Motoring Discussion > F1 and general motorsport discussion - Vol 36 Miscellaneous
Thread Author: VxFan Replies: 56

 F1 and general motorsport discussion - Vol 36 - VxFan

As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).


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Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:44
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Rudedog
Just heard that Lewis Hamilton has lost his case in the EC where he claimed a trademark on his name 'Hamilton'.

I would question the lawyers who said that this was a runner considering the historic companies sharing the same name.

 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Duncan
Seems to be rather a shame and a bit silly?

I wonder if he had said "why don't we put our heads together on this and perhaps see if we can work out something between us?"
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Manatee
It does seem a bit odd but as Hamilton has a company to manage his IP/marks they presumably picked up on the application and received advice. Hamilton probably endorses watches so there is a potential conflict. No doubt he has 'people' doing this for him. I would.
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Zero
Who is us? The hundreds of millions of people round the world called Hamilton? The thousands of companies called Hamilton? The numerous stage plays around the world called Hamilton?

It was a complete non starter. The clue to doing this is that round the world he is known as "lewis Hamilton". thats should have been a good clue for a trademark.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Nov 20 at 12:31
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - helicopter
According to the Telegraph ,Hamilton was 125 years too late....

Hamilton watches of Switzerland could prove categorically that they had been trading under that name since 1895.
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Manatee
>> According to the Telegraph ,Hamilton was 125 years too late....
>>
>> Hamilton watches of Switzerland could prove categorically that they had been trading under that name
>> since 1895.
>>
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Manatee
>> According to the Telegraph ,Hamilton was 125 years too late....
>>
>> Hamilton watches of Switzerland could prove categorically that they had been trading under that name
>> since 1895.


It makes a good story I suppose, but I'm sure everybody knew that Hamilton is an established watch brand, even I did.

This will be about specific product categories (possibly smart watches?) and markets, and probably variants on the trademarks. IIRC Hamilton (the watches), at least latterly, has been primarily a brand for North America. If the mark had not been previously used or protected in Europe then there might have been scope for an argument.
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Manatee
I've been looking for a source that is more illuminating than either the DT or the DM, without much success.

This implies that is is slightly more complicated - according to this report IP44 attempted to trademark "Lewis Hamilton" in relation to watches etc. which is not quite the same thing, and Swatch succeeded in preventing that. It also reports that IP44 attempted to void Swatch's trademark in Europe which may well have been a counter claim.

timeandtidewatches.com/hamilton-vs-hamilton-f1-superstar-lewis-hamilton-loses-legal-battle-with-hamilton-watches/
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 20 Nov 20 at 15:48
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - No FM2R
"44IP attempted to trademark the name “Lewis Hamilton” for a number of goods including watches, smartwatches and jewellery. But Hamilton watches challenged the move.

Doesn't seem unreasonable for 44IP to try to do that and I wonder on what grounds Swatch challenged that. Difficult to think how confusion could occur.
 Hamilton - what's in a name? - Bromptonaut
>> Doesn't seem unreasonable for 44IP to try to do that and I wonder on what
>> grounds Swatch challenged that. Difficult to think how confusion could occur.

Is it connected with Swatch owning the Hamilton watch brand?
 Bahrain - No FM2R
.

I can see no way of commenting without giving stuff away. Probably best to have a look at the BBC F1 page if you're interested. Quite the event.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 29 Nov 20 at 14:45
 Bahrain - No FM2R
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMXi1yoevN4

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5-zXx0KC98
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 29 Nov 20 at 14:50
 Bahrain - Bobby
The half of the car just sliced through the barrier like a tin opener. How the hell he came out that alive!
 Bahrain - maltrap
He was saved by the halo. The barrier should be altered to run more parallel to the track.
 Bahrain - wotspur
Have little interest in F1 , but that was a hell of a crash , a d thankfully the driver walked away unscathed . So nice that since 2 deaths, Ratsenberger ? A s Senna ? in one race 20-30 years ago , I don’t think there have been any since .
Anyway If they decided to do another one in England , perhaps they coukd use the M25 or M42 as the track ......add a few 100 European lorries ,and it coukd make it interesting
 Bahrain - Robin O'Reliant
>> Have little interest in F1 , but that was a hell of a crash ,
>> a d thankfully the driver walked away unscathed . So nice that since 2 deaths,
>> Ratsenberger ? A s Senna ? in one race 20-30 years ago , I don’t
>> think there have been any since .
>>
>>
Jules Bianchi at the Japanese GP in 2014.

