The missus and I are thinking of maybe getting a caravan. If nothing else, it passes the time looking at lots of adverts etc just now!
When I was young, we always had a Tourer ranging from Eccles Sapphire, Astral Ranger, Cygnet and latterly my dad finished off with a Bailey.
The Bailey had WC/ shower and dad had installed a remote mover thing ( which pinned the caravan to a tree as he had the mover upside down but that’s another story…..)
We would initially be looking at a used sub 5 grand van and from what I can see that would get us similar in spec to the Bailey my dad finished with.
Would appreciate any input / thoughts from any caravanners / ex caravanners on here with what to look for / what to avoid/ learning points etc. We would most likely have the Labrador with us ( which is partly the reason we ruled out a camper van early on).
Would be towing with my X1 automatic - I remember days of old touring with autos was frowned upon due to heat build up and gearbox searching for right gears? Is that still an issue?
From what I can see, tow limits are 750kg / 2000kg. Are caravans now heavier than of old due to more features or are they now using lighter materials?
I see many caravans have a different tow at set up to the old style “ squeeze the lever at the side” - seems to be a long handle type thing? Are bolted on stabilisers still a thing or are they integrated now?
From the car perspective, does it matter what kind of tow ball I would get? Do they interfere with reversing sensors when not towing?
Think that’s enough questions for starters!
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Working at the moment so cannot fully reply. Wil work up something considered later - unless others beat me to it.
It would be helpful to be reminded how many kids you have and how old.
IME £5k won't get you that much. Have you looked at dealer stock?
That's if there is any; they're selling like hot cakes right now.
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No kids to come though a 4 berth might be handy in case of visitors ( I like the idea of having a fixed bed and therefore only using the sitting area when needed.
Going to go a wander round a nearby dealer over weekend but I am also seeing quite a few locally through Facebook pages. Which I find are more secure than gumtree and eBay to a certain extent.
That’s another couple of questions, how do you check for ownership? And mechanical / chassis checks? ( I am thinking cosmetics / damp etc may be more visible with the right amount of poking around).
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An automatic is far the best and easiest thing to tow with, although I wouldn't do it with a dual clutch type or other automated manual.
If you do any manoeuvring, towing is very hard on friction clutches.
Movers are good.
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>> Movers are good.
Essential, A towing course is good too
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>> Essential, A towing course is good too
We initially thought with two fit adults and a small caravan just over 1,000kg moving it would be easy. First time in France we were on a pitch with longish and wet grass. Even with three adults, our son, then 19, was out with us, we got it stuck but managed to swing it around it's axis so we could re-hitch it to the car.
Mover went on as soon as we came back.
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Provided you get a proper towbar wired in by a pro the beemer will know when a van is attached and the gearbox will select torque mode and the rear parking sensors will disable, it may even change the ESP stability mode, mine does and stiffens up the rear air springs
Vans are sought after right now, prices are sky high no discounts on new, I can sell mine for more than I paid for it, £5k will get you a damp chicken shed Avoid. In fact now is a very bad time to get one,
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 17 Jun 21 at 16:43
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I would go for a folding or detachable tow bar if possible.
Apart from the capacity to damage other cars in close quarter manoeuvring it's easy and painful to bark your shins while using the boot.
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Here’s one relatively local for listed £6k.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SWIFT-LIFESTYLE-555-FIXED-BED-TOURING-CARAVAN-/234024510785?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
Thoughts?
Think I would want to replace any mattress on a fixed bed anyway. Not the most modern of interior colours but I guess that comes with the age.
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LQQKS pretty good to me - go and check it out and let your eyes (and nose) be the judge.
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>>We would most likely have the Labrador with us ( which is partly the reason we ruled out a camper van early on).
What was the logic there?
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Much more physical floor space for a dog to move around in / lie down out the way etc. (I’m talking smaller van type conversions than all singing all dancing huge camper vans.)
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As Z says for that kind of money you are looking at the damp and/or delaminated floor categories.
Now is not a good time to buy.
