Electric cars have a problem of external charging and a battery exchange system would also be problematic compared with another wheeze that I have heard of.
Cars would have two batteries. One drives the car but a power take-off is used to charge the other. Functions are switched when the other is fully charged.
Thus, the car could be driven indefinitely without external help for the life of the batteries. This would be a huge selling point - but could it work?
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Unlimited power from a battery? Yeah sure why not.
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One cannot create or destroy energy, only convert it.
Kinetic and heat energy would reduce the resources available for battery charging.
So no, it would not and could not work.
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OP is either old & confused
or
Has posted this tongue in cheek
or
Has left school in the last 10 years and received a bog standard education in lowly rated comprehensive
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Clearly has not heard of the perpetual motion machine....
Ambo - do you also believe in chemtrails and a flat earth?
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Arguments ad hominem are always weak and can be ignored.
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no it cant work, you are using energy, not creating any.
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What is this "power take-off"? A generator driven by an internal combustion engine?
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>> What is this "power take-off"? A generator driven by an internal combustion engine?
It would seem to me to be a motor driven by the second battery driving a generator to charge the primary battery.
Remember the guy that had a plethora of wind generators attached to their car to charge batteries?
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>> Remember the guy that had a plethora of wind generators attached to their car to
>> charge batteries?
No? got any videos or photos? that would be amusing.
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What about if the battery that is not in use is topped up using a solar panel?
Ok I'm going to say it as we are having a bit of a joke......... mini nuclear reactor! aren't the Russians developing them from a cruise missile?
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Would you really need two batteries? Can batteries be charges as they are depleted?
I reckon the best solution is battery powered cars with an electric pickup for longer journey with either a rail buried in the road, like Scalextric cars, or poles connecting to overhead cables like trams or bumper cars. Road charging could be used to pay for the electricity used.
Of course it would cost billions to implement and overhead or buried copper would be a thief's delight.
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Funny things bumper cars. They use the floor and the ceiling as anode and cathode.
When I was a sprog we had trolley buses in Huddersfield. The network had its own substations, a few of which are still there. You'd need a lot of those if all the cars were charging up while driving about.
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>> When I was a sprog we had trolley buses in Huddersfield.
i can remember trolley buses in London. It wasn't that long ago when they had to do some major road works in Thames Ditton and revealed the tram tracks from the big circular end of line turn around.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 15 Nov 19 at 23:14
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>> Ok I'm going to say it as we are having a bit of a joke.........
>> mini nuclear reactor! aren't the Russians developing them from a cruise missile?
Oh fab, its bad enough cleaning up a diesel spill after a prang.......
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>>
>> >> Ok I'm going to say it as we are having a bit of a
>> joke.........
>> >> mini nuclear reactor! aren't the Russians developing them from a cruise missile?
>>
>> Oh fab, its bad enough cleaning up a diesel spill after a prang.......
>>
Oh, now that's an idea.
Forget lithium watsamathing batteries. Use good old fashioned lead acid batteries.
Road traffic accidents will clean themselves up after a few hours!
(I'm off to the patent office right now.)
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 15 Nov 19 at 23:29
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>> >> Remember the guy that had a plethora of wind generators attached to their car
Sorry. can't find it now. IIRC they were stopped on the M1. No doubt some eco-warrior.
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....windsailing is the answer. Mercedes have even done a design specially for Z.... ;-)
tinyurl.com/yeq7avzb
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>> ....windsailing is the answer. Mercedes have even done a design specially for Z.... ;-)
Pffttt, I have a propellor on the front of mine, cant get the damn thing to spin round tho. Not sure how effective it will be when i do, its a tad small.
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>> ....windsailing is the answer. Mercedes have even done a design specially for Z.... ;-)
Do they do an estate version?
;-)
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Well lets face it, MB estates handle like yachts.
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....brings new meaning to Mercs being considered a bit tacky....
;-)
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>> Well lets face it, MB estates handle like yachts.
>>
No?
Nobody going to bite? Oh well....
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Indeed they are a bit like yachts, in so far as they tend to be used by discerning gentlemen...
;-)
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It is a shame that manufacturers can't get it together and use one standard physical size battery that can be easily exchanged.
Drive your electric car into an exchange station, put it on the ramp like in an MOT centre, a forklift type device lifts out the old battery and pops in a recharged one and off you go. The whole thing shouldn't be much longer than a petrol fill up, particularly if you didn't do any shopping, coffee buying etc.
Your old battery would then be recharged, maybe at night, for someone else to use.
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>> Drive your electric car into an exchange station, put it on the ramp like in
>> an MOT centre, a forklift type device lifts out the old battery and pops in
>> a recharged one and off you go. The whole thing shouldn't be much longer than
>> a petrol fill up, particularly if you didn't do any shopping, coffee buying etc.
20 cars in at a time? 20 forklifts? 1000 used battery packs? 1000 charged ones, 250 in some state between the two? You are looking at a warehouse not a filling station. And you'd need more than the current number of stations due to the lower range.
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" 20 cars in at a time? 20 forklifts? 1000 used battery packs? 1000 charged ones, 250 in some state between the two? You are looking at a warehouse not a filling station. "
I don't see 20 cars at a time at a petrol filling station.
I don't even see all the present charging points, of which there may be a bank of only say 3, all occupied at any one time.
