| Motoring Discussion > EV charging | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: legacylad | Replies: 76 |
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Thu 23 Mar 23 19:01
EV charging - legacylad
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A relatives neighbour has recently taken delivery of a purely electric VW Golf...ID3 ? Parking area front of house...extension lead from bedroom to car, with a plastic bag over where extension leads join up. It’s a Housing Association property so it will be interesting to see if the HA will pay to install a proper charger. |
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Thu 23 Mar 23 20:17
EV charging - Dieselboy
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| Well, that's a recipe for disaster if it's a standard 13A extension lead. |
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Thu 23 Mar 23 22:25
EV charging - Falkirk Bairn
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A bit like the Scottish Police. £13m on EVs in the last 2 years - next to nothing on charging. Public charging sites or a 13amp extension cable out of a police station window. Neither is a satisfactory solution. |
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Thu 23 Mar 23 23:24
EV charging - Manatee
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>> Well, that's a recipe for disaster if it's a standard 13A extension lead. At least they have off road parking next to the house. Plenty of houses don't, so there needs to be quite a bit of sorting out before everybody can be forced into EVs. I'm not sure I'll ever have one. We have a 2014 Roomster petrol and a and a 2017 Outlander diesel. I won't be replacing either unless it wears out. And when the first one does, I think we'll drop to one car between us. I also have a 2017 MX-5 which will last longer than me as it does about 4,000 mainly dry miles per year with no exposure to winter salt. I have had a supply put in for a charger when we built a new house a couple of years ago, but no actual charger yet. |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 07:37
EV charging - Crankcase
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If you are ever going to put in a charger, the prices are only going one way. I got mine for free as an incentive when I got my Zoe in 2013. Today, putting one in would be about £1000, especially if you pick one of the clever ones that can deal with solar inputs etc. My free one I now use on my Superb, so it’s not as if it’s not used. Charging on an extension cable can be fine. If you have a sensible extension lead, fully unwound, and not 1940s sockets to plug it into, lots of people use that and nothing else for thousands of miles of motoring. But exposing the socket on the lead to the weather, probably not so clever. I use my granny lead perhaps once a week when visiting, but never in the rain, and always under a cover even then. To be fair, the granny lead bit that comes with the car says it’s fully waterproof and it’s fine. Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 24 Mar 23 at 07:38
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Fri 24 Mar 23 08:43
EV charging - CGNorwich
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| An EV charging connector is increasingly going to be seen as a desirable feature when selling a house so its not totally money lost. |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 10:02
EV charging - Terry
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| We are having some serious work done to the house with electrics involved. We are future proofing things by ensuring that if an EV or PHEV comes (no immediate plans), connection to wall box and PVs is hassle free. |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 10:41
EV charging - henry k
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>> Well, that's a recipe for disaster if it's a standard 13A extension lead. >> Surrey to install thousands of electric vehicle chargers A total of 10,000 devices will be installed at 1,500 locations across the county by 2030. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-65013735 Its a start ! |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 11:36
EV charging - Crankcase
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What's the betting they will be set at ninety two pounds a kWh "to make sure there's enough profit to make it attractive for investors". Already lots of people are saying that public charging is a pain, and so expensive it's the same as petrol or more, so why stick with EV anyway? Hence current massive crash in used EV prices, and dealers not taking them in as p/x at all. Can't shift the blighters. Great time to buy, if you want one. |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 11:53
EV charging - Zero
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It was inevitable that power suppliers, and HM gov would be making up for lost revenue of fossil fuels and there would be a period where they need to recover the up front investment costs. One of the reasons Shell started a utilities company. Last edited by: Zero on Fri 24 Mar 23 at 11:54
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Fri 24 Mar 23 11:54
EV charging - Manatee
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| Where do they sell them? If I wanted a 'bargain' EV, what should I look for? |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 11:58
EV charging - Zero
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You can get a three year old Tesla Model 3 for 24 grand. Current new price 42k |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 13:57
EV charging - Manatee
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>> You can get a three year old Tesla Model 3 for 24 grand. Current new >> price 42k I'd be interested to see the Hyundai. Couldn't talk myself into wanting a Tesla - too many doubts around reliability and I think we'd want a smallish EV anyway. The Tesla 3 in particular also looks like a repurposed margarine tub. |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 14:08
EV charging - Zero
