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I love the style of these Vauxhalls - so 1970s. But I wouldn't want to drive it!
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Nice looking car. I can remember an older cousin buying a Vauxhall Ventora in the early ‘70s. Which as kids we thought was a rather splendid thing. Similar colour to that I think, with a black vinyl roof.
As above though, I’d imagine anything like that would be disappointing to drive by modern standards.
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Come to think, that same cousin went from an 850 Mini to that Ventora. I guess that must have felt like quite a different car.
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Father of a lad I was friends with from primary school had a Ventora Estate (or maybe a Victor) which had a 3.3litre straight 6 engine. Ex cop car previously with the East Riding's Police before they merged into Humberside.
The dad worked for the BBC and often had tickets for, or attended in a technical role, various shows. Remember one or two occasions going over to Manchester in that car and hitting 100mph on the M62. Before seatbelts had to be worn and although they were required to be fitted from the late sixties only for front seats.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 8 Feb 23 at 09:23
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One for Derek (Bangers and Cash)
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The only Vauxhall I have ever fancied wasnt even a Vauxhall. The Opel Manta coupe.
Oopps no I lie, Possibly Vauxhall droop snoot. www.flickriver.com/photos/tristartech/52334224183/
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This thread about old Vauxhalls brings back a memory.
A lifetime ago, my first “proper” job involved me and two other likely lads being recruited on the same day by a large company as graduate entry management trainees.
It was at a time when it seemed that everyone whose job was graded above that of an office cleaner got issued with a company car.
The then fleet manager was a cynical old ex-army type who greeted us with some commentary about how he knew we were almost certainly going to drive them like blankety blanks. So, he had arranged for us to have some training at a racing circuit so that at least we might drive them like partially informed blankety blanks.
The training day involved being sent repeatedly around Snetterton race track with an instructor in Vauxhall Chevette Ecosses, which were, at the time seen as fairly sporty things.
We had to get down to lap times within a ten percent margin of a time set by the instructor.
Having got through that bit, they put overinflated racing slicks on the back (driven) wheels while keeping treaded road tyres on the front. This of course made the cars ludicrously loose at the back.
In this set up we were then put on the skid pan in the Chevettes and had to learn how to control the cars around that and again, get close to a target lap time.
In fairness it was great fun, and I suppose I/we probably learned a few tricks that in my case anyway, have occasionally proven very useful especially when dealing with slippery conditions.
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In the 1970s there were a lot of young driver deaths on Sweden's snow & ice covered winter roads.
Training was organized to improve the youngsters' driving on snow, ice etc etc
This resulted in a dramatic increase in young driver deaths.
Buoyed by the young drivers' new found confidence after a few hours training the youngsters drove more recklessly than before the training with tragic results for many families.
The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again!
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That's an unintended consequence I would have expected, TBH.
There are exceptions, with names like Carlsson and Vatanen, but I don't want a driver who thinks he can control the car on the limit. I want one who's good enough not to get into that situation in the first place. Same for pilots.
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>> In the 1970s there were a lot of young driver deaths on Sweden's snow &
>> ice covered winter roads.
>>
>> Training was organized to improve the youngsters' driving on snow, ice etc etc
>>
>> This resulted in a dramatic increase in young driver deaths.
>>
>> Buoyed by the young drivers' new found confidence after a few hours training the youngsters
>> drove more recklessly than before the training with tragic results for many families.
>>
>> The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again!
>>
The same happened when I was a driving instructor. The powers that be one day decided that test candidates had to drive at the NSL "When safe to do so" where as previously someone doing 50 in a 60 limit was deemed to have maintained a reasonable speed. The problem was that new drivers were convinced they could handle a car at the speed limit despite their lack of experience in reading the road and the conditions. The number of former pupils (Almost all male) who had high speed write offs in the first few months of receiving a full licence became a test centre topic among instructors.
