheap-rate periods.
>>Tumble dryer I don't for the reason mentioned above.
Here in West Australia off peak is 9am to 3pm owing to 40% of houses having roof top solar. In the Eastern States they are going to make electricity free for 3 hours in the afternoon to use up excess solar power.
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>> Are tumble dryer fires fake news? We clean the filter after each use btw.
They certainly happen. My parents knew somebody who had one forty plus years ago. People got out but the house was seriously damaged and the dog died.
Ours is a modern one with a heat pump and condenser and doesn't get that warm. I understand the risk and it's one I'm prepared to take given presence of smoke alarms and means of exit well away from the drier.
Dishwashers are said to be risky because wires flex/wear when the door is opened.
We could make far more use of off peak leccy if we were organised.
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I think it's something the fire brigades are concerned about, as more people are encouraged to switch things to night time use. I wouldn't want to leave washer/dryer on at night.
No advantage anyway as we don't have a smart meter anyway.
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As humans we are not very good at assessing and comparing risk factors. We read about something like a tumble dryer fire which,for well maintained and properly wired appliances are vanishingly rare and dismiss things like walking down the stairs or tripping over pets or driving a car which are all major causes of accidents and injuries but which we just accept.
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>>
>> dismiss things like walking down the stairs or tripping over pets or
>> driving a car which are all major causes of accidents and injuries but which we
>> just accept.
Years ago now but a friend was supposed to have a hot air balloon flight for their 40th.
Didn't happen as the pilot lost his footing on stairs and fell down them breaking his neck.
Made us ensure we had a night light on our windowless landing.
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>> Didn't happen as the pilot lost his footing on stairs and fell down them breaking
>> his neck.
>>
>> Made us ensure we had a night light on our windowless landing.
>>
Why would one go up/down stairs without the light on?
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>> Why would one go up/down stairs without the light on?
Intended destination was the bathroom; missed footing.
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>>
>> Why would one go up/down stairs without the light on?
>>
Seldom use the light for ascending/descending the stairs, and never overnight. Muscle memory copes well (even with the different number of steps either side of the intermediate landing).
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>>
>> Seldom use the light for ascending/descending the stairs, and never overnight. Muscle memory copes well
>> (even with the different number of steps either side of the intermediate landing).
>>
We've got rechargable PIR stair lights which do the job. I've also got one I take into the batyhroom when I have a shower in case of a power cur. My balance is poor and being plunged in to darkness is a bit dodgy.
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How many times has there been a power cut when you have been in the shower?
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>> How many times has there been a power cut when you have been in the
>> shower?
They're more common than you'd like if you're in a more remote part of the UK and/or have a single supply by overhead line.
If I were nervous about my balance I'd regard having back up lighting as a reasonable precaution.
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>> How many times has there been a power cut when you have been in the
>> shower?
>>
Never yet thankfully, but as Brompt says power cuts are not uncommon in rural areas and nobody rings a bell before they happen.
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>> Didn't happen as the pilot lost his footing on stairs and fell down them breaking
>> his neck.
Should have used his balloon.
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>>
>> >> Didn't happen as the pilot lost his footing on stairs and fell down them
>> breaking
>> >> his neck.
>>
>> Should have used his balloon.
>>
...and burnt the house down? ;-)
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>> ...and burnt the house down? ;-)
As he hadnt broken his neck, he could have escaped the fire.
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I think that, with the remains of a hot-air balloon in the hall, that might prove difficult. ;-)
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>> vanishingly rare and dismiss things like walking down the stairs or tripping over pets
Stairs only rank 5th in the accident league. The kitchen is the most dangerous place in the home.
As for tripping over pets, doesent even figure in the statistics.
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>The kitchen is the most dangerous place in the home.
And the living room.
Guy who used to frequent the bar at the Gentleman's Club where dad played snooker went home late after a skinfull at Sunday lunchtime and promptly fell asleep in an armchair. His wife, who had made a now ruined roast and three veg lunch, smacked him up the side of the head with a saucepan and fractured his cheekbone.
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>> As humans we are not very good at assessing and comparing risk factors. We read
>> about something like a tumble dryer fire which,for well maintained and properly wired appliances are
>> vanishingly rare and dismiss things like walking down the stairs or tripping over pets or
>> driving a car which are all major causes of accidents and injuries but which we
>> just accept.
>>
>>
>>
There's mitigation which factors into that. Difficult to avoid walking, easier to avoid using a tumble drier at night.
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Virtually every tumble dryer fire is caused by failure to clean the filter in line with the manufacturers instruction , poor wiring of plug or overloading of the socket. There’s all the mitigation you need.
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>> Virtually every tumble dryer fire is caused by failure to clean the filter in line
>> with the manufacturers instruction ,
The fire fixes that
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>> Virtually every tumble dryer fire is caused by failure to clean the filter in line
>> with the manufacturers instruction , poor wiring of plug or overloading of the socket. There’s
>> all the mitigation you need.
