Motoring Discussion > Why are London taxis so old?	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: RattleandSmoke	Replies: 35

New Fri 17 Sep 10 20:25   Why are London taxis so old? - RattleandSmoke

In Manchester all the black cabs are almost all less than five years old. In London I saw quite a few L plates and even a G plate one. Surely if Manchester cabbies can afford a brand new motor every five years London cabbies can? Also in Manchester we have age restrictions on both mini cabs and hackney cabs but in London no limits seem to exist. I just don't get it. I saw so many TX4s in London, where as in Manchester they are a very rare sight now and even in the other towns such as Blackpool, Warrington, Liverpool, Leeds etc they are hardly any TX4s but London is full of them. I have also noticed both cities seemed to have allowed the new Mercedes Sprinter based taxi to be hackney licenced, this could be cause problems for LTI. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 21:11   Why are London taxis so old? - Iffy

Can't speak for today, but going back 30 years, it was treat to find an older London taxi because it had leather seats, which were a lovely amber colour. The older cabs also had a part obscured rear window which only American limos had at the time. I can just remember the cabs in which the area where a front passenger would sit was open to the elements and used as a luggage platform. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 21:20   Why are London taxis so old? - Skoda

>> because it had leather seats What's the material used on a TX4's back seat? Seems like a plastic of some sort, very very hard wearing, but, i love the feel of it. I'd choose that over leather just for the sheer practicality of it. I bet in 10 years that still comes up as new with no fancy chemicals. EDIT: not just the taxi's are older in london, a lot of the cars are. Although i guess it's just the fact there are so many cars, you get a much broader spectrum. I don't know the average age of a typical car in Glasgow but i reckon it's 4-5 years younger than the average for london. Last edited by: Skoda on Fri 17 Sep 10 at 21:22 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 21:56   Why are London taxis so old? - Armel Coussine

leather seats, which were a lovely amber colour. Takes a rich mixture of fluids to produce that lovely amber patina, iffy. I speak from experience. And I was only a minicab driver in Clapham, not one of those snotnosed ignorant coarse stupid lost illiterate arrogant thieving kings of the road in their collapsing 12mph diesel automatics. KnowImean, Sweetie? And Sheikha: why the blue blazes weren't you jousting in London in your jalopy while I wasn't there to terrorise you? Some crummy economistic excuse no doubt. You may not get another chance. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 17 Sep 10 at 22:00 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 21:24   Why are London taxis so old? - -

>> In Manchester all the black cabs are almost all less than five years old. In >> London I saw quite a few L plates and even a G plate one. Surely >> if Manchester cabbies can afford a brand new motor every five years London cabbies can? I'm not surprised Rattie, i've picked up truckloads of used ones from Manchester and they seemed to my untrained eye to be in very poor condition to the London taxi's, dented and neglected. There's probably a lot of reasons for the difference in quality after 5 years use. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 21:26   Why are London taxis so old? - RattleandSmoke

I suppose in London they spend most their time picking up rich tourists and business people. In Manchester and other cities they spend most their time picking up drunks. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 21:31   Why are London taxis so old? - Iffy

...they spend most their time picking up drunks... "Do you know who I had in the back of the cab the other day? "That Rattle, well oiled he was. "Blathering on about how he couldn't hear his indicators." Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 23:03   Why are London taxis so old? - henry k

>> In Manchester all the black cabs are almost all less than five years old. In >> London I saw quite a few L plates and even a G plate one. >> Also in Manchester we have age restrictions on both mini cabs and hackney cabs but >> in London no limits seem to exist. I just don't get it. >> IIRC the regulations say a maximum of 10 years for a London Hackney cab >> >> I have also noticed both cities seemed to have allowed the new Mercedes Sprinter based >> taxi to be hackney licenced, this could be cause problems for LTI. >> Many cabbies do not like them because IIRC they are limited to 5mph when doing tight turns Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 23:19   Why are London taxis so old? - RattleandSmoke

I wonder why I saw those old ones then? I suppose they have been private vehicles :) I just assumed they were cabs. I dont like he Merc cabs because before long every cab in every European city will look the same. I did see a TX2 in service in Berlin once though. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 23:29   Why are London taxis so old? - henry k