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>> I'd be interested to see the Hyundai. Couldn't talk myself into wanting a Tesla - >> too many doubts around reliability and I think we'd want a smallish EV anyway. The >> Tesla 3 in particular also looks like a repurposed margarine tub. Similar construction, fit and finish. |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 12:03
EV charging - Lygonos
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Hyundai IONIQ 38kWh - the efficiency king (5-6 mpkWh typically) and a bunch coming off lease right now. www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303024816030 2-2.5yr old for £16k May be a bit more of price falling to be done. Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 24 Mar 23 at 12:03
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Fri 24 Mar 23 12:38
EV charging - Kevin
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New Model 3 RWD now £39k from £43k. Any colour as long as it's white. www.tesla.com/en_GB/inventory/new/m3 |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 13:04
EV charging - sooty123
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www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210150762210 Or this for 21k, 43kwh only 4k miles. |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 13:19
EV charging - Terry
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Any new car will lose 40-50% of its cost in the first three years. With EVs the loss may currently be slightly greater due to: - technology rapidly evolving - 3 years old may soon be "last generation" tech - premium price paid three years ago when supply of EVs was scarce I don't think this a permanent problem - if/when charging capacity exceeds demand the market may rapidly change to penalise ICE purchases - fewer people will want them. |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 14:08
EV charging - Manatee
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>> www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210150762210 >> >> Or this for 21k, 43kwh only 4k miles. That sounds excellent value. 200miles+ range? My most frequent non-local journey is about 130 miles return so something like that would suit. That's brought back a memory. I wanted a Subaru Legacy 4 cam turbo estate from those people in 1991...it would have been a company car, but the response from the transport manager was "too risky". Ended up with an Audi 100. The Subaru's performance by 1991 standards was outstanding. |
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Fri 24 Mar 23 15:18
EV charging - Crankcase
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I've been looking at those older Ioniqs today too. Could be tempted as a daily, with the phev for the longer trips. But that means two sets of insurance etc. Hmm. |
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Fri 31 Mar 23 15:50
EV charging - wotspur
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My point on EV . I Wouldn’t have one if you paid me to have one. 10/15 yrs ago , we were encouraged to buy diesel vehicles by the Govt now we’re the pyriah esp in London where a parking space costs 50% more per hour ( how come , when were stationary , we’re making as much pollution as an EV or a petrol vehicle and are using the same space ??. All those self righteous EV owners , who go on about saving the planet . How are those batteries mined ( slave child labour) deep cast mining will be required , leaving a massive imprint on the planet , and those labourers suffering similar medical conditions to our miners , in the not so distant future . How long will each battery last 5/10 years and how will it be recycled , and how about the cost of replacement . I can see in 10 yrs time , the Govt will be saying No to EV , they’re too costly to charge , after all , the plugging into the grid costs money to produce that electricity too , which again has an environmental cost . If KHAN wanted to reduce emissions , his first job would be to coordinate all the traffic lights , on the main roads into and out of London , on the A2/A3/A4/A1/A40 ETC , so if you pull away from the first one and keep to the speed , every light will change to green upon the first cars approach , but if they’ve been speeding it’ll make them wait. |
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Fri 31 Mar 23 17:17
EV charging - smokie
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Not so sure that all EV drivers are self righteous. Unlike some diesel drivers :-) The cost to the planet of you arriving a and departing from your more expensive parking space is more than other vehicles, hence the additional cost I suppose. My EV doesn't cost a lot to charge. Less than a fiver at the moment for a home charge which will take me 200 miles give or take. Grid electricity will become cheaper once they decouple gas from the price equation, and make more use of renewables (if the general population would just let them get on and do it). However - what measures would you use to address climate change, or isn't that a thing in your world? Last edited by: smokie on Fri 31 Mar 23 at 17:17
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Sat 1 Apr 23 04:25
EV charging - Duncan
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>> However - what measures would you use to address climate change, or isn't that a >> thing in your world? The elephant in the room. Population control. The World's population has quadrupled in my lifetime from two billion to eight billion. We must stop this uncontrolled growth. We won't be here to see it, but there will be horrendous problems unless population growth is brought in check - and I don't just mean traffic jams on the Basingstoke By-pass. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 07:53
EV charging - Zero
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>> The elephant in the room. >> >> Population control. Elephant gun www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/17/worlds-population-is-projected-to-nearly-stop-growing-by-the-end-of-the-century/ |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 09:30
EV charging - smokie
