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Not got time to watch - getting another free tankful at work.
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>> Not got time to watch - getting another free tankful at work.
>>
I am a real fan of electric vehicles, but drive a mild hybrid due to initial costs and lets be honest, the uptake of electric vehicles in the UK is driven by company car drivers who get huge tax allowances compared to petrol and diesel vehicles. Many ordinary folk can not afford a £50k Tesla.
My company car scheme does have Teslas and similar but the required top up contribution doesn't make sense.
The video seems very balanced. It is for electric vehicles, but with a more limited range as CO2 output in the manufacturing of electric vehicles and especially larger electric vehicle batteries leads to a higher overall CO2 output over 180k miles than a petrol vehicle.
(Most cars in the UK are scraped at <180k miles so the figures are probably more relevant.)
He suggests that a mix of technologies is the way forward.
So Dr, if your vehicle is not charged from 100% renewable sources and it is not going to cover 180k miles, it is likely that the CO2 output is going to be higher than the equivalent petrol vehicle.
As to the generation of electricity, green power is initially more expensive than more traditional means and many poorer countries will not be able to afford billions in infrastructure changes when they have existing, if dirty power production.
Nuclear power in every country is a pipe dream. There is insufficient rare and exotic materials in the world to meet the world wide demand.
IHMO, the way to go was the Vauxhall Ampera and BMW I3 type hybrids and I kick myself for not buying (not quick enough) a BMW I3 with engine for £18k in 2016 when BMW dumped a number with less than 1000 miles on the clock.
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" lets be honest, the uptake of electric vehicles in the UK is driven by company car drivers "
That may be true of the upper, more expensive end of the market but the forums I frequent with my lower end EV (and previously the Ampera) have very few company car owners on.
An EV will comfortably cover 180k miles, many have, as there are so many fewer parts than an ICE to go wrong.
I've not watched the video and I don't doubt it is probably very convincing and probably has some truths in it but these days I tend to avoid being swayed too much by a single item I read or watch.
Whichever way you look at it, ICE cars are undesirable for the plant and the EV as we know it is the next step in it's evolution into something we can all like. Some people are managing to overcome their long-held deeply-entrenched views on EVs and are quite pleasantly surprised by how convenient, quiet, smooth, economical etc they are compared to ICE. One can't go round all the time making excuses like "it's not for me, not yet, until the range improves". We ned to adapt.
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hat may be true of the upper, more expensive end of the market but the
>> forums I frequent with my lower end EV (and previously the Ampera) have very few
>> company car owners on.
>>
I think he means those owners that have new cars shape the market. Second hand car owners generally don't.
>One can't go round all the time making excuses like "it's not for
>> me, not yet, until the range improves". We ned to adapt.
>>
I think range isn't an issue, but affordability with that range is.
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>> " lets be honest, the uptake of electric vehicles in the UK is driven by
>> company car drivers "
>>
>> That may be true of the upper, more expensive end of the market but the
>> forums I frequent with my lower end EV (and previously the Ampera) have very few
>> company car owners on.
Lets be honest, if you are on a company car scheme, you aint going to be trawling the milk float end of the market now are you.
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>We ned to adapt.
That's lots of adapters we'll need then.
PS.
Silicon anode batteries empty to full in ten minutes and maintain 93% of capacity after 1000 charge cycles.
www.theregister.com/2022/06/14/silicon_anode_ev_battery/
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Coincidentally I've been reading my Porsche magazine and they have a big section on how they are going to go forward on hydrogen based eFuels as well as EVs, so they look like they will still be producing ICE cars after 2030 but just not ones burning petrol or diesel.
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The Taycan is a fantastic piece of kit (albeit £80k+).
As far as sporty EVs goes Porsche are top runners just now.
Hydrogen is still a nonsense fuel or base stock, and I doubt it will be much different in a decade.
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>> Hydrogen is still a nonsense fuel
HGVs will be running on it.
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>>HGVs will be running on it.