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>> The problem was that new drivers were convinced they could handle a
>> car at the speed limit despite their lack of experience in reading the road and
>> the conditions. The number of former pupils (Almost all male) who had high speed write
>> offs in the first few months of receiving a full licence became a test centre
>> topic among instructors.
Yup. Youth, arrogance and ignorance with a seasoning of testosterone.
It was tyre squeal in my Mother's Mini 850, less than 48 hours after passing the test, that taught me that the max speed for taking a local 90 degree left turn was considerably less than the signed 30. Older and bigger car and not FWD and I'd have fetched up in the car park or public bar of the pub on the outside of the bend.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 8 Feb 23 at 21:43
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Well now, I wouldn’t claim any specialist knowledge about how to measure these things, but if pressed, I would probably say that the extra training I did way back then did and has helped me a bit anyway, to be safer. If 40 odd years and 1.6M miles of driving since, in all manner of vehicles, weather conditions and countries without hitting anything at all other than one loose kerbstone in Herne Bay 7 years ago is anything to go by. ;-)
Surely none of you are seriously saying that training someone to be safer and better is a negative thing? Taken to a preposterous extreme, that theory would support dumbing down driver training and testing wouldn’t it?
The skills I learned on that skid pan all those years ago have come in very handy on rare, but entirely pertinent occasions more than once.
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>>
>>
>> Surely none of you are seriously saying that training someone to be safer and better
>> is a negative thing? Taken to a preposterous extreme, that theory would support dumbing down driver training and testing wouldn’t it?
>>
>>
Nobody is suggesting that learning advanced skills is anything other than an advantage, Runfer. But they have to be taught when someone has the knowledge and experience to understand them and apply them correctly. Think of it like teaching someone to play snooker - trying to teach a novice who still has trouble pushing the cue smoothly and in a straight line to play a power shot using both side and reverse spin means a ripped cloth.
You have to master the basics first, the advanced stuff comes later.
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I reckon and no doubt others here will agree, the best driver training is to ride a motorbike before you ever get behind the wheel of a car. I was fortunate to have some excellent rider training when I was sixteen. Yes I came off a few times - usually a combination of 6V headlamp, wet road and manhole covers in the middle of bends, but it taught me a lot about observation, anticipation and the physics of grip and braking.
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>> I reckon and no doubt others here will agree, the best driver training is to
>> ride a motorbike
And, without a motor, one than you need to pedal.
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Yes, I can see that BT. On a similar note, riding a bicycle to and from school into a busy city centre from an early age teaches the advantages of discretion over valour in traffic. That didn’t always go well either but you fairly quickly learn to understand and mitigate your own vulnerability.
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>> The powers that be one day decided that test candidates had to drive at the NSL "When safe to do so"
That must have been about 20 years ago.
My son did exactly that on a 14' wide country road here, with bends, when I was supervising him. I told him 40 would be plenty, he corrected me saying his instructor had told him to drive at the limit!
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When I did my IAM course years ago I was recommended to ‘make progress’ when safe to do so. Don’t mimse. It causes talbacks and then some fellow drivers may be prone to take overtaking risks.
My IAM observer had an Octavia Vrs and an MX5. At the time I had the 330 convertible, so on one occasion we drove to a very quiet country road we both knew well and I was encouraged to give it the beans. I’m not going to post how fast we went.
So I don’t mimse, unless I’m enjoying the scenery and traffic is light.
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The first (company issued) “new” car I had was a 1978 Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1. Base model in flat custard yellow with a sort of tweedy tan and black interior. 1600ccs of pure nothing, 4 speed box and no radio.
However, despite all that, I loved it. It was way better than any of the old clunkers I’d had before. Even felt quite fast by my standards of the time. Now of course I’m certain it would be at best, disappointing to drive.
Edit- oh yes, the indicator stalk fell off within a week of having it!
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 9 Feb 23 at 09:32
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Further to above - No power steering, no ABS, no AC, no central locking, no stability/traction control, glow worm headlights etc etc.
