It's possible we will replace one of our cars with an EV (when we need to replace it) but at this stage I would still be concerned about only having the EV option. There is no certainty that the provision of chargers and even electricity generation will reach a give level, and whilst I don't make many long journeys now it is still important to me that I can jump in a car and go to the other end of the country if I want or need to. And get home again.
If enough charging points are not provided then the equilibrium price of charging away from home will presumably rise until demand equals supply and that could limit uptake of EV's and their use.
I have put a suitable 32A charging circuit in at the new build FWIW.
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When I submit plans to build an office over my garage, they will include a home charger.
The person who has drawn up the plans tells me that the National Park planners look favourably on it
Ive no idea of the detail of home charging, but doubtless will find out in the next few weeks or months.
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Simple economics - those car parks with charging will be able to charge more for parking than those without. Operators will get a higher return to fund the installation of chargers.
Absolutely no different to current situation where charges relate to location and adjacency to shopping centres, quality of lighting, size of parking bays etc etc. Folk are free to choose.
If charging facilities genuinely become a constraint in the transition to EV the government can always change the rules. I am sure charging operators carefully monitor usage of facilities and will happily invest in extra capacity if they can make money.
Creating rules and regulation where none are needed is pointless. Capitalism (for all its flaws) often solves these issues without government meddling.
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>> Creating rules and regulation where none are needed is pointless. Capitalism (for all its flaws)
>> often solves these issues without government meddling.
Infrastructure tends to need planning and control. There's the chicken, and the egg. The infrastructure won't be there until the demand is, and vice versa.
It will happen eventually but piecemeal isn't necessarily efficient and the "build it and they will come" approach will get it done quicker. Another factor is generating capacity which doesn't appear overnight and is already under pressure for which I have heard no good explanation.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 28 Dec 21 at 12:18
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>> Simple economics - those car parks with charging will be able to charge more for
>> parking than those without. Operators will get a higher return to fund the installation of
>> chargers.
I hope the chargers will be paid for by the chargees, not the none-charging parkers.
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Simple economics won't solve one problem with EVs.
The Govt have said that the sale of new petrol and diesel cars will be outlawed in 8 years time yet there is nothing I can find in national building regs that require developers of major housebuilding projects to cater for electric vehicles.
No allowance for suitable electrical access points in houses with parking and no allowance for the subsequent installation of a minimum number of public charging points for homes without off-street parking.
Access points are just extra cost and charging point infrastructure takes up the space they could cram another 'executive' home into so there's no incentive without regulations.
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Excellent, thanks.
Too late for the 6.000 homes due to start in Basingstoke and not in current regs but it's a step in the right direction.
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>> electrek.co/2021/11/22/england-will-be-first-country-to-require-new-homes-to-include-ev-chargers/
>>
Are these chargers generic then? Could I get a charger installed on the basis that it will work for any EV?
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Home chargers are usually generic. They have to be
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Yes, although my old one was 16A (as was the car, and Leafs were, and a few other brands) but most (maybe all) cars will now take 32A.
Also the functionality can be quite different. Some are compatible, for instance, with Octopus variable tariff (OHME), or with solar panels to a greater or lesser extent, or have more or less remote or programmable control (as do EV cars).
You can also get tethered ones (where the cable is permanently attached) or ones with a socket (where you use your own cable - which is what mine is, so in theory my old one needed an upgrade from 16A to 32A - along with the wiring and consumer unit end MCB or whatever they are - if it had been under spec).
I'd get a non tethered one if I were buying again - you can either take the cable out with you if you expect to need to charge on a public charger, or just have a second cable like I do. I'm not really sure what the advantage is though, unless along comes another standard which you need a new cable for - which would be a bigger change for a tethered one than a non tethered.
AFAIK home chargers are always Type 2 at the wall end . My old car was type 1 at the car end, the new car is Type 2. The very fast chargers have different types (e.g. CCS) but I think you could only have this on 3 phase - afaik very rare on a home charger.
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The consensus seems to be that a charge point already adds value to property.
In 5 years when (perhaps) 50-75% of new car sales are EV it will make a noticeable difference. Much as a lack of central heating or double glazing would have done a couple of decades ago.
It will be in the interests of both developers and house buyers/owners to ensure charging is available. Power companies will want to sell more energy. Folk can choose - granite kitchen worktops or charge points. Cheaper as a part of new build or increased cost of retrofit.
