Why are they so high just now? And why is there very little in the media about them (certainly I haven’t seen much).
Did the suppliers stage manage the shortage last month to push prices up?
Usually when they get to a high level there is all sorts of pressures applied to bring them back down again.
Diesel just about hitting £1.50 a litre here.
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Paid €1.57 litre for 95 octane petrol today in Spain.
Still lots of old diesel cars knocking around...my 2006 Megane Cabrio loaner is doing around 30 mpg in mixed driving, and I’m racking up the miles.
Daren’t put the roof down in case it doesn’t go back up.
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I suspect that there is less sympathy to keeping fuel prices down in government circles as part of the push towards electrification.
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Fuel prices are high due to OPEC refusing to increase supply.
In today's papers it's reported that the UK, EU, China and other countries are releasing oil reserves in order to bring down the price by saturating the oil market.
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Also while high in absolute terms in real terms petrol is still cheaper than it was 10 or 20 years ago…. The following only goes back to 2013, but the RAC reckon it’s only just gone above the price it was in 2013, excluding CPI/RPI
www.racfoundation.org/data/uk-pump-prices-over-time
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Don’t get me wrong, when folk are willing to pay £1.50 for a bottle of water, the petrol and diesel seem dirt cheap in comparison!
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The heating oil (kerosene) tank is starting to look like a requirement for replenishing. Currently looking at 49p /Ltr + VAT. I've still got a sticky note attached to my screen with price fluctuations in 2020. Lowest was 18.45p + VAT 0n 29/4/20.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Wed 24 Nov 21 at 13:03
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In about 1966 it was 3/6 per gallon.
Could fill up my Mini for just over a quid - but couldn't afford to.
Anyone got the RPI index for the current value of 3/6)
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Looks like £68.46
£100 in 66 is £1965 now
So that would be about £15 per litre.
No wonder I couldnt afford to fill it!
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Bole Axe!
£1 in1966 is £19.65
So 3/6 is £6.87
Strangely, this is £1.50 per gallon!
Last edited by: neiltoo on Wed 24 Nov 21 at 13:20
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£1 in1966 is £19.65
So 3/6 is £6.87
3/6 = 17.5p
If £1 = £19.65 then 3/6 = £19.65 * 17.5/100 = £3.44
So, something is wrong. Did you translate 3/6 to 36p?
Using www.inflationtool.com/british-pound/1966-to-present-value 17.5p in 1966 is £2.80 now
£2.80 for a gallon is 62p a litre.
Or has my early morning coffee not kicked in yet?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 24 Nov 21 at 13:37
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I haven’t checked this, but the following table seems to cover most of what we are looking at. It stops in May 2021 though, and prices have risen a chunk since then…
www.speedlimit.org.uk/petrolprices.html
Even so, petrol seems to cost roughly what it did in 1983, though it got a lot cheaper in the 90’s in real terms.
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Seem to recall, bout three years ago was it? prices plummeted, we were looking at falling below £1 a litre.
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>> Seem to recall, bout three years ago was it? prices plummeted, we were looking at
>> falling below £1 a litre.
>>
I believe that was during the first lockdown.
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>> I believe that was during the first lockdown.
Fallen close to £1/litre a couple of times I think. IIRC I filled up for something like £1.02/l at a Harvest station in Bedworth when taking the caravan in for work at the selling dealer. Must be 3-4 years since Pedley's went down the tubes.
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Was in Pease Pottage services earlier today (not for petrol, and indeed not for Pottage) but noticed it was an eye watering 1.67 for ordinary four star stuff. I filled up at Tesco two days ago for 1.49 and thought that was pushing it.
Yes, and I also remember Michael Barratt on Nationwide telling us it was looking as though petrol might hit four bob a gallon.
Jaunty little theme tune, that had, remember?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO0GQrYV5oQ
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>>
>> Yes, and I also remember Michael Barratt on Nationwide telling us it was looking as
>> though petrol might hit four bob a gallon.
Wow! that takes me back.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7445505/The-truth-TVs-Nationwide-scenes-classic-1970s-teatime-show.html
Barratt on the left, Bob Wellings on the right in the photo. Apropos of SFA, I used to work with Wellings' brother.