Remarkable really if you consider that between 1968 and 1978 eleven drivers died while racing and a few more when testing or practicing.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Sun 29 Nov 20 at 20:53
 Bahrain - smokie
"Jules Bianchi at the Japanese GP in 2014."

Although he survived in hospital for over a year after it IIRC.

I suppose the armco was in a place where only a fairly freaky sort of incident would out a car anywhere near it. But that;'s what they ought to be legislating for these days I suppose. I remember at one of the last Le Mans races a bloke went quite a bit off the track and hit the armco just where there was a big tree behind it, which prevented it flexing at all and he died from the impact. They re-designed that bit of track.
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R
Lewis Hamilton to miss Sakhir GP after testing positive for coronavirus

www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55142428

"on Monday, he was ... informed that a contact "prior to arrival in Bahrain" had tested positive"

If I was Lewis Hamilton, "a contact" would be properly on my s*** list.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 1 Dec 20 at 14:03
 Sakhir GP - smokie
When they had the F1 in Portugal recently, on the Thursday night there were four gobby blokes drinking too much in a bar I visited and they were apparently the F1 truck drivers for one of the teams and weren't really being adequately cautious, despite warnings from the bar keeper - which is why I didn't stay long.

And Red Bull were rumoured to have hired a hotel (or somesuch) not far from where we were for a post-race party for up to 200. May not have been true and may have been done safely. Who knows?
 Sakhir GP - VxFan
>> Lewis Hamilton to miss Sakhir GP after testing positive for coronavirus

George Russell (Williams driver) is taking up the hot seat in his absence.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55152354
 Sakhir Grand Prix: first practice - No FM2R
This could end up being very embarrassing for Bottas.

www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55190880

On another subject, does anybody know why testing is limited? Why aren't the drivers and manufacturers simply allowed to do as much testing as they want?
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:46
 Sakhir Grand Prix: first practice - Manatee
>>On another subject, does anybody know why testing is limited?

Cost and so as not to disadvantage smaller/less well funded teams. The big teams/manufacturers would just test day and night, have their own tracks etc.

They also limit e.g. wind tunnel time.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:47
 Sakhir Grand Prix: first practice - No FM2R
Makes sense, I suppose. But I would have thought that a better solution could have been found.

What stops them building a third, identical car and testing the nuts out of that? Other than not letting one of their main drivers sit in it.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:47
 Sakhir Grand Prix: first practice - Zero
>> Makes sense, I suppose. But I would have thought that a better solution could have
>> been found.
>>
>> What stops them building a third, identical car and testing the nuts out of that?
>> Other than not letting one of their main drivers sit in it.

The testing rules are nothing to do with the drivers, or the number of cars, it applies to the team in any racing year.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:47
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R
Well now, you'd think someone was going to get sacked in the morning.

Russell is clearly damned good though.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - bathtub tom
Proves to me, any reasonably competent driver in a Merc can wipe the floor with the opposition.

No, I'm not a fan of Hamilton.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R
It's a car/driver combo, and a good driver significantly contributes to the development of the car. The teams aren't stupid, they wouldn't pay millions to a driver if "any reasonably competent driver" could perform just as well.

I can't really be a***d to get caught up with the haters who seemingly need to believe that whoever is winning is nothing special. Whoever it is. I think it must be some kind of self defence mechanism.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - Zero
>> Proves to me, any reasonably competent driver in a Merc can wipe the floor with
>> the opposition.