Creating legislation and an industry to manage and enforce costs money. Don't bother unless the benefits are very clear. Too much legislation fails woefully.
In this case we would spend 1-3 years arguing about the detail and still get it wrong - eg: how many chargers per property, what KW should they be, legislate for energy companies to upgrade infrastructure, define an appeals process, different rules for inner city apartments vs out of town estates etc etc.
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--snip waffle--
>In this case we would spend 1-3 years arguing about the detail and
>still get it wrong - eg: how many chargers per property, what KW
>should they be, legislate for energy companies to upgrade
>infrastructure, define an appeals process, different rules for inner
>city apartments vs out of town estates etc etc.
You don't legislate the detail, you legislate the provision of infrastructure which is why I said "access points" and "subsequent installation of public charging points".
Last edited by: Kevin on Tue 28 Dec 21 at 13:48
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>> In 5 years when (perhaps) 50-75% of new car sales are EV it will make
>> a noticeable difference. Much as a lack of central heating or double glazing would have
>> done a couple of decades ago.
>>
I doubt that. The cost of installing an EV charger is significantly less than the cost and disruption of installing central heating or double glazing.
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>>Access points are just extra cost and charging point infrastructure takes up the space they could cram another 'executive' home into so there's no incentive without regulations.
Yes. And a domestic supply is usually 60-100A. I'm wondering if I paid enough attention to this, I put a supply in for the construction of our new house with the meter in a cabinet in the garden, intending to leave it there and just put an armoured cable to the house where the distribution board is which is what we have done. After discussion with UK Power Networks we have a 23KVA supply (100A). If I recall correctly this was the the suggested higher of a couple of options. Since then I have spoken to a couple of people who have put in 30KVA
I'm hoping this will be enough, as we have electric heating, albeit with a heat pump, and when car charging is added. I don't suppose I will be in any worse position than 99% of houseowners but it would be a shame if we missed the opportunity to put in a big enough supply.
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I don't know much about it but I think I read that 3 phase would be the way to go, especially if you want to charge two cars at the same time.
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I have a Transformer at either end of my road (I found out after one of them blew up Hiroshima style) The transformers have three phases, and they are split to provide one of the three to a group of the houses down our road. ie out of 99, 33 are on one phase and so on.
Who is going to pay to dig up the road linking my house to the other two phases (or all the other 99 houses)? so we can have 3 phase chargers.
100 amps is all I have, 100 amps is all I am going to get for the next 100 years.
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"100 amps is all I am going to get for the next 100 years."
That's 1 amp per year.
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>> "100 amps is all I am going to get for the next 100 years."
>>
>> That's 1 amp per year.
Watt are you on about.
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A 7Kwh charger is going to be enough for most people. It will put around 200 to 300 miles charge in the i the battery overnight Most people don't return home with a battery completely depleted anyway . They tend to top it up when its say down to 30%. They then tend to top it up to around 80%. When charging at home speed of charging is not the issue it is when charging away from home. You just plug it in overnight a few times a week and its done. Even wiith two electric cars in the family you dont really need a fast charger at home.
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Got 3-phase (3x100A main fuse) at home (house used to be a hotel) but only fitted a 7kW (32A) charger on one phase.
Even if/when we have 2 EVs I don't see a scenario arising where me and the missus suddenly need 250 miles of range overnight in each of our cars.
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Lygonos, are there any chargers that will automatically queue multiple connections?
ie. A single charger with multiple outlets that will charge the first vehicle to connect, then the second vehicle etc. etc.
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>>are there any chargers that will automatically queue multiple connections?
No idea if there is 'serial' functionality' but there are some chargers that can share a single circuit and divide the charge between the cars that are attached - once a car is full, it's share is then redirected to the other(s)
This chargepoint can apparently be link with up to 2 others on a single phase circuit:
www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/chargers/easee/easee-one/
Commercial video discussing "do I need extra chargepoints?"
youtu.be/P0bLumFKKyI
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 28 Dec 21 at 21:41
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>> Lygonos, are there any chargers that will automatically queue multiple connections?
>>
>> ie. A single charger with multiple outlets that will charge the first vehicle to connect,
>> then the second vehicle etc. etc.
