i am seriously pondering buying a caravan. Its likely to be a Swift Basecamp or a Freedom Jetstream Twin Sport, both suit my weekend only, need a toilet, sleep, drink cold beer, warm up a charlie brigham curry, requirement.
To that end we are off to the motorhome and caravan show at the NEC in Oct, where final choice will be made.
So opening this thread as a place to throw my queries into the open.
My first is,
There appears to be two mainstream caravan clubs. Who would have known there was a schism. Which one is the best
www.caravanclub.co.uk/
www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/
Which one would meet my requirements best
|
Funny how people change.. .:-)
Going back a few years to when I had one, we joined the Caravan Club. I think they did cheap insurance, though like many affiliation type deals it wasn't so cheap anyway. We never went to any of their sites as at the time our kids were kids and the impression I had of the CC sites was that they were a bit spartan and full of old people. I'm sure that's changed though.
TBH I'm not really sure of the value of joining either if you are just doing what I think you will be. I'm assuming you want it mainly for dog shows which I would imagine often are in rural places and probably have their own camp fields.
Anyway I'm sure someone with more recent/relevant experience wil be along soon!
|
>>i am seriously pondering buying a caravan
Nooooooooooooooo!
Static caravans or do the decent thing and spend the same money on half decent B&Bs.
|
We joined the Caravan (and Motorhome) Club - they were useful for us to access their main sites once in a while and more generally their Certified Locations (private sites for 5 or fewer vans) - they were recommended to us by a friend (who knows MH stuff) as the best of the two. They were ok as "clubs" go - I hated the bigger sites and tended only to use them for one night stops once in blue moon in between the CLs for a proper shower and laundry facilities. Access to sites is the main requirement of being in a club and the CC had plenty.
Some of the larger sites were very well kept but were also very regimented, but I guess some people like them
Last edited by: R.P. on Wed 7 Aug 19 at 07:59
|
Really it's whichever has the location(s) you want, assuming you want to use the sites. We were in both for years. Overall we have used more Caravan [& Motorhome] Club ones - they are more likely to have heated 'facilities' and tend to have more, and larger, hard standing pitches. But our favourite site probably remains Rosemarkie, which is run by the other lot.
If you want to rely solely on your own toilet/washing facilities you can make use of many cheaper affiliated 'farm' sites, both have a compendious selection.
The usual thing with club sites in the C&MC is to check in, pay, find your pitch then go back and tell them where you are. The C&CC will often just allocate a pitch but in practice are usually helpful if you request a particular area or want to change.
Some people find the clubs a bit rule bound but, frankly, they tend to be the ones who need telling not to play football around others' cars and caravans, to empty their dogs on grass pitches, or carouse until 3am. You are more likely to have lots of children on C&CC sites during the school holidays but it will happen with both on the popular seaside sites.
I haven't checked the prices recently (haven't caravanned since I was ill in 2018) but you'll probably get your annual membership costs back after 6 or 7 nights with either.
|
This is interesting Zero - genuinely would appreciate hearing the thought process around this. I know for you its probably not a financial decision taken to save money but intrigued to know the thought process?
When I grew up we had a caravan for years - many a family touring holiday in the days when we pulled a big Astral Ranger that slept 7, on the back of a Cortina estate that had 2 kids in the boot!
Stabiliser was a great invention but I daren't even contemplate looking at those weight ratios now!
Are you thinking of buying new or used - think they are like cars that depreciate quite heavily, but then they maybe level off a bit.
What were the pros/cons of this against a camper van - assume a decent specced camper van is much dearer than caravan and you need to commute between site and dog show?
My wife has often talked about getting a tourer once we were a bit older and had another dog... well definitely getting older and the pup at my ankles is definitely a dog!
|
Pretty much endorse what's said above.
We're in both clubs but tend to mostly use C&MH sites. Can see what RP means about regimentation - there's a correct way to park your 'van reversed against a pitch marker with car to left as you face it and awning on right. That works fine for UK caravans but can be an issue if you've got a Hobby or one of the other mainland Europe brands where door is on other side. We like the main sites and have never felt constrained by the regs.
Both clubs have their share of people who can't follow simple rules and others who want every regulation followed to last dotted i and crossed t. If you look on their forums or Facebook groups there are pages of discussion about 'unfairness' where people arrive early or leave late. Even on the club sites provision of toilets is not universal. A lot of people are OK using the caravan loo for a wee in the night but are squeamish about using it for a poo.
I think if you're using the caravan mostly for dog events or following trains then the best club will be the one which has sites near venues you want to visit. CL's are a good tip but they vary from a field with a tap and a loo to places that are nearly as well equipped as the main sites. Not all CL's have electric hookups and of those that do not all provide the full 16amps.
|
>>there's a correct way to park your 'van reversed against a
>> pitch marker with car to left as you face it and awning on right. That
>> works fine for UK caravans but can be an issue if you've got a Hobby
>> or one of the other mainland Europe brands where door is on other side.
We have an Eriba 540 which has the door on the offside. We just put it on the pitch nose first - easy because it has a mover.
We preferred to place it across the back of the pitch with the 'dome' awning out to the front - easier to fit the car on the pitch as with the awning we are wider than we are long. But a few years ago the CC (as it was then) tightened its rules following a fire on a site, and regardless of spacing most site wardens will not now allow this.
To Bobby's point about depreciation - we bought our 2004 Eriba privately in 2006 for £10,800. It now needs a bit of a refurb, nothing major, but 540s of that age are still being offered at £10,000+.
Incidentally Zero, Eribas tow very well. They are narrow (2.0-2.1 metres), relatively low (they have a poptop) and a bit more aerodynamic that traditional 'vans. But they are expensive new.
www.automotiveleisure.co.uk/eriba-for-sale/
|
>> This is interesting Zero - genuinely would appreciate hearing the thought process around this. I
>> know for you its probably not a financial decision taken to save money but intrigued
>> to know the thought process?
Thought processes? There has been many, lets look at the "need" first.
I do dog shows, they are mostly in public parks, football grounds, rugby clubs, cricket grounds, and country show grounds. Some of them are one day, some of them are two day, the odd one or two three day. They are all over the country, and they nearly all offer camping on the ground and loos, often only portaloos tho. There may be a club house, there may be a bar, or often only just a burger van.
I currently try and attend those within a two hour drive (anything more and the dog is too frazzed to compete), and generally I'll only compete one day a weekend, two days on the trot is unfair on the hound.. Now I have qualified to higher classes, a show will take all day, arriving at 08:30 and leaving at 16:30. In between is a lot of hanging about, and you need a base to chill and shelter.
This has been provided to date in the form of an event shelter type arrangement (currently a Khyam screendome) pitched on the back of the Kubelwagen (G31 to you - oh BTW I bought it with factory fit electric tow bar))
This year its changing. I am qualified as a judge, but I still want to work the dog, rules say I cant work a dog and judge on the same day. So I'll work one day of a weekend, and judge the other.
This makes longer journeys with overnight stays feasible, so for example this year I am off to Norwich on the Friday, work the dog Saturday, Judge Sunday, travel home (3 hours) Sunday night.
Overnights is a nearby Travellodge.
BIG PROBLEM, What do I do with the dog while I am judging all day. Car too hot, cant be near the working rings, Solution by others? Caravan or Motorhome with a temp garden round it (in the form of plastic mesh fencing or windbreak) (the pro handleers have 40 foot campers with purpose built airconned kennels incorporated)
So Motorhome or Caravan it is. It needs to be based at home, a storage site kills its practicality, I have 6.5 metres in length to stick it on.
Motorhomes are too restricted once you are away in it, and generally too big for my 6.5 metres.
So caravan it is, only need two berth as its for a three day stay with dog and me.
OOpps Mrs Z (who has caravaning friends) is now excited about the prospect, so It will get w/e use for us and dog, and now it needs a loo to please her.
Sooo caravan research has limited it to a few types, and currently the Swift Basecamp ticks every box, Trouble its expensive, and being new few second hand examples. The Freedom Jet stream is another, but I think its tow hitch may be too low for my fixed height swan neck towbar.
|
Zeddo,
HAve you looked at the Elddis Xplore 304?
www.elddis.co.uk/xplore/xplore-304
|
>> Zeddo,
>>
>> HAve you looked at the Elddis Xplore 304?
>>
>> www.elddis.co.uk/xplore/xplore-304
I'll add it to the look see list at the show.
|
Cheers Zero for the response - by the sound of it most of the sites you will be staying at will be the doggy venues anyway so not actual camp sites? Sort of doggy traveller sites??? :)
How does the security work for the dogs that are not being shown that day - there is a huge business in stealing dogs just now - sends shudders up my spine thinking of these mutts in their own wee gated areas next to the caravans?
Re your shortlist of caravans, is this based on new models only? There must be hundreds of versions of two berth caravans with a loo? Will you be getting an awning as well?
|
>> Cheers Zero for the response - by the sound of it most of the sites
>> you will be staying at will be the doggy venues anyway so not actual camp
>> sites? Sort of doggy traveller sites??? :)
Yes exactly
>> How does the security work for the dogs that are not being shown that day
>> - there is a huge business in stealing dogs just now - sends shudders up
>> my spine thinking of these mutts in their own wee gated areas next to the
>> caravans?