Perhaps if Little England allows onshore wind (the cheapest form of electricity production) to proliferate - about the only sensible way to make 'green' hydrogen is with wind power than is more than the Grid requires, since it can't be stored.
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Well from what I read they seem to be investing big time in plants located in Chile to produce green hydrogen to turn into synthetic fuels to continue to run in new ICE cars and classics plus motorsport, also linking up with BMW and Siemens.
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>>An EV will comfortably cover 180k miles
My local, BBC radio station consumer program had a customer whose EV battery tested at 69.5 capacity after they noticed a reduction in range. It was less than six years old and as the warranty criteria was for 70% after six years, the dealer agreed to replace the battery gratis. When the car was in the dealers, they claimed the battery tested at 70.5% capacity. This bounced backwards and forwards, until the manufacturer agreed to have the battery replaced (I wonder how much BBC involvement decided them?)
The customer stated a new battery would cost £5K!
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>>>When the car was in the dealers, they claimed the battery tested at 70.5%<<<
What you missed out in your precis was that 69.5% was in a winter month, the non qualifying 70.5% was tested in warmer times. The mistake the garage made was that they promised the customer a replacement based on the first test.
Smart move by the manufacturer to delay availability of a new battery by several months?
Cynical, moi?
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I had to have an ICE engine replaced at about 30k miles, Ford Mondeo 2.0
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>> I had to have an ICE engine replaced at about 30k miles, Ford Mondeo 2.0
>>
I was surprised to find that Ford (and others) takes the replaced engines back and gets them refurbished by a subcontractor (the subcontractor wanted a loan). The refurbished engines are then sent out to replace other failed engines. It's very green.
The company is looking to do the same with batteries and electronics.
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>> What you missed out in your precis was that 69.5% was in a winter month,
>> the non qualifying 70.5% was tested in warmer times. The mistake the garage made was >>that they promised the customer a replacement based on the first test.
I can't say about timescales, as I don't know. I got the impression that there was only a couple of weeks between tests.
Did you hear the broadcast?
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I heard the original broadcast, JVS has a habit of editing and replaying the edited clips in later programs - perhaps you heard a redacted version? From memory, ( possibly not very reliable!), I thought that it was February for initial test, and May/June for the later. JVS made a comment about battery capacity improving in hot weather.
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>> I heard the original broadcast, JVS has a habit of editing and replaying the edited
>> clips in later programs - perhaps you heard a redacted version?
Ok. Who or what is JVS? Howze about a link to the original radio? programme?
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I think it's some chap on the Northamptonshire/Bedfordshire local radio. I can't remember his name though, looks about 50 but sounds like he's 80.
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Vernon-smith, something like that.
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I'd never heard of him but a quick google gives you www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p001xfs2
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That's him i think; annoying voice, puts on a bit of a performance as a know it all.
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>> I'd never heard of him but a quick google gives you www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p001xfs2
>>
That's the one. He does seem to sort out some folk's problems. He does an hour and half of his programme on consumer problems (there's twenty minutes of it worth listening to).
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The customer stated a new battery would cost £5K!
>>
A new engine in a dealers would be about that wouldn't it?
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>> Not got time to watch - getting another free tankful at work. charge that someone else is paying for
There fixed that for you.
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>> Not got time to watch - getting another free tankful at work. charge that someone else is paying for
>>There fixed that for you.
Welcome to Boris's Britain
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 17 Jun 22 at 13:39
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I did watch most of it.
As usual with these presentations, numbers seem skewed to fit the preconceived answer - eg: assuming CO2 emissions are based on the global balance between green and carbon based generation, not those likely in developed nations with a commitment to green energy production.
It also assumes that to be competitive EVs need a 400 mile range similar to ICE - presumably based on a US need. The UK requirement would be very different for most where 400 miles equates to 2 weeks average motoring - fast recharging on longer journeys is the key need.
In summary - largely garbage!!
