I get to drive quite a few new cars in my current job, but I've yet to find any that matches my Almera for simplicity and feedback of information of the climate control.
Press the 'auto' button, dial in the desired temperature and the screen shows you the fan speed it's selected and where it's delivering the air.
Vauxhalls seem to require you to select the fan speed manually.
The closest to matching it was a new Saab, but there's no feedback. How do you select the cruise speed without inadvertently flashing the indicators on these?
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BMW is pretty good for ease of use, both old and new (in it's own way).
Skoda is soooo close with the twisty knobs but looses it all on the buttons between the two knobs (i still don't know the difference between Auto and AUTO -- yep there really are 2 auto settings with the only noticeable difference being capitalisation).
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The VW Dual climate (all the vag group use the same one but with different knobs and displays) is great for ease of use IF you want to leave it to the system on full auto, its utterly hopeless if you want to control where codl or warm air comes from.
Trouble is when left on auto it will suddenly freeze your tear ducts or roast your crotch at random intervals. It needs to be reset frequently (if you know how)
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Do I have to say 'Volvo' - or can I wait for DP or Gmac to do it for me?
}:---)
I occasionally nudge mine up or down a degree from its usual 21, but otherwise it never needs touching. The Toyota system in our other car seems crude and very noisy by comparison.
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The Mazda auto system is first class, once you realise that all you have to do is press the button that says, would you believe, 'AUTO'. As Will says with regard to Volvo you can alter it manually with little bother, then press 'AUTO' again to let the system take over.
It's only taken me 11 months to master it !!
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As far as I am aware, (and I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong!!) "Auto" on most cars merely refers to the distribution of air - ie the balance between "screen", "face vents" and "footwell vents". The fan speed is determined by the temp difference between what you set (say 18 deg) and the interior temp (say 25deg) in which case fans will be fast until required temp is reached then they will slow down to maintain that temp. For example, on most cars if you have it on Auto and then decide to press the button to direct air through face vents "auto" switches off and light comes on next to face vent switch. If you then press "auto" again light on face vent switch goes off and air is distributed "automatically" between the various vents. If you reduce the temp required, fan will speed up for a while.
Temp difference controls fan speed and Auto decides distribution (unless you prefer a different balance.) Press "demist" and Auto switches off and fans go to full speed to clear screen with all air directed there.
I have a sudden feeling that I'm teaching my Grandmas to suck eggs............
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Full Climate auto means it controls air temperature (blending chilled with ambient or heated) fan speed and distribution location.
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But surely you choose the temp you want Zero? Which then determines fan speed to get it to that temp and keep it that temp? And then Auto sends the air where it thinks it's needed. Not sure how what you say is different from what I said.
Which cars have this "full auto" and how does it differ from, say, MB, BM, Audi, Ford etc climate systems?
I can see how "Climate" differs from "air-con" where with the latter you set the level of cooling or warming and with the former you set a temp, but not sure how "full climate" differs from "climate"
Phil
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you dial in the temp you want either side of the car.
What I said does not differ from your description, except you missed out the blending of temperature. Which in practise can mean cycling the aircon pump on and off if and when required and or blending in hot air.
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We've got the VAG dual c/c in the Galaxy and it's permanently set to auto. It's fairly effective and you just usually tap up and down between 18 and 23 degrees on the buttons depending on how cool or warm you want it. There are other buttons for fan speed and direction but they're a bit of a faff TBH.
I personally prefer manual aircon where I leave it permanently on and just dictate fan speed and direction with old fashioned rotary knobs.
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>> Do I have to say 'Volvo' - or can I wait for DP or Gmac
>> to do it for me?
Alas, my Volvo was the poverty spec "S" which came with conventional air-conditioning,I agree though, this system is ergonomically near perfect, and I believe its layout has been carried over largely unchanged to the new S60.