Everyone knows dog and owners. Its all rather incestuous. Get the wrong dog with the wrong handler and a hue and cry would start. Oh we dont "show" dogs, that's for weird breed people,
we "handle and work" dogs.
>> Re your shortlist of caravans, is this based on new models only? There must be
>> hundreds of versions of two berth caravans with a loo? Will you be getting an
>> awning as well?
No new its not a requirement, second hand starting at less than 2 grand is possible.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 13 Aug 19 at 20:47
|
>> No new its not a requirement, second hand starting at less than 2 grand is possible
ok not handy for you, but someone on my local FB pages selling a 2 berth Swift with toilet and shower for 2 grand. Looks very neat actually.
|
|
Autotrader (caravans) is full of possibilities. And a gazziliion makes and models of which I know nothing. For example is length quoted in auto trader adds, the length from rear to tow hitch or just length of body. Is shipping length the space you need to store it on?
|
|
I was a member of the Caravan Club yonks ago. Found them rather rule-bound.
|
>> I was a member of the Caravan Club yonks ago. Found them rather rule-bound.
Was that when you came back at midnight, carousing from Wetherspoon's?
|
>> >> I was a member of the Caravan Club yonks ago. Found them rather rule-bound.
>>
>>
>> Was that when you came back at midnight, carousing from Wetherspoon's?
>>
Who told you about that?
|
Age and infirmity have caused me to give up caravanning. Until recently I was in both clubs. However, the C&CC insurance was much cheaper and gave excellent service. Their camp sites were much cheaper than C&MC and they give a discount for us wrinklies.
For foreign travel C&MC REd Pennant is hard to beat although a tad expensive now.
|
.... mmmm....
"Age and infirmity have caused me to give up caravanning"
..and I always thought that Age and infirmity have caused people to start up caravanning.
|
>>
>> ..and I always thought that Age and infirmity have caused people to start up caravanning.
>>
....no, you're mistaking that with carping.....
;-)
|
...you don't need to join a club, and it is only worth doing so if you are going to avail yourself of the various facilities they offer.
The two main clubs (and I am a member of both, for different reasons) vary somewhat in character, but essentially offer much the same to their members, viz:
- Access to a number of geographically spread club-owned sites, usually (but not always) with reasonably maintained facilities, the Caravan (and Motorhome) Club having slightly more sites, and generally slightly better facilities than does the Camping and Caravanning Club. The C&MC also has more sites open in the off-season.
- Access to a wide network of privately-owned, but members-only "5-van" sites, dubbed CLs by the C&MC, and CSs by the C&CC. (The "5-van" is in quotes as this bestows planning law exemptions in conjunction with the clubs, but is sometimes exceeded). Again, the C&MC has a wider network of these locations, and they run from one extreme to the other as regards quality and facilities (all will/should have fresh water and black waste disposal).
- Access to mainly weekend rallies (C&MC) or DA (C&CC) meets across the country in other locations than above. If the location is where you want, then you can join the meet, and not join in if you get my meaning. My experience is that the C&CC DA meets are the easiest to use.
- A range of member "benefits"; some you might use, many are overplayed. We find we can often save a few pounds on ferry crossings if booked through one of the clubs. Insurance, on the other hand, we can find much better elsewhere.
- The C&CC run "Temporary Holiday Sites" UK-wide across an extended season. The nature of these varies muchly, but they can be a cheap pitch in less obvious areas if the location suits.
- The C&CC offers age-discounts off the main season that can drop the nightly cost on their own sites.
The membership cost of either club is not great (compared to the other costs of the pastime) but if you can manage without using their sites or CLs/CSs (other private sites abound) then the value is debatable (particularly if you already have the facility to pitch at most/all locations you use).
Looking at your use, (and unless a perusal of the other club's locations clearly matches your travels better - the respective websites should reveal) I would probably recommend joining the C&MC if it is to be only one. Once you're used to it and have understood your patterns of use, then you can either join the other as well, to widen the network, or switch to give variety. (Perversely, my own preference, balancing all things, and considering history is the C&CC).
|
|
When I had a caravan, we were invited to weekend camps. Quickly learned these were 'car keys in a pot' job frequented mainly by folk with pampas grass in their gardens. Do they still do that?
|
|
...only reason Z is going for a caravan......
|
>> When I had a caravan, we were invited to weekend camps. Quickly learned these were
>> 'car keys in a pot' job frequented mainly by folk with pampas grass in their
>> gardens. Do they still do that?
Nothing wrong with people wanting to drive each other's cars!
|
|
But not green cars shirley
|
>> When I had a caravan, we were invited to weekend camps. Quickly learned these were
>> 'car keys in a pot' job frequented mainly by folk with pampas grass in their
>> gardens. Do they still do that?
Wow, I didnt know that was part of the scene, not sure I want to swap my dog for another......
|
|
OMG! Not another damn snail dragging it's shell up and down the highways holding everyone up.
|
>> OMG! Not another damn snail dragging it's shell up and down the highways holding everyone
>> up.
Annoyingly its limited to 60 mph by law, apparently the G31 with self levelling adaptive suspension x-drive and stability control will haul anything up to 85% of its weight at well over three figures and be very stable about it. It was described as a "caravan bully"
|
>> Annoyingly its limited to 60 mph by law,
You might want to see how the outfit behaves passing an artic at 60+ before being too cocky about stability control etc...
Berlingo + Explore 304 gives us a gross train weight just shy of 3,500kg which means that in France I can tow at up to 130kph (110 par temps de pluie). I'm not keen to exceed even 110 on dry straight autoroute because of wind/lorry turbulence.
The Nederlanders seem braver but I've seen a few smashed up Dutch 'vans where the tail has ended up wagging the dog.....
Fuel consumption towing also goes mad (<25mpg) towing at 110kph whereas at 90kph it's in mid thirties.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 7 Aug 19 at 21:15
|
...TBH, I'm surprised you've written off the option of a Panel Van Conversion motorhome/campervan.
I get some of the rationale (the fact that you've got a towbar, the potential for a newish caravan to be less of a capital outlay, etc.) but not much of the rest.
I suppose it might be a bit of reverse vicariousness, projecting my choices onto others, but I would have thought that, all factors considered, a 6m or even better a 6.36m Ducato van conversion would be rather more practical for both dog shows and in particular chasing trains.
Much easier to pitch up and break camp than a caravan, and (IMO) more pleasant (and certainly better for access) than towing, even behind a G31. Easier to park than the combination as well.
Certainly some people feel having two separate units makes local travel rather more easy, but if we can't use bikes, walk or use public transport, then it is only a couple minutes (literally) to be ready to drive off. (and our record for pitching up and being out and off down the pub is well under 30 seconds).
BUT, I thought the idea was to use the purchase as a base, on the location you were attending, which seems to negate any/most issues of being able to drive away in the car (since you are already where you want/need to be).
Considerably more payload in a campervan than a (small) caravan, giving quite a bit more scope (for carrying "stuff", and for fettling the van for longer, off-grid stays - solar panels, extra batteries, etc).
AND, in response to the last post, almost every such conversion will be subject to standard car speed limits (whereas the base, white-van man vehicle from which it is converted will be restricted).
In general, insurance for a campervan will be less than a caravan (surprisingly), though paying road tax offsets that.
|
>> .
>> Much easier to pitch up and break camp than a caravan, and (IMO) more pleasant
>> (and certainly better for access) than towing, even behind a G31. Easier to park than
>> the combination as well.
I cant drive to Devon, pitch a home at a dog show, do my dogging, and give the Kubelwagen to Mrs Z to visit her Friends if all we have is a Motorhome.
Its just not flexible enough. Its been considered, it does much of what I need, and is the choice of many at shows, but after weighing it up, the 'van is the better choice.
Oh and a Van and a motorhome is too big and too slow to chase trains. Thats a Travellodge jobbie and always will be
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 7 Aug 19 at 21:27
|
>>
>> I cant drive to Devon, pitch a home at a dog show, do my dogging,
>> and give the Kubelwagen to Mrs Z to visit her Friends if all we have
>> is a Motorhome.
>>
I was rather assuming the G31, and a Ducato conversion (in preference to towing a 'shed')
I have to say that I've never savoured the idea of towing a caravan, but if I had to, it would be one of the small Eribas, already mentioned (or a full-fat, American Airstream, of course).
|
>> I want one of these.
>>
>> decoratio.co/camping-equipment-and-vehicles-30/
Do you think that will squeeze onto my 6 metres of frontage?
|
|
Why would I buy one for your frontage? You'd probably charge me rent.
|
...he thinks you'll want to park it there when you're in town, just to annoy him...
;-)
|
I can't read or hear the word "frontage" now without thinking of Mrs Frontage from Terry Wogan's Janet and John stories.
