A friend is about to buy another A3, possibly her 4th..current one is a 66 plate 2.0 Tdi 184 with Quattro transmission as standard. Mileage 56k. There is the possibility of her selling it to a mutual friend, who knows zilch about cars but has had a succession of Golf 2.0 Tdis.
The Audi has S Tronic...is this the potentially problematic box or was that on earlier cars?
Rightly or wrongly I’ve avoided VAG group autos and I’m asking on behalf of a friend. Honestly !
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If that's the same as the DSG 'box the 6-speed is more reliable than the 7-speed. All need a gearbox oil change at 40k miles. The big issue is when the mechatronic unit goes west - a £1500 job.
Saying that, I've had 3 DSGs; two Skodas and a VW. All have gone well past 100,000 miles with no problems. On a 56k Audi I wouldn't worry.
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Mate has a Merc ML280 with the 7-G gearbox (I know not a DSG)- the mechatronic failed and MB wanted 2 grand to replace it.
He posted it to a company in England who fixed it/warranted the repair, and returned it for a few hundred quid.
Been fine since (was 2 or 3 years ago).
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 3 Aug 21 at 23:58
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In certain places they get a bad press but I had a 6 speed wet-clutch on my previous Golf TDi for over 14 years without any issues, and now have a 7 speed one on my GTi.
As has been said, you must have the service every 40K (not time based) plus don't sit with them in D for any length of time.
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I've finally remembered the idiot 'brands' Audi used for its gearboxes.
Tiptronic - conventional auto with paddle switches
Multitronic - CVT
S-Tronic /DSG - dual clutch
My daughter has a now 9 year old 3.0 diesel A6 Avant DSG (lots of torque) and the DSG in that has been reliable, although I don't think it has mega miles on it. Of course it's a wet clutch job.
Our Popemobile has a 7 speed dry clutch (DQ200) 'box which is OK at 30,000 miles, but I wouldn't buy a second hand one. Too easy for the ignorant to have abused by holding it on the 'creep'. The same could apply to the wet clutch 'boxes but I have the impression they might be a bit tougher.
The mechatronic bits probably fail when the gearbox is repeatedly overheated either by hard driving or abuse as above. Not to mention the clutch wear. The gearboxes shut down when they are too hot but logically it is a matter of degree (haha), too much heat is bad.
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>> If that's the same as the DSG 'box the 6-speed is more reliable than the
>> 7-speed.
If by that you mean the 6 speed DQ250 vs. the 7 speed DQ200 (concentric single plate dry clutches AFAIK) then that would be my assumption. But there is also a 7 speed wet clutch DSG, DQ500, which is essentially a bigger DQ250 (daughter's car has one I think, it's certainly a 7 speed and not a DQ200).
There may well be newer variants since I looked into this about 7 years ago!
I'd want to know which gearbox the A3 has were I considering buying it. I've leave it alone if it's the dry clutch one
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Our A3 e-tron had a replacement mechatronics unit under warranty. From memory it was around two and a half years old at the time, and had less than 40k miles on the clock. Having said that, it was a cracking car and I’d have another one. I’m not sure what version of the DSG box it had, and shamefully can’t even remember if it was 6 or 7 speed…
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Little wonder I shunned VAG products and went for a car with a proper, reliable gearbox, one where you dont have to nurse and worry about how you use it.
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>>one where you dont have to nurse and worry about how you use it.
Not an unreasonable thing to say when you know how the DQ200, especially, works.
I've always thought they were a bodge because of the way they are programmed to mimic a proper auto which necessitates slipping a friction clutch. I have to say my daughter's does a much better job of impersonating a proper auto than our little dry clutch job - if it's the DQ500 it's built for a lot more torque and has more plates in the clutches, that would be the one to go for.
In the modern era they were originally developed by Porsche for racing, the benefit being the millisecond changes on the move. One doesn't normally use racing cars in stop-start traffic.