>>
>>
>>
The more people use them at night the more fires they'll be.
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I guess you are a rather risk adverse sort of person. As you get older you realise that you are not going to live forever, even if you give up a glass of wine with your meal, never touch bacon, and never go out fot fear of being stabbed by a random stranger.
I am quite willing to take my chances of death by immolation as a result of drying my underwear in the tumble dryer. I suspect that my end will come about in a somewhat more mundane way.
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I suspect that my end will come
>> about in a somewhat more mundane way.
I was going to send my doggy rouind so you could fall over it, but if you want spectacular i'll have to rethink that.
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>>
>> I was going to send my doggy round so you could fall over it, but
>> if you want spectacular I'll have to rethink that.
>>
He's going to get run over by a bus, walking into town trying to beat it. (but at least he'll have clean undercrackers on, freshly washed, and dried overnight). ;-)
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>> He's going to get run over by a bus, walking into town trying to beat
>> it. (but at least he'll have clean undercrackers on, freshly washed, and dried overnight). ;-)
Ah, trapped in the hall by the burning balloon perhaps?
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>> He's going to get run over by a bus, walking into town trying to beat
>> it. (but at least he'll have clean undercrackers on, freshly washed, and dried overnight). ;-)
It's Zero who is going to get run over by a bus.
He's got previous.
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>> I guess you are a rather risk adverse sort of person.
Not particularly no. Just pointing out, what i thought was obvious.
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>> Virtually every tumble dryer fire is caused by failure to clean the filter in line
>> with the manufacturers instruction , poor wiring of plug or overloading of the socket. There’s
>> all the mitigation you need.
We keep the fluff filter clean with ours but unless there's a fault it doesn't get anything like as hot as the previous one without a heat pump did. When we had that the kitchen/Utility were warmest place in the house.
They're not now.
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>> Virtually every tumble dryer fire is caused by failure to clean the filter in line
>> with the manufacturers instruction , poor wiring of plug or overloading of the socket. There’s
>> all the mitigation you need.
>>
That will explain why a number of models were recalled due to a fault causing them to catch fire then, I presume.
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It's true that intuitive understanding of relative risk is something humans aren't good at. That's how they sell lottery tickets.
But you also need to consider the possible severity of risk events as well as the likelihood of them happening. That's why most of us have an annual bet with an insurance company on our house burning down, and why it also makes sense to mitigate even unlikely risks. Peace of mind has a value.
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If we’re talking lottery odds, then Netflix has a documentary called “Beat The Lotto” that’s quite fun, about a “mathematician” (in a pig’s eye if you ask me) who decided he could.
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“But you also need to consider the possible severity of risk events as well as the likelihood of them happening”
You do indeed but you also have to take into account the utility of the risk taking event. If you just take into account the possible severity of the risk event and its likelihood of happening without taking its utility into account then you would never get in a car for fear of injury.
As regards the use of a tumble drier I would suggest that the risk of injury arising out of its use is statistically vanishingly small but its use has a very high utility so justifying its use.
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A recall for 85,000 heatpump dryers was mentioned in the Telegraph today. Chinese manufacturer Haier.
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Due to the half in UK half in EU of Northern Ireland Tumble Drier supply is somewhat complex.
You can still buy condenser tumble dryers in Northern Ireland, but stock is limited.
Currys.ie still has stock of the banned condenser models
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"a fire risk due to an internal short circuit during normal use."
So not because they are heat pump tumble dryers then - could be any consumer device.
EDIT : Interesting to see the affected brands - Baumatic, Candy, Caple, Haier, Hoover, Lamona, Iberna, Montpellier
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 11 Dec 25 at 11:24
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Hotpoint had a similar issue a few years ago. Ours was seemingly fine but was replaced.
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>> A recall for 85,000 heatpump dryers was mentioned in the Telegraph today. Chinese manufacturer Haier.
>>
Mine is part of this recall. It's branded Hoover, made in Turkey. I had ben running it overnight on my cheap electricity tariff (Octopus Agile).
Been without use of it for a month now, since I was notified. I'm still waiting for a technician to arrive and fix it, not even got an appointment nor estimated lead time on an appointment yet. Shambles. Device is just over 2 years old, out of warranty so can't return it to the retailer either.
I bought a dehumidifier with laundry mode from Argos on a Black Friday deal, and I prefer it to the tumble dryer now.
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In or out of warranty an appliance needs to be fit for purpose.
If you have drier you cannot use for months with no date when it might be fettled or replaced then it's self evidently not fit for purpose.
Your redress however is against the seller who will fight tooth/nail to avoid actually accepting liability.
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Wall box charging - John F