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If you had driven 2 miles down the A23 into Crawley Sainsburys from Pease Pottage Crankcase you could have bought petrol around 1.40 for a litre. I paid 1.41.9 for diesel. Petrol was cheaper but I cannot remember exact price.
In Tenerife last week petrol was €1.17 a litre so it seems strange that LL was paying so much more in mainland Spain.
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www.globalpetrolprices.com/Spain/gasoline_prices/
1.49 Euro
Anyhoos, what is this 'fuel prices' you speak of?
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 24 Nov 21 at 21:02
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Canaries have different taxation to mainland Spain. For one reason and another I was flying to Tenerife several times a year pre Covid and fuel was always ridiculously cheap.
Filled up again today in Denia at €1.57 litre for 95 octane.
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I remember being on a Canaries cruise some years back and they filled at La Palma cos it was so cheap.
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...crikey; I bet there was a bit of a queue behind that....
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>> I remember being on a Canaries cruise some years back and they filled at La
>> Palma cos it was so cheap.
ISTR the Canaries have a status vis a vis Spain similar to that of Jersey and UK; low tax is a selling point.
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Doesn't Gibraltar have a similar advantage for large vessels?
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Something going cheap in Canaries? Did anyone tweet it?
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I cannot compete with all those puns so I'll just point out that the Islands get their names from dogs, not birds.
The Spanish Isle of Dogs, in fact.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 25 Nov 21 at 19:33
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Don't be ridiculous.
If they got their names from dogs they would be called something like "The Spaniel Islands".
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Like the people from Alsace?
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>> I cannot compete with all those puns so I'll just point out that the Islands
>> get their names from dogs, not birds.
>>
>> The Spanish Isle of Dogs, in fact.
It should be the isla de perros in that case.
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Don't be so literal, or singular - Islas Canarias from the Latin Canariae Insulae, which means Islands of dogs, or at least it did to the Romans when the King of Mauritania was talking about them.
The Canary bird is, in fact, named after the Islands.
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And the Isle of dogs has nothing to do with dogs, or Romans or the sodding King of millwall
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What is the origin of the Isle of Dogs?
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>> What is the origin of the Isle of Dogs?
It's where people from Barking used to go for their holidays ?
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>>It's where people from Barking used to go for their holidays ?
V/good.
:o)
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>..Islas Canarias from the Latin Canariae Insulae, which means Islands
>of dogs, or at least it did to the Romans when the King of Mauritania
>was talking about them.
History and Geography aren't your stong points are they? The Romans were from Italy not Spain.
>What is the origin of the Isle of Dogs?
See? I think you're getting your Canary Islands mixed up with Canary Wharf.
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The Roman empire extended across North Africa and it is they to whom the "discovery" of the Canary Isands is attributed.
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The Canary Islands were "discovered" by the renowned British explorer Thomas Cook who brought back tobacco, patatas bravas and Larios.
Some say that it was around 1950 when he first landed but other accounts say it could have been later, possibly half past eight.
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Think you'll find the Guanches, of north African origin, 'discovered' the Fortunate Isles a few hours before €uropeans stumbled upon 'em.
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>> The Canary Islands were "discovered" by the renowned British explorer Thomas Cook....
...after which, the Islas Canarias were utterly Thomas Cooked...
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>> >> The Canary Islands were "discovered" by the renowned British explorer Thomas Cook....
>>
>> ...after which, the Islas Canarias were utterly Thomas Cooked...
So who discovered the Cook Islands? he cant have been in both places at once.
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>> So who discovered the Cook Islands? he cant have been in both places at once.
Captain Kirk, but they couldn't understand his Canadian accent.
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>>
>> Captain Kirk.....
>>
...and he later boldly claimed to have been the first man to ever go there.....
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I was brought up on the Isle of Wight (estate, East Manchester).
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Talking of Thos Cook, checkout this tale of the Vesuvius Funicular railway.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpHbv4-YB6c
Dont be drinking coffee, it has such gems in it as "one of the cars was thrown into the volcano"
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>> Talking of Thos Cook, checkout this tale of the Vesuvius Funicular railway.
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpHbv4-YB6c
>>
>> Dont be drinking coffee, it has such gems in it as "one of the cars
>> was thrown into the volcano"
>>
Fascinating. Thanks for that.