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The myth that is taking root is that EV's are cheaper. The only reason they are cheaper with electricity at 30p/kWh is subsidies.
The pre-tax cost of electricity at 4 miles per kWh is about the same as for petrol at 45-50mpg.
The whole EV thing is predicated on lots of renewable electricity which we haven't got. Given the fungibility of electricity and the low likelihood of it being taxed anywhere near the level of liquid motor fuel, I imagine road pricing is a given.
Like the subsidies given for solar PV, the whole racket up to this point has been a scheme for transferring money from poorer people to better off ones.
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> The whole EV thing is predicated on lots of renewable electricity which we haven't got.
Yet. The amount of building in North Sea of turbines suggests they'll be much higher by 2030.
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Energy required to move a vehicle is a function (mainly) of aerodynamics and weight. It matters little whether the energy source is electric or diesel/petrol. EVs may typically use a little more energy due to weight of batteries.
Generating and transmitting electricity consumes energy, but electric motors are very efficient in turning KW into motion. ICE are typically ~30-40% efficient in turning diesel/petrol into motion. Overall there may be little difference in overall efficiency or cost before tax.
The difference in local emissions is obvious. If all electricity were generated using fossil fuels, the impact of EVs would just be to shift emissions from point of use to generation. However increasing green energy means generation may use little or no fossil fuels.
I fully expect road pricing to follow. The transition to EV seems entirely sensible and inevitable. IMHO it is not a way to transfer wealth from the poor to the already wealthy - without initial favourable tax treatment it would never happen.
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>>Overall there may be little difference in overall efficiency or cost before tax.
And consumers with their foot/hand on the power (fossil or renewable) don't use it efficiently/effectively either.
There are efficiency losses in conventional generation, powerline transmission and distribution, and charging (the power you get out of a battery is less than the power you put in). Charging efficiency in general drops at higher charging rates which is unfortunate.
I'm not saying it can't be done or shouldn't be done, but it is an enormous task to replace oil and gas. And the amount of land required, especially for onshore wind power, is not trivial.
The role of insulation is neglected. I can see why people are gluing themselves to things.
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"And consumers with their foot/hand on the power (fossil or renewable) don't use it efficiently/effectively either."
It's pretty much an obsession amongst many on the EV forums I visit to continually be trying to maximise "mpg", and almost gets competitive.
"Charging efficiency in general drops at higher charging rates which is unfortunate."
I'm genuinely not sure about that - the fastest chargers lower their delivery rate ( - I suppose the car must be in control of it - ) once the %age full gets over 80%, to protect the batteries, so it becomes much slower but presumably that takes less power. I've still not used them but I believe some of the fastest (CCS) chargers just stop charging once 80% is reached. Certainly many EV drivers using public chargers don't ever charge about 80% and aim to top up once it reaches about 20% (due to fear of running out if planned chargers are broken or whatever).
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>> the fastest chargers lower their delivery rate ( - I suppose the car must be in control of it - ) once the %age full gets over 80%, to protect the batteries, so it becomes much slower but presumably that takes less power.
I literally meant efficiency - (kWh in)/(kWh out). Not speed.
We once had a boat with a BMS, that basically told us how many amp hours were left in the 12V (lead acid) battery bank. It did this by measuring power in and power out. There was a setting for charging efficiency, we used 90% which seemed about right.
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>> It's pretty much an obsession amongst many on the EV forums
Its call range anxiety.
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>> "Charging efficiency in general drops at higher charging rates which is unfortunate."
>>
>> I'm genuinely not sure about that -
Its physics. High current applications are less efficient, (usually in the form of wasting it as heat) unless extreme physical precautions are taken. These mean 1/ more undesirable weight, and 2/cost.
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There is no real time barrier to brimming an ICE tank (another 30 secs holding the pump), but ICE motorists should normally fill up before finding a forecourt becomes critical.
Probably somewhere below a quarter full, not 20 miles after the warning light has made its presence known if they have any sense.