As you were chaps, as you were.
|
I’ve never had a caravan, never been tempted, but a year ago my bruv bought one to test the water, so to speak. It was an old thing, two berth, no idea of make and model, and he paid £1700. The roof doesn’t leak, apparently it’s immaculate, and both he and his missus often go away for trips between 4 and 7 days duration. I’ve seen photos ( they are in the Peak District at the mo) with awning attached. I assume it doesn’t have a toilet, and they stay at these sites with only a few pitches, which looks like a field to me with few if any facilities.
They weren’t sure if caravanning was for them so spending sub £2k seemed like an astute move. They pay to have it stored somewhere and seem to enjoy the quiet life away from the crowds.
|
|
I've fancied one for a while. But a small one, just a place to eat and sleep. I like those Tabs. Small and stylish and fit in garages and small spaces.
|
Did I say eat and sleep? I meant eat, sleep and crap.
Has to be the 400, it has a bog.
Just in case.
|
>>AND, in response to the last post, almost every such conversion will be subject to standard car speed limits (whereas the base, white-van man vehicle from which it is converted will be restricted).
I was party to a conversation recently which I regret I didn't pay particular attention to. But as I understand it there are moves afoot;
It is going to become much more difficult to have a conversion registered as such and I think they were going to come up with some halfway house.
There is concern that the speed limit should apply to the base vehicle not how it is used.
Also they were saying that the description should match it's appearance not it's usage; i.e. if it looks like a van, then it's a van. Never mind how you are using it.
There may well have been more but that's all I recall.
I wish I'd paid more attention now.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 8 Aug 19 at 16:02
|
Here's my tuppence-worth.
I had two caravans for about 18 months each; they're a lot of hassle and expense to store, maintain, insure and keep secure, prepare, use and tidy up after use. The caravan dealers will sell you a "bare" 'van without a battery, gas bottle, water carrier etc meaning you end up spending another £500 to kit it out before you can use it.
That said Z, for the use to which you want to put it I can't see a problem. We stayed next to a Basecamp in Oban a couple of years back, the ceiling was a bit low for me (I'm 6ft4) compared to other caravans. It had everything you would need though, and I can see the thinking behind buying one.
My Swift caravan was well built but almost all the appliances were replaced under warranty in the first few months; the oven, fridge, cassette toilet and main electric box were all shoddily put together and failed in one way or another after a few days' use.
My Bailey caravan was the opposite; it had very shonky fit and finish but all the bought-in parts were top notch. I understand Bailey are the only UK manufacturer who build the insides first and then pop the body on at the end.
We joined both main clubs; we stayed at both club and non-club sites and had varied experiences all round. At least twice we arrived at seemingly legitimate non-club sites to find them populated by rough-and-ready families with tipper vans and feral children. Other non-club sites though were among the best places we stayed at; I would very much go on personal recommendation as to the sites to use.
The club sites were all similar, very regimented with clean facilities but largely stuck in the 1960s as far as communication and wifi were involved.
After 3 years' caravanning we decided it wasn't for us and have gone back to weekend b&bs, hotels etc as the overall costs aren't that much different and the preparation time for a family break is MUCH shorter.
|
>> Here's my tuppence-worth.
Intersting how we can have different perspectives on what are in fact pretty similar experiences.
I can see what you mean about 'bare' caravans but you can always try and negotiate some of those things into the deal. Gas type, brand and cylinder size etc are user preferences as is leisure battery weight (v) capacity; you'd not want it decided at the factory.
Our Elddis probably costs about £1k/year for storage (£400) insurance, annual service etc. It would fit on the drive at home but the neighbours could object and there's a covenant against even parking one.
Preparation is no big issue for us. The 'van is kept with bed made up and with enough tinned/dried food (paste, rice etc) for a meal and a night's worth of beer/wine. Just bung some clothes in a bag, pick up any perishables into a cool bag and collect 'grab bag' with and odds and sods we've collected and leave from the storage yard. Hitch up and away. It's usually clean enough and tidy enough to go straight back there too.
Needed a deep clean after a fortnight in French heatwave and went back to store today after being at home for a week but if it wasn't for work it'd have been a lot sooner. Wonder why I bothered with an external wash as just five miles to yard and it was splattered with stuff from wet roads.
Our appliances have been mostly OK but the heater thermostat had to be swapped out under warranty as it was turning off prematurely. We also had an issue with shower tray that cracked due to poor design but that was rectified FoC albeit only after I'd quoted consumer law to the supplying dealer.
Interesting you mention Bailey as we're looking at a Unicorn Cadiz as our next van. Interiors are certainly good. I suspect part of the 'flimsiness' feel is the need to keep weight down for matching with cars.
We find the C&MC sites suit us well. While the pitching/parking pullava I referenced above is a strict rule it's based on experience with fires etc. Nothing else seems particularly regimented, no more so than on any site with designated pitches etc. Rules about noise, on site speed, ball games etc are no more prescriptive than on the average French site. What specifically did you find 'regimented' about them?
The wi-fi is, at best, variable according to how near the base masts you are. I suspect a lot of people abuse it to stream films etc and/or have devices connected that are constantly calling home. I'd also be surprised if local infrastructure to the site isn't an issue - doubt there's fibre within 5 miles of say the C&MC Centenary Site in the New Forest. Rural settings also increase the probability that the mobile signal is shonky too.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 12 Aug 19 at 17:55
|
>> It is going to become much more difficult to have a conversion registered as such
>> and I think they were going to come up with some halfway house.
The rules are on the uk gov website:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/registering-a-diy-caravan/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motorhome
Like you I've heard anecdotal evidence, in my case probably in either caravan forums/Facebook groups or club magazines, that it's becoming more difficult. I believe some insurers can be snotty as well.
|
|
Sort of browsing on Autotrader whilst away from home overnight, found an 18 month old converted VW camper for a fraction of the price of a factory made model - you pays your money etc.
|
..it's all gone a bit quiet, so I don't know if you're still looking....
Being prosaically diverted today to a local, large caravan dealer (to buy some toilet fluid before we head off sur le continent), I noted they had a number of new Swift Basecamp 'vans in stock.
Described as "management bulk buy" or some such, they were reputedly being offered at £2K+ off list price. They may not be selling well, and if one is still a target, I'd be inclined to try to drive a hard bargain.
Had a mosey round, and I have to say it wasn't really to my taste. If I was looking at that size, a small Eriba (Troll or similar) as mentioned above would suit me much more (pop-top and all). IMO, rather better thought out, and considerably better finished (ageless design, too).
I was able to side-by-side compare a late model used example at very little more than the Basecamp - no comparison.
|
Its gone quiet pending trip to Caravan and Camper show at NEC in Oct.
As far as your dislike of the basecamp goes, you are showing your chinzy curtains age.....
|
...never liked the chintzy look - which is why I eschew UK built motorhomes.
I also don't need to go chasing my (almost) lost youth sleeping in something that looks like it was designed for the lower-end properties of the YHA.
;-)
|
|
Look, it cant be too comfy and cozy or I will end up with the wife in it for weeks on end, it will be a working ve-hicle. Think site office.
|
|
...aye, though if you want "funky", what I've seen of the T@b is an improvement all round.
|
Its the Caravan and Mobile Home exhibition here in Cottingham next week. This area is the heart of the caravan industry.
Next years 'must have's' on display. I believe at the top end its become a fashion statement. Matching car and caravan and all that bull.
There are only so many layouts a caravan can have. Caravans have basically been the same for years its only the cosmetic stuff that changes. Next seasons colours and decor.
The best time to tap in is at the end of the season when they are all wanting to get rid and buy into next years models.
If there has been some progress its maybe been in construction. Caravans have always been somewhat fragile and not particularly durable. Construction materials being unable to stand the flexing and ravages of time when eventually the damp gets through causing expensive issues.
More durable composite and weather resistant materials are now being utilised.
Like cars the second hand market can produce some gems and save considerable amounts of money.
There is also maintenance, storage and insurance issues + a suitable vehicle to fulfill towing duties which is then used the rest of the year.
Been there done that when the kids were younger and I was glad to see the back of the thing. So much easier to hand a cottage key back.
Ideas of disappearing on short notice weekends never really materialised. Hard core had forward booked all the decent sites well in advance.
Have a yearning for a motor caravan. But having been stuck on the motorbike behind a lot of them bringing Scotland to a standstill a couple of weekends ago I'm not so sure now :S. However it was peak season.
|
British touring caravans were typically made with a wooden frame that was rarely stiff enough. The movement as they swayed inevitably resulted in leaks and in due course rotten framing and floors.
That has changed a bit now.
The Eriba is not typical of anything but Eribas. QC can be patchy but the frame is steel and whilst they can deteriorate, typically they last a long time. But they tend to be light on mod cons. Ours has external water inlet, hot water, a battery and a mover - all are extras. The standard Eriba bathroom is tiny and ours is used for handwashing, toothbrushing and a night-time toilet facility. Hence we tend to use club sites with decent facilities. On a rally site, or I imagine at a dog show, you probably need to be self-contained so it would be a bit like camping.
|
>> Have a yearning for a motor caravan. But having been stuck on the motorbike behind
>> a lot of them bringing Scotland to a standstill a couple of weekends ago I'm
>> not so sure now :S. However it was peak season.
