Last week, my 8 year old VW Golf MK7 had its annual service and I had a loan car for the day.
This turned out to be an DSG VW T-Cross a small step away from T-Roc I was considering buying. This was the first Auto in over 60 years driving that I have been presented with and so was a bit alarmed to be honest.
Anyway as far as the DSG, I got on fairly well and could not see what all the fuss was about and the novelty of not manually changing gear all the time was grea,t however this model had a dreaded manual handbrake which I forgot to release on a few occasions.
My main gripe with this car and now all the new VW cars is the knob-less Climatronic HVAC system. I could not see myself, safely, operating the 'controls' whilst driving. And I could not see immediately what the 'AUTO' button did or does but maybe there's some set up required. My current car's controls can be adjusted by touch only and are intuitive.
I did not have time or the inclination to find out how one would drive this Auto on hills steeper than 10% stopping and starting but assume and Electronic handbrake and Autohold in the T-Roc would help considerably.
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I share your feelings with controls embedded in touch screens. The HVAC controls on my current car are traditional buttons (well soft touch electronic ones) and knobs. Far more sensible.
Does the T-Cross have hill assist or similar - this senses when the car is stationary and applies the brakes to aid hill starts. Again something that mine has (though annoyingly it has to be re-started every time the ignition is restarted.
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It may well have some form of Hill Assist. It did not run backwards when I released the handbrake on my steep-ish drive. I've read an awful lot on how to drive DSG car so as to minimise clutch wear and could certainly detect when clutches were engaging/disengaging during slow moving and stop/starting in traffic queues.
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The manual for my Seat Ateca - a VW Group car - has 367 pages. It does have knobs for the AC controls, but there must be well over 100 driver and vehicle configuration settings available on screen.
Cars are now computers with wheels and motor attached. For the manufacturer to provide an almost infinite number of configuration options is a few of lines of code. The solution may be for manufacturers to adopt an AI based approach and let the car configure itself.
Most new cars require registration of the vehicle and user - on the Seat the main carrot seems to be sat nav with traffic information. A simple questionnaire could cover lifestyle, age, behaviours.
90%+ of configurable items would probably be set correctly. The remaining 10% could be adjusted over time. It would cut out a lot of reading, or several weeks of intermittent reference to the manual to sort things out.
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I noticed that there wasn't a user handbook in this car so I could not read anything about certain features. I had read or heard that they are not provided automatically but the dealer can supply them. Anyway, they may have removed the one from this courtesy car which, by the way was one of higher up the range models. Had it had the E-brake it is a car I could well have bought as now felt it more than adequate for my needs in DSG/!.5litre guise.
Also I believe an e-manual can be downloaded via the infotainment system. No thanks, I want to sit indoors in comfort reading the ins and out of ownership.
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>> Also I believe an e-manual can be downloaded via the infotainment system.
Yep, quite a few different hire cars I've driven the past 3 years or so have had an electronic copy of the handbook buried somewhere in the menu of the infotainment system.
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electronic or manual handbrakes. Doesn’t bother me a jot...both my current cars , Vitara and Yaris, have the Manuel variety and manual gearbox. And proper twiddly knobs for the heater controls, which I prefer by far.
My regular rental cars vary, but on screen temperature controls do irk me. I know folks who say you leave it set at whatever temp, but often I need to de mist, turn up the fan, decrease the temp if it’s warm and sunny, then it gets cloudy, or it’s night, and I turn it up.
Manual or auto box very much depends on the quality of the manual gearchange, and what kind of car you drive. If I were working, a stop start commute, then 100% an auto box. But often , because of where I live, and drive on long trips for leisure, a manual is just fine.
I learnt to drive on an uncles auto Marina, and my Fathers manual Hillman Hunter, and a Driving School Dolomite.
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>> electronic or manual handbrakes. Doesn’t bother me a jot...both my current cars , Vitara and
>> Yaris, have the Manuel variety ......
...specially selected for your trips to Spain?....
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>> ...specially selected for your trips to Spain?....
>>
Indeed, the Vitara was. First and foremost its reliability.
Sensible 17” wheels, excellent all round visibility with slim pillars, especially important if travelling solo, good mpg, a comfortable ride, not too big so I felt comfortable on narrow mountain & country roads, especially when it was regularly parked up a mountain road on a verge. Decent ground clearance, a punchy 1.4 engine combined with its light weight, and as it happens, no back or bottom ache after a 6 hour drive to /from the south coast.