>> I wonder why I saw those old ones then? I suppose they have been private >> vehicles :) I just assumed they were cabs. >> Yes there are quite a few private ones. The Obvious clue is no large white Public Carriage Office plate on the back. We do have some with "cherished " number plates on them. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 23:40   Why are London taxis so old? - Iffy

...Yes there are quite a few private ones... I've heard of one or two 'celebrity' owners, including the Duke of Edinburgh. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 10 23:20   Why are London taxis so old? - henry k

>>IIRC the regulations say a maximum of 10 years for a London Hackney cab >> A correction - the only reference I can find is london-taxi.taxiblog.co.uk/35/guide-to-london-taxis/ "A London taxi is subject to thorough periodic inspections and is retired after 10 to 12 years and thousands of miles of service. " Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 09:38   Why are London taxis so old? - Bigtee

These old clappers have the bullet proof Nissan TD-27 engine which just runs forever, The taxis around here are a mix bag of 5yrs old scratched stinking & sweaty man who don't use soap to drive them. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 19:41   Why are London taxis so old? - Avant

Funny - I was thinking about this today having just come back from Liverpool. Although I drove there it was easier to take taxis round the city which I don't know well. They are mostly TX4s plying for hire. I suspect the taxis don't have the same stringent inspections as they do in London, as they seemed dirty inside and rattly and wheezy mechanically (a Y and a T registration I think). Oddly both the taxis I went in had manual gearboxes, both driven jerkily by drivers who would have done better with automatics, as most are in London. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 19:55   Why are London taxis so old? - Iffy

...had manual gearboxes... Black Cabs used to be called FX... rather than TX... The number referred to the number of forward gears. I rode in some old FX3 cabs, which had three gears, although by the late 1970s, most on the road in London were FX4 cabs. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 20:03   Why are London taxis so old? - Zero

>> >> The number referred to the number of forward gears. >> The FX2 didnt have 2 gears, FX4's with an auto box only had three gears. The difference in body styles between the FX3 and FX4 was much more fundamental than the number of gears. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 20:10   Why are London taxis so old? - Iffy

...The number referred to the number of forward gears... Zero, Just what a Black Cab driver told me, but I'm sure he wouldn't know as much about cabs as you do. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 20:11   Why are London taxis so old? - Zero

If you look at a picture of an FX3 and then a picture of an FX4 you will see what I mean. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 20:15   Why are London taxis so old? - Iffy

...If you look at a picture of an FX3 and then a picture of an FX4 you will see what I mean... If you say they look different, I'm happy to accept it, although I can't remember there being much difference when I was riding in both types in the late 1970s. The cab driver I spoke to was quite clear the main difference was three or four forward gears, leaving autos aside. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 20:18   Why are London taxis so old? - Zero

Oh believe me, you will know the difference. The FX3 looks really old, dates form 1949. I havent seen on in active use on the streets of london since about 1970. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 20:23   Why are London taxis so old? - Iffy

...The FX3 looks really old, dates form 1949... As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have a vague recollection of riding in a cab with an open luggage platform next to the driver, which I think would have been an FX3. Thinking about it, that would have been late 1960s. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 20:27   Why are London taxis so old? - Zero

>> ...The FX3 looks really old, dates form 1949... >> >> As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have a vague recollection of riding in >> a cab with an open luggage platform next to the driver, which I think would >> have been an FX3. >> >> Thinking about it, that would have been late 1960s. Thats the beast.. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 20:22   Why are London taxis so old? - Armel Coussine

I've driven FX3s and FX4s round London as private vehicles and when appearing as a taxi driver in a small independent movie (I was wonderful darlings. Speaking part too. 'Jump in, love,' I seem to remember). They were both pretty horrid, but for sheer awfulness an FX3 takes a lot of beating. Crammed in a little glass box with a horrid gutless noisy old diesel and mecchanical brakes to boot, yarooh! FX4 equally gutless and nearly as nasty over any mileage at all, but a bit more elbow room and a more relaxed drive (relaxed willy-nilly). I used to think: No wonder so many black cab drivers are such curmudgeonly twerps driving these damn things all day with nothing but the whirring of the taximeter to cheer them up... Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 20:15   Why are London taxis so old? - Old Navy

