"The firm says it will appeal against the decision and can continue to operate during that process."
I think it would be a shame if they did disappear. Why they can't/won't put their house in order, I don't know.
I would like to see an alternative to the dinosaur like black cab trade. Why shouldn't we be able to call up a car using a smart phone app?
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>> Why shouldn't we be able to call up a car using a smart phone app?
I'm pretty sure there are apps to call black cabs in London. Same locally with cabs and private hire.
Issue with Uber seems to be their inability to put house in order. Haven't looked at BBC report but Guardian website suggests several thousand rides where there was no insurance. Drivers swapping cars/permits and allowing people who wouldn't pass CRB type checks to drive.
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>> Issue with Uber seems to be their inability to put house in order. Haven't looked
>> at BBC report but Guardian website suggests several thousand rides where there was no insurance.
>> Drivers swapping cars/permits and allowing people who wouldn't pass CRB type checks to drive.
Over 14,000 of them, while they were still under their probation period having been accused of the same before.
UBER is a thoroughly disreputable company and any company that develops an internal app (Greyball) to bypass regulatory checking needs to be put out of business.
The Uber concept in itself is not an issue and is a good thing, its just that Uber is unfit to operate it.
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I hate travelling by taxi. Definitely the last choice as far as I am concerned. In London I would choose walking, tube, bus, taxi in that order. It’s not the cost either, just dislike the whole taxi experience
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>> I hate travelling by taxi. Definitely the last choice as far as I am concerned.
Oh good Lord, traveling around london by Black Cab is the ultimate way to go, you can call it on the side of the street, and have it drop you inches away from where you need to be, Busses, Tube cant do that, For cross london speed however, its the tube, but that is without doubt the most unpleasant form of transport other than walking on hot coals,
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you can call it on the side of the street, and have it drop you inches away from where you need to be
Anything up to a couple of mile is walkable and infinitely preferable to putting up with views of a cab driver in a vehicle smelling of air freshener, disinfectant and aftershave.
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View of the situation from a site which doesn't follow the Guardian party line:
" Sadiq Khan has dangled red meat to the unions over Uber since he became Mayor. The ban this morning was the second time the popular ride app service has been whacked by him. Why, you might ask, is Sadiq so keen to inconvenience the millions of Londoners – and potential voters – who use and enjoy the Uber app?
Electoral Commission records show that in 2015, Sadiq received almost £100,000 from three anti-Uber trade unions.
GMB: £20,000
TSSA: £15,000
Unite: £60,000
All three unions welcomed the decision today, they have been campaigning against new entrants into the taxi market for years. Limiting competition for taxis in London might hurt consumers, on the other hand it helps these powerful unions who are busily recruiting London cabbies to their ranks. Sadiq is paying them back ahead of passing the hat around next year for donations when he seeks re-election.
Sadiq has also burdened Uber with conditions attached to the Private-Hire Operators licence to which other operators are not being held. The last Uber London licence had 20 regulatory requirements, whereas other app based operators have no more than 9. Sadiq is singling out Uber for political reasons…"
License was withdrawn 2years ago, but magistrates held the cancellation for two years to let Uber correct the problems.
They're appealing again, and can operate until the appeal is heard.
I'm a long way from London, so I don't know what the frequency of issues is - is it significant.
It seems to me that the London minicab system doesn't work as well as the Private Hire licensing system elsewhere - again not based on a thorough experience in the capital.
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>> Sadiq has also burdened Uber with conditions attached to the Private-Hire Operators licence to which
>> other operators are not being held. The last Uber London licence had 20 regulatory requirements,
>> whereas other app based operators have no more than 9. Sadiq is singling out Uber
>> for political reasons…"
Because they have been found to be non compliant with little oversight in very many ways.
The fact there are so many non black cab taxi services in London should show that the (lets admit it in the scheme of things very small) sums of money were of no consequence.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 25 Nov 19 at 16:47
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I have seen a person who from central London got a bill for 529.77 when their Prius driver drove out towards the A40 M25 to Gillingham in Kent ......well he was following his sat Nav , it just depends what details he put in . 3.5hr journey , that woukd probably have been under 150 in a black cab . Still more than I would have spent , but that’s Uber for you
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There may be (in fact probably are) some areas where the private hire trade need to improve.
