Jezuz
Filled up Friday, 104.9 litre.
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Same here.....supply and demand - I filled up the oil tank the other day less than 180 notes for 500 litres....that is cheap.
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Our local garage has put price up by 2p ltr - (only place around for miles) when this is all over me be travelling 20 miles to barrow for my fuel fill-ups and get some cheaper shopping in from aldi at same time!
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>> Same here.....supply and demand - I filled up the oil tank the other day less
>> than 180 notes for 500 litres....that is cheap.
Talk about. I have an oil delivery tomorrow and it took some haggling to get them down to 43p plus vat, so yours at 36p Inc vat is impressive.
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Could do with a 700 Ltr top up Looking at 37p / 38p per litre round here.
How quickly does the price drop reflect at the point of ordering?
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Its been a mild winter as well, with no market for fuel oil, and reduced demand for heating oil, its a buyers market.
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I’ve no idea where aviation fuel sits in the hierarchy of distillation of crude, but there’s going to be virtually no demand for that in the short to medium term either...
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BoilerJuice Crankcase. The price actually came down between delivery and ordering - they credited the reduction to my "tank account" Very efficient service. I've signed up to their connected service now.
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This time, as every other, my usual supplier undercut Boilerjuice (by a ha'penny). Never found Boilerjuice competitive when it comes down to it.
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I filled up 4-5 weeks ago at 42 pence nett of v.a.t. last week it was down to 22 pence according to my farmer neighbour. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Pity there's nowhere to drive to.
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With the reduction in demand for petrol and diesel in the UK (and probably worldwide) there will be a massive oversupply in the market:
- there is limited capacity to store excess fuel produced
- oil based economies (Saudi, Russia, USA) will slump as prices and volumes fall
- excess refinery capacity will push down prices with older less efficient plants mothballed
- fuel outlets in UK are likely seeing around 50% reduction in demand - possible closures?
So no surprise fuel is getting cheaper. Even at £1.04 per litre, 58p is duty, 17p is VAT, leaving about 29p for refining, distribution, retailer costs and margins. Brent crude is now $23 a barrel - a barrel holds 159 litres - ignoring refining losses etc this equals about 15 cents (13p) a litre.
Even if the Saudis etc gave away the crude oil at zero cost the UK motorist would still pay around 90p a litre!!
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Just before I set off to come to work this morning I'm pretty sure R4 Business News said that there was a strong possibility that a barrel of oil could go into a negative value, not sure how that would work?
Also what's the time delay on the oil price coming down and the price at the pumps?
Local Shell is still at £1.29 for diesel.
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Costco has been 99.9p for unleaded for a few weeks now.
Shame my fuel costs 0.0p still.
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It means producers would pay companies/countries to take it off their hands. I don't think that's particularly likely tbh.
I do wonder how full storage depots are around the world? I know the US have got huge storage capacity across the country.
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>> I don't think that's particularly likely tbh.
On the contrary, it's very likely especially on land locked installations with not ships to either store it on or ship it elsewhere.
Especially since they are likely to be the first to lose customers/orders.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 31 Mar 20 at 16:06
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> On the contrary, it's very likely especially on land locked installations with not ships to
>> either store it on or ship it elsewhere.
>>
>>
It might well happen in certain places, that's its cheaper to take a loss, the saudis have done it in the past.
although what I meant was that the price of crude would drop to zero. I believe that to be unlikely.
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>>I meant was that the price of crude would drop to zero. I believe that to be unlikely.
Across the world, no you are almost certainly correct. There is a difference between stock market quoted prices and the price that a producer can achieve in the real and operational world. There will always be demand, at least for the next couple of hundred years or so. And the larger, financially more sound, cheaper producers will benefit.
But it will for some producers. And that is not sustainable for any great length of time.
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e.g. I don't think Venezuela can get any further into the toilet, but if it can then it is about to.
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>>a barrel of oil could go into a negative value, not sure how that would work?
Because it's still being produced. To shut down and start up costs a great deal of money, even if starting up again is possible, which it sometimes isn't.
Storing it not only costs a lot to do, they may not even have the facilities to do so.
The cost of paying someone to take it away can be less than the cost of storing it, paying someone else to store it or the cost of shutting down and hopefully restarting.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 31 Mar 20 at 16:03
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>>Also what's the time delay on the oil price coming down and the price at the pumps?
Even if they are being decent about it, quite a long time. At the moment they will still be selling fuel they agreed to buy 2 months ago.