It’s not perfect, by a long way, road testers criticise the down market interior, laggy screen, lack of options such as heated seats, wireless phone charging, but over 3.5k miles, a mix of motorway, 10 days up n down mountains in Andorra, a fair bit of back road mimsing across Spain, 53 mpg overall is most acceptable.
And it has room for a space saver in the rear wheel well.
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...and some fell on stony ground.... ;-)
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>> ...and some fell on stony ground.... ;-)
>>
No it didn’t...as Carmen we both understood that.
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This thread is very topical for me.
My pal is looking for a new car to replace his Mazda CX3.
He likes a car with toys - but reality is he never uses them! Am confident he will never have switched on the cruise control of his car!
Looking at the Ateca/ Karoq autos but from what I can see you need to go to the very top spec to get heated seats. Which he will use!
I remember heated seats used to come in about level 2 in model specs!
But another factor is this issue with HVAC within touch screen. That could be a deal breaker for any prospective car.
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I had heated seats on a D reg base model Volvo 240 estate several decades ago.
Neither the GRYaris nor Vitara are available with heated seats whatsoever, although the GRY has a HUD, which I thoroughly liked in previous cars.
Heated steering wheel is also nice…
Couple of years ago had a rental Fiesta from Alicante with both heated seats & steering wheel…think it was a Covid cancelled order, meant for Scandi countries, picked up cheap by the hire company.
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I find that most VW cars and others I have specced up to have most of the features my Golf Match has come with much bigger wheels and even lower profile tyres (hard ride) and tinted rear window which I can't stand.
This very afternoon I went out to a garden centre and had to park next to what I though was a hulk of a car and not really to my taste and guess what? It was a T-Roc and not a Tiguan as had first thought. I don't want that size vehicle to be honest for my now modest annual mileage. I feel so deflated now and perhaps the T-Cross and its handbrake is more suitable.
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Have you had a look at other brands Oldgit?
Hyundai do a range of small SUVs with generous features and a 5 year warranty as do their sister company Kia who offer a 7 year warranty.
There is also Skoda and Seat who have similar cars (same basic underpinnings) to the T-ROC / Cross and usually a bit cheaper.
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Yes I shall be looking at other brands but want main dealerships that are not too far away from where I live. WJ King are a stone's throw away and deal with Vauxhall and SEAT and I believe another make but no longer Hyundai. We did have a Hyundai i10 for years but it was not my car but I did not like that obviously as it was just a run about car with limited room and poor instrumentation but realise there are better more luxurious models in their range. Kia are also near me at the Chinese Garage.
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Is the T-Roc not shorter in length than your Golf?
I just love the practical shape of SUVs. I prefer sitting up. I prefer the extra space for the smaller footprint.
The elderly parents can get in and out easier.
A hatchback like a Golf doesn’t offer me anything that the SUVs don’t.
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OG you should be able to view the electronic manual using this link.
www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/owners-and-services/my-car/manuals.html
You'll need the car's VIN - this is what I use for my GTI although I do have a paper copy - my service records are all digital.
At my last service in March down at Sevenoaks I was presented with a massive ID5 - very soulless and I would preferred something much smaller like an Up! just for the day.
Gosh the Chinese Garage as been reborn so many times under different brands - I first remember it when it was a BL garage.
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>> OG you should be able to view the electronic manual using this link.
>>
>> www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/owners-and-services/my-car/manuals.html
>>
>>
>> You'll need the car's VIN - this is what I use for my GTI although
I was able to find a manual, downloaded as a pdf file for the VW Tiguan which had the same Climatronic system and generally looked the same in some respects as to the bits I was interested in. So much of these manuals contains pages and pages about safety considerations aspects of car ownership about which I have no interest.
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>> Is the T-Roc not shorter in length than your Golf?
>>
>> I just love the practical shape of SUVs. I prefer sitting up. I prefer the
>> extra space for the smaller footprint.
>> The elderly parents can get in and out easier.
>> A hatchback like a Golf doesn’t offer me anything that the SUVs don’t.
>>
Yes I believe it's about an inch or so shorter but it just seemed massive as I was trying to squeeze back into the driver's seat with limited space available. I know looks can be deceptive even that T-Cross seemed bulkier. I want and SUV because of your parents' problems i.e. easier to get in and out.
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The amount of times you hear the tree huggers and the climate activists being anti SUV and the reality of them is that in many cases they have a smaller footprint than your average Golf or Focus which they don’t seem to have a problem with.