Given that public chargers have data connectivity and CPU built into them, absolutely no technical reason why not. From a practical view point, I would guess max of two as you don't want cables trailing across other access areas.
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Local Tesco put charging bays opposite where folk queue for 'click-n-collect'. Some real good planning there.
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Weren't VW doing an advert promoting that they were installing chargers in many supermarkets that would fit all EV's no just theirs.
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>> Weren't VW doing an advert promoting that they were installing chargers in many supermarkets that would fit all EV's no just theirs.
Yep
pod-point.com/rollout/tesco-ev-charging
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You can buy charges for two vehilces although I think they simply split the charge between the two outlets rather that charge the vehicles sonsecutively. They are expensive being really designed for commercial premises and don't qualify for the, soon to disappear government grant.
If by some chance you really need to charge two cars at the same time your best bet is probably to use the granny charger in a 13 amp socket for one of them. A least that way one of the cars is being charged at the charger's maximum rate rather than at 50%
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When I got the Zoe Renault also threw in a free charger. It's not been turned on for a couple of years but yes, they are generic enough that should I get another EV I'd hope to be able to use it again.
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Plus fitting. They have to be fitted by a qualified electrician.
I'm not sure what the grant status is now but I suspect that there are equally good if not better ones for what that will cost you, once you add up all the costs.
I imagine they'd work fine, a place like Screwfix wouldn't sell them otherwise.
But as I've just written somewhere above you really need to think about what features you want before deciding on one.
EDIT: and it's £75 cheaper here www.electrical2go.co.uk/project-ev-ac-electric-vehicle-charger-7-3kw-32a-single-phase.html
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 29 Dec 21 at 14:15
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I was just wondering, I'm not really in the market for an EV as the ones that are of any use are too expensive for me. Fitting it wouldn't be an issue, just the cost of a brew and a bacon buttie.
I was wondering if the third party ones were any good, I had thought about an EV, but the ones in my price range aren't of any use for my driving pattern.
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I paid £24.5k for an estate car with a near-300 mile summer range. There aren't many with a significantly higher range even for much more money. (yes Zero, I know it's cheap Chinese tat :-) )
I do agree that they aren't for everyone yet but there is an element of having to change your way of thinking in order to make the change. I as just chatting with someone who is more used to owning a full EV about long journeys and he said he tends to stop fairly frequently for say 10 or 15 minutes rather than maxing out his space between stops then stopping for 45 or more minutes. Seems like a reasonable idea to me, though i rarely go places which would be beyond my range, and I can imagine if I were clocking up high mileages daily it would be more of a bugbear.
If you can keep within range of your home charging capability it becomes very cheap motoring. Seems my first few years' service will be significantly under £100 a pop. When I can charge at home a mile costs me about 5p in leccy. No tax.
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>>I do agree that they aren't for everyone.....
I want one. But it's not for me yet. I need south coast to Manchester on a single charge and guaranteed availability of charging when I am there. I don't want to finish an all day meeting and worry about finding a charger and then waiting several hours for the car to charge.
I have been told that electric cars only charge fast once on a journey as the battery heats up which affects charging efficiency - though this may have changed with modern electric cars.
BTW Smokie, back seats down, what's the load length please, if it's 3m+ then I might be that little nearer on deciding :-)
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I'll try to remember to measure tomorrow but it won't be 3m+ for sure - though it's not bad with the rear seats down, but probably only as good as a medium hatch. My mate looked at whether he could sleep in it when going motor racing and he reckoned he could, so I'd have guessed about 2m tops.
You can fast charge more than once per journey., IIRC that was a peculiarity of (a specific version?) of the Nissan Leaf but I may be wrong.
On a fast charger mine will go from 20 - 80% in a bout 35 - 40 minutes (that's about 110 - 150 miles depending on time of year etc). The remaining 20% is a bit slower but I've not had it long enough yet to find out details. I calculated just over an hour from 0 - 100% but that now sounds like a poss slight underestimate. Which is why I will consider shorter bursts more frequently.
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>> Nissan Leaf but I may be wrong.
That's it, you jogged my memory. I recall the battery wasn't actively cooled with meant that it was too hot for subsequent recharges.
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Zippy - driving seat is quite well back but space to rear of car with seats down is only about 1.6m. Hardly qualifies as an estate really, but it's still bigger than my previous car.