And they won't be 'decent' about it. They've always been quicker to pass on the future liability of higher prices rather than future savings from lower prices.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 31 Mar 20 at 16:08
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Sorry for the multiple posts;
Of course what happens in these times is that the most expensive producers and the least financially robust producers whither and die.
While the lowest cost, most robust producers not only survive they get to take over the world.
Saudi is the lowest cost producer.
The other thing is that as oil price drops it completely screws up the business case for things like fracking, alternative energy, deeper or more difficult to obtain resource, renewables, low carbon electricity etc. etc.
Those then become entirely driven by 'green' issues and it becomes more difficult to find partners to actually invest.
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Posted this last night on the wrong thread...
As I recall Scotland's Independence budget was based upon oil at around $100 per barrel? As a result of a price war, falling demand normally, and crashing demand because of Coronavirus it's now $23 per barrel; they might think that a bullet has been dodged.
I wonder where that leaves Sturgeon and her insistence on second referendum. Surely Scotland simply cannot be viable standalone with oil revenues that low?
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>> I wonder where that leaves Sturgeon and her insistence on second referendum.
They sent her homeward tae think again?
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800 Ltrs of Heating Oil ordered today 21.80p /Ltr £183.12. Not too shabby.
Would have been £5 cheaper 2 days ago. :(
Allegedly the Chinese are now on the buy for oil and grain.
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SNP live in an ideal world - a little cottage, a plot of land, a few sheep & a cow BUT "we will be free"
2014 £8Bn of tax revenues & 10s of thousands of high paying jobs.
2020 At best ZERO tax receipts - could be negative as companies use losses to reclaim tax paid in advance.
Serious job losses in Aberdeen & the rest of Scotland as oil companies & support firms shed people.
$25 is not economic BUT companies needing $30 to break even will still pump oil as closing down & NO sales revenue is more expensive.
Closing down & restarting can gives lots of safety problems, re starting can be hazardous + great expense - some companies will find losing $5 is the cheaper & safer route.
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My heating oil order of 800 Ltr arrived yesterday £183.12 @ 21.80p / Ltr (ordered 24/4)
Out of curiosity I checked the price yesterday £166.30 @ 19.80p / Ltr
Today £154.98 @ 18.45p / Ltr.
I need to find something to do.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Wed 29 Apr 20 at 13:03
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At approx 10kWh per litre, and generally very efficient boilers compared to gas, that's a good bit less than domestic gas now.
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I just moved onto a tracker tariff for gas, average daily unit price is getting on for 2/3rds of my (already quite reasonable) tariff. I was on 3.01p + VAT but now it looks nearer 2.3p.
(Also just moved to the Agile time-of-use electricity tariff which I've mentioned elsewhere recently)
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Still £1.099 litre at my local garage. And still 24mpg. Can’t say I’m not doing my bit for HMRC.
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>>Also just moved to the Agile time-of-use electricity tariff
Must be a point where having a 'powerwall' or similar battery storage becomes feasible without solar panels.
Agile tariffs are sometimes negative (ie they pay you to take electricity) although the flip side is they can reach 30p+ per unit in peak daytime.
30-40kWh of battery charged at approx. zero cost overnight and then tapped for the rest of the day would be great.
Other than the several grand required for the battery....
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Yeah the peak daytime is always pricey and always between 16:00 - 19:00. You'd need a fairly chunky (= pricey) bunch of batteries to take care of a half decent evening meal, and they aren't yet cheap enough for me. There are plenty who have complex control equipment so the batteries are charged when the rate is cheapest (or negative which is rare and depends on quite good forecasts for cheap renewable energy going into the grid next day).
I've been on the Go tariff (4 hrs cheap overnight) for a while but I have comparative data coming n overnight via my program and I can see that at the moment, particularly because I am not charging the car a lot, Agile saves a reasonable amount. In fact since day 1 (Nov 2018) it would only have been £50 more but more than £50 was in the first 4 months - so I could have swapped ages ago. And that's without making any effort to do the more heavy duty stuff at cheaper times, which is mostly remarkably easy once you get the hang of it.
PS Some newer cars and charge units can work both ways so your car becomes a store for you (and for the grid if you want) at times
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 29 Apr 20 at 17:25
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>> I need to find something to do.
Like working out what you would have spent that 29 quid on?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 1 May 20 at 03:06
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With my usual impeccable timing, I filled the oil tank about a fortnight ago at .44 a litre. Lovely.