The Golfs both have the CLIMAtronic system. The controls themselves are perfectly logical to use, but the buttons are quite small, almost all are the same size and shape, and due to the low position in the dash, require you to take your eyes off the road. I guess there are only so many ways you can incorporate a full set of controls, plus a display for a climate control system, into a standard DIN slot.
I tend to leave the system on 21°C, switching between Auto and Econ modes depending on the outside temperature.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 16 Sep 10 at 08:59
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>> Vauxhalls seem to require you to select the fan speed manually.
Mine doesn't.
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Switching on climate control in my 2003 Focus results in a howlinng gale of maximum airflow until the temperature sensor on thr fascia gets near to the set temperature. I always use the aircon manually.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Thu 16 Sep 10 at 07:40
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I've found the auto climate on both my old Mondeo and current C5 fine to leave on auto all year round withjust a tweek of temp by a couple of degrees now and then.
They do give you a fair blast of air when the sensor detects a sharp drop of temperature is needed... the Mondeo fan noise was particularly fierce... it would drown out the radio.
I would not make a car choice based on wanting dual zone climate which I have now but it does suit one over-particular daughter who always wants a different temp to me on the daily school run.
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Well, contrary to two other posts on here, the single zone cc on my Passat is superb. I set it when I bought it and it just maintains that temperature. I would not buy a manual air con unit as, in my experience, you switch it on, you get cold, you switch it off, the screen mists up and you get hot, you switch it on...
We even bought the Sport version of the Jazz for my wife because it had cc rather than aircon (plus some other desirable extras). In contrast to the VW you need to tweak the temp control up and down. It seems to have no real sense of what the temperature is in the car so while it does maintain a steady temperaure it does not seem to be the same steady temperature between say morning & evening, summer & winter.
Perhaps my cc is simply older than the other VW posters and change = getting worse?
John
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>> it on, you get cold, you switch it off, the screen mists up and you
>> get hot, you switch it on...
>>
You start the car, you turn on the aircon, you tweak up the heat as it gets cold till you reach the perfect temp. YOu just tweak the temp up or down slightly as you go along.
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>>
>> Vauxhalls seem to require you to select the fan speed manually.
Mine doesent - Select Auto and it controls the temp including the fan speed, the only thing i have to control on mine is the direction of the airflow. as I dont have the dual control system which does that for you.
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Best automatic aircon I ever had was in the Legend coupe - just dialled in the temp and it did the rest quietly and unobtrusively. Although that was a top of the range motor more than 20 years ago you might have thought that all cars now would have aircon as good as that was then. Not so, I fear. Cost-cutting takes its toll.
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All the cars I have had with electronic climate control (Passat, Mondeo and Mazda6) all work by just setting the temperature and leaving the car to it. I've never had a problem. But I would think only cars with proper electronic climate control are like this? Anything with a manual air-con button is unlikely to regulate air flow speed and temperature automatically.
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I like the temperature, air distribution and volume to be constantly under my control, not under the control of a machine.
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L'escargot, that means you probably don't want climate control. Manually controlling temp, air flow, etc. manually with climate control can be less than satisfactory.
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That in my Skoda is almost superb. But in an Octavia. The toggling 'Auto' button gives a choice of a lower auto fan speed if you do not want to be warmed/cooled too fast. But I usually leave it on the higher fan speed as I find it to work fine. The road noise tends to drown any, minimal, fan noise!
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To be fair, the climate control in the Qashqai is very good. I don't think I've ever adjusted it since I set it a year ago. Just works Summer or Winter. Clever chaps those Geordies.
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"I like the temperature, air distribution and volume to be constantly under my control, not under the control of a machine."
Completely agree. Same goes for rain sensitive wipers and auto dipping rear view mirrors.
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I find the climate control on the BMW 3-series both easy to use and very effective. No matter how extreme the heat or cold outside, the cabin temperature quickly becomes the temperature that I have set it to - and stays there without variation.
There are also three other nice features to the setup.
1) An independent control on the dashboard that you can use to get cool air to the face while the rest of the cabin is warm.
