www.dailymail.co.uk/motoring/article-1319649/Britains-biggest-driving-school-ditches-thousands-Fiat-500s-officials-complained-small.html
I expect it will have some effect with that many cars coming onto the used market, but it may work for buyers after a relative bargin - I wonder if they are all white as the BSM 500s ive seen were?
|
How many punters will realsie they are buying / have bought a "learner's car"?
It may come as a shock when the V5 comes through the door 3 weeks later.
|
|
So it is an examiner supervision issue?
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Tue 12 Oct 10 at 11:06
|
>> It comes as news to me that an examiner ever needs to sit in the
>> back seats of a car in which he/she is conducting a test. Mind you, I
>> haven't taken a test since 1964 so waht do I know about 2010? LOL!
>>
They don't - they are referring to the "Officials" who check the examiners are doing their job properly.
As in:
"But the Government's Driving Standards Agency officials who check that L-test instructors and their cars are up to the job, struggled to fit into the rear of the Fiat for the mandatory check-test."
I didn't know that examiners were checked on-the-job as it were.
I wonder who checks that the DLA Officials are correctly checking the examiners?
J
|
It may come as a shock when the V5 comes through the door 3 weeks later.
According to our old friend HJ BSM use another company called the "Engineering Education Trust" to register the ownership of the cars - so as to not put off buyers and to therefore retain the value of the cars.
Bit of a blow for Fiat though, the contract was for 14,000 cars over the contract period and it looks like that stops at the 3250 referred to in the DM.
J
Last edited by: Jacks on Tue 12 Oct 10 at 11:19
|
It may come as a shock when the V5 comes through the door 3 weeks later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> its an even bigger shock when youve bid and paid,go to collect it and see the pedals on the other side :-(
|
Given that the reason for the switchover is the lack of room in the rear for DSA officials when checking examiners - specifically:
'In these cases their physical stature may prevent them from sitting safely and securely in the rear seat of the car, facing fully forward, with full use of a seat belt."
I'm very surprised the MINI has become so popular with driving instructors.
My wife has a MINI and I would say it's impossible for a normal sized adult to sit in the rear as described above- when both front seats are occupied.
J
|
>>BSM said the new Vauxhalls included 'modifications specific to the needs of learner drivers and instructors.'
This includes larger dials on the dashboard for improved visibility, rear headrests and upgraded power steering.
What's that all about then? I know many new drivers have bought the same model of car that they learned to drive in, presumably through lack of confidence in being able to drive something else. They're likely to be disappointed.
|
>> >>BSM said the new Vauxhalls included 'modifications specific to the needs of learner drivers and
>> instructors.'
>> This includes larger dials on the dashboard for improved visibility, rear headrests and upgraded power
>> steering.
>>
>> What's that all about then? I know many new drivers have bought the same model
>> of car that they learned to drive in, presumably through lack of confidence in being
>> able to drive something else. They're likely to be disappointed.
>>
That sounded pretty bizarre to me; are they really going to create spare parts hassles for the future just for 3000 odd BSM cars? I'm surprised, given the heavily stylised nature of today's dashboards, that there's room to fit larger dials anyway.
OK rear headrests are presumably just from a higher trim spec. model anyway, but even so, they must be desperate to get rid of these Corsas. Having said that the publicity value of the change to GM is pretty high I guess.
|
As usual a bit more to it than the headline.
If it was simply a question of size and a contract already being in place wouldn't a switch to Panda or Punto be the solution ?
BSM said it was making the switch after 'listening to our core audience'.
In a message or 'tweet' on Twitter, former Labour minister Tom Watson MP had called BSM the "Italian School of Motoring" when they switched to Fiat.
What agreements were made when Ellesmere Port was saved ?
|
Oh well at least their pupils will learn how to deal with a snapped camshaft at 50mph :p
BSM said the Vauxhall Corsa enjoys a 5 star Euro-NCAP crash test safety rating as well as 'excellent' fuel consumption.
Err so is the 500.