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Can't disagree with the point re population control. Which reminds me of a phrase I read in a BBC article on how people will be struggling to pay their bills, with particular reference to council tax "A series of bill rises is likely to add to the financial burden felt by people like mother-of-five Catherine Griffin. Even though her partner works full-time, they are struggling to deal with council tax arrears." FIVE children, and presumably she doesn't work, not full time anyway (yes I know about the joys of motherhood). Didn't think through the consequences did they? www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65123881 |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 20:42
EV charging - Bromptonaut
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>> FIVE children, and presumably she doesn't work, not full time anyway (yes I know about >> the joys of motherhood). Didn't think through the consequences did they? >> >> >> www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65123881 When I saw that link this morning it mentioned Ms Griffin but looking again now it seems not to. Did it explain the back story to five children? Maybe the current partner is not her first. she might have met #2 after escaping abuse. If she's had five in one relationship what do you know about their situation before? All sorts of things might have changed, as well as prices way ahead of wages. Why is it OK to be judgemental? |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 21:03
EV charging - smokie
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| Fair points in this case, but there are people out there, as you must well know, where societal or familial responsibility comes way down their list of priorities. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 21:25
EV charging - Bobby
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>>Fair points in this case, but there are people out there, as you must well know, where societal or familial responsibility comes way down their list of priorities. ah, Boris....... |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 16:59
EV charging - Bromptonaut
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>> >>Fair points in this case, but there are people out there, as you must well >> know, where societal or familial responsibility comes way down their list of priorities. >> >> ah, Boris....... Of course there are such people and, as the example of our erstwhile former PM amply shows, they're not limited to people on 'welfare'. As I'm sure you know I have topped up my pension for the last few years as a Welfare Rights Advisor. Initially the benefits were peripheral; we were assessing people for a Social Tariff with income maximisation as part of the process. Since then I spent three years dealing with new Claimants to Universal Credit. In the first role there were a few who seemed to think 'the social' owed them a living and who knew the rules, for the then Income Support etc, as well as, or occasionally, better than I did. However, compared to those who'd been left alone, whether traded for a younger model, widowed or left to care for a critically ill partner they're a tiny minority. Even in Social Housing with two pre school kids the Benefit Cap can bite. For those renting privately the amount towards their rent is limited by Local Housing Allowance. Rents set by comparison to those at the bottom end of the market and, apart from being revalorised at the start of the pandemic have been frozen/uprated only by CPI. Saw a lady on Friday with stage 4 cancer. Her rent is £625/month. The LHA rate is £475. She will have £77/week to live on, find the balance of her rent and pay 20% of her Council Tax. As she's having Chemo she'll get a bit more to live on, about £160/week but only from the fourth month of her claim. And that's why people being judgemental makes me very cross. No kids as it happens but if she did the LHA might be a bit more and she's get something for the kids but she'd get diddly for the third onwards if they were under 6. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 20:53
EV charging - Bobby
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I’m with you on that Brompt. Niece in steady relationship with her man. 3 young kids. One day he decides he doesn’t want to do this anymore and gets up and leaves her with 3 kids under 7. Gives up his job and goes back to his mum. No chance of getting maintenance. Had to apply for rented accommodation. Get all the benefits she could to survive. Had had two jobs but each time lost them as employer wasn’t happy with her having to leave/ phone in sick when the kids were ill. When you are on minimum wage and just in the door the reality is normal employment rules and rights don’t apply. Her priority, rightly, is to bring up the three kids as best she can and forgoe any career or ambitions herself until they are old enough. Now let’s talk about covid grants fraud. And PPE contracts fraud. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 21:14
EV charging - Zero
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>> Now let’s talk about covid grants fraud. And PPE contracts fraud. Fine, better than talking about nurse deaths because HM gov refused to compromise over the 6-18 month new supplier reference checking. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 22:33
EV charging - Duncan
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>> >> Why is it OK to be judgemental? >> Because she is taking MY money. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 22:58
EV charging - CGNorwich
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“We must stop this uncontrolled growth.” “ Who is this “we” who is somehow going to prevent people having children against their will how do you propose it is done.? The very real and immediate problem that the we facing in this country is of course a rapid decline in the birthrate |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 06:36
EV charging - sooty123
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| I wouldn't describe the fall in birthrate to be rapid. South Korea and Japan have rapidly falling birth rates, i believe in Japan they are closing one school a day and the falling population is a major political issue. Not so much here. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 07:01
