Motoring Discussion > Hydrgen powered vehicles Miscellaneous
Thread Author: henry k Replies: 14

 Hydrgen powered vehicles - henry k
JCB have suggested that hydrogen is the fuel we must go for re trucks etc.
They have put an interesting case for continuing to produce existing ICE engines adapted for Hydrogen
The latest Harrys Garage is worth a view.
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - VxFan
That'll please James May, who has just bought a newer Hydrogen powered Toyota Mirai to replace his old Mirai, and his nearest filling station is miles away.

youtu.be/v99AthjW78U
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - Lygonos
JCB should be making electric diggers/excavators - huge power potential and ideal for vehicles that sit idle much of the day.

But then there's be no red diesel I guess.

Hydrogen is a dead end for most applications even using a fuel cell - burning it in an engine is insane.
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - henry k
>> JCB should be making electric diggers/excavators - huge power potential and ideal for vehicles that sit idle much of the day.
>>
Have a look at the videos. JCB do make appropriate electric jobs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Q7nAYjAJY

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDKLoLUQgH0
skip the first 20 mins

>>Hydrogen is a dead end for most applications
JCB do not agree
>>even using a fuel cell
JCB agree withyou
>>- burning it in an engine is insane.
JCB totally disagree.
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - Lygonos

>> burning it in an engine is insane.
JCB totally disagree.

And they're totally wrong.

Where they going to get all their H2 from? The infinite supply of green leccy (which would be better used in battery), or reforming natural gas (which produces CO2)?
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - zippy
JCB probably need a differentiator to make their product stand out and for potentially selfish reasons, a hydrogen burning engine is likely to be easier to integrate in to their existing equipment.

Hydraulic fluid is pumped so I guess an electric pump would do it.

I guess, the cost of hydrogen burning engines are going to be a lot cheaper than a huge capacity battery pack. I wish I could see a Perkins Engines price list.

I wonder if hydraulic systems would be needed given the potential torque of electric motors?

Stick a motor on each moving component / joint and wire it up and that might be a solution - the machines would probably look fuggly though.

I was looking at the forward order book of some of my clients in the JCB component supply chain just last week and didn't see any material changes over the next 6 months.
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - Zero

>> Where they going to get all their H2 from? The infinite supply of green leccy
>> (which would be better used in battery),

Why? And nope. At least you wont be poisoning the earth disposing of the H2. And you wont have to dig up the earth or be held to ransom by the Chinese using H2

I bet if you had an H2 car like James May you'd be bouncing to a different diagnosis doc.
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - Lygonos
H2 car is a (small) battery EV with an onboard powerstation, it just happens to run on H2.

It is about 35% as efficient as using the leccy to make the H2, as it is to charge a battery.


If they could make a fuel cell that ran on bio-ethanol as fuel then I think that could be the jump FCEVs need but they seem quite far back in development and fuel cells are insanely complex, use more expensive materials than a decent battery pack, and needs very specific servicing arrangements.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-ethanol_fuel_cell#Recent_accomplishments


I think battery chemistry will rapidly outpace fuel cell development and hydrogen production capabilities - Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries aren't quite as energy dense as the cobalt containing Li ion but are already in use in Tesla's Chinese built Model 3. Last year's prices were as low as $80/kWh.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery

Hydrogen is a dead end without near limitless power to create it, compress it, and transport it around - power which is easier to shove through the national grid and into your 240V plug at home.

>>I bet if you had an H2 car like James May you'd be bouncing to a different diagnosis doc.

I'd be unable to fill it up - I think the nearest 'pump' is in Aberdeen.
Also look like a ballache for servicing:

www.greencarreports.com/news/1111440_how-do-you-service-a-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-at-a-dealer
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - Zero

>> Also look like a ballache for servicing:

Tried to get parts for your EV's or have them serviced outside the channel lately?
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - Lygonos
Not a lot to service and MG parts availability seems ok for the few issues I have seen on the owner's FB page.
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - henry k

>> >> Also look like a ballache for servicing:
>>
>> Tried to get parts for your EV's or have them serviced outside the channel lately?
>>
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVSw3KSevEc
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - henry k
>>Also look like a ballache for servicing:

www.greencarreports.com/news/1111440_how-do-you-service-a-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-at-a-dealer

The JCB engine is a conventional diesel engine with a modified head and fuel delivery system fed from a pressurised tank.
The link above appears to be for a fuel cell not a diesel engine.


 Hydrgen powered vehicles - bathtub tom
>>Where they going to get all their H2 from?

Where are all the materials to manufacture batteries coming from?
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - Terry
Cars typically run for 30-60 minutes a day and drive less than 10k pa. A few cover much higher or lower mileages.

Batteries are the future as the infrastructure for their use is wholly proven and largely in place - some improvements are required to increase capacity over the next 2-20 years.

HGVs and JCBs work much harder for a living. An HGV running 400 miles will use 50-60 gallons of fuel. Operating a JCB for 12 hours may use a similar amount.

About 5-8 times as much fuel/power as required for a car. Compared to a car with a 200 mile range they would need battery packs ~10-15 times the size.

This would need very high capacity charging. The consequences of running out of charge means goods not delivered on time and work not completed leaving other resources on site idle. H2 could be a viable option - depending upon how rapidly battery technology develops.
 Hydrgen powered vehicles - Kevin
Big earthmoving equipment, and I mean the BIG stuff are currently all electric. Either diesel-electric like haul trucks or full electric for stuff that moves within a limited range like shovels. There are also haul trucks that operate diesel-electric at the loading end of their cycle and then raise a pantograph to pick up overhead lines when they leave the loading area.

www.e-mj.com/breaking-news/erzberg-breaks-ground-for-haul-truck-trolley-system/

Anglo American and Williams Engineering started development of a H2 fuel cell lithium-ion battery powered haul truck last year.

thedriven.io/2020/02/26/worlds-biggest-electric-dump-truck-to-start-testing-in-africa/

It's been delayed due to CV-19 restrictions but the fuel tank was being completed a few weeks ago.

www.nproxx.com/case-study-hydrogen-powered-mine-truck-for-anglo-american-mine/

Other manufacturers like Komatsu and Caterpillar are starting to move in that direction too.
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