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When we first visted Vesuvius many years ago we went down inside the cone and the guides used to light their fags in the small fisures in the sides. Needless to say on a much later visit with our two childred it had been " discontinued" .
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About 45 years ago I went inside the Great Pyramid in Egypt. Also now discontinued. There's a really steep slope and I knocked my tourist fez off on the ceiling. It barreled down in the half gloom past a group of schoolgirls who all screamed satisfyingly.
And most here probably remember sitting (or worse) on the menhirs of Stonehenge?
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Mentioned on the news this morning that filling up the average car will now cost over £100.
Therefore, I wonder how long it will be before some of the garage forecourts remove the maximum delivery of £99 from the fuel pumps, or at the very least increase that amount to save hanging up the nozzle and then starting again to brim fuel tanks?
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with a 70 litre tank I have been hitting the £99 limit at Tescos for a couple of weeks.
I just leave it at that, the alternative is to re-insert your card and top up. Waste of effort.
Driving gently now - 35mpg easily gettable out of the Beemer now, injector cleaner every month seems to be getting good results too.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 9 Jun 22 at 11:08
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I suppose I still tend to fill up when I get down to a 1/4 of a tank. I guess it’s a hangover habit from when I used to live in a very rural location and the nearest filling station was a long way away.
Therefore I can still fill up without straying out of double figures. Well, I know what I mean. ;-)
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What are these "fuel prices" you speak of?
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Fuel prices - mostly media inspired ""lets all panic" material. The reality is rather different - but when did the facts stand i the way of a good story.
Most cars don't hold 55L - Focus size ~50-55L, Corsa size ~40L, city cars less still. Most folk fill up before running dry (numpties excepted). Typical fill from "empty" to full is 45L or less.
Unleaded in 2012 (ten years ago) was ~£1.40 per litre. 10 years on fuel prices are ~35% higher - an increase of ~3% pa. Hardly earth shattering!
The average driver does 9k pa. At (say) 45mpg they need to buy 900L. 10p on a litre is £90 pa. Since 2012 an increase of 50p per litre is £450pa - less than £10 per week.
A few at the margins or who do high mileages will have a problem. Most won't.
10-20% of costs could be recouped with little difference to functionality or performance:
- simply downsizing half a size when the car comes up for replacement
- driving a little more thoughtfully - eg: 65mph not 75mph on motorways.
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Agree with what you say.
This would not stop the BBC and others from a "good headline" to start the news bulletins and stir up more anxiety for many viewers.
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>> The average driver does 9k pa. At (say) 45mpg they need to buy 900L. 10p
>> on a litre is £90 pa. Since 2012 an increase of 50p per litre is
>> £450pa - less than £10 per week.
>>
>> A few at the margins or who do high mileages will have a problem. Most
>> won't.
If it were motor fuel alone then maybe that level of complacency would hold a wee bit of water. In practice it's piled on top of domestic fuel costs, rent and everything in the supermarket going up. Even £10/week is a lot if you're on a fixed income or one being squeezed downwards by reduced hours etc.
Article in the Guardian today about Citizens Advice in Southwark:
www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/09/it-is-so-easy-to-lose-everything-tales-of-poverty-despair-and-dignity-at-a-citizens-advice-centre
My job is solely concerned with claims for Universal Credit and I'm getting far more people than before finding even the idea of keeping body/soul together on a little over £300/month utterly unbelievable; but my outgoings are...
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>>If it were motor fuel alone then maybe that level of complacency would hold a wee bit of water.
It came across as smug to me too. Inflation on the current scale is nasty for people on fixed incomes and especially for those living partly on savings. People under financial stress already will be facing real difficulty.
But I'm not sure that cutting tax on motor fuel is the right answer.
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>> But I'm not sure that cutting tax on motor fuel is the right answer.
>>
I agree. The general taxpayer should not subsidise those who drive. In the same way that scrappage schemes were so wrong. Many people (poor, pensioners) couldn't dream of affording to drive - driving is a luxury. If it's a work essential then the employer should be paying.
Those who genuinely find the increased cost a burden should reduce their driving to essential only, or drive more economically/slower.
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... and of course HMG already have quite a burden of debt to repay and it's unrealistic to expect HMG to cough up each time costs go up - though I absolutely recognise that the current economic situation must be putting an awful lot of people in a very precarious and worrying position.