Of course the millisecond changes apply when the correct gear has been pre-selected. On the, thankfully rare, occasions when it hasn't there can be a clunky, clangy delay while it sorts itself out.
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As some of you will know, I manage a small team of people who are entitled to company cars. We have about ten of them on the road at any one time. We tend to keep the cars for 5 years or 200,000 miles whichever comes first.
It's a user chooser scheme within a budget. In the mix over the years, the most common mechanical failures have come from VAG automatic gearboxes. So much so that we now stipulate that if anyone wants a VAG model, then it must be a manual.
Oddly enough though, the cars fitted with Ford Powershift gearboxes haven't given any problems at all, despite their similarly patchy reputation.
As an outlier, we had one Insignia that had an auto box failure at quite low mileage, not sure what manner of gearbox that was.
Not that it's a big sample to go from, but it might indicate at least a direction of travel.
Based on that limited experience though, I'd not spend my own money on a car fitted with a VAG auto box. Rightly or wrongly.
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>> It's a user chooser scheme within a budget. In the mix over the years, the
>> most common mechanical failures have come from VAG automatic gearboxes. So much so that we
>> now stipulate that if anyone wants a VAG model, then it must be a manual.
A previous employer was about to do the same thing as I left. I believe it was implemented shortly after.
It was a combination of poor reliability of the DSG, and the apparent inability of the dealer network to diagnose and fix them.
One colleague had a CC with the 2.0 TDI 177 engine and the DSG box. It had a nasty habit of going into neutral under hard acceleration which, the first time it happened, almost caused an accident. The dealer had it back multiple times and couldn't fix it. In the end, the company sent the car back to the lease company. Presumably some poor schmuck bought the thing at auction (perhaps via a trader) and inherited this misery.
They were always going wrong in one way or another. By contrast the ZF auto BMWs were faultless. Although the BMW manuals were not (lots of clutch/DMF issues).
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>> In the modern era they were originally developed by Porsche for racing, the benefit being
>> the millisecond changes on the move. One doesn't normally use racing cars in stop-start traffic.
VAG, in the end had to bite the bullet, for hi torque and power applications and where space and config allows, fit the ZF8, a gearbox where I pat the selector every time I snick it from park to drive in awe and wonder at its all round abilities.
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Won’t it just put itself into park automatically when you turn the ignition off…?
It’s a cracking ‘box though, but the 8 speed slush box unit they used to use in the MINI (Aisin?) is comprehensively trounced by the 7 speed DCT unit used since 2018ish. I / We’ve had three cars with dual clutch transmissions - and Audi, a Seat and the MINI. Despite the problems with the A3 I’d have another as they suit the character of smallish powerfulish cars very well.
I rather hope the one in our A3 was a 7 speed one actually (must check later) as then I can say I’ve had cars with 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 speed gearboxes. As well as 3,4,5,6 and 8 cylinders. Need knock off 2 cylinder (maybe one of those small FIATs) and perhaps 10 (though as that means Audi, BMW, Lamborghini that might be unrealistic now….).
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>> Won’t it just put itself into park automatically when you turn the ignition off…?
It does, even if its clicked over to the left in sports mode, turn off the engine and it flicks the lever back to normal and selects park. It even selects park if you try and reverse with the door open.
Mind it will need a gearbox service around the 60-80k mark. A pan/filter/fluid kit is around the 500 quid mark.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 4 Aug 21 at 15:54
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>>I rather hope the one in our A3 was a 7 speed one actually (must check later) as then I can say I've had cars with 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 speed gearboxes. As well as 3,4,5,6 and 8 cylinders. Need knock off 2 cylinder (maybe one of those small FIATs) and perhaps 10 (though as that means Audi, BMW, Lamborghini that might be unrealistic now....).
Interesting. Not much point in me talking about no. of speeds in the box, I couldn't even tell you what my current cars have.