An EV with (say) 250 miles range from full prudently needs a recharge every 150-200 miles (a) to avoid risk of a flat battery, and (b) whether recharge is full to 100% or fast to 80%.
Whether this is a real barrier to ownership is questionable. I am fortunate to be able to recharge at home, but once or twice a month a 200 mile effective range would be a real constraint. So no EV for me until a fast charging network is both widely available and reasonably priced.
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Many people (me included) rarely journey more than 200 miles in a day. It is so cheap to charge at home (currently costs me about £3 for a "tankful", 250 miles on a good day) that I'd never choose to charge away from home if I could - but if I did, the most expensive superfast chargers that I know of are a bit over 50p (I think) so that'd be something a bit over £30 which I gather, is at least comparable with petrol at about £8.60 a gallon. But then you offset it against the many more miles done on the £3 tankfuls and it really doesn't matter if you have to pay top dollar once in a while.
Most of the time the car is filled up while I sleep, with no queuing. It can be filled to 100% more safely on a home charger. I tend to top it up whenever it reaches about 55% as I can just about fill it from there in my 4 hour cheap leccy window.
My understanding is that the network of fast chargers is building fairly quickly - and Tesla have recently opened their sites to non-Tesla cars which is handy (though they are one of the most expensive).
I don't see why a 200 mile range is a constraint. Your journey probably takes a little more planning and time, that's all.
When I go to Edinburgh in Aug I'll need to stop twice on the way - but as we're doing an overnight one of those will a painless charge while I sleep/eat/whatever. I'm thinking the other will be close to Edinburgh so I arrive in town fairly full. Charge up before leaving then maybe one long stop (probably lunchtime) and a splash and dash on the way back. Hardly impactful really.
I'm doing some theoretical workings out using an app to see how much worse 75mph would be than 65mph - so far the door to door times are pretty similar, so I'm planning to not do it the slow way, which quite a few would - I prefer to feel like I'm "making progress" when on a motorway.
Driving an EV is such a quiet, smooth and pleasant experience that it'd be hard for me to go back to an ICE car now :-)
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The range thing is perhaps less of a problem for most people than they imagine. A 200 mile trip is normally around four hours of driving. For me that would normally merit a stop Having to stop for a coffee and half hour break from the road does not constitute much of an issue.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 18 Jun 22 at 19:16
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Colleague recently got a Nissan Leaf brand new with the reduced capacity battery.
Think it means realistically on a long motorway journey he would be stopping every two hours or so to charge it again.
That would do my head in!!
And the other thing, once there is a swing from ICE to electric enough to seriously impact the Billions in tax the Govt take on fuel, they will then just add this to electric in some way to keep that income going.
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>> And the other thing, once there is a swing from ICE to electric enough to
>> seriously impact the Billions in tax the Govt take on fuel, they will then just
>> add this to electric in some way to keep that income going.
>>
Um. Yes. I think that in basic terms, that is more or less how it works.
Do you have an alternative proposal?
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VAT and Duty on fuel is currently £35-40bn pa.
As EV usage increases this will decline and the government will need to replace it. They could simply increase National Insurance or Income Tax, but I suspect motoring will be the target to:
- encourage other forms of transport - public, walk, bike etc
- recognise the cost to society of roads and other societal costs of transport
The only real question is how they collect the tax - most likely a cost per mile charge using sensors linked to GPS data or possibly road sensors. The only issues are whether it is flexed depending on time of day, type of road, type/size o vehicle, whether there is a tax free annual mileage allowance, etc.
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Do you have an alternative proposal?
>>
Income tax?
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>> Um. Yes. I think that in basic terms, that is more or less how it
>> works.
>>
>> Do you have an alternative proposal?
How the tax is imposed is the crucial thing. How do you physically ensure a EV owner is taxed for charging his car, and not for heating his home? How do you ensure tax is pro rata for use?
Its all going to move to road use charging, for sure.