Terry's cost projections is similar to government spin - you can pick a date and say it's only gone up by pennies over years, but if you picked a more recent date when petrol was around £1 per gallon it's gone up 80% in a couple of years which is a very different picture.
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>> . If it's a work essential then the employer should be paying.
Do you realise how many people on low wages need a car to keep themselves in a job? Home carers. Workers in factories on outskirts of town with no public transport. Shift workers.
Filled my X1 at Costco tonight. 179.7. Diesel. I then sat at 55 all the way home on the M8. Car was sitting at 61mpg when I freewheeled into my drive!
With rampant inflation, the Govt must be rolling in it from increased VAT incomes across all industries and retailers.
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>> With rampant inflation, the Govt must be rolling in it from increased VAT incomes across
>> all industries and retailers.
>>
Though the value of Govt. loans is reducing in real terms.
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>> Do you realise how many people on low wages need a car to keep themselves
>> in a job? Home carers. Workers in factories on outskirts of town with no public
>> transport. Shift workers.
www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jun/09/uk-healthcare-staff-call-in-sick-to-avoid-using-car-as-cost-of-fuel-soars-union-says
The max amount that can be claimed for motor mileage without paying tax on a 'profit element' is 45p/mile, a rate unchanged for many years. Is that still fair recompense for essential users?
The employer will probably only pay monthly. I incurred a small number of miles in early April. My employer paid April expenses in early May. If I were doing 30 miles a day as a domiciliary carer that's well over £200 I'd be waiting for.
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>> The max amount that can be claimed for motor mileage without paying tax on a
>> 'profit element' is 45p/mile, a rate unchanged for many years. Is that still fair recompense
>> for essential users?
>>
>>
It’s 45 ppm for the first 10k miles. 25 ppm thereafter.
From experience (as a business miles driver) it’s not enough, by about 8ppm for me and more so for someone who has purchased a car solely because they need one for business miles and not for personal use.
I have a mate who is considering giving up his 100 odd miles a week volunteering for hospital cars because it’s leaving him out of pocket.
I also have a few clients providing care staff to councils etc. Councils are refusing to up their hourly rates and the care staff just can’t afford to work anymore as they tend to run older more fuel thirsty cars, as it’s what they can afford and their journeys involve a lot of stops and starts in urban environments so are not going to be the most economical.
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where about's do you live Bobby? IM just off the M8 Up near the airport in Renfrew.
Prices up this way are around £1.89 for Diesel.
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>>
>> But I'm not sure that cutting tax on motor fuel is the right answer.
>>
...there is an argument in current circumstances, however, that the "tax take" from fuel should remain constant (unless the Government specifically wishes to change it for fiscal purposes).
Whilst the fuel duty is a fixed amount per gallon, the fact that VAT at 20% is paid on top of the price plus fuel duty means that the "tax take" per gallon is rising not inconsiderably.
The 5p cut in duty has been more than offset by the increased VAT income due to the price rises since January. (one penny in five being additional tax income).
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... but they didn't ask us for money back when it dropped to £1.
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...indeed they didn't, but the corollary of the argument is that they could have (and possibly should have).
It is/was always going to be more of an issue when the price inexorably rises, though.
(I was waiting for someone to point out the flaw in the argument; that it depends on reasonably constant demand as well. The Government figures that I can find actually support the fact that there has, so far, been little fall-off in that since the start of the latest round of price rises. Something empirically supported by no noticeable drop-off in the school-run round here ;-) )
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We were chatting about this in our family WhatsApp. The price of a litre of fuel.
But then compared it to the price of litres of other items especially when you take into account what is involved in the process of getting that litre of petrol to your car.
Petrol £1.90 ish
Coke £1
Hz Ketchup £3
Vinegar £3.60
San Pellegrino £1
Olive Oil £3
Channel Chance £1857
Pub beer £6
Bottle wine £6
Bottle Spirits £10
Tippex £50 (very random)
Suddenly doesn’t feel that expensive for what’s involved.
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Who the hell still uses Tipex? Is there even a market for it?
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The alternative product to Tippex was called Snopake.
One of the typists at work circa 1980 occasionally sported a t-shirt with the slogan cover your boobs with Snopake.
You'd have needed a lot more than a litre in her case....