How did we manage? ;-)
And yet, that thing regularly tooled happily back and forth from the UK to Switzerland and Italy on business trips (no sat nav either of course)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 9 Feb 23 at 09:45
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Vx Cavalier GL - I had one of these - it was a good car i.e. I was never stranded at the roadside due to the car breaking down.
It came to a sad end when I was at the highest point on the M8 - January heavy snow everywhere and instead of following Indian style a van driver decided to go into "the fast lane"
He lost control and pushed me into the 12/15 feet high wall on the west bound carriageway - IIRC the roof, boot lid and the passenger rear quarter were the only undamaged panels - he massacred the driver's side and the wall did the rest.
Good News was I was unhurt but it took 3 hours for the breakdown truck to haul me off (radiator burst).
The van driver had minimal front end damage and drove off after exchanging details..
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A GL eh?
Posh! Very posh!
Mine was an L, the badge itself being about the only extra it had!
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>> A GL eh?
>> Posh! Very posh!
>> Mine was an L, the badge itself being about the only extra it had!
>>
As was mine, I too loved that car. Rock solid and even today they look rather pretty.
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>> The first (company issued) “new” car I had was a 1978 Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1. Base
>> model in flat custard yellow with a sort of tweedy tan and black interior. 1600ccs
>> of pure nothing, 4 speed box and no radio.
>>
>> However, despite all that, I loved it.
Yeah, the Mk1 was a good looking car, far better than the backwards styling step that was the Mk2
The Mk1 still looks good today.
I had the choice of one, but opted for the Fiat 131 Mirafiori estate because it had a rev counter. Ah the stupid choices we make as youth.....
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Bet the Fiat was a fun drive though? Having said that, by the standards of the time, the Cav wasn’t at all bad. You could throw them around a bit.
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...I had a bright red '78 1600L two-door saloon. Despite it being essentially an Opel Ascona, the VX front redesign made it look a much more desirable car.
It took me on climbing trips to Germany and Austria, where the front-end treatment drew regular positive comments from those accustomed to the Ascona.
I remember the car with quite a bit of affection.
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>> I had the choice of one, but opted for the Fiat 131 Mirafiori estate because
>> it had a rev counter. Ah the stupid choices we make as youth.....
>>
My stupid choice as an 18-yr old youth involving Fiat 131 Mirafiori estates was agreeing to drive to the south of France in one with 3 mates for a camping holiday, where we met 12 other mates.
The holiday was great - 2 weeks on the beach in the French Riviera, during which Charles and Di got married and so we celebrated as only young Englishmen know how to!
But on the way back the car started playing up - basically the points (remember them?) were closing up and it wouldn't idle, but would rev. It was an autobox so we couldn't just rev it and slip the clutch to get it going.
We ended up being towed onto the ferry at Calais, and towed off the other end, to meet the RAC. But first Customs thought we were trying to dodge them and proceeded to strip the car looking for contraband! Nothing found, RAC fixed the car and we eventually got home.
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>> But first Customs thought we were trying to dodge them
>> and proceeded to strip the car
They probably put it back together better than the Turin workforce.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 9 Feb 23 at 17:40
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>> The first (company issued) “new” car I had was a 1978 Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1. Base
>> model in flat custard yellow with a sort of tweedy tan and black interior. 1600ccs
>> of pure nothing, 4 speed box and no radio.
>>
That sounds just like our neighbours' Cavalier when I was kid, and used to get ferried around in it. No radio meant that I could hear the clutch pedal spring on every gearchange!
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More senior people than me got Cavalier 2.0 GLs. I had the chance to drive one occasionally and it felt significantly faster. There were a couple of Cortinas after that Cavalier, but eventually I rose to the heady heights of being allowed a Capri 3.0S. Roman Bronze with gold wheels.
Double equipped canine analogies applied!
;-)
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My dad had a light blue Victor with a bench seat in the front (manual gear change on the floor!) - He boiught it nearly new and to be fair even I knew it was awful.
