Can anyone enlighten me. : Motoring Motoring Discussion forum

Motoring Discussion > Can anyone enlighten me.	Legal Questions
Thread Author: wotspur	Replies: 11

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Wed 17 Jan 24 18:05

Can anyone enlighten me. - wotspur

Someone I know was a driver on the A40 out of London back in March 2023 got caught speeding in 2 section of temporary roadworks on the same night around 23-50 .
However they weren’t the owner

The owner received two “ notice of prosecution from the Met police.
As the driver had zero previous offences , they accepted a SAC and payments on one and the owner had to advise the Met and changed of address as said person lived away in digs whilst in their final uni year
The other one the owner was going to deal with , but forgot
Do the Met send out reminders before going to court ???

Come Dec the owner received a LLLC claim for £398.00

We have put in an appeal , on the basis that all correspondence was sent to the drivers address as proved by the court papers , however these were all sent after 31/07/23 when the tenancy agreement finished - I’ve had it confirmed that any mail sent after then are RETURN TO SENDER , so court action was unknown about (sent around 1/9/23.
Again it’s been proven that the last correspondence was to Owner and not drivers address , I assume when landlord agents put Return to sender, they reverted back to the Owner .

The original fine was £100.00 what might we get away with , I assume the Reminder would have increased to 160 can anyone confirm

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Wed 17 Jan 24 18:14

Can anyone enlighten me. - Bromptonaut

Not sure I'm following this.

Same driver, not registered keeper (RK), was caught *2 in roadworks on the A40.

Keeper received NIP and invitation to name the driver which he did at least in relation to offence #1. The driver did a course and matter therefore closed.

Offence #2 was overlooked by the RK so police were not advised of driver.

He's now had LLLC (whatever that is) in relation to offence #2.

Please can you clarify where we are now?

Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 17 Jan 24 at 18:14

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Wed 17 Jan 24 19:01

Can anyone enlighten me. - wotspur

Yup you’ve followed everything 100%
The first offence was sorted by Speed course and money paid

The second one as owner , I forgot - ALL further notices went to Drivers address , I didn’t need to notify them of address as I was going to pay and LIFE got in the way and I forgot .

All mail after March went to the address of the Driver , not RK And they arrived after he’d left the address - then Suddenly the paperwork reverted back to RK - I assume after receiving mail sent back to sender by the landlord

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Thu 18 Jan 24 07:26

Can anyone enlighten me. - RichardW

It's likely the owner has been prosecuted for Failing to Furnish, although the fine seems low for that. Check online driving licence status and see how many points / offence code is recorded (MS90 for FTF). This is a bad thing as far as insurance is concerned! You can do a 'Statutory Declaration' to get the case set aside and re-opened, and then if RK and driver are the same you can do a plea bargin to accept the speeding charge if the FTF is dropped - although that doesn't apply here. It seems pretty hard to disprove the FTF.... does the owner have copies of the forms sent and proof of posting?

Worth opening a thread on Pepipoo or FTLA to get some advice, but you will need to be much clearer as to what has happened and who has been convicted of what, as it's very unclear from these posts!

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Mon 22 Jan 24 18:41

Can anyone enlighten me. - wotspur

The owner had every intention of paying but forgot
The letters , do the Met police issue reminders ??? Why did all further letter go to the drivers address which he moved out and return to senders , then the court fine reverted back to the owners address

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Tue 23 Jan 24 08:38

Can anyone enlighten me. - Bromptonaut

OK I get #1, it's done and dusted as the offender did a SAC.

It must be me but I'm still not following the sequence for incident #2. Did the RK name the driver as being the same bod as #1? I don't think one can assume the Police will link #1 & 2; separate offences separate processes.

Are we actually in a situation where the owner, knowing he was not the driver, intended to pay the fine and take the points? Or was it a question of (say) Dad pays the fine and son gets the points?

My son had a similar but not identical issue. Went through same camera in Liverpool twice in a couple of weeks. NIP and demand for driver details set out as normal.

When he bought his car somehow or another he and/or the dealer registered it to the wrong address. Right flat number - a street of converted Edwardian Terraced house- but wrong door number. In the way of these places nobody ever looks at the pile of post that's nor picked up by residents. Eventually the bizzies, in the local argot, came visiting at which point 2 was added to 2 and somebody pointed out the the relevant vehicle belonged to a curly haired while bloke a few doors down. Clock 'wound back' course done and points/fine accepted for #2.

RichardW nails it though. Whatever people's intentions were the RK is potentially on 6 points and an endorsement that costs big time on insurance. He needs to get to the bottom of it!!

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Tue 23 Jan 24 11:20

Can anyone enlighten me. - RichardW

No, I don't understand either, but if #2 was RK taking the fine / points for someone else (to avoid a new driver 6 point revocation perhaps?) then that is bad form, and should the authorities work that out, there is a real potential for jail time!

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Tue 23 Jan 24 11:27

Can anyone enlighten me. - Bromptonaut

>> No, I don't understand either, but if #2 was RK taking the fine / points
>> for someone else (to avoid a new driver 6 point revocation perhaps?) then that is
>> bad form, and should the authorities work that out, there is a real potential for
>> jail time!

Indeed. As at least 2 former MPs have found.

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Thu 1 Feb 24 10:28

Can anyone enlighten me. - Bromptonaut

Any update Wotspur?

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Thu 1 Feb 24 11:45

Can anyone enlighten me. - Fullchat

".........RK is potentially on 6 points and an endorsement that costs big time on insurance. He needs to get to the bottom of it!! "

Ltd Companies can be RKs. The Company Secretary is the representative who is responsible for and reported on behalf of the company. Their driving record would be a bit of a mess in a large business. :)

Last edited by: Fullchat on Thu 1 Feb 24 at 11:46

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Thu 1 Feb 24 11:50

Can anyone enlighten me. - RichardW

They certainly can if they are an individual - plenty of posts on Pepipoo where folk have ended up on the wrong side with 6 points and MS90 code.

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Thu 1 Feb 24 12:15

Can anyone enlighten me. - Bromptonaut

Fullchat is right in theory. If the RK is a company then they're still obliged to name the driver but there are no points, only a fine, for failing to do so.

I guess in most cases the Ltd Co will be a hirer or have a corporate fleet to manage and should be organised enough to name the driver or state in whose care the car was.

Saw one where paperwork got lost in an organisation's internal mail system with consequences for an individual but cannot recall the details.

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