>> Just what a Black Cab driver told me,>> >> I think he was pulling your leg. They are different model designations. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 10 20:36   Why are London taxis so old? - Iffy

...I think he was pulling your leg... "Do you know who I had in the back of the cab the other day? "Iffy - an ice cream who said 'e was off an internet forum, whatever one of them is. "Anyways, he was givin' it some bunny about the cab and FX this and TX that. "I told him a right fairy story about what the numbers mean, and he swallowed it 'ole. "Wot a lark. "Took him 'round the 'ouses, too. "Never left a tip. "Some people, I ask you." Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 10 10:49   Why are London taxis so old? - Boxsterboy

>> I have also noticed both cities seemed to have allowed the new Mercedes Sprinter based >> taxi to be hackney licenced, this could be cause problems for LTI. >> Mercedes Vito-based, actually. I believe LTI have moved production to China in response to try and compete. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 10 14:30   Why are London taxis so old? - RattleandSmoke

Went in one of those new mercs last night. It had leather seats, automatic doors and the suspension seemed more comfortable than the TX4. I have a horrible feeling they could hurt LTIs sales and all cabbies in Europe would end up looking the same. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 10 15:31   Why are London taxis so old? - Old Navy

Most taxi's in Europe are Mercedes. Clever marketing boosts their image in the badge conscious UK. Anywhere else they are just Frankfurt taxi's. Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 19 Sep 10 at 15:31 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 10 19:39   Why are London taxis so old? - Armel Coussine

In answer to the Sheikh's OP, the reason London taxis are old is that they are required by law to be maintained. Ordinary human thrift does the rest. Obviously in these exotic provincial locations a pay-tomorrow, throwaway. Indian chief whose Cadillac's ashtray is full, oil-rich middle eastern potentate attitude prevails. Among the punters too, I can't help hoping with my erstwhile colleagues (for all their many faults) in mind. I once injured myself running drunkenly out of a bar to see 'the oldest taxi in Lagos'. It was a Peugeot 403 with a lot of baroque, but charming, coachlines. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 10 21:28   Why are London taxis so old? - Roger.

London Taxis - many used as mobile knocking shops [so I am told!] - don't forget to wipe the seat before you sit down! Last edited by: landsker on Sun 19 Sep 10 at 21:29 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 10 15:02   Why are London taxis so old? - Bromptonaut

Oldest seen on today's commute was a G prefix so around 20yrs old. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 10 17:24   Why are London taxis so old? - RattleandSmoke

Not on Brompton Road by any chance? Its where I saw the G reg. I guessing it was probably the same one and may be a private vehicle. I was walking from Fulham Broadway via Brompton Cemetery (to try and find old relatives - fat chance) to Euston. Certainly gave my legs a good work out! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 10 18:53   Why are London taxis so old? - Bromptonaut

Rats, this one was by Euston station. Observation was on my bike commute from there to Chancery Lane. The handle Bromptonaut derives from my ownership of the eponymous folding bike. It's actually named after the Brompton Road/Oratory as that was on the inventor Andrew Ritchies' bailiwick. But I cannot remember when I was last around there. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 20 Sep 10 at 18:54 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 21 Sep 10 07:41   Why are London taxis so old? - L'escargot

Rattle, I'd like to see authorative data that London taxis are older than Manchester taxis. As far as I can see, you're just giving your opinion which could well be wrong. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 21 Sep 10 09:49   Why are London taxis so old? - Bromptonaut

I'm not sure, as a fleet average, they're that old. Lots of 09/59 registered examples seen yesterday as well. But there does seem to be a persistent residue of much older machines, presumably in the hands of independent owner drivers. Not a new phenomenon. Rarely use them but recall c1990 riding in an example on a J suffix (1970/71?) example. When I first landed in london in 79 there were still plenty with pre or just post 63 registrations tootling around. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 21 Sep 10 09:56   Why are London taxis so old? - Iffy

...presumably in the hands of independent owner drivers... Makes sense. Most drivers live in fear of the Public Carriage Office, so most of the older cabs will have had a lot of maintenance. I would be happy enough to ride in one, and at London traffic speeds the chances of a passenger in any age of cab being injured are low. Reply to this message | Report message