My first (and second car) was a Moggie 1000 - learnt a lot about RWD handling in a very tame little motor - stood me in good stead for later BMWs
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>> My dad had a light blue Victor with a bench seat in the front (manual
>> gear change on the floor!) - He boiught it nearly new and to be fair
>> even I knew it was awful.
Those we had were 'firm's cars' as part of my Dad's job. Up to at least the fourth, an FB series, the front seat was a bench and the gear lever was on the steering column. I cannot remember whether the FC 101 or the Simca was the first car we had with a floor change and two front seats.
The floor change on the Simca, acquired in 1966 with reg GBN 611D, was a mirror image of what's now regarded as standard having its first and second to the right and third fourth on the left. Something to do with it being a car that, in lower states of trim, had a column change.
The Vauxhalls, up to/including the FC series, were cars in which, if I were not very careful, I was as sick as a dog. Less so with the Simca. I suspect the key was that from that car on my head was high enough to be able to see out of the front/sides, though Dad being a carp driver proceeding in surges/stops didn't help. Even as wee kid I was far less prone to chunder if being driven by others.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 10 Feb 23 at 22:10
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My memory of the bench seat/gearstick seems to be right. This looks like an identical spec.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eaj8EA3_PAg
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>> My memory of the bench seat/gearstick seems to be right. This looks like an identical
>> spec.
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eaj8EA3_PAg
Sorry, my post from yesterday wasn't meant to be saying your memory was wrong. The Victors we had were FA-FD models, the last of which certainly had the change on the floor.
There was a trend over time that moved gear levers, at least with manual boxes, floor by default.
Never driven a column change car myself and the last I remember was in a Renault hired in France c1973.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 12 Feb 23 at 09:50
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My 2nd car had a bench seat plus column change - A cream Zephyr 4 MK 3 with leopard skin seat covers.
:o}
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One of the cars I learnt on was a Renault 16, massive front armchair seats, column change...bit of an upgrade from the Moggie
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My dad had a Zephyr 6 with a bench front seat when I was a small child. I can remember sitting on the folded down centre armrest between my parents so I could see out of the front window. Of course no one had a seatbelt.
Many a trip to and from Edinburgh to far flung destinations was completed like that.
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The last bench front seat car I went in was my ole man's MK2 Console 375, some time in the 60's
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.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 12 Feb 23 at 12:10
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My friend had a Mk1 Cortina with a bench seat and a column change. The gear linkage was shot to hell and only someone who drove the car every day had a hope of finding the correct gear. We left it outside a pub one night and when we came out it was parked on the pavement a hundred yards down the road where the thieves had given up and abandoned it.
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I hired a Bedford CA van when I got married in '71, that had a column change. My first and only ever experience of one. It was awful and I recall spending a lot of time in neutral looking for a gear - any gear. It was also only running on three cylinders, so I took it back at the first available opportunity to do a U turn. They removed the (non matching) spark plugs, one of which looked like it had been in there since Noah was a lad. It ran a bit better after that.
I did drive an early Renault five with the gear lever coming out of the dashboard. That felt perfectly natural. I wonder why the concept was abandoned?
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....I drove a hired LHD R4 in Morocco in 1980. It also had the "umbrella" gear lever.
Being LHD, it was left to the front seat passenger to change gear, as the driver declutched and shouted "now!".
(TBH, and I think I might have posted this before, I was most impressed with it as a vehicle for Moroccan roads, even though the tyres we virtually bare).
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>> I did drive an early Renault five with the gear lever coming out of the
>> dashboard. That felt perfectly natural. I wonder why the concept was abandoned?
IIRC it was a 'characteristic' of having the engine installed longitudinally rather than transversely. The 4 and 6 were similar. As with column changes there was a gradual move to floor change as one went up the trim range.
Mum replaced her Mini with a 5 in 1978. I think it was TL and was a four speed with a floor change.
