Current Berlingo is nearly ten years old and on 126k miles. Minds are turning to what might replace it.
Will be main car for two of us plus family/grandkids as required and MUST be able to tow up to, at least, 1500kg.
Stellantis no longer sell the 'lingo, or its siblings, as an MPV in the UK with an ICE engine. Anyway I need something that will tow more than 1300kg MTPLM. Furthermore it has to be without the GTW complication that means I'm overladen with current 'van and 4 adults.
Ideally we'd like another MPV with sliding doors. Only need 5 seats but a LWB 7 seater at the right price might be 'worth thinking about'. Manual transmission and, I think given we tow, a diesel engine.
Ive identified the following:
VW Caddy Combi
Ford Tourneo
Fiat Doblo.
Not sure of precise model designations - Combi or whatever - but it has to be a car and with decent trim as was the old Multispace Berlingo.
All seem to be sold through the van/commercial side of the dealer network.
Don't want to lash out something at or over £30k new but could afford it if we had to.
Anything else anyone can think of that's a van derived car, sliding rear doors and could tow 1500kg without a Gross Train Weight penalty.
If, on investigation, nothing ticks the above boxes then next phase of the search will be either conventional estates - Skoda Superb? - or some sort of SUV. Thought a bit around the SUVs I can't get my head around model ranges and where the crossover/compete matches are.
Ideas and views sought starting with MPV options please...
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 15 Jul 23 at 16:12
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If it has ben reliable and serviced per schedule 126k isn't a lot now days. I'd be of mind to run it to end of life....unless you just fancy a change, of course.
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>> If it has ben reliable and serviced per schedule 126k isn't a lot now days.
>> I'd be of mind to run it to end of life....unless you just fancy a
>> change, of course.
All things equal I'd run it until EOL as you say. We buy new or nearly new and run it into the ground.
That, or at least another year or two, may well a good option.
The fly in the ointment is towing. The current Elddis Xplore 'van has been just the job since 2014 and the GTW issue isn't a problem for it/two of us. Any replacement will need an island bed or some other arrangement so we can have a widdle in the night without on of us clambering over the other.
Next to nothing fits that bill at under the 'lingo's 1300kg MTPLM limit.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 15 Jul 23 at 17:42
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The later Caddy Maxi Life and later Ford are the same vehicle underneath. Dont know about engines.
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I thought that Stellantis had decided to keep an ICE engined version of the MPV Berlingo available, sure that I saw this about 6 months ago. Cannot find the reference, or any mention on the manufacurers site. Maybe it was just for Europe?
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>> Found it
>>
>> But does it meet your tow requirements?
Unless it's changed then (a) max braked tow weight 1300kg and (b) GTW limit less than (a) + max laden weight of car then answer to tow question is NO!!
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If you can survive without sliding doors, the S Max or Galaxy seem to tick most of the boxes.
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>> If you can survive without sliding doors, the S Max or Galaxy seem to tick
>> most of the boxes.
Aware of both those and they'll on my list IF there's nothing that has sliding doors and ticks the boxes.
Doors that slide are not a massive thing for me. Unless other things change though it'll Mrs B's daily drive and she finds them important in daily stuff and with her work as a supply teacher - kids and kit etc.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 15 Jul 23 at 22:23
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>> Alhambra has sliding doors.
Thanks, that had passed me by.
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Also available with VW Sharan badges of course.
The ICE Berlingo is indeed available again, but I would be surprised if VW Caddy/Ford Tourneo or Fiat Doblo are any bettter on the towing weight front?
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..information gleaned from towcar road tests indicate that the (up to '22) Tourneo connect will tow up to 1500kg, but at that weight would suffer from the same GVW issue that Bromp notes for the Berlingo.
Not sure if that is true for the '23 model, (since info is scarce) but the similar VW Caddy seems to have a GTW equal to the sum of the GVW and the 1500kg towing limit.
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Mon 17 Jul 23 at 13:20
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Something like a VW Transporter would tow well, although with my experiences I would not recommend one. And they are a van. Comfortable, roomy, etc. but still a van and possibly too big for Mrs B?
An alternative might be a Peugeot Traveller/Citroen Spacetourer/Vauxhall Vivaro Life. Smaller than a Transporter and car-based, so more car like in every way. My Traveller was infinitely nicer to drive than the Transporter and 100% reliable too. Haven't a clue on their towing limits, mind.
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I know you don't mean this, but how about the Citroen C4 Spacetourer? My brother has one and loves it. I've driven it and it's pretty good. 7 seats, and presumably decent luggage space if at least 2 of those are sacrificed. Discontinued, I think his is 2019 but they made them until quite recently. The Peugeot 5008 is similar but styled as a SUV rather than a people carrier. I think the Vauxhall Grandland is related too.
My brother is a former motor mechanic who was groomed to think Citroens should be avoided at any cost, but he now considers they were pretty clever on the whole and generally approves of his Spacetourer. His is a proper 8 speed auto (EAT8) which drives very well. Some early ones had 6 speeds or a fairly crappy automated clutch job - best avoided.
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Looked at the Spacetourer a while back and apart from setting itself up to be "Grampy Simon's Bus" it looks quite good though not sure whether height could be an issue in ferries and Le Shuttle - although the 'lingo goes in with the coaches ec as it's a handful of mm over the limit for the double deck car carriers.
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The C4 Spacetourer looks at least 6" lower than a Berlingo.
I think my brother bought his to be Grampy's bus TBH. Just don't tell anyone it's a 7 seater. It's very nice to drive and seems to have plenty of grunt with the 2 litre HDI.