>>
....motorcaravanning is of course (or at least should be) a very different pastime to caravanning. (It's also much more classy and upmarket ;-) )
It really lends itself much better to extended touring and exploring, not stopping anywhere for any great length of time (unless, of course, you find somewhere special). The contrast with traditional caravanning does not suit everyone.
I've had campervans and motorcaravans for over 30 years (since before they were so fashionable and ubiquitous, at least in the UK). They've now become an aspirational purchase for a significant proportion of the population (much more so than caravans, as evidenced by the changing mix we've seen on sites over the years). This, combined with the general increase in tourism in general, and to "honeypot" areas in particular*, has made it more of a challenge to get the best from the lifestyle, but it is still possible.
Our 'van gets probably 100+ nights' use in a good year; lives on the drive so we can be away at the drop of a hat, and supports our preferred holiday practice of heading off into Europe with only an outline plan, seeking scenery, food, wine, walking and cycling. We've been to the North of Norway, Sweden and Finland, and as far South as Venice. West to Ireland and East to the Czech Republic and Slovenia. We never fail to find some delightful and entertaining places, largely unexpected and off the beaten track.
In Scotland, the promotion of the NC500 has led to an overpopulation of motorcaravans, as it has with other forms of tourism (frankly, it was already becoming a pain in season without that promotion - it has now lost it's almost unique (UK-wise) attraction of relative solitude). Of course, many of the 'vans are now from the continent, and motorcaravans, unlike the towed variety, have an active hire market, leading to drivers unfamiliar with a unit of that size. Combine that with the propensity to travel in convoy (notably the Italians and French, but sometimes the Germans as well) and you have a recipe for chaos.
In Europe, the only other place I've encountered so far that suffers similarly from motorcaravans is the Lofoten Islands in Norway. It's not so much the traffic, as the feeling that it would all be a lot more attractive without all these other vehicles (mine is fine, of course ;-) )
If it's any consolation, though I don't particularly dawdle, I do always watch out for motorbikes, and "assist" them past if necessary.
*having had two longish sessions in NZ in the last 18 months, in addition to 3+ weeks in Canada, it is obvious that certain locations are rapidly drowning under the weight of tourism. The popular places in NZ are on the cusp if not already there, Canada, particularly around Banff and Lake Louise is definitely already there. Both the NZ tours were by motorhome, and we found it relatively easy to miss the worst but still see the best sights; Canada we did fly-drive, and were glad we hadn't taken an RV as we did 19 years ago, as the roads were awash, and the sites full.
|
There are quite a few caravans & motorhomes in the street.
One or 2 people are avid users - the majority sit at the side of the house and move very infrequently - a week & it's back or it's lent to a family member for a weekend or so.
Waste on money really except for the few.
One neighbour was selling his - he described it as "nearly new condition" - it was as they had never really been anywhere in it.
£25K new van now adorns the side of the house - last year 2/3 weeks use, 1+ week so far in 2019. How do I know? He makes it his point to say where he is off to months in advance......... and often he cancels for some reason or other.
|
>it will be a working ve-hicle.
Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper/comfier (sic) to strike up a 'relationship' with a motorhome owning poodle fan?
|
|
Yeah. An apricot poodle. Should go well with a green estate car.
|
I now have 4 friends with motorhomes. They certainly gets their money’s worth. Often they’ll finish work, go home, set off just for one night, driving a few miles ( literally) up the Dales for dark skies. One of them is off to Austria soon for 3 weeks, another heading to Switzerland.
I’m just a tiny bit jealous
|
My local MINI dealer has one of these on a Countryman in the showroom. Don’t see why it wouldn’t fit on 5 series roof-rails... ;)
shop.autohome-official.com/en/maggiolina-range/50-autohome-roof-tent-for-mini-countryman.html
|
|
...he could put the dog through its agility test, every night....
|
>> My local MINI dealer has one of these on a Countryman in the showroom.
Well they have to try and improve the looks of the mini somehow I guess.
|
|
For a laugh I asked them how much....almost £2k. And no, they haven’t sold one yet ????
|
|
If one types "mini countryman roof tent" into Google and looks at images, whilst there are loads they are all press photos. Not one single "real life" photo.
|
"My local MINI dealer has one of these on a Countryman....."
I saw one of this type about 40 years ago on top of a minivan on a French municipal campsite. We soon realised that the campers' modus operandi was to arrive on site after the gate-guards had cleared off for the day, then vanish in the early morning before the guards returned - nice cheap way of doing it.
|
What weight limit are on those roofs? Could imagine you are looking at excess of 200kg for two adults and tent?
Also are these cars keyless entry? It’s ok dear, sleep well, I have hidden the keys under the pillow....
|
Apparently it weighs 58kg itself, which is all the weight it'd have when it's being driven.
It says it is suitable for two adults who would obviously only be in it when stationery.
So given that, 200 - 250kg I guess.
I'd think it'd be a bit wobbly though.
|
|
Apparently a 75kg weight limit on the move for an non-countryman mini. I can't find anything for what it will take stationery.
|
|
Want they should have done is call it a Maxi; I seem to recall that one of its ‘features’ was that the rear and front seats could be folded down to make a double bed, of sorts.. Then at least you’re sleeping inside the car, not on the top of it!
|
|
I loved my Maxi. Not quite as much as I loved my MKIII Cortina, but close.
|
It seems to me that BL / Austin Rover had a series of great ideas that were either ahead of their time or poorly executed. Or both.
FWD hatches were the mainstay of the ‘80s. But BL’s was launched in the ‘70s, before it was ready. Maybe even the 60s? Before my time, though my grandad had 2 Maxis...
Rover went mass market premium with the Rover 200/400 series in the late eighties early nineties, badly. But the Audi A3 and BMW compact of the late nineties paved the way for the ubiquitous German mass market domination of today.
In the late nineties they launched the Freelander (though to be fair, I think LR was owned by Ford at that point). The rest of the world went small SUV mad in the early/mid noughties... Also in the late nineties they went retro with the 75 and, and if you believe some stories, their design for what became the BMW MINI just before the rest of the world went retro mad with the fiat 500, the VW Beetle etc
Also in the early noughties, just before going bust they launched the streetwise - a kind of chunky slightly jacked up 200 that looked a bit off roader like. Since then VW have done the same with the Polo, Audi with the A4 and A6, MB with the E Class, Volvo with some kind of estate... And super mini based SUVs are everywhere...
What might have been... ;)
|
BL et al had two problems;
Industrial relations
Quality Control
There wasn't much wrong with their ideas.
I'm supposed to be good at that stuff, and I'd have loved to have had a go at fixing it. But it was before my time. Probably just as well, I'm not sure that lot was fixable.
Their workforce may have finally sent it down the plug hole but it was started on that path long before by it's management.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 29 Aug 19 at 00:04
|
>> I loved my Maxi. Not quite as much as I loved my MKIII Cortina, but
>> close.
>>
We did once sleep on an airbed in the back of a Cprtina Mk4 estate on the journey to Devon/Cornwall
|
"I loved my Maxi"
I loved my girlfriend's dad's Maxi.
|
I had a Maxi. Probably the most competitive car I ever had. OK, I used to go round corners thinking I'd change down to third, try to change down to third, sod it, drop into to second after the corner, and that had the 'improved' rod gear-change on the 1750.
It won awards at grass auto-tests (complete with kiddiseats bouncing around in the back), it got a best in class at a trial and won an economy run.
It towed a caravan and after I fitted rear spring assisters, the resulting stiffening of the back end improved the 'turn-in' no end. Taught me a lot about suspension!
It was the right car at the time, with a couple of kids. It followed a Vitesse and Cortina GT. It took them, a dog and a microwave oven one Christmas to an ailing MILs. Stopped by the BIBs they wouldn't believe SWMBO was ten months pregnant, despite the obvious evidence!
|
...
>> It towed a caravan and after I fitted rear spring assisters, the resulting stiffening of
>> the back end improved the 'turn-in' no end. Taught me a lot about suspension!
>> ...
Blimey! How did you fit spring assisters to a car with Hydrolastic/Hydragas suspension?
|
>>Blimey! How did you fit spring assisters to a car with Hydrolastic/Hydragas suspension?
The rear bumpstops were replaced with longer, sort of figure of eight rubber stops. They were easily available at the time, but now seem to be discontinued. An expensive version were Auto-Ballans, which were a thick walled, inflatable rubber bumpstop. They could be inflated to a pressure to suit the need.
|
As posted earlier, my bruv bought a cheap caravan a year or so ago to test the waters. He’s just sold it and bought a 2007 two berth motorhome.
Today he’s sent me a message to ask my friends with caravans ( of which I have none) want to buy a ‘ Westfield 250 inflatable with annex’ 18 months old @ £350.
So if anyone has a caravan....I assume it’s a tent you fix to the side of a caravan for use after a domestic with the other half. But could be wrong.
|
An inflatable Westfield?
Marvellous!
;-)
|
Ewe Numpty
I thought it was a pop up shopping centre
|
>> The rear bumpstops were replaced with longer, sort of figure of eight rubber stops.