In the early days of the car one bought petrol in containers from the chemist/pharmacy - when the demand grew we had little one pump garages.
Still, petrol powered cars never really caught on because of refueling issues did they.
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate II on Sat 16 Nov 19 at 18:40
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>> I don't see 20 cars at a time at a petrol filling station.
Cobham services fills 4500 cars a day, Thats 9000 battery packs each weighing in excess of 100 kilos.
>> I don't even see all the present charging points, of which there may be a
>> bank of only say 3, all occupied at any one time.
I was in costco yesterday, they have 30. Oxford services have 30 and thats just Tesla ones.
>> Still, petrol powered cars never really caught on because of refueling issues did they.
Being sarcastically trite wont fix the massive and weighty impractical logistic issues of your plan.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 16 Nov 19 at 19:43
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So I am going to leave my brand new £10,000 battery pack in exchange for a clapped out ten year old one at the end of its life? Or perhaps I’m not going to own a battery at all and the charging station is going to lend me a £10,000 batterypack free of charge to store the £50 worth of electricity I have paid them for.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 16 Nov 19 at 19:24
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I don't think it's ever going to be practical to remove them at the drop of a hat. They aren't ever going to be like mobile phone batteries you can pop out in seconds.
Have a look at how integral they are to the car. You're never going to reduce it down to a short process. Its akin to changing the engine and petrol tank for an ICE car.
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" Have a look at how integral they are to the car. "
Precisely - sort it and then you have mass electric car use with effectively unlimited range.
We'd then need about 30 more nuclear powered electricity generating stations though - but that's another issue.
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate II on Sat 16 Nov 19 at 18:43
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>> " Have a look at how integral they are to the car. "
>>
>> Precisely - sort it and then you have mass electric car use with effectively unlimited
>> range.
>>
I don't think it's possible to 'sort it' you can't change major components in a car quickly. They are big and hefty and nothing is really going to change that.
In an ideal world sure, but in reality it's not going to happen.
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After 30ish years of cell phones we have no two models using the same battery and still more than 3 commonly used connectors.
Commonality of connectors makes sense, but there is little advantage to the manufacturers in commonality of battery. They want the freedom of exactly the size, shape and performance which fits the model they are selling and their performance specs.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 16 Nov 19 at 19:12
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Renault have long since tried and then abandoned the interchangeable battery thing in cars. 2008/9 I think it was, in Israel.
Didn't work.
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Tesla buried their plans quite a few years back.
And considering how bonkers Elon Musk is to do things differently, it must really have been a cack idea.
£30k will soon buy a family car that can travel 300 miles, on £3 of overnight electricity, and where necessary can recharge those 300 miles in 30 minutes at a roadside charger (ie after 5 hours of driving).
Tesla's Model 3 currently charges at ~190kW from it's latest superchargers (peaking at 250kW initially) but the 300+ mile variant is £47k.
£22k already buys one* that can do 160miles, on £2 of overnight electricity, has low-level autonomous driving, and can recharge ~130 miles in 40 minutes on a 50kW rapid (for SFA in Scotland currently)
Since most EVs charge overnight when demand is lowest on the network (yeah ok solar ain't much cope at night!) the "30 new Hinckleys" is nonsense.
ICE is dying - its death throes will last a couple of decades though.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sat 16 Nov 19 at 19:49
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>> ICE is dying - its death throes will last a couple of decades though.
and me
>>its death throes will last a couple of decades though.
and me
Which is why I went BIIIIG - we'll go out with a bang together.
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>>Which is why I went BIIIIG - we'll go out with a bang together.
Yeah. That juicy 5.0V8 Mustang looks like a nice plaything....
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>> Renault have long since tried and then abandoned the interchangeable battery thing in cars. 2008/9
>> I think it was, in Israel.
>>
>> Didn't work.
>>
>>
They did indeed. It was called Better Place. It failed a bit later than 2009 and they tried in Australia as well.
The concept was sensible but probably 5+ years ahead of its time. Some of the cars are still on the road and there is an informal network of users who permit charging at others houses when on a journey. But Israel is small and so it works. One of my neighbours had one and a high current charger installed in the underground garage.
However the issue of different battery shapes may impede further development of the concept.
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>> After 30ish years of cell phones we have no two models using the same battery
>> and still more than 3 commonly used connectors.
With reference to phones currently in use at home we are now down to 2, if you include all USB charged stuff not just phones, its 6
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Am finding the switch from wee USB to USB C a pain in the bum with various kids' electronics!
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And USB C is bigger than wee usb. Seems retrograde.
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>> And USB C is bigger than wee usb. Seems retrograde.
Presumably there's more difference than just the shape?
Mrs B's latest tablet has USB C it's OK plugged into same USB chargers as micro versions by own kit uses but does it offer more when mated with a fully compatible charger?
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>> >> And USB C is bigger than wee usb. Seems retrograde.
>>
>> Presumably there's more difference than just the shape?
>>
>> Mrs B's latest tablet has USB C it's OK plugged into same USB chargers as
>> micro versions by own kit uses but does it offer more when mated with a
>> fully compatible charger?
Turbo charging
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>> And USB C is bigger than wee usb. Seems retrograde.
>>
Considerably more robust though.
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Could this work? - sooty123