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"How do you physically ensure a EV owner is taxed for charging his car, and not for heating his home? "
That's nearly underway now (in fact I think it is live rather than piloting), with smart home EVSEs which report back to the electricity company how much electricity was used during a charge. So charge by usage - kinda like petrol in a way :-)
This also allows the electricity supplier to deliver the power at the time of their choosing (which you can override), so at a time when the grid is underused and the power is cheapest - which benefits everyone.
That doesn't help much with granny chargers though.
And there will undoubtedly be a kickback when existing owners are suddenly faced with massively increased bills for fuel (I mean for tax take rather than the increases they are currently seeing), and the cost of a new EVSE.
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>>
>> And the other thing, once there is a swing from ICE to electric enough to
>> seriously impact the Billions in tax the Govt take on fuel, they will then just
>> add this to electric in some way to keep that income going.
>>
Don't forget the serious sums lost in BIK due to the low rates for electric company car drivers. It must be several million a year from my employer alone.
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I think there's more money to be had chasing some of Boris's and the Tory chums for their "avoided" personal and corporate wealth :-)
How many millions was it from Rishi wife alone?
But "ordinary people" are easer pickings....
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The cost per mile for ICE is ~20p per mile assuming £9 per gallon and 45mpg.
The cost for electric is ~9p per mile based on 28p per kwh (more at fast charge privately operated locations) and 3-4 miles per kw.
The difference crudely makes sense - about half the price at the forecourt is VAT and duty.
Tax revenues from ICE will decline over the next 10-20 years until scrapped - most by 2040.
I would not expect tax on EV to be ratcheted up quickly - it would alienate existing EV owners, and reduce take up of new EVs.
At a guess - the framework and technology for taxing new vehicles sold will be put in place by 2024/5. New EV sold after that will initially have a tax of perhaps 2-4p tax per mile. This will increase progressively to ~5-7p by 2030, with a full rate of ~8-12p by 2033.
Does it matter - not much for most folk. Any purchasing decision only need have regard for the duration of ownership - typically 2-4 years. What happens after that is unimportant - any replacement need only reflect expectations at the time.
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Just to spannerise the numbers mine regens like the billy-o, but seamlessly enough not to notice.
Anyway, that means I just drove back from Scotland. 380 miles. Started with a full battery (and a full tank of petrol) with 31 miles range in it. End of journey, it's telling me I did 97 miles zero emission.
No idea what the cost of those extra 66 miles was, or even how to work it out.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Sun 19 Jun 22 at 16:26
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Increase VED for all cars (ICE/BEV/Fuel cell hahahahaha) to £1000pa.
How you fuel it is up to you.
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That would solve some of the problem - e.g. where people have really low usage second cars but their wives won't let them go. E.G. me. :-)
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>> That would solve some of the problem - e.g. where people have really low usage
>> second cars but their wives won't let them go. E.G. me. :-)
>>
+1
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To replace fuel tax the only real answer is to go to some sort of road pricing. Ideally that would mean some sort of metering of total distance covered but That would be difficult to implement so I suspect they will go forward a toll system on motorways and A roads. Tolls would utilise ANPR as at the Dartford crossing. Collection and avoidance will be big problems though.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 19 Jun 22 at 20:29
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All the current upgrades to smart motorways includes infrastructure (cabling etc) for smart charging doesn't it?
IIRC much charging in the US and elsewhere is done by transponder mounted on your windscreen, being read by overhead or roadside equipment. They must have already overcome the issues of non-payment etc. We are not he first by a long chalk!
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 19 Jun 22 at 21:07
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Enforcement is almost wholly down to policing.
In the UK ~700,000 cars are untaxed and on the road. Add those without MoT and insurance and the number of "illegal" vehicles probably exceeds a million - about 1 in 30!
ANPR with police vehicles to stop offenders would pick up hundreds a day - resources permitting!