OK, I've heard of Auto-Ballans which I thought were fitted in pairs inside a coil spring but replacing bump-stops is new to me. Thanks for clarifying.
|
I want a Lunar Delta Ti. Transverse/island bed is a must.
Gonna need a bigger car to tow it. It's the only thing that'll get me in to an SUV, needing to tow a caravan.
|
>> I want a Lunar Delta Ti. Transverse/island bed is a must.
We're looking at bigger van than current Xplore 304 but with twin beds. Bailey Unicorn Cadiz fits bill well. There was a suitable Lunar too but I'm just a bit chary of brand at present as they've just been rescued from administration.
Too heavy for Berlingo even without it's added issue where max payload & towing at 1300kg limit bust the Gross Train Weight max. Not really thought about car - possibly a Skoda Karoq or equivalent Seat. Also need to look at Peugeot 5008 and possibly some bigger Fords. Will probably be an SUV/MPV as Mrs B finds herself sitting on top of the steering wheel in conventional estate cars.
|
|
We passed a convoy of French 3.14keys tugging sheds on the autoroutes this summer, must have been 50 of them. They all had really swish looking vans from brands I'd never heard of. One massive twin axle Tabbert thing was being dragged by a Berlingo, which struck me as pretty stupid.
|
>>3.14keys
Oh very good. But I still prefer DAYlikeys.
|
Why wary of the brand, Brompters? Can independents not do repairs/maintenance/servicing etc?
What would you recommend for a twin axle, island bed shed?
|
>> Why wary of the brand, Brompters? Can independents not do repairs/maintenance/servicing etc?
I was thinking of warranty issues.
>> What would you recommend for a twin axle, island bed shed?
No idea. Kids have flown the nest and I cannot understand retired couples with a twin axle jobbie the size of Wales. Even if there were grandchildren......
We looked at island beds but decided the twin set up was better.
We need to be making makeuseof existing one though before committing to spending £30k+ on new 'van and car.
|
Ah, I'm thinking second hand when the time comes, so wasn't considering warranties.
My plan is to be on mainland Europe for the majority of the year with a caravan, moving on every month or two. With that in mind, I'd be wanting a larger one with dedicated bedroom, a bathroom at the end beyond the bedroom, and a permanent living/dining/kitchen area. This is retirement stuff for me, I'd not get a caravan for short holidays whilst still in work.
Can't imagine going back to sleeping in a single bed.
|
Still thinking Basecamp, but just seen this
www.go-barefoot.co.uk/
Now that would look fab clinging onto the rear of the Beemer, but at 27k????
|
One of those kept at same storage site as my Elddis. Nice looking 'van but truly tiny.
There's a cheaper version - the Barefoot Space - at around £17k that would probably do what you want.
|
>> There's a cheaper version - the Barefoot Space - at around £17k that would probably
>> do what you want.
No loo/shower. Thats a noo noo.
|
"Thats a noo noo."
No no no.
That's a noo noo
tinyurl.com/y487zudl
|
|
It can't be you. You haven't got that much hair.
|
I'm hearing of a problem with caravan axles failing. It seems the 'van manufacturer is fitting a body to the axle that loads the axle to it's maximum recommended. The 'van owner then puts all their junk inside (think awning etc.) that overloads the axle.
It sounds like some sort of rubber block, indespension type unit's involved.
Anyone else heard anything?
|
I would expect there to be odd problem with 'vans that have been overloaded. Casual observation on sites suggests than people ram stuff into their 'vans and are unaware of, or careless about, max payload.
On some models the payload is very small, around 150kg. Add a leisure battery and motor mover and there's not a lot left for 'stuff'.
We've been very careful about this, everything that goes in the 'van was weighed and we did a spreadsheet including allowance for the battery and mover. Extra stuff creeps in over time but we've enough headroom.
Story here from one user:
worldwidewalkies.blog/2018/02/10/bailey-alko-axle-problem/
That was a Bailey but I doubt they're only brand affected. OTOH I've not seen more than one report of wheel cover damage in Elddis groups I follow.
|
>> I'm hearing of a problem with caravan axles failing. It seems the 'van manufacturer is
>> fitting a body to the axle that loads the axle to it's maximum recommended.
Van are quoted in MRO - Mass in running order - The total weight of the van when it leaves the facotry
MTPLM Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass which is the total weight the axles will support,
The difference is your payload, - stuff you can put in or add to the van,
The basecamp is
MTPLM 1027kg
MRO 916kg
Total User Payload 111kg
Out of that comes the leisure battery . - say 20kg, motor mover if you fit one ( i would) 25kg
leaves you 66kg for "stuff" . As bromp says, to save yourself a trip to the public weigh-bridge every time out, you spreadsheet it all.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 30 Sep 19 at 14:00
|
>>leaves you 66kg for "stuff"
That's really not very much at all.
Little more than the girls and I carry when we fly. And we're not carrying a ton of household goods, food and accessories.
|
>> >>leaves you 66kg for "stuff"
>>
>> That's really not very much at all.
>>
>> Little more than the girls and I carry when we fly. And we're not carrying
>> a ton of household goods, food and accessories.
Very true and its much discussed on the caravan forums, most of whom scoff at such a poor allowance.
However they forget its a lightweight van, built for a couples weekend away type stuff* so not for two weeks for a family. Plus unlike flying, you can load stuff in the car. For me, with a big beemer estate, two peeps and dog at most for a week max, it would work. Certainly for me and dog on a muddy field for a weekend its ample.
*I know of a couple of basecamps on extended tours of europe, to me, thats what a motorhome is for.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 30 Sep 19 at 14:14
|
>> Still thinking Basecamp, but just seen this
>>
>> www.go-barefoot.co.uk/
>>
>> Now that would look fab clinging onto the rear of the Beemer, but at 27k????
>>
Looks like it has a camper van type layout inside. But at that price you'd have to seriously want one over a normal caravan.
|
So far, on the shortlist for consideration is the
Swift Base Camp
Bailey Discovery D4-2
Adria Action
|
I have, not very seriously, but in the passing so to speak, thought that a Swift Base Camp might enhance my mountain biking trips.
Can't quite do it though. But a Scooby bus...could just about make it onto my shopping list.
I know a couple of people with them. VW Transporters with lots of boy's toys in.
|
Have a look round on the web at a Toyota Alphard.
Some good conversions around,
|
....I suspect the T@b fails slightly in the practicality stakes, otherwise it is a competitor.
If you're prepared to go a bit bigger, the Knaus Sport and Fun is playing in the same space (well, not really, 'cos it's bigger) and has some really flexible storage options for outdoor stuff. In addition, the extra space means you can leave the bed permanently made up, and still have seating and a table. Believe you me, that is quite an advantage after long active days (or even for a daytime snooze).
|
Don't think I could go for an Alphard. Sounds too much like it could do with a dose of Viagra doesn't it?
;-)
|
Discounted T@B and the Knaus sport and fun, for various reasons. & My limit is 5.5 metres.
As for bed, yes for a week 2 up Bedtime would be a pain. For a weekend with the dog in a field its not an issue, in the basecamp for example, one single side bed stays down with a throw over it, the other side is up for space.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 30 Sep 19 at 16:33
|
In 2015 I took a friends wife and her Queensland Heeler on the TRT ( Tahoe Tim Trail). Her dog loved his first camping trip ! Friends wife and I had our own lightweight tents, but the funniest bit was that hers was a double skin tent, and we found out that by only erecting the mesh inner, her dog stayed awake for hours stargazing.
Dog was about 2yo at the time, so strong enough to carry its own food to last 3 days until we reached our remote supply points. 18 days under silnylon ( canvas is sooo outdated) and we had a ball. Although Rover didn’t.
I’m still tempted by a motorhome in the next few years....Cape Finisterre to the High Tatras is on my to do list before I croak.
|
>> In 2015 I took a friends wife and her Queensland Heeler on the TRT (
>> Tahoe Tim Trail).
Australian Cattle Dogs are becoming quite popular in competitive obedience and working trials, similarly Kelpies.
|
>I’m still tempted by a motorhome in the next few years....
>Cape Finisterre to the High Tatras is on my to do list before I croak.
A few years ago after a friend's wife lost her battle with cancer he teamed up with another friend and bought an ex-US military 6x6 troop carrier and converted it to a motorhome complete with hand controls because our other friend was disabled. Together they did the full length of the Pan-American highway.
No point putting that on my bucket list I'm afraid.
|
|
That looks like the back of a bus - I can see why you're attracted to it ;>)
|
Spotted just the thing today.
You'd be very popular at your dogging meets.
ibb.co/MDF4Q6c
;-)
|
Right!
Back from the caravan and camper show. Checked out the Knaus Sport & Fun, the Bailey Discovery D42, The T@B and the Adria Action, took the missus. The winner is the Basecamp, all the others have some form of layout issue.
So, I.ll be booking myself a towing course, and then buying a 2019 model basecamp.
I had pre booked a Caravan Driving experience, C/O Jeep. I chose a bright orange Wrangler Rubicon, with a
4 berth Bailey Pursuit chained on the back, my tutor was an ex female police driver. Actually went out on the M42 with the thing. My god that Jeep is an agricultural thing, List price is nearly 50K? It's rubbish.
|
>> ..... my tutor was an ex female police driver.