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Thanks Smokie,
Current Tucson is 2.1m with the passenger seat pushed right forward.
The MG looks great in the showroom in metallic blue with some very big flakes in the paint.
I, on the other hand, am slightly green with envy :-).
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Does any car have a load length, seats down, of 3m? Pretty sure my old E class estate was only around 2m, and I can’t imagine there are many cars bigger than that. Unless you consider the van based MPVs like the VW Transporter or MB Vito!
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>> Does any car have a load length, seats down, of 3m?
Berlingo with rear seats removed is just over 2 metres. Took our old settee off to the tip with very little to spare. Replacement from IKEA was a few cm longer. The frame was not as I expected shrink wrapped but on a carboard 'pallet' to accommodate part of the assembly kit.
Got it in in the end by folding the front passenger seat and at the cost of very limited n/s visibility.
Had to leave Mrs B in the café while I went home and returned in the Skoda to pick her up - I couldn't unload the 'lingo single handed.
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>> Does any car have a load length, seats down, of 3m?
I once got a 10' ladder in an Austin Ambassador by moving the front passenge seat fully forward and fully reclining it, folding the rear backrest and pushing the ladder into the front passenger footwell. Even managed to close the hatch - just!
The KIA Pride had a rear seat that allowed you to lift the squab, lay the backrest flat and then replace the squab. With the front seats fully reclined you effectively had a double bed.
IIRC, couldn't you do the same with the Maxi?
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Thu 30 Dec 21 at 17:35
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>> couldn't you do the same with the Maxi?
Yup - front seat forward and backrests reclined, and the rear seatbacks could fold back into the bootspace.
pbs.twimg.com/media/D-kAQpIXYAEIQWK.jpg
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Sounds good, but like I say too rich for my blood.
What's the range like in the winter?
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People seem to be getting about 3 miles per kWh in the winter and over 4 in the summer. I think those figures are fairly standard across most electric cars. Some are getting 3.5 and more at the moment, it so much depends on a host of factors like your driving style, the weather, what type of roads (e.g. Motorway v. urban) your speed on m'ways, how much ancillary equipment your run etc etc.
The long range one has a 61 kWh battery, the original one is 52.
I've only had mine a few weeks and still enjoying hooning away from the lights etc so I'm down at 2.9. I've decided with this car that unless I am going on a run where I'll need to charge, I'm going to enjoy driving, and warmth, and not fret if I don't achieve absolute optimal mpg(!!).
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Top maths Sooty :-)
MG say WLTP 250 miles.
For some, the "mpg" becomes quite an obsession, though it sometimes is a bit exciting seeing if you can better your previous best etc. Om my previous car there was a fun thread for best mileages which had rules like you had to leave and arrive from the same place (so you couldn't just coast down a hill) and not allow the ICE to fire up (Which could be seen from the display, which you posted a piccy of as proof). I never reached 50 miles, though quite a few did.
40 mile www.speakev.com/threads/40-mile-club.259/page-26#post-3129577
50 miles www.speakev.com/threads/50-mile-club.304/page-28#post-3071065
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>> For some, the "mpg" becomes quite an obsession, though it sometimes is a bit exciting
>> seeing if you can better your previous best etc.
I can assure you, exciting it aint.
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I know my car (2.1 diesel) is quite good on fuel consumption, but I'm rarely inclined to bother to check. It gets filled up when it needs some, which takes 5 minutes and I know the cost is affordable, so I hardly, if ever, even begin to think about it.
I'm sure an EV would be cheaper to fuel, but it would cost me more in time and general faff as I regularly make long journeys and travel at random times.
I'll look at the whole thing again when the system and cars are a bit more developed.
Thanks again to all those prepared to break the rocks and lay the foundations etc. Keep up the good work and don't wear your calculators out... ;-)
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>>....and don't wear your calculators out... ;-)
>>
...got to do something whilst waiting in Greggs/Costa/Roadchef for enough charge (to get to the next Greggs/Costa/Roadchef*) .....
*other time-wasting recharging locations are available (if you're feeling lucky)
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Wed 29 Dec 21 at 22:26
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>>Thanks again to all those prepared to break the rocks and lay the foundations etc.
The slower the roll-out, the longer it takes for the taxman to ruin the party!
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Cheers, me add good.