Cylinders though;
1 - FS1E
2 - Matchless G12
3 - KH250
4 - loads of cars
5 - Old Audi 100
6 - BMW 528i
7 - don't think so
8 - Dodge RAM
9 - don't think so
10 - Phaeton
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We currently have 9 on the drive, 3 in the Ford and 6 in the Beemer. Cylinders that is, not gears.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 4 Aug 21 at 16:27
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Ha !
11 here
Raspberry !!!!
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Yeah but thats only an average of 3.6 each.
>> Raspberry !!!!
Yeah, have it back.
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The three on my drive total 12 cylinders, but boringly each only has 4. A combined 567bhp though. Combined they also have 21 gears. So the average is 189bhp and 7 gears, which is almost exactly what the MINI has (192 bhp and 7 gears).
The 1.4 litre 4 cylinder engine in the A2 develops 75 bhp - nearly 54 per litre. The 2 litre in the Merc 300 bhp - 150 per litre. Has a turbo mind, unlike the rather pedestrian A2. As a better like for like comparison the normally aspirated 1 litre engine in our VW Up! developed 75 bhp (in 2012). A 50% improvement in output / litre in not that long really.
Back in 1990 when I bought my first car the the on my parents drive were a Fiat UNO 55 (55 bhp / 1.1 litre) a Vauxhall Cavalier 1.6 GL (82 bhp / 1.6 litre) and a BMW 525i (189 bhp / 2.5 litre). An average of 108 bhp. And not that dissimilar mix of cars, though a Cavalier SRi with, from memory, 115bhp might have been a better equivalent to the MINI!
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18 gears, and, 3 turbos.
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 4 Aug 21 at 16:52
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Phttt
9 cylinders, two turbos, and 50 gears. (36 on the two bikes)
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...or maybe 2. More than one anyway...
;-)
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...if we're going to count bikes...
Well now...
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 4 Aug 21 at 16:58
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...now it only needs the EV Fanboyz with their no cylinders and no gears...... ;-)
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102 ( in case you were wondering )
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Actually, its 150, my apologies, forgot about the ones in the shed...
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>> ...forgot about the ones in the shed...
>>
....I thought it was Z that had the caravan.....?
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That's more of a hut than a shed isn't it?
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 4 Aug 21 at 17:16
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Crossover Camping Vehicle.
Peasants
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What does crossover actually mean, in the context of a caravan?
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>> What does crossover actually mean, in the context of a caravan?
I dunno, Its whats its called, It has as much descriptive accuracy as a Sports Utility Vehicle.
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Transitioning to a caravanist presumably.
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>> Transitioning to a caravanist presumably.
It means no chintzy curtains, button stuffed seats, nylon carpet or woodgrain formica.
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>> What does crossover actually mean, in the context of a caravan?
>>
...it's what it does to the lane markings when it gets a snake on down the motorway.....
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with over two tonnes of loco, and only 1200 kilos of coaching stock, its on rails my son - on rails.
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On the drive at this moment there are 20 cylinders and 14 litres, an average of 6.7 cylinders and 4.7 litres per car.
I have no clue about gears or bhp. but there are 4 bikes out there so there's a s***load of gears.
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Bit lightweight on the bikes then?
;-)
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Ok - recount
On the drive we have 11 cylinders. 6 in the beemer, 3 in the fester, and two gas cylinders in the CCV
Capacity wise thats 48 litres. 24 in the gas canisters, !0 in the cistern, 10 in the toilet cassette, 3 in the beemer and 1 in the fester
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Ok look, if we just stick to cars and portable huts, ( I'm not going to take the bike high ground, it just blows you out of the water frankly )
You've got 9 cylinders and 10 wheels or 0.9 cylinders per wheel. I've got 11 cylinders and 12 wheels or 0.92 cylinders per wheel.
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How many door mirrors do you currently have.
Talking of wheels, We have 10, of those damaged 0 so thats 100% undamaged........
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Haven't you heard of patina? Very trendy these days you know.
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Anyway, I'm off to make toad in the hole, any views as to the ideal ratio of toads to holes?