He didnt tho did he, he came 9th.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - bathtub tom
>> He didnt tho did he, he came 9th.

After a puncture.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - Zero
>> >> He didnt tho did he, he came 9th.
>>
>> After a puncture.

Ran off line maybe? a more experienced driver may not have.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - smokie
He'd also been called back in to sort out the bad tyre change.

Feel sorry for the guy, he could and should have won. But he'll get other opportunities, especially after that performance - even in a Merc!

Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:52
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R
>> Proves to me, any reasonably competent driver in a Merc can wipe the floor with the opposition.

And quite clearly Russell is not "any reasonably competent driver".
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Dec 20 at 11:53
 Sakhir GP - PR
I'm no Hamilton fan either.

I think Russell will end up in the same league as Max and Leclerc (ie better than the rest)

To be fair to Hamilton he has made some very good team choices. If you compare him with Alonso, who is widely regarded as being on a par with any "great", he made some terrible decisions and had decisions made for him because of his attitude. Hamilton has judged (and some luck) to be in the best car
 Sakhir GP - Robin O'Reliant
I seem to be one of the few who do like Hamilton. I don't always agree with him but he speaks his mind which is a refreshing change from all the so called "Celebrities" who just spout the bull their PR people have written for them.

He is also disliked because he's a winner, which doesn't go down well with the British public - at least till their careers are over and we then get all nostalgic about how great they were and isn't it a shame we don't have anyone that good now.
 Sakhir GP - smokie
You aren't alone RoR - I m a Lewis fan too, though I tend not really to have favourites ( - but then I don't get why people support a footy team halfway up the country rather than their local one either!).

There are currently some very good/promising drivers who, like Hamilton, have been racing since they were "a lad". This must be good for the sport and while it can obviously favour one team or another depending on their engines/tyres/budget/whatever.

However I don't think it's necessary to put them all in the same car just to see who is the best driver, though that does happen in some classes of racing and it is also very watchable. F1 is the pinnacle though, so all of the drivers are really top class.
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R

>> He is also disliked because he's a winner, which doesn't go down well with the
>> British public

The British public, or at least the internetting part, seems to have a real problem with the success of an individual. I don't know if it is resentment, jealousy, or a fear that the success of someone else points out what a inadequate person they are/feel, but it is an awful behaviour.

It is not dissimilar to the joy that football fans take in the failure of another team. Given that most football fans choose the team they support at an early age form the newspapers, it is in any case a fake ´support´. But even with that, I can understand to an extent the joy in the success of a team that one has arbitrarily chosen to support, but the joy in the failure of another team is quite beyond me.

That that's aside from the copious use of "we" and "our" as if some way they had some relevance to the team or it's performance beyond subsidising it by sucking up their merchandising.

I often read the comments below BBC articles, I do hope that the majority of contributors are vulnerable anti-vaxxers,


>> I seem to be one of the few who do like Hamilton. I don't always
>> agree with him but he speaks his mind which is a refreshing change from all
>> the so called "Celebrities" who just spout the bull their PR people have written for
>> them.

He is a racing driver, not a thought leader. I find the way that the media and it's lemmings hang on his every word tiresome.

But he is a driven man and a superb driver. And I enjoy watching him race.
 Sakhir GP - Manatee
Hamilton gets hate way above and beyond what might be related to just winning a lot.

I'm certainly not suggesting racism is the motivation for anybody who just doesn't think he has an appealing personality, but it's difficult to believe that it isn't present in much of the vicious bile poured out on various internet fora and e.g. the "I Hate Lewis Hamilton" Facebook page - which describes itself as "Just a little spot to talk about F1 without the Hamilton fanboy Troll's hijacking every single post", yet the majority of post are simply Hamilton abuse.