EV charging - Duncan
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>> The very real and immediate problem that the we facing in this country is of >> course a rapid decline in the birthrate I don't think it is rapid, unless you can explain the statistics differently to us, please? Surely this is good news - a step in the right direction. Why not? |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 15:29
EV charging - Manatee
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>>birthrate >> >> I don't think it is rapid, unless you can explain the statistics differently to us, >> please? >> >> Surely this is good news - a step in the right direction. Why not? As with e.g. climate there is the short term and the long term. Long term, the planet will support fewer people. There's not much chance of 8 million people living in peace and harmony at western European/north American/Japanese levels of consumption. Short term, some developed countries are getting into demographic imbalance. A report has just come out saying the UK pension age "needs" to go up to 70 by 2040, which is of course ridiculous. What is really needed is a fairer distribution of wealth. I can't be the only person who finds it distasteful to hear implied condemnation of people who happen to be poor having 5 children. Never mind the fact that they might not have considered themselves poor until their fuel bill reached £2500 a year or more. A country with a GDP like ours should aspire to enable everyone to have a decent life - we are heading for the opposite pole where it has to be accepted that wage earners will be poor while capitalists are allowed to keep what ever surplus there is. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 16:07
EV charging - smokie
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"I can't be the only person who finds it distasteful to hear implied condemnation of people who happen to be poor having 5 children" Accepting that I know nothing of the background to the particular case mentioned, oughtn't people cut their coat according to their cloth? I realise of course that circumstances change unexpectedly, but putting that aside I don't believe I've taken on any long term responsibilities on the basis that if I struggle the rest of you will help me out. However I am now strongly leaning towards your view on the wealthy. But again, where do you draw the line on what qualifies as wealthy? |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 16:44
EV charging - CGNorwich
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“but putting that aside I don't believe I've taken on any long term responsibilities on the basis that if I struggle the rest of you will help me out” Well,of course you have. Anyone who survives to retirement age is then effectively taking more out of society than they are giving back. They are dependant on a younger generation to provide food for them, tales care of them when they are Ill. The very fact of growing old puts a burden on the rest of society. It is not the birth rate that puts a strain on our society but the increasing length of time that the unproductive members live. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 19:03
EV charging - smokie
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Maybe (although I'm absolutely not convinced) but that's not what we're talking about really. We're talking about "self inflicted", for want of a better way to put it. Things you do which you have some control over. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 21:16
EV charging - Bromptonaut
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>> We're talking about "self inflicted", for want of a better way to put it. Things >> you do which you have some control over. At what point does one's conduct or circumstance make the problem self inflicted? We had two kids with the usual two year gap. I was a Civil Servant and my OH was a school teacher. In 1999, just as the younger one started school, we were instructed to attend a whole organisation meeting at the premises of one of the London Guilds. Junior Minister tells the entire organisation is crap and is to be wound up. Compulsory redundancy a serious possibility she says. Should I have seen that coming? Or the subsequent Mental Health issues that drove herself out of the classroom? In the event it all worked out. I found another perch and she was able to find other work; welfare never claimed. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 22:02
EV charging - Zero
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>> At what point does one's conduct or circumstance make the problem self inflicted? >> When one has 5 children from 4 (now absent) fathers by the age of 28 or you father 5 different children by 4 different women and make yourself unemployable to avoid paying paternity. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 22:07
EV charging - Bromptonaut
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>> When one has 5 children from 4 (now absent) fathers by the age of 28 >> >> or you father 5 different children by 4 different women and make yourself unemployable to >> avoid paying paternity. Where that happens even I might agree; Smokie's net seemed to be cast much wider. |
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Mon 3 Apr 23 09:51
EV charging - smokie
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I'd not considered what I originally wrote adequately, it was more the sort in Zero's examples I had in mind. I overlooked that when one comments on a forum there is always someone there to pick out the inadequacies of what you said or how you said it. I'm a different person now, that seems to be the get-out phrase these days. :-) |
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Mon 3 Apr 23 10:02
EV charging - Zero
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>> I'm a different person now, that seems to be the get-out phrase these days. :-) "I am confronting my inherited prejudices". Seems to be an accepted catch all now. I add tho "alas this process expresses itself as anger and abuse" |