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>> it was a 'characteristic' of having the engine installed longitudinally rather than transversely.
Yes, with the gearbox in front of the engine it made a very direct shift with a rod over the engine connecting with a gear stick straight up out of the box. The Renault 16, with same engine gearbox layout, but column shift, must have had a much more complex linkage, but then it was a more up market car.
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>> I did drive an early Renault five with the gear lever coming out of the
>> dashboard. That felt perfectly natural. I wonder why the concept was abandoned?
>>
Yes I find the gear lever coming out of the dashboard very easy to use on the 2CV and of course it keeps the centre clear for other uses. Interesting that Mercedes and some Citroens have reverted to column shifts for their automatics, so their market research must have shown that they’re popular. Now that most automatic gear-shifts are just electronic controls the gear-shift could be almost anywhere.
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>>My friend had a Mk1 Cortina with a bench seat and a column change
Cortinas were 4 speed, 2 front seats
Earlier Ford Capri/Consuls, Zephyrs were often column change, bench seat
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>> Cortinas were 4 speed, 2 front seats
>>
>> Earlier Ford Capri/Consuls, Zephyrs were often column change, bench seat
>>
This was definitely a Cortina. From memory it had a split front bench seat.
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>> This was definitely a Cortina. From memory it had a split front bench seat.
I'm getting confused now. Either it's a bench OR it's split into two surely?
The Victor in Pug's link upthread has a floor change and two seats but seems to still have the T shape 'umbrella handle' set up for the handbrake below and left of the steering column. The convention of a pull up lever between the front seats was not then fully set.
Another oddity with Vauxhall cars, before the mandatory fitting of a steering lock, was the facility to set the ignition/starter switch for keyless operation. Once done it would function without the key being inserted; just turn the chrome, later plastic, knob and off you go.
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>> >>
>>
>> I'm getting confused now. Either it's a bench OR it's split into two surely?
>>
>>
>>
I didn't put that very well. The car was a two door and it had a split backrest on the front bench seat.
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You've tweaked a memory Bromp. My father's car had a parking brake under the dash...the Renault had the brake on the right of the driver's seat (IIRC !). The Victor was very much unloved by my father....it had a problem with it's gear-box where as reverse was difficult to engage...I have an enduring memory of him engaging reverse and the car went forward...at the time he was looking back over his shouoder with his left arm across the back of the bench seat....! I rarely saw him angry....but he was a little bit cross when I laughed at the comedy of it...One of his best friends had a VX4/90 in the FE body, superb sounding engine and loads of switches and extra instruments....
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>> This was definitely a Cortina. From memory it had a split front bench seat.
>>
Historical pictures and accounts indicate that a bench seat and column change were an option, at least up to and including the MkII.
My memory is of a friend's father's car that was so equipped.
www.fordcortinamk2oc.co.uk/the-mkii-cortina/ (with pictures)
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I owned a Mark 1 Cortina - 2 front seats and four speed & handbrake in the middle.
Bench seat & Column change = handbrake coming out of the dash or on the floor on the driver's RHS.
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>> Bench seat & Column change = handbrake coming out of the dash or on the
>> floor on the driver's RHS.
Handbrake on the offside of the driver's seat was a Hillman thing too. After the last of the Victor Estate cars Dad had a Hunter with that set up.
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>>Handbrake on the offside of the driver's seat was a Hillman thing too.
A30/35 as well. Perhaps A40 too, but I can't remember.
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Rio Tinto used Pug 404 bakkies as dept runarounds at a place I worked at in Namibia. The clamp holding the splined column change linkage would rattle itself loose with monotonous regularity driving on corrugated dirt roads leaving you with just 3rd and 4th gear. The easy fix would have been to adjust it correctly then put a tack weld between clamp and link but the vehicle workshop wouldn't do that for some reason.
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Vauxhall - Pristine 1974 Vx Victor with 86 miles on the clock - Boxsterboy