2) A "Max" button to get the cabin down to the desired temperature as quickly as possible. Which is very useful when first getting back into the car on a hot day.
3) A "RST" button, which continues to pump out warm air even when the engine is switched off. This is very useful for those occasions when I am waiting in the car for 15-30 minutes in winter when SWMBO has decided to pop into a shop for "just 5 minutes".
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>>
>> Completely agree. Same goes for rain sensitive wipers and auto dipping rear view mirrors.
Rain sensative wipers on the Vectra I hate with a passion so much so ive seriously considered getting them "tech 2'd" out so it just then reverts to variable intermittant , but they seem to work fairly well on my partners C4 as does her auto dipping mirror.
In contrast The Auto Dipping mirror on the Vectra , I quite like it, as it dims down the drivers door mirror as well, works really well for some reason on unlit roads but not quite so well say on a heavily lit road.
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>> so it just then reverts to variable intermittant , but they seem to work fairly well on
I think this is the key thing, depends on the implementation. Some are rotten but some of the newer ones are pretty good.
You'll struggle to find, scrap that i forgot snaily's about :-P, a more fussy person about controls but the Skoda gets it right a good 85% of the time.
I have to intervene with the wipers at night time (turn it up a sensitivity level), and i have to turn it off for a short period after rain stops but other than that it handles changes in weather perfectly.
Lights i have to move off auto on rain soaked roads in otherwise bright conditions, and a few other niche situations.
For the detractions there's a nice touch to counter, e.g. on entering the multi storey car park it's got the dipped beams on before i've collected my ticket / coin.
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The 'cc' on my old S Type is perfect, I just leave it on 22 degrees C all year round and apart from the odd extra blast on an exceptionally hot day if I fancy some cool air flow, I leave well alone.
My wife's X Type however is not as good. You sometimes have to manually change the temp setting because it feels like it's at a different mean temp to last time, plus on hot days (as opposed to exceptionally hot days) you need more fan, certainly out of the face vents, something the S Type really doesn't suffer with, so you end up having to fiddle with it and choose the air flow speed, direction and change the temp setting.
I've put it down to the fact that the S Type has a better quality set up, despite being 6 years older.
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As Fenlander the CC in the C5 is pretty good, and requires little intervention from me. Not tried the manual buttons for air direction / speed as its not been needed. The system is also fitted with an air difuser which allows the fans to run high, but dosent blast air at you in any one particular reason.
The auto wipers are OK, but the ones in my last A3 were better, and had an adjustment for sensitivity - something the C5 does not allow for, however the auto light set up is good - the headlights are turned on as soon as wipers are required over a certain speed irespective of the light conditions - useful in a sudden downpoor to have the lights pop on on their own.
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>> In contrast The Auto Dipping mirror on the Vectra , I quite like it, as
>> it dims down the drivers door mirror as well, works really well for some reason
>> on unlit roads but not quite so well say on a heavily lit road.
That's because of the sensor on the rear of the mirror. It's picking up light from other traffic and making the mirror less effective at dimming - hence why it doesn't dim at all during daylight. I find briefly putting on the interior light floods the other sensor (at the base of the mirror) forcibly darkens down the mirror and then it tends to stay darker.
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>> L'escargot, that means you probably don't want climate control. Manually controlling temp, air flow, etc.
>> manually with climate control can be less than satisfactory.
>>
I neither need nor want climate control. It just happened to be standard on my current car. Manually controlling the parameters as I desire is totally satisfying to me. It's just like having aircon.
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>> I like the temperature, air distribution and volume to be constantly under my control, not
>> under the control of a machine.
>>
Lescargot
How do you control the temperature in your house?
Do you not use the thermostat?
What do you find objectionable about tweaking the Climate Control set point by a degree or two if and when needed and letting the system do what it is designed for by the manufacturer?
How do you regulate the water temperature in your engine block?
Last edited by: John H on Thu 16 Sep 10 at 17:56
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>> >> I like the temperature, air distribution and volume to be constantly under my control,
>> not
>> >> under the control of a machine.