There seems to be a lot more to this as said.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 12 Oct 10 at 12:05
|
|
Corsas are made in Spain and Germany, I think Ellesmere Port is Astra only.
|
|
BSM is German owned (Arques Industries) Vauxhall is ermmm not British either.
|
|
The town of Eisenach overlooked by the castle Wartburg the home of the corsa
|
When I learned to drive, my instructor got tested and he asked me to be the pupil. His examiner only just fitted in the rear of the Corsa ;-)
I kind of ignored him until I had to do a reverse manoeuvre around a corner and then he was basically sat in the way to see over my shoulder properly. He was a little 'physically challenging' size wise though. My instructor was pleased with a score of 4 out of 5. I was pleased with a free two hour lesson.
|
I had that too and got a free lesson as he saw he as a low risk. It meant having to change lesson times but I didn't complain. The only difficult thing is was at that stage I was driving round and everything lesson was like a mock test and it felt strange to have constant instruction again. He had a MK3 Clio 5 door and the inspector fitted in perfectly.
I would hate to thing what a Corsa with improved power steering would be like to drive, it must feel like driving on ice. My old Corsa B which has one of the first cars to be fitted with the modern electric PAS system had very light steering as it is although the new Corsa would be a lot heavier.
Just hope for the BSM pupils they have ordered the trouble free 1.4 16V belt engines not the heap I had which suffers from camshaft failure (mine died of HG failure).
That said apart from the trouble some of the chain driven Ecotecs give Corsas tend to be very reliable. Even my old B was very well built was completly free of rattles at 83,000 (once I got the springs replaced).
I do feel sorry for the FIAT UK though they don't seem to have much luck.
|
BSM are regarded as something of a joke in the industry. Mostly trainee or newly qualified instructors, or those who aren't good enough to make it on their own.
Their only worth is setting a benchmark for prices.
|
I agree and I always recomend people use a good local instructor however I know a lot of people that speak highly of BSM.
|
|
Was there not an issue when the new shape Corsas first came out that the speedo was not visible from the passenger seat, therefore not allowing it to be used in tests?
|
|
That was the case with the Yaris. Toyoto supplied an extra speedo on cars bought by ADI's at no extra cost. Unless things have changed in the last six years there is no bar on a car being used on a test because the examiner can't see the speedo.
|
>> That was the case with the Yaris.
Eh? The speedo is in the middle of the dash on the Yaris. Clever of Toyota to design a car with the speedo so positioned that apparently neither the front passenger, nor, based on my experience, the driver can read. Still, I bet being able to use the same dash moulding on lhd and rhd vehicles saved them loads.
|
>former Labour minister Tom Watson MP had called BSM the "Italian School of Motoring"
I'm struggling to decide where Tom Watson fits on my "Most Odious Politicians" list.
Name-calling is about the only thing the mentally-challenged, fat little git did ;-)
When he wasn't having difficulty understanding the second home allowance, or stabbing his colleagues in the back, of course.
Kevin...
Last edited by: Kevin on Tue 12 Oct 10 at 21:19
|
There's more to this than meets the eye, some (very few) BSM instructors already have Punto's.
I had one or two instructors asking me where 'park' was on the rare 500 autos at handover, they were less than impressed to find there isn't one..;)
|
|
How did that work then GB (or not)
|
Most if not all automated manuals haven't got a 'park' setting Mart, so it's a case of selecting a gear then turning the engine off, obviously the same in reverse (or first.;) when you restart, i imagine that would be quite complicated to explain to a new driver.
Does the Mitsi Colt have a 'park' setting cos i can't remember?
EDIT, i seem to recall the latest C4 Picasso's having a park setting does anyone know for sure or was it my imagination.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 12 Oct 10 at 22:26
|
I remember a long time ago getting a Mercedes A-Class (the original one) as a courtesy car. This had a conventional H-Gate 5 Speed gearbox but no clutch pedal as the clutch was activated automatically. I found it unnerving as I kept expecting it to stall and there was no labour saving effect as I still had to paddle the gear lever around.
When I took it back to the dealer I asked what the advantage was and he told me that he didn't know, but pensioners seemed to like it. I really couldn't see the point, especially as there was actually a torque converter fully automatic version available.
|
|
Let's hope that Vauxhall have done some work on the semi-automatic transmission fitted to Corsas. On the Corsa I had as a courtesy car (09-reg) the lurch it made when changing gear would have disgraced a learner on their first day out. It happened whether or not you eased off the accelerator on gear changes.