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>> The amount of times you hear the tree huggers and the climate activists being anti
>> SUV and the reality of them is that in many cases they have a smaller
>> footprint than your average Golf or Focus which they don’t seem to have a problem
>> with.
I don't think 'tree huggers' have an issue with SUVs like The Skoda Karoq or even the Kodiaq.
It's f-off massive Range Rovers and the like that get people's backs up.
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>>Tree huggers...
This is a motoring forum. Has the swear filter broken? ;-)
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>> The amount of times you hear the tree huggers and the climate activists being anti
>> SUV and the reality of them is that in many cases they have a smaller
>> footprint than your average Golf or Focus which they don’t seem to have a problem
>> with.
No they dont, they almost all use existing footprints/floor pans The problem with SUV type vehicles is they obstruct road vision and hazard perception for everyone else.
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>The problem with SUV type vehicles is they obstruct road vision and hazard perception
>for everyone else.
Unlike sheds-on-wheels, MPVs. commercial vehicles, vans, buses etc?
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But kevin, you are always in front of them in yur BMW
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Actually, I'm on the lookout for something that I could use as a day to day 'City' car instead of using the BMW.
I'm thinking something like a 1970s Ford F150 with the RSJ bumpers.
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>>
>> Unlike sheds-on-wheels, MPVs. commercial vehicles, vans, buses etc?
>>
I'd have thought buses were much more conspicuous, Kevin. Almost impossible to miss, really.
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> A hatchback like a Golf doesn’t offer me anything that the SUVs don’t.”
Apart from better handling and fuel economy of course.
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SUVs are a short, or possibly even socially inadequate people thing. My wife (who is short) likes them. It gives them the opportunity to feel “tall” and therefore, in their confusion and self obsession, more significant. There is no argument to substantiate any dynamic advantages for them in normal road use, on the contrary, they are in almost every way, more compromised.
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>> SUVs are a short, or possibly even socially inadequate people thing. My wife (who is
>> short) likes them. It gives them the opportunity to feel “tall” and therefore, in their
>> confusion and self obsession, more significant. There is no argument to substantiate any dynamic advantages
>> for them in normal road use, on the contrary, they are in almost every way,
>> more compromised.
>>
That’s me put firmly in my place. A socially inadequate plebeian. Yorkshire person to boot. Or clog.
Firstly a Barbiemobile then a hairdressers Vitara for exploring foreign places, seeking out fish, chips & curry sauce.
What next..a white Audi Q3 ?
:-)
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As a "Yorkshire person" you have a perfectly valid reason for owning an SUV. How else would you transport your pigeons and whippets.
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Other brands to consider...
So far the Toyota Yaris Cross has lived up to expectations - see my other thread. i will post a better review when I reach 1500 miles.
The back seat access may be a little tight for elderly passengers?
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>> Other brands to consider...
>>
>> So far the Toyota Yaris Cross has lived up to expectations - see my other
>> thread. i will post a better review when I reach 1500 miles.
>>
>> The back seat access may be a little tight for elderly passengers?
>>
What about the widely reported 12v battery keep on loosing its charge if the car if the car is not used for a few day? That would put me of that car for a start.
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>> And I could not see immediately what the 'AUTO' button did or does but maybe
>> there's some set up required.
We only ever use Auto in wife's Karoq and just tweak the temp a degree or two up and down as needed. There's no set-up required - it just does its own thing, which has always seemed fine.
T-Cross is really a jacked up Polo. T-Roc is jacked up Golf.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Mon 28 Oct 24 at 15:01
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>> We only ever use Auto in wife's Karoq and just tweak the temp a degree
>> or two up and down as needed. There's no set-up required - it just does
>> its own thing, which has always seemed fine.
Well what I have seen that if you press the 'menu' button if you have one in your Climatronic panel, that brings up a picture of the interior on the screen and then if you press 'Auto' there one can select one of several profiles which might include air distribution etc.
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>> Well what I have seen that if you press the 'menu' button if you have
>> one in your Climatronic panel, that brings up a picture of the interior on the
>> screen and then if you press 'Auto' there one can select one of several profiles
>> which might include air distribution etc.
>>
On our Skoda's, you have to touch the fan icon in that screen - and it's really not obvious, and I've never seen it explained, that it does anything.
However it brings up low / medium / high profiles, which supposedly vary the power of the a/c. As best I can tell, all they do is vary the range of speed that the fan uses on auto.
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Volkswagen - Annual courtesy car tribulations. - zippy