Unless you know what you are looking for damp can be difficult to detect without a proper damp meter. Top corners, around windows and front and back where the roof meets the vertical panels are common places.
Parts are far more difficult to almost impossible to source nothing like cars. Also costly particularly exterior trim, windows and main front and back panels. Cosmetic changes are almost annual.
Caravans are fragile, doesn't take much to do expensive damage.
That van you linked to looks fairly decent but I'd be inclined to get a professional inspection if you can. At least budget for a set of new tyres and full service. 5 years is about the right time to change them due to the rubber cracking and long periods of sitting on one part of the tyre.
The stabilisers you are talking about are now built into the hitch head which clamps onto the tow ball with friction discs providing the necessary damping.
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We've just sold our caravan and are moving to a campervan.
The first question is ... when did you pass your driving test. If after 1997, you may need to take a towing test. Or be very limited on the car/caravan combination.
There is an excellent forum at www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/
You will need to find the approx kerb weight of the car. The recommendation is that you buy a caravan with a maximum weight of up to 85% of the car's kerb weight.
Stabilisers are now built into the tow head. And later caravan also come with ATC (applies the caravan brakes if it detects a 'snake').
I highly recommend the caravan club practical manoeuvring course. Even if you don't do the course, buy the manual - it's packed full of great tips.
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We, or rather I, had a yen for a caravan a few years ago. We caravanned frequently when the kids were small, and travelled all over the UK and Europe with some very happy memories.
We had our last van for two years. In addition to the purchase cost there is the cost of insurance, storage if you need it, tow bar and other kit required, membership and site fees, additional fuel costs etc. Then of course the extended travel time, and time in siting as well as the constraints on where you can and cant go. Then when on site the joys of living in what is effectively a large garden shed in which you sleep, sit, cook and perform your ablutions.
Our sale was forced on us by a significant medical issue but we have never regretted moving the van on. We now use AirBnB and can go where we like, or not at all, and have flushing toilets, interior sprung mattresses etc and turn up to a clean, comfortable place to stay, have a good time, and then shut the door and away. We would never go back to caravanning.
With £5k to spend, my advice is don't bother. You will be very lucky to get anything worthwhile for that sort of money and run a significant risk of buying a heap of problems - old, tired, dirty, rotten, rusty, mechanically below par etc.
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I totally agree with Lemma.
I had a couple of caravans decades ago, when it was quite cheap. I gave up when it started to get expensive. I had storage at home, but site fees, insurance, towbar costs, fuel costs, etc. made it cheaper to rent self catering.
I would never consider a motor caravan, because you'd have to find a level plot (unless you carried multiple levelling blocks), You were in danger of losing your plot unless you had an awning and when you went out, why would you want to tour around in a damn, great, big bus?
OK, you could tow something small behind, but when you look at the price of of motor caravans compared to caravans?????????????????????
On retirement, I had a notion of buying a caravan and storing it, at say Cornwall and driving down to tow it to a site. Moving it on to another and then storing it until the next year. Then, perhaps, storing it in Devon and doing the same, etc, etc. SWMBO put the mockers on that when she decided she liked sleeping in a fixed bed!
One more thought, when looking at old caravans, examine, very closely, the timber around the door. It will be hidden behind trim, but you can soon tell by applying leverage in different directions if it's rotten. How do I know this?????????????
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Thu 17 Jun 21 at 23:11
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You'll not have been using air bnb much during the last two years, in fact the only people getting guaranteed holidays have been caravaners, hence the sky high prices and long waiting lists for new vans
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Get a tent. And an plastic orange trowel.
Each to their own.
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>> You'll not have been using air bnb much during the last two years,
SWMBO was classed as Clinically Extremely Vulnerable (CEV) at the start, so we barely ventured beyond the front door and certainly not considered holidaying. Folk we know have been away and reported resorts are crowded, restaurants have to be booked weeks in advance and one B & B had closed the dining room as they couldn't maintain social distancing between the guests.
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>On retirement, I had a notion of buying a caravan and storing it, at say Cornwall..
