Anyone any experience of uprated halogen bulbs that last, H7 fit in our case.
Mrs F wants them fitted in the CLK but many user reviews comment on poor life... such as one guy who's got through 4 replacements in year.
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I put H7 Osram night breakers in the Lancer significant light improvement, but went for a notch too high, and they lasted a year. I racked down the anti a bit and went for the middle improvement range, not that much less brightness than the nuclear ones, and still a significant improvement over the standard ones, they lasted at least 4 years before the car was moved on.
You need to go branded, Philips or Osram. The others have rubbish life, and a poor beam pattern.
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Thanks for that. Seems to confirm online research that the absolute brightest can have such a short life... I've seen one where the maker advised a life of just 200hrs.
Yep will keep to decent branded... actually Mrs F said just get Mercedes ones but not going that far.
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The lights on my old Vectra-C were very poor. I went through the route of brighter bulbs, finding they'd only last 6 to 8 months at a time. Osram nightbreakers, IIRC. But even other brands were the same. Right PITA to change the offside one as well.
Someone once told me that if you work a bulb hard, then it will reduce the lifespan.
Ended up fitting an aftermarket HID kit as the headlights had projector style lenses which were designed for HIDs anyway. Didn't have any problems with blowing bulbs after that. Had better light output as well. So it was a win win situation. When I had halogen bulbs, I would get flashed at by other motorists on a weekly basis. Never got flashed at with the HIDs fitted.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 28 Jan 19 at 13:00
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Its hard to flash from a ditch
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Aftermarket HIDs in lights without washers and self levelling are now an MOT fail.... I had them in my 307 a couple of years ago, and they were good, but they seemed to go off after a couple of years and light output went down (and they weren't really cheap ones!).
Unfortunately getting more light out of an incandescent bulb means running it hotter with a finer wire, so it's never going to last as long. I used to think I was doing well if Osram Nightbreakers lasted their 1 year warranty period. Worth it for the enhanced light out though, given that I drive 6k a year in the dark on mostly unlit roads.
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Thanks Richard. In line with Zero's comments I'm looking at the various "extra brightness" percentages and will probably pick the middle ground.
Broadly speaking this extra brightness figure seems to run from older models around 60% and the highest at 150% which seem to be the ones that folks grumble about when they fail in a few months. I'm looking around the 60-90% types.
Pulling data on decent brands from various sources it seems a standard bulb might do up to 1000hrs... the very brightest perhaps as little as 200hrs... the middle range I'm looking at around 450hrs... and the standard brightness long life bulbs around 1500hrs.
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So this always confuses me - is 150% brighter mean 50% brighter than a normal bulb or 1.5 times brighter? ie double brightness plus another half?
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A small handful of folks on another forum are doing comparison work between different LED (not HID) bulbs on my car (Vx Ampera) which has poor lighting.
They are often sourcing form China, and most of the bulbs have been better, and the ones so far reported as best are not that pricey.
Mostly the bulbs are a direct replacement but some required a small amount fo "adjustment" to git - but more of an unknown so far is heat dissipation and the fact that the dust cap doesn't seem to properly fit afterwards with some, which could result in premature failure.
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Its the Beam pattern you need to worry about with cheap Chinese imports, the filaments are variable in placement. Also they tend to emit light on the wrong spectrum which will weaken, craze or haze any polymer headlamp lenses.
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>> Aftermarket HIDs in lights without washers and self levelling are now an MOT fail
Still a grey area, and most MOT testers will still issue a pass if the light output is the correct colour (i.e. not too blue) and if the alignment is correct.
Some cars with factory fit HIDs didn't have headlight washers or self levelling when they left the production line. (eg, some older Renault Meganes and at least one Mitsubishi Evo)
Self levelling is also difficult to test unless you can get some burly blokes to sit on the tail end of the car when it's being tested.
Also, if headlight washers are fitted, they have to work. If not fitted, they cannot be tested, hence they cannot earn a fail mark against them.
Like I said, it's still very much a grey area.