>> >>
>> Lescargot
>> How do you control the temperature in your house?
We have thermostatic radiator valves on all radiators. We don't have a wall mounted thermostat. Incidentally, not everyone has central heating. I know at least two people who have coal fires.
>> Do you not use the thermostat?
Not applicable.
>> What do you find objectionable about tweaking the Climate Control set point by a degree
>> or two if and when needed and letting the system do what it is designed
>> for by the manufacturer?
I like to control the heater outlet air temperature, fan speed, and air distribution according to my requirements at the particular time. What might suit me at one time doesn't suit me at another.
>> How do you regulate the water temperature in your engine block?
I leave that to whatever it is in the car that does it. The coolant temperature doesn't affect the interior conditions ~ I do that.
>>
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 17 Sep 10 at 09:54
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>> The coolant temperature doesn't affect the interior conditions ~ I do that.
If the coolant is cold, so will the heater.
i.e the coolant temperature does affect the interior conditions.
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>> >> The coolant temperature doesn't affect the interior conditions ~ I do that.
>>
>> If the coolant is cold, so will the heater.
>>
>> i.e the coolant temperature does affect the interior conditions.
>>
It affects the heater output air temperature, but then only if I use the heater before the coolant warms up. By the time I've got the car out of the garage, closed the garage door and locked the front door, and got back into the car again, the heater is blowing warm air. Being warm-blooded, I rarely have the heater set to give an interior temperature of more than 17°C at the sensor on the fascia. The garage is heated as part of the bungalow's central heating system so the car is warm right from the start.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 18 Sep 10 at 08:44
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>> >> How do you control the temperature in your house?
>>
>> We have thermostatic radiator valves on all radiators. We don't have a wall mounted thermostat.
>> >> Do you not use the thermostat?
>>
>> Not applicable.
Yes applicable, thats what thermostatic radiator valves are
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It's been said above the cc in the now old Volvo S60 was pretty much idiot proof offering huge big buttons for winter use when wearing gloves and lighting which shows you what's going where. Doesn't need adjusting once set I just like to fiddle from time to time.
Citroen's system in my wife's car is very good too with the wife override button :) for when I occassionally get the keys & she's made too much of an imbalance in the system and the poor little one behind has icicles on their nose. I keep wanting to mention H.R.T but that probably means D.E.A.T.H for me.
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Mine stays all day on 21, ECON in the Passat. Temperature never budges unless it's hot outside, then I balance my desire for comfort with the cheapskate-tendency which avoids running the A/C.
Can't stand riding in a car with people who set it to maximum heat and then turn the fan on and off. For crying out loud, it has a temperature control for a reason, it's not an electric fire.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 16 Sep 10 at 20:54
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>>I balance my desire for comfort with the cheapskate-tendency which avoids running
>> the A/C.
>>
How does the cost of the fuel to run you aircon compare to the thousands of pounds of depreciation your car is costing you?
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>> >>I balance my desire for comfort with the cheapskate-tendency which avoids running
>> >> the A/C.
>> >>
>> How does the cost of the fuel to run you aircon compare to the thousands
>> of pounds of depreciation your car is costing you?
>>
My car was 6 years old with 100k on the clock when I bought it, don't think depreciation really comes into the matter!
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>>Can't stand riding in a car with people who set it to maximum heat and then turn the fan on and off.
I know someone who does this. I spent a very uncomfortable journey last Winter with maximum heat blasting out of the eyeball vents, frying my eyeballs, while my feet froze. They had a car with A/C for over a year and swore it wasn't fitted until I showed them the button.
I spent another journey with a driver who kept switching the A/C on and off because he complained it was too cold with it on for longer periods. He was amazed at my suggestion that he could mix some warm air with it.
I now don't give a damn and adjust the controls from the passenger seat.