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Fri 31 Mar 23 22:52
EV charging - CGNorwich
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"All those self righteous EV owners , who go on about saving the planet" I've got an EV. I hope I am neither self righteous nor indeed go on about saving the planet although there are major environmenta issues that any educated and intelligent person might believe need to be discussed and addressed whatever car they choose to drive. Does it occur to you that that some people might actually like driving an EV and that it might fit in very well with their requirements. Have you ever driven an EV? You never known you might even like driving one yourself "How are those batteries mined ( slave child labour) deep cast mining will be required , leaving a massive imprint on the planet" Nobody condones child labour and where it exists action needs to be taken. Presumably you are eferring to cobalt mining which is certainly present in EV batteries as it is in our phone battereies and numerous other applications including catalysts on ICE cars. All mining has an effect on the environment, not just Lithium or Cobalt. Look at the effects of open cast coal mining for example or oil shale extraction in Canada "in the not so distant future . How long will each battery last 5/10 years and how will it be recycled , and how about the cost of replacement" At least ten years, probably considerabley longer based on current experience . How long does the average ICE car engine last? Recycling of batteries is already a thing tinyurl.com/2p87ddz7 |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 07:26
EV charging - Dog
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>>based on current experience Like it :) |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 07:58
EV charging - Zero
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Frankly, I don't give a rats about the planet. I have few years left on it to matter, certainly fewer for my behaviour to change anything. End of the world? out of site out of mind. As far as transport goes, convenience and flexibility matters to me. Currently EV fails on both. If I need enjoyment, I'll buy meself a cheap semi classic if and when the missing two factors are resolved. Last edited by: Zero on Sat 1 Apr 23 at 07:59
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Sat 1 Apr 23 08:11
EV charging - Lygonos
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Cobalt has been used for yonks in petrol refining, noone cares about that, or their disposable phones. EV batteries are heading to cobalt-free (Lithium Iron Phosphate LiFePO/LFP) is increasingly common (standard range Tesla models use LFP now). Switching from lithium to sodium is feasible and I think BYD are starting to market sodium-ion cells (presumably not as good for energy density as lithium ones). EVs drive beautifully and don't stink up urban air. There is so much amazing chemistry we can do with crude oil - burnimg it to propel vehicles is not the smartest. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 09:00
EV charging - CGNorwich
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>> >> As far as transport goes, convenience and flexibility matters to me. Currently EV fails on >> both. If I need enjoyment, I'll buy meself a cheap semi classic if and when >> the missing two factors are resolved. Which is of course just fine. Strangely I enjoy my car for the same reasons, convenience and flexibility and it’s fun to drive. What I don’t understand is this hate EVs and EV drivers thing. You do get a bit tired of hearing and reading the same old drivel quoting “facts” that could be checked with a couple of minutes on Google. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 09:58
EV charging - Runfer D'Hills
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I suppose where I am is something like this, I do sort of get it that we have a responsibility to take better care of the planet and should try to. I think it’s probably good that we should encourage the development and use of new greener vehicles. But, I dislike the penalties now being applied to the use of existing vehicles that met the criteria of manufacturing at the time they were made and originally sold. By a process of wear and tear they will eventually disappear or become such a small part of the vehicular population as to eventually become insignificant while providing mobility for those who use them for their intended purposes. In other words, making sure that the next generation of vehicles is less polluting is good, but accepting that there is a transition period during which the older ones should be permitted to be used without additional penalties. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 10:30
EV charging - smokie
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"transition period" That'd be nice but I believe that we are already moving too slowly so some "encouragement" to change is necessary, not least as it would hopefully help people realise we are heading towards a major catastrophe for the planet. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 10:42
EV charging - zippy
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>> "transition period" >> >> That'd be nice but I believe that we are already moving too slowly so some >> "encouragement" to change is necessary, not least as it would hopefully help people realise we >> are heading towards a major catastrophe for the planet. >> We are, and the little we are doing is like peeing in the ocean. It's the likes of China and India that need to bring their pollution under control and they seem to be decades behind us. And of course they are never going to be as green. I recall reading, a few years ago now, that to give everyone the same power consumption of a citizen of the USA then the world would need to build a new nuclear power station every week for decades. Of course, there just isn't enough of the rare materials on the planet to do this. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 10:50
EV charging - sooty123