Last edited by: Avant on Tue 12 Oct 10 at 23:01
|
>> Most if not all automated manuals haven't got a 'park' setting Mart...
>>
This is a troll right ? The clue being in the automated MANUAL!!!
Where is park on a manual gearbox ?
|
>> This is a troll right ? The clue being in the automated MANUAL!!!
>> Where is park on a manual gearbox ?
I think gb is referring to the transmission types like the Renault Quickshift and the Alfa Romeo Selespeed. These use manual gearboxes with a clutch, but the gearchanging and clutch operations are peformed fully automatically by servomotors without any intervention from the driver. The driver is presented with 2 pedals, brake and accelerator and a lever to select forward and reverse, just as on a conventional torque converter automatic. Therefore it is not unreasonable to expect the shift lever to work in the same way as a conventional automatic, including a Park position. It would certainly confuse me if this was not the case and I don't know why the manufacturers chose to confuse their customers like this - even the Toyota Prius has a Park position and this has no conventional gearbox!
|
Therein lies the problem Bagpuss. If you take one of these 2 pedal manuals and drive it like an automatic they will have problems. Torque converter autos allow some abuse (sitting in queues in drive with foot on the brake pedal to stop it creeping), you would not do this to a manual (sit in gear, foot fully depressing the clutch pedal for several minutes) but people do it to these 2 pedal manuals then complain about jerky gearchanges and premature clutch wear.
gb made an excellent point in another thread recently talking about tight space manoeuvering. These cars are not very good for that kind of driving so if that is part of your daily routine definitely steer clear of them.
|
>> you would not do this to a manual (sit in gear, foot fully depressing the
>> clutch pedal for several minutes) but people do it to these 2 pedal manuals then
>> complain about jerky gearchanges and premature clutch wear.
No I wouldn't, but this is exactly how my sister used to drive her MX5! Actually she used to ride the clutch while stopped at traffic lights. As an engineer, mentally picturing all those stressed out oily bits, I used to despair. I would actually have more trust in the electronic systems of automated manuals to reduce wear and tear on the clutch and transmission than in many drivers to do the same. I still don't like them though, they're a good idea in principle being light, compact and relatively simple, but the end product is inferior in operation to a modern epicyclic or dual clutch transmission. Both of these, of course, also have the reassuring "Park" position on the gear selector.
|
>> This is a troll right ? The clue being in the automated MANUAL!!!
>>
>> Where is park on a manual gearbox ?
>>
It wasn't meant as a troll though take your point, on a normal manual it's second nature to slip the motor into first or reverse as an addition to the handbrake, it takes more thinking about with an automated manual and new especially learner drivers have quite enough on their plate as it is....actually do leaners get taught to leave a car in gear when parked i wonder?
Don't get me started on the wondrous combination of automated manual and electric handbrake..;)
|
EGS, electric handbrake, DMF, DPF Bingo! SWMBO car has the lot.
Want a shot gb ? >8-P
|
>> EGS, electric handbrake, DMF, DPF Bingo! SWMBO car has the lot.
>>
Er no ta, probably got a DMF together with a DPF on the C2 and still can't believe i've done it.;)
By the way have you found the thing that looks suspiciously like an IUD in the tool kit for the unlikely event the park brake should fail to release?
|
Going back to Fiat 500s, does the dashboard remind anyone else of a 1950's radio?
No matter how good the car might be I would never buy one as I just couldn't live with facing that every time I got in.
|
|
I quite like FIAT dashboards minimalist but OK for me. Some manufacturers make you feel like you're in the cheap seats to make you upgrade.
|
>> By the way have you found the thing that looks suspiciously like an IUD in
>> the tool kit for the unlikely event the park brake should fail to release?
>>
You mentioned it once before so I checked. Hopefully I'll never need it or have to scramble underneath to retrieve the space saver from it's cradle (where do you put a full size wheel if there are 7 in the car?).
|
(where do you put
>> a full size wheel if there are 7 in the car?).
>>
Just shows, i thought the spare was full size on those that have them, still better than a can of goo when the tyres shredded on a Sunday evening in the pouring rain.
Edit, i too like the 500's dash, such a refreshing change from the sea of black plastic in everything else.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Wed 13 Oct 10 at 21:50
|
FIAT 500 - BSM sell-off affect used values? - Falkirk Bairn