>>
.......was that an ex-female police driver, or a female ex-police driver?
Both potentially intimidating, but one more than the other ;-)
>>and then buying a 2019 model basecamp.
...haggle. Currently listed 10% + off list with no negotiation.
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Tue 15 Oct 19 at 19:22
|
Still female, so the later.
Aware of deals to be done, quite a few will be hitting the second hand market as quite a few will be upgrading to the 2020 SE.
I am booking a two day caravan course for march, so will get a van in April.
|
>My god that Jeep is an agricultural thing, List price is nearly 50K? It's rubbish.
You don't buy a Jeep Wrangler for towing your shell up and down the M42. You buy it for dragging bogged down BMWs out of muddy fields. Horses for Courses.
|
|
Well I'd leave it in the field after it did.
|
>> ......You buy it for dragging bogged down BMWs out of muddy fields.
>>
....bogged down by trying to tow a caravan through said muddy field.....?
|
>> Right!
>>
>> Back from the caravan and camper show. Checked out the Knaus Sport & Fun, the
>> Bailey Discovery D42, The T@B and the Adria Action, took the missus. The winner is
>> the Basecamp, all the others have some form of layout issue.
Just a thought but did you mention this as having Whale blown air heating from a unit housed under the floor?
Our Xplore has this and other users report it as problematic when 'off grid' because the blower fan is heavy on battery. Can't speak from experience as never been off a mains hook up except during summer in France.
|
|
Yes it does have whale blown air, but no Basecamp users have reported an issue, because the Basecamp is built for wild caravaning and is uber insulated, plus its small, and you fit a large enough battery, which combined with the hefty 100 watt solar panel charging it during the day its fine
|
|
Saw a Base Camp in the real word yesterday. Looks like a sharp bit of kit in the metal (GRP or whatever) - not Zero unless he's chopped the Beemer in for a Dacia.
|
I parked next to a brown Dacia Duster yesterday, and found myself rather admiring it.
Quite worrying really. What comes next? Polo shirts with horizontal pastel stripes? Beige Cotton blouson jackets? Elastic waisted trousers? Beany hats? Velcro fastening shoes? Incontinence? Erectile disfunction? Taking an interest in bowls? Is this a portent of the future?
:-(
|
>> I parked next to a brown Dacia Duster yesterday, and found myself rather admiring it.
>>
>> Quite worrying really. What comes next? Polo shirts with horizontal pastel stripes? Beige Cotton blouson
>> jackets? Elastic waisted trousers? Beany hats? Velcro fastening shoes?
>>>> But, in the end, it's not about what you're wearing,
>>Incontinence? Erectile disfunction? Taking an interest in bowls?
>>>it's what you say or do while wearing it !
>>Is this a portent of the future?
Clearly
|
>>Clearly
Oh dear !
What's it like then? When does it all kick in? How long have I got?
;-)
|
>> >>Clearly
>>
>> Oh dear !
>>
>> What's it like then? When does it all kick in? How long have I got?
>>
>>
>> ;-)
>>brown Dacia Duster yesterday, and found myself rather admiring it.
You've arrived, certainly got there well ahead of me.
|
Taking an interest
>> in bowls? Is this a portent of the future?
>>
>> :-(
>>
First time I read that as 'an interest in bowels' pretty niche hobby there. As you were.
|
>>
>> First time I read that as 'an interest in bowels' pretty niche hobby there.
You wait till you get of an age, Bowels figure highly. You even get an insider view.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 17 Jul 21 at 11:01
|
Not me no, I know who it is - a member of the club. There are 8 scuttling around Wales at the mo, 5 in Scotland, quite a few in the lakes.
|
Why do you moderator types allow these spieling mistakes to continue for 128 replies?
Two 'n's in caravanning!
Last edited by: Duncan on Sat 17 Jul 21 at 11:06
|
>> Why do you moderator types allow these spieling mistakes to continue for 128 replies?
Because they have a life, Try it.
|
Try reading "The Caravaners" by Elizabeth von Arnim. 350 pages with "The Caravaners" on each page.
Variations in speling help the language evolve, innit?
|
We're taking the 'van away for Christmas. Six nights on a C&MH site then one on daughter's in law's drive as they're hosting a family get together.
Need it at home for a few days prep so went up to the storage yard yesterday to collect it. Turned out that from Monday 12/12 until early Jan they're open by appointment only. Appointment made for this morning.
Berlingo and garden weather station agree that at 09:30 it was -5. Got defrosted with surprisingly little effort except that aerosol de-icer was reluctant to leave the can which was cold enough to risk frostbite!. Remember why I usually have a trigger pack but temperatures here are rarely low enough to need more than tepid water to shift ice.
Got to the yard - first there since Monday's snow - and got into the 'van with no problem. Hitchlock too some jiggling with to free off as did the hitch itself. Major problem though was that the nose compartment door was frozen solidly shut. Motor mover control, drill fitting to retract steadies and the stand by manual crank for the steadies all in the nose.
Managed to cobble a device for the steadies with the car's wheelbrace and hitch up manually and solo - a while since I did that. The bayonet latch on the 13 pin electric connection was also frozen but eased with a bit of handling.
Got 'van home and managed to get it onto the drive - I'm actually beginning to get the hang of reversing the outfit. Reversed process to lower steadies.
Next problem was that the battery box where the mains hook up resides was also frozen solid. Mrs B's hairdryer sorted the lock and allowed the box to be prised open..
MAx/min thermometer in 'van says min temperature was -8, we've observed before that the storage yard is a frost pocket. Heating's been on for about 2 hours and internal temperature is up to 14. Will get it up to 18/19 and then set it on the thermostat.
Everything inside is completely cold soaked including the cans/bottles of food that live in there so we're OK for late arrivals etc. Olive oil is solid. Hopefully it'll all warm up and dry out by the weekend...
|
>> MAx/min thermometer in 'van says min temperature was -8,
Mine is on the front drive, hooked to mains, with the heating set to frost mode. Had a few warnings to my phone from the van telematics system the interior got to as low as 3c (the warning trigger) but downloading the data says thats as low as it got.
|
..other than completely draining down between uses, I don't do anything out of the ordinary to my motorhome in winter.
Most of the lockers are well-ventilated naturally, otherwise I might crack the doors open to ensure they remain "aired".
I generally don't bother pre-heating it when we go away, having the advantage of the vehicle heater doing that (unlike a caravan), but if I need to, the 6kW "residential" heating available would make short shrift of the cold (and it's authorised for use on the move, despite being gas-fuelled).
|
>> ..other than completely draining down between uses,
I completely drain down and before we leave the site we are at, I leave the drain cock open so jiggling on the way home gets more out. Before winter I get the tyre inflator on the water pick-up pipe and blow any remaining water through. Never stops sounding "gurgly" tho.
|
|
I’d think anything that had its drain cock left open and jiggled in this weather would be well within its rights to gurgle.
|
>> I’d think anything that had its drain cock left open and jiggled in this weather
>> would be well within its rights to gurgle.
>>
...or indeed, in any weather....
|
...I just let gravity do its work (with all the taps open at halfway between hot and cold). Fresh water is only ever drained at home, in case we decide we need some "in transit".
In 30+ years of motorhoming, and despite some very low temperatures, I've only had one mishap. I once forgot to remove and drain the water filter cartridge - it retains water despite any drain-down - it resulted in the plastic/composite filter casing disintegrating (luckily, as they aren't cheap, it was due the annual replacement, and I had one to hand). I think it was -11 that night.
|
|
Do you lot use propane or butane? A colleague was stranded in the Dales one Easter when it snowed. He had no heating as the butane wouldn't evaporate in the low temperature.
|
...Propane. Though as I have refillable bottles in reality it's whatever was in the LPG (Autogas) pump when I filled ;-).
It's always 100% propane in the UK. Abroad it varies, and may be seasonal, as a Propane/Butane mix with a higher proportion of Propane.
|
Primary supply is Propane, either Calor in Lite cylinders or Flo Gas Gaslight.
Back up is a Camping Gaz 907 cylinder which is Butane and a legacy from camping in France when the kids were kids. Advantage is it's easily replaceable sur le Continent. Disadvantage is it's Butane and not best in todays temperatures.
The 907 cylinder always worked fine for the stove in France even on cold mornings. We had problems with Camping Gaz, even in a Propane mix, in C206 and other small cylinders on cool nights and early mornings at altitude in midsummer in France. They cannot absorb heat fast enough to match the cooling effect as the gas evaporates.
Will make sure I've ample Propane for the Xmas break; off to Homebase for a new Gaslight cylinder on Saturday.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 14 Dec 22 at 21:11
|
>> Do you lot use propane or butane? A colleague was stranded in the Dales one
>> Easter when it snowed. He had no heating as the butane wouldn't evaporate in the
>> low temperature.
Propane, the tanks are in an unheated locker, and butane doesn't like anything under about 8c and refuses to be gas at freezing or lower
|
Even propane which boils at -42 degrees C can be problematic if the rate of use is high. A few years ago we ran a Winter Ball in a m****** big tent. We heated the tent with industrial space heaters. After an hour or two the big propane bottles were thick with ice and the heaters producing very little heat. Presumably the evaporation had chilled the gas to the boiling point.