I was going to say that I can't really see the point of a caravan unless you're using it as a tool like Zero, spending regular nights away indulging a hobby or interest. Certainly not for holidays. Then I thought of my intention a while ago of buying a boat. All the problems of a caravan and then some.
We currently have a severe case of holiday withdrawal and were hoping to get a few weeks sailing in the Med this summer but as things are going it doesn't look like we'll manage it. I'm not fit enough yet to handle anything of a comfortable size on my own.
BTW. Does anyone have a "Wife Manual" I can borrow? Mine's started making a whining noise every time it rains.
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>> BTW. Does anyone have a "Wife Manual" I can borrow? Mine's started making a whining
>> noise every time it rains.
If the depreciation and cost to change wasn't so hellish on the old one, I'd say get a new model
Boats, a hole in the water you keep filling with money, tho having said that our friends with the gin Palace cat sailed over to the island Monday, and we met them for a spur of the moment evening BBQ on the beach
My van was bought as a tool yes, but suddenly became much more versatile in the circumstances, has done 7 days of dog stuff and 40 days of getaway sanity repair
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>>
>> There is an excellent forum at www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/
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Best bit of info in the thread.
If you've been away from caravanning for a while and you've got £5k to spend, it's much more important to choose where you're buying from than the actual van layout. With a bit of flexibility, you'll make anything work. Don't expect to get your ideal van for £5K; think of it as a stepping stone, perhaps like your first car purchase. Don't buy private and do use your credit card so you can do a section 75 on the seller if it all goes the shape of the pear.
German cars seem to be prone to attracting caravan electrics that aren't wired correctly for a UK van, e.g. fridge wiring incomplete or missing and battery charging from the cigarette lighter wire. Another good reason for buying from a dealer.
Finally, stabilisers are now included in the hitch head, but the towball needs to be paint-free and cleaned meticulously before each hitch. One day I hope someone with more brains than me will explain how the four 5p-sized pads bearing on the hitch are an improvement on the saucer-sized blade-type stabiliser, but it all seems to work OK.
Good luck with your project.
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I've had 3 caravans when the kids were younger and it suited our purposes.
The first one was a hurry up purchased Abbey to get away for the Whit weekend. I knew sod all about caravans and got seen off. It had damp in various locations with rotten woodwork. Now I know when we arrived to view why the door was open. It had the damp smell.
Spent many hours repairing, peeling back aluminium, replacing timber and resealing.
The second was an ABI which started to leak around the top front corners. I was able to catch it in time and remove the rails and reseal. Needed new rails as its difficult to get them off without damaging them. Fortunately most caravans are manufactured in this area.
The third was a Coachman. This developed a small crack right in the middle of the GRP front at the top where it goes under the roof. I kept sealing it but replacing a whole front is not really economically viable.
The manufacturing process was not designed to produce something built to last and robust (weight does play a part in this). They have got better but essentially there is ample scope for them to give your wallet some pain.
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Hmmm. My Hilleberg tent is worth almost as much now as it was when I started using it 20 years ago. £350.
No maintenance apart from resealing the seams once a decade.
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Vans are much improved these days, with one piece shells, composite honneycombe floors, and if built well will do you well, if built badly ( this is a bad time with stop start production and staff turn over) it will be a pain forever
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"if built well will do you well, if built badly ( this is a bad time with stop start production and staff turn over) it will be a pain forever"
That very same sentiment is being expressed about static caravans on our site. The best buys are two or three years old.
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Retired neighbour, over the road, spent £3K on a "hailstone damaged roof "caravan - uses it maybe 6 times a year weekends, weeks and maybe a long 3 week trip - so good value.
Neighbour, 3 doors down, has had van for 30 years - newest is 3 years old and is off today for 1 week. I would say, on average, it has sat at the side of the house for 48+ weeks per year for 30 years.
The new van is £20K+. insurance, site fees, annual brake checks etc etc it is a very expensive pastime.