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 10 Jun 22 at 08:40
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>> Bottle Spirits £10
>> Tippex £50 (very random)
>> Suddenly doesn’t feel that expensive for what’s involved.
A litre of tap water is 0.308p.
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>>Pub beer £6
Where do you drink? My local's just been re-furbished and the prices have risen accordingly to £4.50 a pint. I was in a 'spoons last night and they had Ruddles at £1.49.
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>> Where do you drink? My local's just been re-furbished and the prices have risen accordingly
>> to £4.50 a pint. I was in a 'spoons last night and they had Ruddles
>> at £1.49.
I think you are being short changed, I would want to be paid more than that for being forced to drink a pint of Ruddles. AND a bonus on top for being in a spoons
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You do know your pub only gives you a pint for that £4.50 cost, not a litre??
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>> You do know your pub only gives you a pint for that £4.50 cost, not
>> a litre??
You'll be lucky to get anything like a pint. Nearly all pubs now use brim measure glasses and underfill them.
If you have such a glass in your cupboard, tip a 500ml bottle into it and compare with what you get in your local pub. A pint, from memory, is 567ml.
This is why pubs like handpumps. Those old to and fro dispensers chucked out half a pint a stroke and oversize glasses were the norm.
In fact the Old Grindstone in Sheffield had one with a pint cylinder on it. The only one I ever saw.
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>>
>> Suddenly doesn’t feel that expensive for what’s involved.
>>
One rarely buys 50 litres of olive oil, coke etc at a time. A 10 pence per litre increase in coke prices over a couple of bottles is going to cost 20 pence if you buy 2 litres a week. If you buy 50 litres of petrol a week (like me) a 10 pence increase is going to cost an extra £5 a week / £20 a month.
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At the end of the day I guess we just have to get on with it and reconcile ourselves to the fact that we are getting poorer. A few quid from the government isnt going to make much difference one way or the other. It’s tougher on some that on others but that’s life.
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Printer ink, one of the biggest rip-offs in the world, is £2,500+ per litre for branded juice.
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>>
>> Printer ink, one of the biggest rip-offs in the world, is £2,500+ per litre for
>> branded juice.
Now if the same EU department that is harmonising mobile device connectors could work on that..I pay £25 or so for 4 'compatible' cartridges with the chip in (Brother) and that must still be £200 a litre.
It's nagging me to update its software. Not on your nelly!
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Never touching another HP printer.
They 'measure' ink by counting pages printed then locking the cartridge.
Epson appear less evil.
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My Epson (XP-820) said it *must* have maintenance by them a few hundred sheets ago (it really doesn't get used THAT much).
I found an app on the web to reset it (for free) but apparently it will come up again and the same app can then free it permanently for a small fee (£7 IIRC).
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>> Never touching another HP printer.
>> They 'measure' ink by counting pages printed then locking the cartridge.
I found this out many years ago. They pre-arrange the printer by pumping ink into a 'tampon' so you don't have to wait for it to go through a start up process.
Google's your friend to overcome this. although it does mean rinsing loads of printer ink down the sink by cleaning out the 'tampon'.
I found black, printer ink on e-bay and used a re-fill pack to re-fill my cartridge that cost pennies over the last few years. I can do this several times with the same cartridge before it objects. I don't bother with colour. It can be a little messy, but you learn with experience.
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My Epsom printer has printer ink tanks that you refill from bottles. So no jerrymandering going on with number of pages printed and the printer deciding it needs new printer cartridges, etc. Although I daren't work out what the ink costs per litre...
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>> My Epsom printer has printer ink tanks that you refill from bottles.
>>
...I thought you could just fill those up with salt(s)...
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> ...I thought you could just fill those up with salt(s)...
Only by 3 year olds on first Saturday in June.
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Just returned from the Western Isles (Lewis/Harris) where at some sites petrol was more than diesel although both are in the mid £1.80ies.
Thought at first it was an oddity when using the automatic pump at An Clachan in Leverburgh which dispenses by money rather than volume. You select an amount on the console together with fuel type and it delivers (say) £20 worth. Precautionary purchase on Sunday when no shop or filling station on Harris is actually open.
It was though similar at the filling station just off the mountains ad Aird Asaig and on Lewis. A newish filling station there, named Engerbrets, opens on Sunday. In a place where one is not supposed to hang out washing on a Sunday that's a big step.