Example close to me - the A38 is a fairly modest two way "A" road running parallel to the M5 and carries ~8000 vehicles per day in each direction.
It is likely the same vehicles using the road each day - school run, commuting, shopping etc. . If 3% were apprehended there would be ~200-250 probably by the end of the first week.
If the consequence of being caught were vehicle confiscation until fines were paid, the problem of "illegal" vehicles would vanish within weeks!
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Sorry just can't see it in the 'gun states' or deep south, I wonder what discount you'd get in Auz where you have no choice but to drive 100"s of Kms just to live.
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I think it'll be politically difficult to bring in road pricing, it'd be like ID cards all over again. Easier to raise all the other taxes a bit i suspect.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 19 Jun 22 at 22:08
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Just have VED for all vehicles, including electric. Play tunes with where you pitch it, discount for electrics, part discount for hybrids. The permutations possible are endless.
Rigidly enforced, that would need to be the key.
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They might be endless but they wouldn’t be proportional to usage which is what road pricing would achieve and what is currently achieved by taxing petrol.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Mon 20 Jun 22 at 07:37
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..even road pricing (at its simplest at least) may not be equivalent to fuel tax.
Currently, and generalising slightly, over the same distance less efficient vehicles are effectively taxed at a higher rate than more efficient ones, since they use more fuel.
Road pricing could remove some of the incentives for efficiency if it were implemented simply as a "price per mile".
As/when the technology allows, I suspect the only answer to that is not to "flat rate" it, but to band it in various different ways, e.g.:
...banded price per mile by specific vehicle type/model (based on nominal distance per unit of energy consumed?)
...differential pricing, banded by car, for specific sections of road (this would drive traffic volumes, and also allow the subsuming of LEZ and congestion charges into the single tax).
...etc.
The more criteria and differentiation added, the less it would be easily understandable to the public, but it could be tailored nicely to drive the appropriate tax revenue and behaviour.
(It strikes me, however, that having to pay to fuel a vehicle in advance, rather than waiting for a bill to appear sometime down the line with a substantial part of any journey cost, will/would take some getting used to).
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waiting for a bill to appear sometime down the line with a substantial part of any journey cost, will/would take some getting used to).
It is a major problem as inevitably there would be enforcement/ collection problems. The huge advantage of taxing fuel is you can’t avoid payment.
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I wonder what the cost of collection and setting up that system, if there was a road pricing scheme?
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>> I wonder what the cost of collection and setting up that system, if there was
>> a road pricing scheme?
>>
...Capita and the likes would bite the Government's hand off...
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>>
>> ...Capita and the likes would bite the Government's hand off...
>>
Anyone but Capita please! From my experience of using their systems - they are awful. Truly awful.
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Not only are Capita universally lambasted for providing a crap service but financially the look like they're "doing a Carillion".
If it wasn't for the Govt's ideological need to outsource stuff surely Capita would have gone tits up years ago?
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...I think I got the last paragraph round my neck, but you know what I meant.
Should have been:
(It strikes me, however, that not having to pay to fuel a vehicle in advance, and rather waiting for a bill to appear sometime down the line with a substantial part of any journey cost, will/would take some getting used to).
...up to early this morning taking SWMBO for her hip replacement op, and now wilting.
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Mon 20 Jun 22 at 09:10
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>>taking SWMBO for her hip replacement op
Good luck guv, hope all goes well for her.
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Thanks - at least the timing means I've avoided the need to buy her a birthday present......
....but you've got a new hip, dear. ;-)
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...I have to say, I sometimes end up gobsmacked by medicine.
SWMBO was picked up from the hospital today about 22 hours from going to theatre for her hip replacement (and, incidentally, only 5 months from seeing the consultant, one up for the NHS).
She's just managed to get upstairs largely under her own steam (and with the help of crutches)
We were told to expect roughly 24 hours (or even out the same day if she'd been early on the list, which she wasn't), and she was compos mentis 3 hours after theatre.