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Ahhh, seems that Citroen use the Spacetourer name for both a C4 derivative and a van based car using the current Dispatch (is it still the Jumpy in some markets?).
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>> Ahhh, seems that Citroen use the Spacetourer name for both a C4 derivative and a
>> van based car using the current Dispatch (is it still the Jumpy in some markets?).
Correct. Used to be the C4 Picasso. And although the market seems to have spurned MPV's I think it's a better prospect on the face of it than the 5008 'SUV', which illustrates the inefficiency of SUV's for everyday transport by having more ground clearance and lower luggage capacity.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 17 Jul 23 at 16:45
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Quick look at the C4 Spacetourer's spec suggests that, like the 'lingo, the GTW limit is less than the sum of the max braked tow weight, 1500kg, and the car's max laden weight.
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1700KG for the 2.0 HDI? Doesn't that give enough headroom, I assume you wouldn't be using 7 seats?
I've seen the 160 auto listed as 1700Kg. I've asked brother for a picture of the plate. I can't find the train weights.
Quite fancy looking at one for my 1200Kg Eriba.
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The Kagoo can tow 1500 kg and the GTW is equal to the max laden weight and max tow weight but while in lhd it is available as an mpv, the UK seems to only get the van. Maybe the Mercedes T-class has the same towing limits (if that is to be had in the UK).
Last edited by: Biggles on Mon 17 Jul 23 at 18:56
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OK some numbers, brother has come up with these.
He has a 2019 C4 Grand Spacetourer Flair HDI 1997cc according to the V5. The V5 gives a towing limit of 1600.
From the plate:
GVW 2290
GTW 3590
So the 'real' towing limit is 1300, unless you sacrifice some payload.
"Mass in service" on V5 is 1615. I believe mass in service = kerbweight +75Kg for driver. So kerbweight would be 1540Kg, which is a figure I have found quoted online for this car.
So payload is 2290-1540 =750. That's a lot. If you can manage with say 550 (more than most 4/5 seaters allow) then you'd have up to 1500Kg for towing. If you wnat to use the full 1600, then you'll have to keep the payload to 450.
The online handbook that he has sent me a couple of tables from quotes the 1300, and also the 1600 "with load transfer within the GTW limit".
He tells me that 2020 MY gives 1700 rather than 1600 as the towing limit, but that doesn't mean much unless the GTW has changed.
So I should be OK with one of these to tow the Eriba.
He bought this car fairly recently I think. He told he the Citroen was c. £5k cheaper than an equivalent 5008, which shows you the difference between MPV's and SUV's in the minds of buyers at the moment.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 17 Jul 23 at 19:19
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P.S. - not sure they even do a manual? A proper auto is much better at towing anyway.
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>> P.S. - not sure they even do a manual? A proper auto is much better
>> at towing anyway.
If it's a TC job and not an electric manual that's probably right although I'd still prefer a manual.
Quite a few models with bigger diesel engines seem to be available only as autos.
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>> .... though not sure whether height could be an
>> issue in ferries and Le Shuttle - although the 'lingo goes in with the coaches
>> ec as it's a handful of mm over the limit for the double deck car
>> carriers.
>>
...as, presumably, is the "wobble box" ;-)
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Bump.
Still got the 'lingo but we're more or less committed to going down to just one car as my Fabia spends all its time on the drive occasionally venturing to the shop once a week or if it plays 'sub' to the 'lingo going to Wales/Murkeyside so visit the 'kids'.
Used to do an outreach in Kettering in previous role funded by a Cancer charity but jacked that in during last summer. Now 100% WFH and am not likely to change. The CA I work for is on the South Coast but have twigged that recruiting nationally for a national service is better than fishing in the commutable zone around the office.
Best option of what's available now seems to be a diesel Skoda Superb estate, will be previous gen SH as apart from cost all of the current range are DSG.
Any red lights with that model or other observations.
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Sounds like a sensible option. Does the current Berlingo use AdBlue? Guessing it does? If so, that’s one thing less to get used to.
The VAG 2.0 TDI unit has a decent reputation for longevity (assuming that the servicing schedule is adhered to), reliability and frugality.
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>>Any red lights with that model or other observations.
Last boss had one, kept for 3 years on PCP. Moaned at cost of servicing at main dealer and needed new suspension at 70k. Mainly motorway driving.
Bought another though just before I left.
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Having replaced My Berlingo (2013 XTR HDi auto, not ULEZ compatible) at 60k with a Hybrid Yaris Cross last September I must say I have not missed it yet. Ok bit tight with family and luggage but so far no battery problems, and have even managed a 2m Xmas tree. Auto is excellent (CVT) and does not try to kill me on a regular basis. Only downside so far is Insurance cost.
Be wary of new Berlingo, Type approval is based as a van derivative with lower speed limits and there is a fixed 'bulkhead' (carry over from van). Despite trying to view one during the last summer not sure what impact on versatility???
I will try to update my early impressions review of the Yaris Cross in the new Year - car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=31531
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Apart from transmission you former Berlingo sounds pretty well identical to ours.
The Berlingo and its various Stellantis siblings are off the table due to issues with towing weights around both mass and Gross Train Weight. The Ford and VW van derived cars are better in that regard but still marginal.
Need to tow up to 1500kg. Would prefer to keep an 85% kerb weight match but given 100% is OK for people with towing experience that's not a total show stopper.
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Replacing the Berlingo - Robin O'Reliant