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The 'van Bobby linked to is 15years old. May be a good deal if it's been well looked after but damp is the Achilles Heel of 'vans that age. I'd certainly want it checked. It does however look well equipped and well looked after and may have another few years in it.
The fixed bed arrangement looks like the bedroom is like a cupboard. The person sleeping on the far side is going to have to clamber over their partner every time they get out. Even when I was younger I usually needed a pee at lest once in the night....
Our Xplore 304 has a bed at the front so same issue. It's the one reason we might want to upgrade. Also, with that layout making the bed will be a royal PITA.
Although your car may have a 2 tonne braked towing limit there's a rule of thumb about 85% of kerbweight for newbies and no more than 100% as an absolute limit. Pat, formerly of this parish, was on record as not going over 85% and both she and her husband were artic drivers!!. Loading needs care, to much weight at the back and it can quickly become very unstable indeed. Passing, or being passed by, an LGV can trigger a snake. Personally I've never had more than a brief buffet and that's going at over 60 on a French Autoroute. Our 'van however is well under 80% and being very small has less scope to act like a pendulum.
One other issue on weight is Gross Train Weight - the combined mass of car and 'van. Check your car's GTW limit as in some models it's less than the sum of the 'van's max weight and the car's - you loose payload from the car. Mostly a French thing I think.
We bought ours new in 2014, shortly after I left the Civil Service. Cost around £12k. Quite a bit of other capital outlay for towbar fitting, leisure battery for the 'van, gas cylinders etc. We had a load of camping stuff so unbreakable crockery, glasses etc were ready to go.
It's about £300/pa to insure and we pay £400/pa to store it. Annual Service is a couple of hundred and the PITA of completely emptying it. Say £1k/pa in fixed costs.
We normally get away around half a dozen times for weekends plus a fortnight in France. In the last 12 months we've only been out twice plus the French trip last July. Lost a weekend pre-pandemic as a named storm deterred us. We mostly use Caravan and Motorhome club sites. One of my Yorkshire friends who uses a 'Mister How-Much' icon thinks they're ridiculously expensive but we like knowing what the facilities and pitches are going to be like. Plenty of good smaller sites including the Certificated Locations. Quite a few decent places inside 90minutes from here including the Chilterns, Cotswolds, Rutland(ish) etc. A bit further and there's the New Forest, the Peaks and so on.
The one thing I won't do is take it to the Western Isles - too far and I'm not sure I could back it into a passing place.
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Thanks for all the info folks - lots to chew on here and research further.
With hindsight and taking the advice on here , I do now think that it is the wrong time to buy. Not only due to prices etc but from what I am hearing, many sites are fully booked due to the staycations happening.
I am also thinking, that this may, in reverse mean that next year might be a good time to buy - IF borders are reopened there may be many that will not want to contemplate another year of hime holidays (and to be honest we may also be in the same boat).
But it gives me time to research. The 1k per annum in fixed costs hadn't really dawned on me and even that could translate into half a dozen decent overnights in carefully chosen hotels.
Mmm lots to ponder - thanks to all for your input.
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>> I am hearing, many sites are fully booked due to the staycations happening.
I'd been hearing that too. Everything booked up, at least at weekends, until September.
However a search of the Caravan and Motorhome Club site found a multiple places available for the first weekend in July. At least a dozen from Kent to York within a 180 minute travel time from here.
We booked Black Horse Farm near Folkestone. A nice site we often use as a jumping off point for trips to France. Lots of other stuff to see from Canterbury round to Hastings. Pub and local shop in walking distance.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 20 Jun 21 at 20:24
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Think the booking thing is a little over exaggerated, booked three sites this year, OK I booked early, like 4months before, only aminor juggling of dates required, and only 1 site not available at all.