That's still a bit iffy range wise in the winter for me. I'll what happens in the next 5-10 years.
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I trundled up from Devon to North Yorkshire (350 miles) a couple of days ago with just a 25 minute charge at Hopwood Park. Traffic was heavy and it was raining, which tends to hit the range on winter tyres.
I averaged 260Wh/mile, or just under 4 miles to the kWh, doing 72-74mph where able. Awful detour around the M42 closure. Should've followed sat nav, the actual diversion was hell.
My employer refused point blank to add any kind of charging facilities to their company car parks a couple of years ago so this doesn't make much difference.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Thu 30 Dec 21 at 14:15
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That's right Smokie. Because I know I am going to just charge it back up at night there's not much point worrying about miles/kW and leaving the heater off etc.
The only time I really had range anxiety was when we had the Leaf and drove to Southampton for the evening. Left with 130m on the clock. Arrived with 70 left and 70 to get home. Charged it on the mains for a few hours and had 118m on the clock to go. Should have been plenty.
However.....
Just started up the M3 and noticed because the temperature was sub zero outside and the Leaf has no battery thermal management, we were using up range at about double the normal rate and so we wouldn't have enough to do the 70 miles home.
Off went the heater and speed adjusted to 50 for the A272, out with the spare blankets from the back of the car so we didn't freeze, only turning on the heat to demist the windscreen when needed. Eventually arrived home with 10 miles left of range.
Not a pleasant experience I must say. I kept thinking "is that what one would have dropped in excess of 40K for a car for?" .. and this is progress?
Nonetheless I am much happier with the Niro EV now because it is well away from the range pain threshold.
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Will 2022 be the year of the electric car for ewe?
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0012swb
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Interesting wee graphic - includes EV and PHEV sales
www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/rhq9p2/oc_top_countries_by_plugin_electric_vehicles/
Click on middle of graph to start the video.
Interesting that Netherlands goes backwards from 2020 - ?due to their high tax regime
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 31 Dec 21 at 15:44
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Channel: Quest
Show: 5th Gear Recharged
Format: Series.
All about electric cars and available on catch-up. It's on Sky, not sure about other services.
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If only someone would unplug VBH. What a hideous motoring journalist she is.
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Mercedes reveals electric car with 600-mile range
Carmaker claims Vision EQXX can stop people worrying about running out of charge
4 January 2022
Mercedes-Benz VISION EQXX
CREDIT: Mercedes-Benz/media.daimler.com
Mercedes-Benz says it has designed an electric car capable of travelling more than 600 miles on a single charge, about three times the average range of most rechargeable vehicles.
The German carmaker said its Vision EQXX prototype consumes less than 10 kilowatt hours of power per 100km due to sleeker design, greater efficiency and higher density batteries.
Most electric cars can travel just under 200 miles before needing to recharge but Mercedes-Benz said its new design puts an end to “range anxiety”. The fear of running out of power on the road is considered a key barrier to wider adoption of electric cars even though most journeys are relatively short.
Unveiling the prototype at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas this week, Mercedes said its prototype “demonstrates just how efficient, sustainable and luxurious electromobility can be”.
Mercedes-Benz VISION EQXX
Materials including mushrooms, bamboo, cactus and vegan silk were used on the interior CREDIT: Mercedes-Benz/media.daimler.com
The design is expected to form the basis for cars going on sale in 2024 or 2025, although Markus Schafer, the chief technology officer, declined to specify when the 1,000 km-range battery would be ready for production.
"We will likely be the first to show a 1,000 km-range car in real life, with such a small battery," he said.
Mercedes needed to determine what range buyers expected and how much they are willing to pay before deciding when to start selling a car like the Vision EQXX, Mr Schafer added.
The prototype comes less than two months after Chinese carmaker GAC Group unveiled its Axion LX Plus SUV, which it claims will be able to travel 626 miles on one charge.
In September, California EV start-up Lucid started producing its 500-plus-mile range Air.
Major carmakers have been overhauling their operations to produce electric vehicles in line with the shift away from fossil fuels, with several countries planning to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars. The UK will ban such sales from 2030.
In July, Mercedes-Benz announced plans to invest more than $47bn (£34bn) by 2030 to take on Tesla and wind down spending on fossil fuel engine technology this decade.
The Vision EQXX also features an interior made using sustainable materials including mushrooms, bamboo, cactus and vegan silk.