Still lots of rehab to do (and the potential for infection, which is always scary), but what I've seen shouldn't put anyone off such surgery. At this point, and the bruising might get worse, there isn't even much sign of physical trauma.
"Unbelievable, Geoff".
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Generally hips work out great - satisfaction over 90% and complication rates are pretty small.
Knees less so - a few months of recuperation not unusual and not as flexible as a real knee - if you think you need a new knee you better really really think you need a new one!
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Had to phone 999 on Friday to get fire service out to break into an elderly relatives house. She has fallen upstairs after her new hip “popped out” and was lying in agony and had helpfully kept her door key in the back of the lock to stop us using the spare….
Fire service gained access through removing a panel from the back UPVC door, climbing through and opening the front door with the key.
They then kindly (but worryingly) replaced the panel again and you wouldn’t have known it had ever been removed!
Ambulance (20 min wait) took her to hospital and she had it relocated under anaesthetic.
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Frightening times Bobby. I hope your relative makes a speedy recovery.
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...I shouldn't have spoken too soon.
Second time up out of bed this morning, onto crutches, entirely OK as she has been since discharge.
Without warning, she passed out, face down and quite hard.
Big cut under her chin, and a painful hand, but no immediate sign of any damage to the hip.
I managed to bring her round and sit her up, then we had a bit of a debate about what to do.
Our GP would see her, but there was no way I could get her there by myself (she was upstairs). So NHS 111 was called into action.
Quick and efficient response to the call, and a promise for a clinician to call back. That happened promptly, and after 'phone assessment an ambulance was arranged. That arrived rather promptly, and a full assessment was done before taking her off to A&E (where she was in a cubicle no more than 2 hours after the incident).
In parallel, I'd 'phoned the ward she was discharged from (different hospital but same trust as the A&E) and they said they'd arrange the consultant (or his team) to see her in A&E if necessary (they work from that hospital unless operating at the other, Covid-free site).
So far, the NHS has completely stepped up to the mark again!
She's woozy, but messaging me, so fingers crossed! (she's always been high-maintenance ;-) )
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Blimey TNE!
Hope she gets mended soon!
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>> So far, the NHS has completely stepped up to the mark again!
I have had three major* interactions with the NHS since 2016, and my hospital trust has been nothing short of excellent even during the trials and tribulations of covid. I think it depends on your trust.
(and two minor - broken finger, and stitches - damn dogs)
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 22 Jun 22 at 13:10
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>> I think it depends on your trust.
>>
...TBF, I think it also depends a bit on your "attitude".
(It's all a bit O/T in the motoring section, but the debate built from here).
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Gosh that’s not good T&E. Hope it was just a one off incident. Just stood up too quickly or something hopefully.
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I was ready for the "just stood up" thing, and was on standby for a few minutes, so I don't think so.
Hot off the press they think it might well be dehydration overnight (it being hot).
Anyway, sounds like she's getting a good check over.
I'm reasonably good at crisis-management (part of the job from early in my career), and I've also had to deal with a few "medical incidents" in climbing. Bit different when it's a bit more personal though!
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...and just to round it off.
A&E were thorough, if somewhat less than efficient (very busy, comme d'habitude).
CT scan to check for more serious head injury, x-ray on hand and hip, thank goodness all clear, and (lots of) steristrips on the chin. Along with all the usual "observations".
I picked her up after 6pm yesterday, and, though it's knocked her confidence slightly (not unnaturally), today she's been just about back to the condition ex ante.
I hope I'm not going to have to eat my words again!
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Hope she makes a speedy and full recovery
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Pleased for you both that there seems to be a positive direction of travel.
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>> Generally hips work out great - satisfaction over 90% and complication rates are pretty small.
>>
I had a new hip 2 years ago and so far I have been 100% satisfied from start to finish with both my NHS trust and the hip. Fingers crossed it stays that way!