The lady in the crafts shop at Bac, who also opens on Sunday, told us Mr Engerbret is ex Norwegian Special Forces and was not intimidated by the Free Church's insistence on observation of the Sabbath. It's also said that lockdown has begun to ease the influence of the (several) Free Churches, on locals.
We did though see several elderly ladies scurrying off to church with bibles and prayer books gathered under their arms on the Eye last Sunday; tradition is not yet lost completely.
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>> Thought at first it was an oddity when using the automatic pump at An Clachan
>> in Leverburgh which dispenses by money rather than volume. You select an amount on the
>> console together with fuel type and it delivers (say) £20 worth.
Most, if not all Tesco fuel stations have those pumps.
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>> Most, if not all Tesco fuel stations have those pumps.
Nothing like Tesco pumps; no option to brim it or take a found quantity of litres. You are obliged to pay your £20 or whatever in advance.
There are two pumps and a separate control console which processes the card transaction and allows the user to select pump 1 for diesel and 2 for unleaded.
It seems to be a bespoke solution for remote rural pumps. There was a similar set up at the Uig store/filling station at Timsgarraidh on Lewis. I suspect the link is that both are community enterprises and neither can afford the risk of drive aways.
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I first came across these in the States some years back. I wanted to brim the rental but had no idea of how much it would take. They give you cash back if you don't use all you've paid for. Pretty common out there in my experience.
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>> I first came across these in the States some years back. I wanted to brim
>> the rental but had no idea of how much it would take. They give you
>> cash back if you don't use all you've paid for. Pretty common out there in
>> my experience.
>>
I have two specific memories of this in the USA.
One in the wilds of Indiana when pulling up to a rural gas station I went in to pay up front and and said "hello". The elderly lady almost ran off from the "foreigner" that dared to cross her forecourt.
On the way back to the airport, I wanted to put just a gallon in to make sure I got back over the last 10 miles - work got me a return empty hire car.
I was in suburban Chicago and probably not the best area. I went in to the gas station and said "just $5 worth on number 6 please" and the big beautiful black lady beamed back at me in a friendly manner and mocking my accent with a "Michael Caine" type effort said "Sure honey!" or something similar. Made us both smile - it's nice to be nice.
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>> It seems to be a bespoke solution for remote rural pumps. There was a similar
>> set up at the Uig store/filling station at Timsgarraidh on Lewis. I suspect the link
>> is that both are community enterprises and neither can afford the risk of drive aways.
Seen something similar in in the depth of deliverance banjo country, sorry I meant Lincolnshire.
Something to do with no mobile data link.
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Two of us over in the Irish Republic a couple of weeks ago. We crossed briefly into Northern Ireland via Warren Point. Filling up there we had to potentially (but not actually) had to pay up front. Bit of a faff on a bike that. I guessed it was due to drive offs..
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When I flew home from Spain April 1st there were long queues at the filling station nearest the airport....I always fill up there and rent on a ‘full to full’ basis. Apparently on that date the Spanish Govt introduced a 20cent per litre subsidy which I wasn’t aware of.
When I returned after my second trip on 27 May the subsidy was still in place....the girl at the rental return office thought the subsidy would continue for some time, citing ‘civil disobedience ‘, her words, if it was dropped !
Late 2021 I was paying sub €1 litre for diesel in Spain at the cheapest pump it yourself filling station in Benissa.
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Filled up my 5 litre petrol can for the lawnmower yesterday. First time I've filled up since at least this time last year.
I filled it with E5 as recommended, as E10 has a short shelf life (as well as rotting rubber, etc) and 5 litres will probably last me at least another year.
Cost just shy of £9 to fill it up with Tesco Momentum. Pretty sure it cost me around £5 to fill it up last year with standard E5 unleaded.
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I saw a petrol station that had diesel cheaper than petrol, i think it was about 3p cheaper. Can't say i see that too often.
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>> I saw a petrol station that had diesel cheaper than petrol, i think it was about 3p cheaper.
Tesco Abingdon.
Diesel 179.9
Unleaded E10 173.9
Super unleaded E5 (Momentum) 182.9
Just 100 yards around the corner, the Esso garage has diesel priced at 192.9
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Fuel Prices - legacylad