“These show that it is still possible to achieve the utmost in automotive luxury without using animal products, whilst creating an inimitable feeling of premium comfort. This fascinating journey has halved the carbon footprint of the leather alone,” Mercedes said.
Mercedes-Benz VISION EQXX
Higher density batteries are one of the reasons for the increased range CREDIT: Mercedes-Benz /media.daimler.com
The prototype comes as BMW appeared to have overtaken its arch rival in the global sales race for the first time since 2015.
Pieter Nota, BMW’s sales chief, wrote on LinkedIn: “Proudly claiming number one position in the global premium automotive segment for the BMW brand in 2021.”
The car marker will not report its annual sales figures until January 12, a spokeswoman said, but BMW delivered 1.7m vehicles for the first nine months of 2021, beating Mercedes-Benz by more than 112,000 vehicles.
BMW has been less affected by the global semiconductor shortage that has snarled production lines globally.
Mercedes said on Monday that supply problems will continue to affect the industry during the first half of this year.
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>> Mercedes-Benz VISION EQXX
Fully Charged did a review of it a couple of days ago.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt_c3gaO32g
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...estimated price (from) £110,000....
So we're all ready to buy one of those.....aren't we?
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>> ...estimated price (from) £110,000....
>>
>> So we're all ready to buy one of those.....aren't we?
Only while the 600 mile range remains a USP.
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...with s/h prices as they are, the p/ex on your Beemer will get you nearly there...
(The dogs probably won't fit in the back, though).
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>>
>> (The dogs probably won't fit in the back, though).
>>
Mine might! She looks similar to this...when not shaved...
images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81X3oc4MqpL.jpg
Last edited by: zippy on Wed 5 Jan 22 at 13:36
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>> this is mine www.istockphoto.com/photo/dog-driving-a-car-gm607756062-104206539
I can well imagine that the dog would be infinitely better at driving than you.
For example, how many dogs have collided with a bus whilst driving?
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>>For example, how many dogs have collided with a bus whilst driving?
I had a Springer that collided with a Reliant. The Reliant came off worse!
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>> ...estimated price (from) £110,000....
>>
>> So we're all ready to buy one of those.....aren't we?
>>
Range anxiety usurped by wallet anxiety!
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www.greencars.com/post/ford-doubles-f-150-lightning-ev-production
Seems the Americans are starting to get into the ev thing for pick up trucks. Not massive numbers in relation to petrol and diesel, but I guess they've got to start somewhere.
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A list of all currently and imminently available Electric Vehicles for your delectation
tinyurl.com/37xbb8e7
Not many reach 300 mile range yet but some don't half charge fast!
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"Available" is probably not the right word for new cars !
I've got and ID.3 on order and don't expect to see it until late summer. Waiting lists for all vehicles, not just EVs are now quite ridiculous. Up to a year in some cases
www.carwow.co.uk/new-car-delivery-times#gref
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True, they are still saying the chip shortage is affecting immediate availability aren't they (amongst other things no doubt).
Available to put a deposit on maybe? :-)
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Tesla and MG/SAIC have a lot of in-house supply though waits are still 4-5 mths.
MG appear to have started their "Affinity" programme for public workers and their families again - I suspect they are happy to take low margins so they can make hay at the expense of manufacturers hobbled by supply issues.
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Bloke on the MG forum has literally just posted this
"My MG5 ordered late September has had it's estimated delivery date pushed back from 20th January to 7th May with this message:
"Due to a global shortage of semi-conductor chips delivery lead times have been extended"."
Seems they may not be immune...
I don't think they stopped Affinity, certainly not since Sept.
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>>I don't think they stopped Affinity, certainly not since Sept.
Not for MG5, but they didn't offer it at all for the 73kWh ZS until yesterday, and the only deal was £1500 deposit allowance if you took out the 5.9% finance.
I ordered the "Trophy" from a broker for £26.5k in November (still over £3k cheaper than the current and £5.5k under list) - the dealers complained to MGUK and the deals were subsequently pulled.
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That shows what a low price does - after all, Honda Renault and Mazda all sell EVs which most testers rate better than the MG EVs.
I also wonder how many Torygraph readers realise that modern MG cars have nothing to do with the British built sports cars of their (long distant) youth, apart from the badge?