I have already (posts passim) said I think he is a phenomenon as a driver and frankly I can't see what he is doing wrong. His other interests aren't mine but so what? I certainly have no problem with him using his position as a celeb to promote his campaigning interests, why wouldn't he?
 Sakhir GP - Robin O'Reliant
>> Hamilton gets hate way above and beyond what might be related to just winning a
>> lot.
>>
>>
There is an element of racism in it, but the resentment of British sportsmen dominating is peculiar to this country. Steve Davis got similar hatred when he was dominating snooker in the eighties and Chris Froome gets the same reactions from cycling fans despite being one of the sports all time Tour de France greats, an astonishing reaction when you think that just ten years ago no British rider had even come close. Nick Faldo wasn't too popular either.

We seem far more comfortable with our Eddie the Eagles and Frank Brunos, plucky losers who were good for a laugh.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Wed 9 Dec 20 at 14:05
 Sakhir GP - No FM2R
>>We seem far more comfortable with our Eddie the Eagles and Frank Brunos, plucky losers who were good for a laugh

Perhaps because 'we' don't find them threatening, intimidating and they don't cause 'us' to feel inadequate.

I can't otherwise think of any reason that it bothers people so much. Though I think it is probably true to say that mostly it bothers the mouthy ones rather than the majority.
 Sakhir GP - hawkeye
If you had been perplexed as to how Grosjean's car penetrated the barrier, this video may help with the explanation. I found it clear and believable. I didn't believe the misspelling of 'conscious' though.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAeQHfwtr5s
 Abu Dhabi GP - henry k
Latest re Hamilton.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55235331

IMO, in the video he did not seem to be his usual self.
 Abu Dhabi GP - VxFan
Even if he is fit for this weekend's race, I think he should do the gentlemanly thing and let George Russell have another play in his car.

LH has won the drivers championship, Mercedes have won the team championship.
Other than another race win for LH, (which he no doubt win many more in his remaining F1 career) what else is there for him to achieve?
 Abu Dhabi GP - Zero
Hes a winning F1 racing driver, they have never been gentlemanly about anything. Specially not a team mate.
 Abu Dhabi GP - No FM2R
>>Even if he is fit for this weekend's race, I think he should do the gentlemanly thing and let George Russell have another play in his car.

I wouldn't. That would be a ridiculous thing to do. How on earth could that ever be a good idea for him?

Aside from anything else such a man is driven to win. Not just win championship and stop. Driven to win always.

If he ever feels like he can step back from that I would expect him to stop racing, not just leave F1. Not likely.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 10 Dec 20 at 12:02
 Abu Dhabi GP - maltrap
I wonder, what effect, if any, Russel's performance will have on Mercedes contract negotiations with Hamilton.
 Abu Dhabi GP - No FM2R
More likely to have an impact on Bottas' role, I should think.
 Abu Dhabi GP - maltrap
I don't think Hamilton would want Russel as team mate. Too quick!
 Abu Dhabi GP - No FM2R
Possibly, but I'm not so sure. Hamilton doesn't strike me as a coward and does seem to fundamentally believe he can beat anybody with a level playing field. I think he'd believe and be unable to resist the challenge of beating Russell and proving yet another point.

So I don't think he'd have a problem with Russell being there.

I do think he'd have a problem if he (Hamilton) was not seen as *the* lead driver though.
 Abu Dhabi GP - No FM2R
www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55264873
 Abu Dhabi GP - smokie
Oh good, though it'd have also been good if Russell had had a second chance. His time will come though.
 Hamilton reaction - Zero
Watch Hamiltons reaction when he hears a proper F1* car giving it some beans

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hol6eel1uME


* 2005 V10 Renault R25
 Hamilton reaction - henry k
A longer taster
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgv1iN9HR8
 Abu Dhabi - No FM2R
I reckon the highlights show will be about 5 seconds long. And even that'll be boring.
 Driver changes - henry k
Perez in Albon out
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55367539
 Driver changes - No FM2R
Fair after the season that both just had.

I note the 1 year contract though, presumably to see if Perez can keep it up and suspecting that he might not..
 Red Bull teams to take over Honda's engines - henry k
Red Bull teams to take over Honda's engines from 2022 season

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56068724
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