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The huge advantage of taxing fuel is you can’t avoid payment. - Unless you steal it!
www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jun/11/forecourts-attempted-fuel-thefts-petrol-prices-soar
Oh well, another growth industry. No info on whether it is levelling up?
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>>..banded price per mile by specific vehicle type/model (based on nominal distance per unit of energy consumed?)
Hopefully I might get a better deal.
My usual whinge -My 2007 auto X Type costs almost the top VED
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Road pricing - vehicles will carry either a transponder which activates roadside sensors, or a GPS device which sends journey details to a central computer. Toll booths collecting cash are unlikely.
A vehicle passing a transponder site without registering can be photo'd and process similar to speed camera followed.
If GPS system is fitted it should be relatively simple to match the physical location of a vehicle with its reported location - if different there is a question to be answered.
Issues around human rights will cause rows whichever is chosen - big brother will be able to track your movements. It was this debate which made the Covid track and trace system both late and fairly ineffectual!
In both cases enforcement is the key. In both cases it would be possible to have a system which required a deposit to get registered - perhaps £100 equal to a tank of fuel. In both cases I am sure hacking and fraud will happen - as it does now with red diesel, cloning, etc.
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The problem is really how do you deal with can’t pay and won’t pay drivers. I’m sure there is some fraud that goes on with red diesel but that would be a drop in the ocean compared with non paying motorists in any road pricing scheme.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Mon 20 Jun 22 at 11:20
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....immobilisation might be a method of dealing with that, but the technology and implementation would be rather more difficult and lengthy...
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>>Can't pay and won't pay drivers...
SIM and mobile data device fitted to vehicles engine management system.
Call to authorise and de-authorise cars would then be possible.
Of course admin errors will ensure someone who has to get to Lands End is stuck at John O'Groats because the vehicle has been de-authorised accidently.
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Maybe you don't need infrastructure all over every road.
Start car. Car sends current mileage to somewhere. End drive. Car sends current mileage to somewhere. Generate bill. Pay online by midnight tomorrow.
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>> Maybe you don't need infrastructure all over every road.
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>> Start car. Car sends current mileage to somewhere. End drive. Car sends current mileage to
>> somewhere. Generate bill. Pay online by midnight tomorrow.
If you just charge a nominal few pence per mile that might work.
In practice though charging would surely need to be graduated so as to reflect demand as to both timing and route.
Thirty seven miles over the A859 from Stornoway to Tarbert is one thing. The same distance around, or inside of, the M25 has a vastly higher 'market value'.
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Depends what you are trying to achieve. In broad terms, chunk of money vanishes from exchequer from loss of fuel duty. Halfpenny a mile on everyone everywhere replaces it. Anything more complex just reduces the take, and after all, tax is just to enable the country to run.
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The solution finally adopted must have regard for complexity of the charging regime, and the costs of enforcement and collection.
Excise duty on fuel is (I think) collected from importers and refineries and possibly distribution depots - a few hundred?
VAT is collected from businesses running forecourts - less than 10,000
There are 30m cars on the road. This may seem impossibly complex to manage and enforce.
The RFL is collected from all of them - a fixed amount often paid by standing order - the ability to link individuals with bank account and maintain a direct debit system is certainly feasible. If adopted as the solution, there will be objectors, those without bank accounts etc.
Reflect on the thought that pre-Covid the idea of a cashless society was considered to be implausible or a long way off. Many businesses are now cashless even for trivial items - bars, parking charges, newsagents, coffee shops etc. We now just wave a card or a smart phone.
There will still be a problem with enforcement just as there is at the moment. With more money at stake, government will be keener to step up solutions rather than apparently ignoring it as is often the case now.
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>> Thirty seven miles over the A859 from Stornoway to Tarbert is one thing. The same
>> distance around, or inside of, the M25 has a vastly higher 'market value'.
Current fule taxation is market value blind. You cant hypothecate everyday fuel taxes by route. If you want to add market value you 'toll" routes.
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The Contradictions of Battery Operated Vehicles - Lygonos