Another problem this year is gas, supplies are variable, and if you don't have an empty bottle to exchange you ain't getting any, period
This year we have had Devon, nr Woolacombe, currently at Isle of Wight nr Ryde, wife has Wittering booked fir a week (I tow van down, pitch, leave her there for a week with her mates) and we have a week in Suffolk booked, plus 10 days various dog shows
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 21 Jun 21 at 10:10
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The 1k in fixed costs is not a given. Mine is stored on the drive, depreciation is currently zero, servicing is 275 a year, something I would forgo in an older van. Insurance 175. So we are at450
But it's true, you don't caravan because its cheap, it is however much more flexible.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 21 Jun 21 at 10:16
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>> The 1k in fixed costs is not a given. Mine is stored on the drive,
>> depreciation is currently zero, servicing is 275 a year, something I would forgo in an
>> older van. Insurance 175. So we are at450
My insurance is a bit more and we have to store. We're not supposed to have caravans at the house at all and while my neighbours are unbothered by its occasional presence for a week or so I wouldn't push my luck even if I paved the lawn to make space. It's on the drive at the moment as it was emptied for its service. That cost a bit more this time as tyres were 7yo so due for replacement.
We'll take it of somewhere in summer, possibly Scotland after the peak of their hols. OTOH if France goes green and the Frogs will have us without too much hoop jumping we're off to Normandy/Baie de la Somme again.
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Don't forget you now need a green card for the van as well as the car
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>> Think the booking thing is a little over exaggerated, booked three sites this year, OK
>> I booked early, like 4months before, only aminor juggling of dates required, and only 1
>> site not available at all.
Purely out of interest I checked the C&MC for availability 24-31 July; the week after English schools finish. There are 74 sites showing from Devon to the Highlands though I don't know how far availability is up to date for affiliated sites where you book direct. I didn't even touch Certificated Locations.
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...ah, but location, location, location....
I'm currently on site in Devon in the m/h; some days here, followed by some in Cornwall, then some back in the Mendips.
It is fully booked here, and the site in Cornwall; (I think the one in the Mendips is as well) I booked months ago.
Unlike, I suspect, Bobby, I can get away at the drop of a hat, and would happily avoid weekends, but even well into the shoulder season the Club sites are pretty well booked up (unless of course you're prepared to risk the less popular delights of places such as Cheshire or Teesside (an eye-opener even for a seasoned Scot like Bobby) ;-) )
People either do or don't take to caravanning. Now is not the best or most cost-effective time to seek an initial impression.
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So a bit of a fast ball has been dealt to us re caravan thoughts - definitely now parked for this year anyway.
My nephew who lives in Newquay has a spare room if we want to visit there for our holidays - this is an area we were really keen to head to so this offer has now got us thinking. We may take him up on his offer though we wouldn't want to impose ourselves on him for more than a weekend but a quick google suggests there are some camp sites relatively closeby with some availabilty for this time.
We have a large tent (Icarus 500) and it hasn't been used for a couple of years. Will need to get it out the loft and check that the rats didnt treat themselves last year! But if everything is working then seriously considering a camping holiday - we have the fortnight w/b 18 July booked as annual leave.
Could do 5-7 days in Newquay area and then maybe 5 nights halfway back to Scotland - have never done the Lake or Peak districts so would maybe consider there or thereabouts. Need to do some more googling for them.
6 nights at this place www.atlanticreach.co.uk/ would be £210 for an electric hook up pitch which I don't think is too bad for that time of year?
Incidentally, saw in some sites, a tent pitch comes with its own WC and shower and surrounded on 3 sides by hedges to protect from winds - ever so slightly different from our first tent outing in the Outer Hebrides!!!
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>> I love camping.
Didn't realise you were so in favour of the camp ;>)
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>> I love camping.
You mean in tent things, ground sheets, blow up beds camping?
Are you kin mad or wot?
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>>You mean in tent things, ground sheets, blow up beds camping?
Yup. Love it. I don't know how many times my daughters and I have been over the years, but lots and lots.
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Knight Stainforth Hall is 1 mile up the road from me in Giggleswick. Tents, tourers, motorhomes and about 25 mins from J36 of the M6.
Great site...I know the folks who own it, but no idea of availability.
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And plans now finalised- we are going to the Norfolk coast in the tent instead!