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My impression in the days when I had manual AC was that mixing heated and cooled air was an option but that it would leave the AC pump running continuously. That meant I tended to control the AC with the button instead. One benefit of true CC is that it can switch the AC on and off as required so it should be lighter on fuel. I do occasionally switch off the Volvo's AC but I've never noticed any difference in power or economy, probably because I do it on days when there's not much for the AC to do anyway.
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>> I now don't give a damn and adjust the controls from the passenger seat.
>>
Do you know, I do that...more often than I should probably. I know it's rude, but just can't help myself, when I can't see out for condensation or the temp is at an extreme.
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Even if preople were to read the manual you don't think the vast majority would understand it do you? Now I am retired I have enough trouble remembering what day it is. I had to refer to the manual a few days ago, my car has dual zone CC but I use it in single mode. Mrs ON dual zoned it and I could not remember how to single zone it again.
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I think climate control is one thing that car manufacturers have massively improved the last years. The CC on my 530d is virtually draft free, except when cooling or heating the interior after first starting the car, and completely unobtrusive in operation. It simply maintains the selected termperature in the cabin and I almost never touch the controls except when I'm bored.
The dual zone system in VWs is also excellent, although the controls in the Golf 6 are fiddlier and cheaper looking than in the Golf 5.
I really notice the difference when I drive my 16 year old Merc. This has, for its time, an excellent but conventional dual zone aircon system. I find myself continually fiddling with the temperature and fan controls.
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My late mother-in-law hated draughts in a car and would never allow me to have the aircon/climate on in my Xantia when we were taking her about even on the warmest day.
In the winter in her own car she would wear coat, hat, boots, gloves... turn the fan and distribution sliders to off... then use a cloth to demist the screen as she drove along. She never found the HRW switch as she regarded anything behind her as someone else's problem.
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>>I really notice the difference when I drive my 16 year old Merc. This has, for its time, an excellent but conventional dual zone aircon system. I find myself continually fiddling with the temperature and fan controls.
I found that my W124 was not doing a good job of controlling the temperature, and SWMBO was constantly fiddling about with the dials. The problem was the sampling fan had failed, and wasn't drawing air over the temperature sensor in the interior light housing. The fan is behind the passenger side airbag on my RHD car, and you can just about hear it running with the ignition on. After replacing the fan, the temperature control is now much faster.
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Hi N_C. Wasn't the air sampling fan on the W124 only fitted on models with the full climate control (push button system) rather than the conventional air con with rotary controls?
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No, I don't think so, my car only has the basic rotary controls and is fitted with the sampling fan.
Having said that, the aircon is the dealer fit Diavia system rather than MB, but, the sensor, tube and fan are all MB parts, and I *think* they are fitted on all W124s.
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I'll have a look at mine then. Thanks for the tip, learned something else about W124s!
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No-one here does it, of course, but how many know people who still wipe the inside of the glass with a hand? I'll grass up my mum and my F-in-L for this - and they wonder why they have difficulty seeing out at night or against a low sun.
The westbound M4 ground almost to a halt at several points yesterday evening. There was no accident or breakdown, just people with filthy, smeary screens slowing to a crawl because they couldn't see against the sun.
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>> The westbound M4 ground almost to a halt at several points yesterday evening. There was
>> no accident or breakdown, just people with filthy, smeary screens slowing to a crawl because
>> they couldn't see against the sun.
Yes, I've noticed "those people" crawling out of the woodwork again as the temperatures have dropped over the past few nights. I followed a young lady in a Corsa out of the town yesterday who, on negotiating a bend and coming into direct sunlight swerved across to the wrong side of the road, back again, and performed an emergency stop. Her windscreen was completely fogged apart from the small area that she was wiping furiously.
I tend to give the inside of mine a once over with Windolene every month or so. It seems to really help demisting.
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...I tend to give the inside of mine a once over with Windolene every month or so...
The windscreen of the CC3 is always clean, even if the rest of the car is not.
I will make myself a few minutes late to clean the windscreen, rather than set off with it dirty.
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Climate control - Skoda