But the principal reason for the opposition to Uber is simply protection of trade on the part of the black cabs. This will only be sustainable if the mayoral elections elect another "leftwinger".
Uber generally seem to provide lower fares than black cabs. There will always be exceptions but it's difficult without clear evidence to know if it is symptomatic , rare or simply untrue.
The black cab traded, as did much of UK manufacturing business, on a very strong brand, good product and professionalism. A lot of manufacturing business has failed over the last 30 years with a head in the sand belief in their good qualities, irrespective of what the customer wanted or the opposition offered.
Translated into the taxi business - Uber offered on line apps, payment online, cheaper fares (I've been very happy on the odd occasion I've used them), frequently with environmentally friendly vehicles (Prius). The black cab trade in denial failed to respond in 2012 when Uber launched in London with a remotely competitive offering:
- no app base (appeals to younger generation) - stick your arm out and hope one stops!
- no electric or hybrid cabs (may be available now)
- cab designs which reflect outdated regulation
- insistence on "the knowledge" rather than common sense use of satnav technology
- limited automated payment systems (some may have taken credit cards)
Uber are now doubt looking forward to the day (possibly not that far off) when driverless technology is adopted. Uber technology will make their electric cabs charge less than half the price of black cabs - no driver to pay!
I know this may make an uncomfortable read for some - but head in the sand is not a winning solution unless you are nearing retirement.
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>>
>> I have seen a person who from central London got a bill for 529.77 when
>> their Prius driver
Evidence?
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>> >>
>> >> I have seen a person who from central London got a bill for 529.77
>> when
>> >> their Prius driver
>>
>> Evidence?
>>
www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/500-uber-bill-has-ruined-my-christmas-218937/
and includes a screenshot of the route taken.
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How are Black Cab drivers vetted? Is the procedure the same for Uber drivers?
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>> How are Black Cab drivers vetted?
Enhanced CRB check, every three years.
>>Is the procedure the same for Uber drivers?
The requirement is the same, but the procedure is very different. For black cabs the cabby has to submit the check to TfL, for Uber, as a self employed driver you just need to tick a check box to say you have one. Uber dont maintain a record or make random vetting checks..
In use, the black cab has a license on the outside, and the drivers photo and license displayed inside. The Uber has a dent on the outside and any old bloke inside.
Lets be honest tho, the chances of you having an issue using either is remote.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 22 Dec 19 at 10:57
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>> The requirement is the same, but the procedure is very different. For black cabs the
>> cabby has to submit the check to TfL, for Uber, as a self employed driver
>> you just need to tick a check box to say you have one.
>>
Then the procedure must have changed since the days when I was a black cab driver, or a minicab driver, or a private hire driver.
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>> Then the procedure must have changed since the days when I was a black cab
>> driver, or a minicab driver, or a private hire driver.
For Uber?
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My minicab driving and private hire driving (same thing) were controlled by the local authority. Criminal record checks were carried out by DBS, I think - Disclosure and Barring Service, if I recall correctly. You couldn't certify yourself as being conviction free. Neither was it done by the employer.
www.gov.uk/request-copy-criminal-record
tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing/private-hire-driver-licence
Last edited by: Duncan on Sun 22 Dec 19 at 12:53
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There was an article on the BBC's Click recently about UBER with their drivers struggling to find out how the booking algorithm worked.
He reported that UBER is not sending the nearest cab to the booker, even though they were supposed to and had potential passengers standing by his taxi booking and UBER sent cars from some distance away.
The reporter tested this and found it to be the same - with the reporter actually inside the cab when he booked it!
Seems UBER cannot even be transparent with their own drivers.
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I would have guessed it was more complicated than just sending the nearest one, because you would want as many customers as possible to have an acceptable maximum waiting time rather than some having a very wait at the expense of somebody else having a very elongated one. You might also want your algorithm to process allocations in batches so as to optimise the overall distance travelled.
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Kind of sharing out the delay rather than dumping it all on one person?
Makes good sense I guess.
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Used black cabs 4 times in London over the weekend - was 6 of us so we used the hybrid jobs that look a bit like the old black cabs (which only seat 5 passengers) but are quicker, quieter and have a huge skyroof (and cost close to 70 grand apparently).
Cabbies all knew exactly where we were going, naming the streets as well as the destination.
Wouldn't touch an Uber.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LEVC_TX
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Uber 'lose' licence in London - Duncan