That said I have never had a problem with propane when caravanning in winter, using it to power a little gas heater.
Pure butane boils at -1 degree C. We used to used it for making hot mulled wine at our annual village Christmas event. We used to keep the bottle in a warm place beforehand and then insulate it, which kept it going long enough provided it was fullish.
Patio gas appears to be a blend of propane and butane. We have been using it for several years for barbecues at events, including bonfire night. However it is now stupidly expensive and costs significantly more than propane, which I assume is just the branding. 13Kg is now £68 for a refill locally. I no longer maintain the equipment but I am going to suggest we get some propane regulators (similar pressure but with a generic connector) and go on to propane.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 15 Dec 22 at 13:47
|
>> Even propane which boils at -42 degrees C can be problematic if the rate of
>> use is high. A few years ago we ran a Winter Ball in a m******
>> big tent. We heated the tent with industrial space heaters. After an hour or two
>> the big propane bottles were thick with ice and the heaters producing very little heat.
>> Presumably the evaporation had chilled the gas to the boiling point.
I'm not surprised. The evaporation of the gas has a cooling effect and the cylinder needs to be able to absorb heat effectively enough to counter that.
We use Camping Gaz, originally in C206 cartridges later the CV resealing variety for a lamp in the tent and, now, in the caravan awning. The C206 and smaller CV cylinders, even in moderate temperatures - evening in S of France but at altitude -, cool to the point that the light looses brightness. The bigger CV470 cylinders cope better.
|
Family relative collects their new Go Pod caravan today from Southport.
He initially bought an old caravan a few years ago to testvtgexwater, then replaced it with a newer one.
Then ditched the caravan, bought, and replaced two motorhomes in quick succession, and now back to a caravan.
I’ve no idea which model it is, but they are tiny things...probably suit me in summer with an awning attached, but a bit chilly in winter so you’d be inside the main body of the Go Pod.
No doubt I’ll see it soon...I’ll have a look around it out of curiosity.
I still prefer to rent in Spain during our cooler months in the U.K.
|
|
Kitchen and bog in a go pod is an issue. It was considered, then dismissed as an option when I was first looking
|
>> Kitchen and bog in a go pod is an issue. It was considered, then dismissed
>> as an option when I was first looking
Wouldn't swap my Xplore 304 for a Go Pod while there are two of us.
If were left to caravan solo the ability, at least in theory, to tow it with the Fabia or another small hatch/estate might be a plus.
|
>> Wouldn't swap my Xplore 304 for a Go Pod while there are two of us.
>>
If it were just me, the Go-pod might have done, but two dogs and me in one (let alone the wife)? Nope.
>> If were left to caravan solo the ability, at least in theory, to tow it
>> with the Fabia or another small hatch/estate might be a plus.
I know one person who tows a Basecamp with a Fiat 500, and another who tows a BC with a Mini (the BMW one) tho I always understood you couldnt fit a towbar on a mini.
|
>> Kitchen and bog in a go pod is an issue. It was considered, then dismissed
>> as an option when I was first looking
>>
Care to elaborate?
As someone who’s never owned a caravan, I’m curious as to what specific deal breakers are on tiny ‘vans. I’d have thought a tiny hob, and pooing in a bucket outside were givens on a thing this small.
Last edited by: legacylad on Fri 20 Jan 23 at 09:08
|
>> Care to elaborate?
>> As someone who’s never owned a caravan, I’m curious as to what specific deal breakers
>> are on tiny ‘vans. I’d have thought a tiny hob, and pooing in a bucket
>> outside were givens on a thing this small.
The toilet appears to be a 'portapotti':
www.thetford-europe.com/gb/products/toilets/portable-toilets
LArger 'vans, like my Explore, have a more sophisticated arrangement with a flush tank and underfloor waste cassette. Either set up requires emptying every 24-48 hours and recharging with waste tank fluid. Fluid is available in multiple brands/types and no longer pongs of formaldehyde.
While I'd prefer my current set up, given the loo is very rarely indeed used for anything more that a pee in the night, I'd not regard the Go Pod's loo as a deal breaker.
Cooking wise, we use the oven quite a bit for tray baked veg or potatoes but without one we'd manage with gas rings if lightweight for towing was a requisite.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 20 Jan 23 at 09:23
|
>> I still prefer to rent in Spain during our cooler months in the U.K.
>>
...there are some benefits of staying in the UK, though.
Been attempting to arrange a meet with the B-i-L for months (best part of a year actually). With settled (but perishing) weather we set off for Henley in the motorhome and had an afternoon with him (plan was to walk along the Thames "towpath"", but as that was well underwater an amble around town had to suffice).
Yesterday and today have been spent on two twelve mile walking in the chilly Chilterns - very sunny but very cold (my favourite weather for walking). A very enjoyable session.
I was tempted to have another day tomorrow, but the motorhome threw a wobbly on the way down. The airbag light is on. I have the software to diagnose and the airbag ECU is borked. It's a very common problem on this vintage of Ducato and not unexpected as it had a little niggle some weeks ago.
Replacements need coding to the vehicle, and at c£250 aren't cheap. (I have the software to do the coding however). There's a thriving independent trade in "reflashing" failed ones, though, at around £60, and no coding required as it's the same unit. 3 day turnaround by post, so I'll try that first.
Just have to make sure I don't crash on the way home now
|
>> I was tempted to have another day tomorrow, but the motorhome threw a wobbly on
>> the way down. The airbag light is on. I have the software to diagnose and
>> the airbag ECU is borked. It's a very common problem on this vintage of Ducato
>> and not unexpected as it had a little niggle some weeks ago.
Clock spring? (or wiping track things)?
|
.. it's the ECU itself. Internal data corruption (I can read the code from the ECU with laptop and dealer-level software).
The general feeling is that these failures are due to voltage spikes (more prevalent in motorhomes due to the add-on electrical systems), and it is very common.
The reality is that the ECUs used were probably under-specced and over-prone to failure. Fiat, under mild pressure, will generally replace the unit out of warranty, but at the age of my van it would (regardless of my own code-read) require me to pay a Fiat "Professional" dealer for official diagnosis to start the process (c£100), and Fiat providing the part free for the dealer to fit and code at my cost (£100+).
Given that I wouldn't trust any of the 4 nearest dealers to work on the vehicle, that I can probably get the part successfully reflashed at £60 (or source a brand new, and probably updated replacement at £250), and that I have the ability to do all the work myself, that's what I'm doing. The ECU is readily accessible next to the vehicle battery under the cab floor so it's fiddly rather than difficult.
|
...well, the ECU is successfully removed without blowing the airbags. :-)
Fiddly job as expected as there is some trim to remove, and working in a Ducato cab at floor level is a job for a double-jointed dwarf (something I fail in both respects).
Having a second 12v system which interacts with the main vehicle battery doesn't help either, as it is best to isolate that as well (and the solar panel).
It's b***** cold here as well (-5 earlier).
All done, and both 12v systems reconnected (I'm not putting the ignition on, though ;-) )
Just need to send the unit off on Monday, and hope it can be successfully reinstated, installation being broadly the reverse of what I've done so far.
|
Try booking.com.
They put you in touch with things called “hotels”. Just brilliant things, you turn up, it’s usually warm and dry and if something goes wrong, you don’t have to fix it yourself.
;-)
|
|
...I do so hope you re-discover your sense of adventure before you retire...
|
...ECU sent off Monday as above. Received back this morning, flashed and "polished" (a bit of corrosion on PCB). Included a report on communication with other modules (or rather, fault codes indicating failure to communicate with other modules, since it was presumably tested in isolation, but it proved it was attempting all it's prescribed "talking").
Re-installed. Additional earth strap added as per a technical bulletin someone had referenced. All temporary/transient codes across all the 'van's ECUs deleted, and job, for now, looks a good 'un.
Patently, much depends on whether there is a recurrence, and at what horizon, but for £60 plus my postage out, it's worth a punt. (Main dealer quotes appear to be in the £450 to £750 range).
Re-installing was slightly easier than removal (since I now knew a bit more). One minor issue was that, though I informed my tracker company of battery isolation when I removed it, I forgot to do so when re-installing.
I got a 'phone call less than a minute after removing the battery earth connection, which was embarrassing and reassuring in equal measure.
|
>> I got a 'phone call less than a minute after removing the battery earth connection,
>> which was embarrassing and reassuring in equal measure.
Nearly as bad as getting the call on your mobile 10 minutes after leaving home because you didnt disarm the tracker......
|
|
Interesting video on YT Petrol Ped where he tested the effect on EV range of towing a caravan. Using a top of the range BMW iX (my god they are hideous!) and towing a large wide heavy twin axle caravan the effect was to halve the range to about 150 miles - which is not much really if you’re travelling say in Europe. But almost more important was the fact that to recharge on the road almost all chargers would require you to unhook the caravan and temporarily park it somewhere in order to get access to charge the car without blocking the area around the charger. Great!
|
>> the range to about 150 miles - which is not much really
Wouldn't have got me to half of my caravan destinations last year.