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Thu 13 Jan 22 at 09:03
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My dad was a “buy once, buy good” kind of chap. Whether it was cars, clothes, shoes, houses or whisky. I can’t claim to have always followed his lead, but I’ve never regretted it when I have.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 13 Jan 22 at 09:18
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They are bought by the undiscerning driver, mostly middle to late age with little imagination or interest in the finer aspects of life. 60 years ago the car of choice would have been a Reliant.
The EV flat cap brigade, battery operated whippets or solar powered pigeons buyer.
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Hey! You leave my whippets and pigeons out of this!
And flat caps are the height of fashion now I'll have you know.
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Price is the key.
For a broadly similar piece of personal transport - buy a new MG, a three year old Honda, or a six year old Audi (change the brands/ages to suit). Or buy a premium brand but smaller with less performance.
A decision to sacrifice a small amount of of quality or performance for new, zero miles, warranty, functionally very similar, etc is understandable.
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I tend to purchase 3-year-old, one owner, low mileage, usually Jap cars.
My budget this year will be £25k.
I could get a new MG EV-5 for around that figure, or a used, more premium model of EV.
Problem is, in my mind, if one buys a 3-year-old EV, how much will that car be worth at 6 years old?
Think I'll be sticking with ICE.
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It's only a car, not a status symbol.
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>> It's only a car, not a status symbol.
or enjoyment. At the very least buy yourself something exciting to go with it. A deregulated electric scooter maybe.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQQCEQ3gOQM
Not sure who is more useless, the bloke who has it or the van itself.
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I've only watched 5 mins so far but, he's an iriot for 2 reasons so far.
1 - Never operate the windscreen wipers if they are frozen to the windscreen.
2 - Never pour hot water onto a frozed up windscreen.
Minus 2 here as well this morgen. Brrrr!
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I have used water from the hot tap to defrost cars for over 30 years without an issue. Though, I do miss the A3 e-trons preheat facility, where you set the time you wanted the car to be warm for, and it’d pre heat it while plugged in, avoi h any battery drain. Perfect. I don’t know I if the electric MINI has the same function, but as delivery has been delayed until April it might not matter in the short term…
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Me too Peter, and I’ve lived in places where -12C is not uncommon and -15C happens. Not “hot” water but certainly warm. Pour on and drive straight off though or it can re-freeze.
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His time may have better spent RTFM than talking to camera.
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>>Honda Renault and Mazda all sell EVs
Honda sells a 120 mile small hatch
Mazda sells a 120 mile medium hatch
Renault sells a 200+ mile large city car that has just been given a 0 star NCAP rating.
MG sell a (now) 260 mile medium size SUV and a 250 mile medium estate.
When it comes to actual usability they're not in the same ballparks.
Desirability is different.
And given the choice between a Renault and an MG, I'd go with the Chinese personally.
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>> And given the choice between a Renault and an MG, I'd go with the Chinese
>> personally.
>>
...yeah; though Renault have probably had a longer time to perfect dodgy electrical items, the Chinese have now had much more volume and variety....
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Renault do at least make some good looking cars nowadays, though I’m not sure the Zoe is one of them. But, at the price a rapid charge-able 240 mile range is not to be sniffed at. I’d also have more faith in the safety of a French car than a Chinese one as well I think…
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>>I'd also have more faith in the safety of a French car than a Chinese one as well I think...
www.euroncap.com/en/results/mg/zs-ev/39678
www.euroncap.com/en/results/renault/zoe/44206
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Interesting. The Zoe is an old design, but I didn’t expect that. Different types of car though; the equivalent to that MG is a Megane isn’t it?
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It's a faux-by-four design so maybe more like the Captur or Kadjar?
NCAP have gone all-in on anti-crash tech so a fair number of cars without automatic emergency braking etc are going to do very badly as far as the scoring goes.
My main interest is what happens when they smash the cars - sod the pedestrians!
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Didn't Dacia say something along the lines of "sod the (safety) tech, it costs too much"?
To keep car prices low the are not offering radar collision avoidance etc and that will keep NCAP ratings lower.
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Choices - you either buy a:
- new Dacia without complex safety kit for a low price and low NCAP rating, or
- a 3-5 year old upmarket car which maybe didn't have all the kit fitted when new anyway.
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EV Range Anxiety. - Manatee