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there is a transition period during which the older ones should >> be permitted to be used without additional penalties. >> It'll be a while yet, perhaps 10 years before useful EV get well into the used car market. Current brand new ones are perhaps useful now but too expensive for many. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 11:17
EV charging - Rudedog
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And there seems to be this ignoring of the population who are only able to run a reliable £1-2k car or the new drivers who traditionally drive something cheap as their first car. I still hear green promoters on the radio saying that it's 'no problem you can now get an EV for as little as £20k so there's no reason not to change'... it's this type of comment that winds people up ignoring the real life families who run their 'one grand bangers' out of necessity. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 11:49
EV charging - smokie
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That would be a stupid thing to say without further qualification. However the EV market is still new, and the second hand market is already developing. What's the alternative? The government hands out new EVs to anyone who can't afford one? Half of the problem is those who simply say an EV is not for them, and/or put about teh scare stories about them. Wait till they feel a nice bit of global warming on their backs, or see an influx of people from lands no longer able to sustain life. (In fact I sometimes wonder if that's partly a minor subconscious factor in the minds of those who are fleeing their country) |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 13:14
EV charging - sooty123
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> However the EV market is still new, and the second hand market is already developing. >> What's the alternative? The government hands out new EVs to anyone who can't afford one? > Patience, it'll happen but many haven't the means to change over that quickly. That goes for many of the green initiatives. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 09:25
EV charging - Zero
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>> (In fact I sometimes wonder if that's partly a minor >> subconscious factor in the minds of those who are fleeing their country) Wonder no longer. Its not. They want to come to a richer 1st world country and enjoy the consumerism that drives global warming. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 18:02
EV charging - CGNorwich
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>> And there seems to be this ignoring of the population who are only able to >> run a reliable £1-2k car or the new drivers who traditionally drive something cheap as >> their first car. >> Why would a move to electric vehicles diminish the supply of old cars? There will be plenty of old ICE vehicles available for the foreseeable future and an increasing number of old EVs Reslly not a problem. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 23:07
EV charging - CGNorwich
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“but accepting that there is a transition period during which the older ones should be permitted to be used without additional penalties.” That would be fine if it was not a fact that air pollution in cities kills people. It would be a hard argument to accept if your child died as a consequence of air pollution which the government had done nothing to reduce. |
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Mon 3 Apr 23 09:09
EV charging - Runfer D'Hills
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Membership of this particular moral high ground club comes at a price. I can afford the fees now, but my memory is not so faded as to not be able to remember a time when the use of an inexpensive vehicle allowed me to attend to the rather more pressing need to feed and shelter my family. Of course we should be working towards lowering pollutants in whatever ways we can, but let’s do it in ways that don’t confer that pressure on the least well off. Regulate new vehicles by all means, but don’t penalise the old ones which were bought in good faith of their suitability for purpose when new. They will, by a process of becoming obsolete, disappear in time anyway. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 13:44
EV charging - Duncan
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>> I have few years left on >> it to matter, certainly fewer for my behaviour to change anything. End of the world? >> out of sight out of mind. I more or less agree with Zero. I never thought I would type those words. The really strange thing is that I don't feel any different. |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 15:05
EV charging - Robin O'Reliant
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>> >> I have few years left on >> >> it to matter, certainly fewer for my behaviour to change anything. End of the >> world? >> >> out of sight out of mind. >> >> I more or less agree with Zero. >> Me too. No offspring, probably in my last decade so WTF. And some very good points about climate change here - youtu.be/Mbdp51O0J6Q |
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Sat 1 Apr 23 22:50
EV charging - Terry
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To judge from this thread it is evident the debate about climate change, its impacts, and responses has nothing to do with science. One attitude is summarised - I won't be around, don't want my current lifestyle disrupted, probably won't affect me, feel no obligation towards future generations. This has zero to do with science and all to do with self interest. The alternative attitude is a belief in science and a sense of obligation to future generations. The scientific argument is defensible, the obligation is a personal emotional response. Governments make and enforce the rules. One side or the other will be seriously disappointed with the outcome. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 07:20
EV charging - Duncan