Checked the tent and it has survived the rats in the loft from last year.
Need to do an inventory check to see what still needed - a pot set is top of the list as we returned the last ones we had as they were crap!
Oh and better exchange gas cylinder for a new one!
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>> Another problem this year is gas, supplies are variable, and if you don't have an empty bottle to exchange you ain't getting any, period
As we're giving up caravanning, I sold 3 x calor 6kg bottles. I didn't want to be mercenary/greedy, so I advertised the two empties at a buy-it-now of £25, and a half-full at £40.
They sold very quickly, and the buyers came 20-30 miles to collect.
So if you have any sitting in your shed, you'll do someone a favour by getting them out and sold.
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Apologies if I missed it, but why is gas supply a difficulty?
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...demand has rocketed along with the increase in caravan and camping holidays. This has coincided with a hiatus in supply of new bottles/cylinders to replace life-expired ones (Brovid).
I have refillable bottles which can be replenished with Autogas; luckily they are virtually full as there is currently a UK shortage of Autogas due to two major refineries being offline for maintenance.
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Thanks.
Given that, I'm a bit surprised it's not an issue here, to be honest.
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When we got the caravan I chose Calor Lite cylinders as both overall weight and nose weight were marginal. Lite cylinders subsequently started to disproportionately fail pressure testing and were withdrawn. They were subsequently allowed back into circulation but mixed randomly with heavier standard cylinders.
Given that a full cylinder lasts us a couple of years cooking plus fridge/hot water if weak electricity supply affects the latter we're OK until 2022. Looking at Flo-Gas after that.
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I have two 6kg calor propane bottles, both currently full on departure to Iow. I have a tame camping supply shop nearby who keeps a bottle back for regulars. We are on hookup here so gas is oven and BBQ only, but next three outings, 15 days in total, will be off grid so gas for hw, cooking and fridge. Should be OK into 2022
Edit. I stick with calor because it has the best UK coverage even with current issues
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 21 Jun 21 at 21:48
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>>So if you have any sitting in your shed, you'll do someone a favour by getting them out and sold.
I swapped my unwanted medium sized calor bottle for a little green patio job ( at the main dealer I have previously posted details near Kingston on Thames but just off the A3 ) I just paid for the gas.
My very local DIY shop is out of stock of all gas at present
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My friend boughht a table top gas patio heater from Amazon which I assembled for her. She very quickly realised that she could not get a cylinder anywhere without one to part exchange. A plea through her Facebook pals found one stuck at the back of someone's shed and she was able to trade that in.
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LAst time we were out in the 'van at CAMC Longleat the caravanners alongside us were newbies on their very first night. He'd found an empty cylinder, Calor Lite, on ebay and been able to trade it for a full one.
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That reminds me I've got a green patio/bbq gas bottle I hardly ever use. How much are they going for?
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We like camping too. You'll have a great time Bobby. Just don't do the Crocs thing. Bridge too far and so on...
;-)
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>> That reminds me I've got a green patio/bbq gas bottle I hardly ever use. How
>> much are they going for?
>>
ebay has a 'search completed items' feature which will tell you.
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We've been Camping Gaz users for years because it used to be readily available in French supermarkets meaning I could delegate Mrs H to replace an empty if necessary. Goodness knows what Covid and Brexit have done to the supply chain. Since the price of Camping Gaz shot up a year or two ago I've taken to filling my Camping Gaz bottles from a biggish Flo Gas cylinder that I happen to have in stock. It's something I don't like to mention when on site because some fellow caravanners think there will be a huge bang shortly on our pitch and act accordingly. I think it's less risky than filling up the car with petrol.
Anyway, we should be off on our maiden voyage with the new caravan to Cheshire (of all places) on Saturday so Mrs H can help out with the new grandchild who arrived yesterday, about a fortnight early.
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Although our main gas is Calor Lite I carry a Camping Gaz 907 cylinder from our tent days as a back up in France.
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Caravan thoughts - Bromptonaut