>> road almost all chargers would require you to unhook the caravan and temporarily park it
>> somewhere
Where it gets nicked.
The rush to electric vehicles is an almighty crap storm.
|
>> Where it gets nicked.
Even if the hitch and wheel locks are on?
|
Living a couple of miles south of Knight Stainforth caravan park, that reminds me the main caravan season is just around the corner.
Always a joy to watch caravans meeting head on whilst navigating the often narrow single track road...fortunately the footpath runs through the adjacent fields, or alongside the river.
Add in a mix of tractors, slurry trailers and huge camper vans....
|
|
Caravan got nicked at Rownham services under these exact same circumstances, it had hitch and wheel locks. They turned up in a Motorway Maintenance marked van, wearing full hi viz, had the security bits off in 4 minutes with industrial grinders.
|
|
That’s awful, as indeed is any crime, but there is a small part of me that slightly approves of any action that discourages and inconveniences the use of caravans. ;-)
|
|
Surely the right to create rolling roadblocks is a fundamental human right. Must be enshrined in some sort of treaty?
|
I have the same shiver of satisfaction when I see spoked wheels poking out the canal............
|
|
Currently, its more hot air than an exploding airbag
|
|
Could be launched mid year. If it does arrive it will be a bit of a beast. Don’t think it will be available in Europe though. Somewhat surprisingly huge electric pickup trucks are becoming popular in the US.
|
>> Caravan got nicked at Rownham services under these exact same circumstances, it had hitch and
>> wheel locks. They turned up in a Motorway Maintenance marked van, wearing full hi viz,
>> had the security bits off in 4 minutes with industrial grinders.
What type/size of caravan I wonder.
The place where ours is stored had a few go AWOL, towed off by the shortest route over fields.
Without exception they were double axle jobbies of the type one might live in.....
|
|
Serious question...if you own an expensive caravan, or even more so with a motor home, surely you’d fit a tracker ?
|
Away for the weekend at one of our regular places - CAMC Wyatts Covert.
Weather brill on Saturday - lovely trip to Hampton Court and Bushy Park. Discovered that my 40yo memory of west London was good enough to feel my way onto the A312 and to the Polish War Memorial with minimal use of maps.
Yesterday was a lesson in RTFM. After a breakfast in the Crew Room at Denham Aerodrome we set off to visit Lord Nuffield's place near Henley which is in the care of the National Trust. Failed to read the book properly; closed for the winter. Benjy Dizzy's place was back up but we spent the best part of 2 hours getting there at a time of year when daylight is at a premium. Too gloomy inside for Mrs B so I was left to my own devices.
The bit about the house's role in the war is fascinating though being old enough to have worked in offices in the eighties with 40yo furniture brings it to life in a way I'm not sure I appreciate...
Anyway on to the B ****** bit. Got off site just before midday and back where the 'van is stored at one. Drove in, through the 'van washing shed they've put over the access to the yard focussed on the flooding pooling beyond and failed to notice the roller door at (say) 7' while 'van is (say) 7' 6'". Front plastic cracked on both sides and all 3 skylights skimmed off.
Do you have 'new for old insurance'...
No 'cos the caravan's too old.
And there's damage to the roller door too.
As I've said before with bikes on the roof there's those who've forgotten height and those yet to do so.....
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 13 Nov 23 at 17:44
|
|
b*****, sounds expensive. Reminds me of a tale of the signalman who accidently routed a reverse movement through the carriage washer. Trouble is 60 tons of Merchant Navy steam loco won't go through a carriage washer. The loco won, and not much carriage washing was possible for some time0
|
>> b*****, sounds expensive.
Still waiting for a quote or quotes. Boss of the dealership where we store it is on the case but he doesn't work weekends so I'll need to catch him on Monday.
His son thinks that if we want to replace the cracked front panel the fact it's of Elddis 'Solid' construction means it'll need to go back to the factory at which point we're potentially bumping its £8k market value.
However he thinks there may be other patch/plastic weld type options.
We've been looking at other 'van options since before the pandemic but end with something a lot bigger than the Xplore 304 or a 2 berth. However Mrs B and I just don't keep the same hours and space to sit with a laptop or book while the bed is in use is a red line.
We looked at the 'van show in October but very few fit the bill. Some Eribas do but they're silly expensive and heavy.
POssibly one from the Swift range Zero has or something else funky from a foreign manufacturer?
|
|
Presume it's covered by insurance? But I suppose you're saying they may write it off.
|
>> Presume it's covered by insurance? But I suppose you're saying they may write it off.
Yes, that exactly.
|
|
Check out the Adria Action, or the Knaus sport and fun. The Basecamp 3/4 offers a dinette seat/ table while the bed is set up. The Basecamp two configures into two good size single beds, or one and a bench seat, which is the config I use flying solo at dog shows/training camps. The Basecamp excells at being off grid.
|
Just read all this thread, it's a real diary of my move to get a shed, what I needed, and how I thought it might work out.
Well I have done 8k miles in the BC2, hauled it all over the country, and done on average about 40 nights away per annum. Mrs Z loves it as a holiday choice and it's been a passport to dog shows and training everywhere.
The BC has worked perfectly on and off grid, providing a cosy comfy practical environment. Part of its success it's the fact it's on the drive, can be prepped packed and loaded in 48 hours for an easy escape.
All in all, it was the right choice, at the right time.
|
Pah. I can be prepped, packed and my Jet2 10kg loaded within 30 minutes. Less probably :-)
Talking of caravans, my bruv part ex’d his Pod thing ( with lots of awnings and separate toilet tent which reminded me of Scout camps) for a Discovery D4-2.
Had the Pod less than a year and only a few short outings in it...even fitted a tow bar to wifeys Fiat 500. Photos I’ve seen are it’s marginally bigger with an onboard bog. Another large awning but caravanning is not for me...I’ll either wild camp in my Hilleberg Akto or rent various properties in warmer climes.
Last edited by: legacylad on Sat 18 Nov 23 at 22:09
|
|
Oouch!! Replacing the front of a caravan is a big job. Peeling bike the awning rails, sides and roof to release all the fastenings.
|
|
Yeah, it's gonna be a write off
|
I'd suspect that too.
If so then I'll explore the possibility of a patch up type repair which was offered as an alternative. It's nearly 10 years old so if we can get a couple more years from it that'll be good.
Only issue, and what led us to look as alternatives, is the transverse bed meaning one of us clambering over the other when getting up for wee in the night.
|
>>
>>
>> Only issue, and what led us to look as alternatives, is the transverse bed meaning
>> one of us clambering over the other when getting up for wee in the night.
>>
>>
BBD would see that as an opportunity.
|
|
...I'm not sure BBD would even bother getting up....
|
|
Yeah, I'm sure hes into watersports.
|
|
..well, each to his own. I was rather thinking about windows - caravans have them don't they?
|
>> Yeah, it's gonna be a write off
Gary from the local dealer/storage yard phoned and confirmed that, from the pov of a full repair back to 'as new' it's beyond economic repair. Even if there's a front 'apron' to fit it anywhere it would be a back to the factory job. That sort of thing on modern vans with 'Solid' construction is beyond the kit/skills of dealers, or at least this one.
They can however do a proper watertight repair, and conceal it cosmetically as best they can, with glass fibre/filler etc. £2k including 3 new skylights and a TV aerial - I forgot about that when looking for damage myself.
Will go for that I think.
|
|
I had a wheel come off a 'van years ago (wheel nuts loose). Insurance wanted to write it off, but I costed the price of a new shocker (it scraped the end off), welding and threading a new fixing, wheel, tyre and wheel nuts and they agreed, even wiping off the excess. Sold it later, as cosmetically it looked the same.
|
Why would you go for that rather than Insurance write off?
Are insurance paying for the repair?
|
|
My old man had a blow out in his '79 cortina estate towing the van. They were on the motorway up to the lakes when it happened and as he drifted to the hard shoulder the caravan actually flipped the car onto its side. The caravan was undamaged. The recovery guy decided to unhitch the van before tipping the car back but he misjudged the incline. As soon as they unhitched it, it rolled away and they couldn't stop it. It also ended on its side, speared by a few wooden fence posts. He reckoned it was salvageable apart from the jam and flour all over the seating.
|
>> Why would you go for that rather than Insurance write off?
>> Are insurance paying for the repair?
Write off, retain salvage and repair might be the option but sourcing a replacement 'van isn't easy.
This one's got a higher max weight than post 2015 versions and we've done various things to it to suit us which is why I'd rather repair.
|
Line drawn under this.
Caravan back in service but due to car issues described elsewhere we've yet to actually sleep in it since it was repaired. Now back in store and hopefully we'll be back at Wyatt's Covert later in the month. Mrs B's Xmas present included a trip to see Moonwalk with Tom Cruise in London and I'll stand her a meal at the Spaghetti House too.
Damage to the roller door was obviously down to me too. A very reasonable £384 which I settled directly with the contractor who did the job. Neither us nor the 'van people were up for the faff of sorting it on insurance.
|
Caravaning - smokie