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>> One attitude is summarised - I won't be around, don't want my current lifestyle disrupted, >> probably won't affect me, feel no obligation towards future generations. This has zero to do >> with science and all to do with self interest. >> >> The alternative attitude is a belief in science and a sense of obligation to future >> generations. The scientific argument is defensible, the obligation is a personal emotional response. The present rate of growth in the population - both the world and the UK is unsustainable in the long term. Do you accept that? Yes or no? If you agree, then what are you going to do about it? Brave men with guns? Compulsory sterilisation? Removal of benefits from those having more than 2 children? One to one discussions with individuals who transgress? What? |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 08:11
EV charging - Lygonos
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None of the above Duncan. Educate girls and young women. Promote societies where women have careers. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 08:48
EV charging - Bromptonaut
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>> Do you accept that? Yes or no? No I do not so far as the UK is concerned. >>Removal of benefits from those having more than 2 children? One to We already have a two child rule which has been in place since 2017: www.gov.uk/guidance/claiming-benefits-for-2-or-more-children It's not done much of what it was intended to so far as the fecundity of 'single mums' is concerned. It does though impoverish people who had children when they could afford them and now cannot due to issues beyond their control like relationship breakdown or chronic illness. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 09:16
EV charging - Duncan
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>> No I do not so far as the UK is concerned. The UK's population has increased by over 50% in the last 80 years, but you think that is sustainable? >> We already have a two child rule which has been in place since 2017: >> >> www.gov.uk/guidance/claiming-benefits-for-2-or-more-children >> >> It's not done much of what it was intended to ... Well, is there a problem? Is there a potential problem? Or is there no problem? Lygonos advocates a policy of educating women. Well, please forgive me, but good luck with that. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 09:16
EV charging - sooty123
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> If you agree, then what are you going to do about it? Brave men with >> guns? Compulsory sterilisation? Removal of benefits from those having more than 2 children? One to >> one discussions with individuals who transgress? What? >> If you think it's an issue, what do you think we should do? |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 09:27
EV charging - Duncan
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>> If you think it's an issue, what do you think we should do? >> I think education hasn't worked and won't work. The feckless can't/won't be educated and they are precisely the people who shouldn't be having children. Longer term, I think perhaps we need a few crises to make the population and government to sit up and take notice. Perhaps in a few hundred years time, or so, it will be the end of the human race as we know it. l can assure I don't lay awake at night worrying about it. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 09:49
EV charging - sooty123
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So you don't think much can be done. >> I can assure I don't lay awake at night worrying about it. I feel assured. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 09:23
EV charging - Zero
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>> The present rate of growth in the population - both the world and the UK >> is unsustainable in the long term. Duncan, we have an ageing population, soon there will not be enough working young people to pay your pension, or serve you beer at spoons...... |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 09:32
EV charging - Duncan
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>> Duncan, we have an ageing population, soon there will not be enough working young people >> to pay your pension, or serve you beer at spoons...... >> Which is precisely why we should/must grasp the nettle. If an ageing population means a shrinking population, then we must hold our nerve. I can guarantee that a majority of administrations around the world will not have the fortitude to oversee a shrinking population. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 10:13
EV charging - Terry
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“Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die”. Source: This phrase has its origins in 1 Kings 4:20, Isaiah 22:13 and Luke 12:19" There are a lot of reasons why the end is nigh: - unsustainable population growth - consumption of finite resources - degradation of the global environment - the implausibility of governments acting together and in time If humanity fatalistically assumes that no action can avert a forthcoming meltdown, then the end is assured. Making an effort, however late, may produce a better outcome. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 11:54
EV charging - Biggles
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| 'Vivamus, moriendum est', Seneca the Elder. |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 12:14
EV charging - Duncan
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>> 'Vivamus, moriendum est', Seneca the Elder. >> "Let us live. for we must die". "The brighter a fire glows, the sooner it goes out". |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 13:12
EV charging - Zero
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| Ego dont assis facis |
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Sun 2 Apr 23 19:51
EV charging - Robin O'Reliant
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| Whatever we do about climate change, I don't give much for our chances of reaching the end of the century without someone pushing the Big Red Button. We've come close enough times in the past. |
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