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...1 to 1 mate...
(I fear I might have misunderstood the question, though :-O )
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How much Yorkshire pud can you eat, and how many snorkers have you got?
2 people -
4 oz. plain flour
2 eggs
half a pint of milk and water
pinch of salt
1lb sausages
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Thanks for replies re the S Tronic box.
She’s going to p/ex it, although WBAC offered more on paper when I put in the vehicle details. Good job it didn’t have a sunroof otherwise I’d have been ever so slightly tempted..I can think of worse things than a Tdi 184 Quattro to drive to Spain in.
The replacement Audi is ‘Python Yellow’. And it goes like stink.
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She sent me photos of her brand new S3 yesterday. Bottled the ‘Python Yellow’ and bought a white one. I am disappoint, but she’s not a ‘look at me’ girlie so makes sense.
Looking forward to a ride in it next week.
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>> It’s a cracking ‘box though, but the 8 speed slush box unit they used to
>> use in the MINI (Aisin?) is comprehensively trounced by the 7 speed DCT unit used
>> since 2018ish. I / We’ve had three cars with dual clutch transmissions - and Audi,
>> a Seat and the MINI. Despite the problems with the A3 I’d have another as
>> they suit the character of smallish powerfulish cars very well.
We have a 2020 Mini JCW and it has the 8 speed Aisin slusher.
It's good, but nowhere near as good as the ZF8 in the RWD BMW stuff.
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>> It's good, but nowhere near as good as the ZF8 in the RWD BMW stuff.
Not just used in BMW stuff now. Even VAG are using them in certain applications.
I think the ZF8 is certainly the best auto in use today and very probably the finest auto box ever produced.
with the proviso: ignore the car makers bold statement that its filled for life. ZF certainly don't claim that. I'll have the pan dropped, filter and fluid changed around the 70-80k mark. Specially towing a shedling.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Aug 21 at 11:46
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>> with the proviso: ignore the car makers bold statement that its filled for life. ZF
>> certainly don't claim that. I'll have the pan dropped, filter and fluid changed around the
>> 70-80k mark. Specially towing a shedling.
Just one fluid change?
MB say to change theirs once at 40,000 miles, I think it is. I am not very comfortable at the thought of leaving that fluid in there indefinately. My car is at 108,000 and I would like another change for peace of mind.
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>> with the proviso: ignore the car makers bold statement that its filled for life. ZF
>> certainly don't claim that. I'll have the pan dropped, filter and fluid changed around the
>> 70-80k mark. Specially towing a shedling.
Fully agree the "sealed for life" thing is nonsense.
If I'd kept mine, I was planning to use it as an excuse to go over to the ZF factory in Dortmund where they will do a complete service for about €500. Analyse the old fluid, strip down a number of components, thoroughly clean everything, replace certain seals and valves, install any modified parts that might have been introduced in later production runs, and rebuild with fresh fluid, reset of the adaptations, a road test and sign off. OK, it's not cheap, but having the work done by the same technicians who build the things gives good peace of mind. And Dortmund isn't a bad place to spend a few days either, plus the ZF guys will throw in a tour as well if you ask nicely.
I know a few people who've done this and all say the transmission is better afterwards than it has ever been, even when new off the production line.
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>> >> with the proviso: ignore the car makers bold statement that its filled for life.
>> ZFcertainly don't claim that. I'll have the pan dropped, filter and fluid changed around
>> the 70-80k mark.
>>
>> Fully agree the "sealed for life" thing is nonsense.
>>
On my X type AWD. The pan cannot be dropped. No filter just a strainer.
Pull the drain plug, top up, run to warm up. Repeat a couple of times.
That should dilute it enough. Smile and be on your way.
Before my mileage dropped to almost nowt I planned to get it mega flushed.( dialysised )
The transfer box is sealed for life. IIRC no easy way of drain and replace.
Just two items on the rubbish design list.
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Audi A3 Sportback - S Tronic box reliability - Dave_