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Heating Oil
Wednesday 29th April 800 Ltr £154.98 @ 18.45p / Ltr.
Today 6th May 800 Ltr £ 208.00 @ 24.8p / Ltr.
That's quite an increase.
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RP said on 29 March "I filled up the oil tank the other day less than 180 notes for 500 litres...." which I make about 36p a litre so maybe we missed the earlier post which said
"Wednesday 29th April 800 Ltr £154.98 @ 18.45p / Ltr." that's quite a decrease"
:-)
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So today picked up a2lt of Diet Coke 2.10 .......later I filled up with diesel and it for 2 lots was cheaper than the Pepsi
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>> So today picked up a2lt of Diet Coke 2.10 .......later I filled up with diesel
>> and it for 2 lots was cheaper than the Pepsi
>>
The price of bottled water in petrol stations astounds me, often more expensive than fuel.
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Same in airports.
If you are a customer at an airport food retailer which sells alcohol, then by law they have to provide you with free water on request. When I fly I often buy a coffee and kindly ask them to fill my 1 litre Sigg aluminium water container.
Last edited by: legacylad on Wed 13 May 20 at 23:45
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Filled up the CRV with just over 35 litres of diesel yesterday at Asda in Eastbourne . Price was 104.8 per litre . I cannot remember the last time it was that cheap. In fact I cannot remember what I paid the time before to fill up but it was a hell of a lot more than that.
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I think the nearest Costco are selling diesel for 103p and petrol for 99p, not sure there's anywhere cheaper than that.
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>> I think the nearest Costco are selling diesel for 103p and petrol for 99p, not
>> sure there's anywhere cheaper than that.
I think Morrisons have a max price of 99p. Usually they price locally which has long meant fuel to be 3 or 4 pence a litre more in Northampton than in Leicester.
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Was at Costco yesterday and that was their prices.
Was tempted to fill up but car still has a quarter tank so if things don’t change that will do me fir another two or three weeks anyway!
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I topped up overnight while asleep at a cost of 1.2p per kWh. That rate puts my (roughly) gallon equivalent at about 14p :-)
Mind you, although that's cheap it's not as cheap as the free solar powered top ups, or better still the plunge price ones I get paid for!!
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101.9 is the cheapest near me.
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99.9p per L at Sainsbo's Bury St Edmunds.
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I think fuel has actually gone up here, about 10%, since the crisis started.
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My town has a cartel of an Esso and Shell service station, they always have the same price. They are currently trying to sell diesel for 114.9. Five miles down the road is an independent who are selling same for 104.9. Guess who gets my business!
Last edited by: FuzzyDuck on Thu 21 May 20 at 15:13
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I run the Fiesta Econetic on super diesel; it seems to improve the economy by a good 20% and, as I've had injectors replaced at 140k a couple of times in the past, I now swallow all the guff about it providing protection as it approaches 130k.
The BP on my commute still wants 145.9p/litre, but I found some at the Esso in Hitchin for 20p less than that.
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This warm weather will elicit much better MPG mileages from diesels.
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There's a 2.5 hour bout of plunge pricing tomorrow afternoon on the Octopus Agile tariff, which is unusual. That's when they pay me to take their electricity away. Best rate is at 3pm when there is 30 minutes of them paying me a bit over 3p a unit.
I should be able to get the car charged and I'll save the dishwasher and any washing till then too. I think I'd earn around 40p for the car fill-up if it were empty but it isn't. I'll hardly get rich but it's better than paying them for it!! I suppose some might put on the oven and stick a heater or two out on the garden but I couldn't be that wasteful!!
I just had my first bill on this tariff and my average cost per unit is down to 5.88p/kWh from about 11.27/kWh. Quite a saving and fairly effortless.
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That went well but there is an even bigger price plunge tomorrow - there's one 2 hour period between 01:00 and 16:00 when I don't earn money for using electricity.
Astronomical rates too - between 14:00 and 15:00 the rate paid to me per kWh ranges between 9.9p to 10.78p.
I need to do my bit to relieve the pressure on the Grid so will probably drive around tomorrow before 9 so I can charge the car again.
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With 3-phase supply I should be able to reliably run fifty 1-bar electric fires and earn up to £5 an hour overnight.
Or be given a fiver to fill my car up.
If I was on Agile.
Which I'm not :-(
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Price of Fuel - R.P.