And then there are those people who swap back to halogen bulbs for the MOT test.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 29 Jan 19 at 10:43
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Not a grey area in regard to MOT regs. From the .Gov manual...
**Existing halogen headlamp units shouldn’t be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp**
Regarding the self leveling...
*Sometimes it isn't easy to determine if the self-levelling systems work. In such cases you should give the benefit of the doubt*
Obviously an individual tester may lack understanding of a particularly unusual model so may not be able to say for sure re the OE HID vs HID conversion... in which case they should not fail.
Re Zero's comment on the importance of bulb construction accuracy. On one test I read a major brand (Bosch I think) standard headlamp bulb pair were rated as highly overall as many of the uprated ones as their construction was such that their beam pattern and spread was perfect.
Also read that usually in the uprated ones only the better brands were made well enough for accuracy of beam pattern between a pair.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 29 Jan 19 at 12:07
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I fear this may be a dumb question;
What actually *is* an "HID Conversion Kit"? Is it just a physical adaptor to allow one shape bulb into another shape hole?
And while I think of it, why are they an MOT problem?
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>> What actually *is* an "HID Conversion Kit"? Is it just a physical adaptor to allow
>> one shape bulb into another shape hole?
www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/car-accessories-products/lighting-accessories/xenon-conversion-kits/?971779461&0&cc5_774
>> And while I think of it, why are they an MOT problem?
Brightness, beam pattern etc. and consequent dazzle.
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Basically it's an aftermarket kit consisting of a pair of ballasts and 2 bulbs. The ballasts are required to drive the HID bulb as they operate at very high voltages. There have been instances of death (electrocution) where mechanics have worked on HID systems in cars.
An aftermarket kit is significantly cheaper than a factory fit option. The bulbs are a lot cheaper too. But then you're not paying for a headlight wash system and automatic headlight levelling with an aftermarket kit. The Kits can be bought for as cheap as £20.
As regard MOTs, too many boy racers fit HIDs incorrectly. They're meant for projector style headlights which correctly focus the beam pattern. Fit HIDs in normal headlights with plain glass and you get a massive beam scatter. Yes, there are HID bulbs available for plain glass headlights, but all they have is a beam deflector which deteriorates over time with heat rendering them useless again.
www.powerbulbs.com/blog/2017/08/projector-reflector-headlights
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 29 Jan 19 at 12:52
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>> And then there are those people who swap back to halogen bulbs for the MOT
>> test.
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I couldn't possibly comment....! Mine were a PITA to fit so I wouldn't have been doing that. Annecdotally I have seen far fewer cars with non std HIDs since the new regs came in, suggesting that many have been replaced.
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One of the most frequent topics on Jaguar X type forums is re the awful awful dip beams fitted to the vast majority of X types.Thus there are lots of responses "Fit HIDs " etc.
A limited spec model did have HIDs as standard and HIDS might have been an optional extra.
IIRC factory fitted HIDs, unlike " normal lights", on start up, project downwards and then quickly motor up to the dip beam position. They are self leveling so no manual, on the dash, load compensator is fitted.
No X type owner, I am aware of has got beyond " What is involved in asking about changing to proper factory HIDs?"
For starters:-
New headlamp units with correct approval markings.
New steering column, several sensors at various locations .
HID parts plus wiring connections etc.
Headlamp washer if a lower spec model.
Never costed but my guess at least £ 2-3K but also no real Ebay option for S/H parts.
Until now £20+ for a HID kit and usually quick to fit then risk the MoT guy will ignore it.
( X types are little use re upping the power so not on the boy racers shopping list)
Times are a changing.
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Another vote for the mid-range Osrams, I ran their long-life for years and then wanted to go up to the next level which worked out to be the same price (Silverstar 2.0), easy swap on the Golf.
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Well I've read every review and bit of feedback I can across the net. Seems there is no brand immune from early failure once you get to even as lowly as the 60% extra brilliance types. Many folks seem to think a year's life is pretty good and failures at 2-4-6 months are not that uncommon.
Mrs F's time with headlamps on is somewhat increased as the CLK auto-lights bring them on early when most folks would still be on sidelights... and she doesn't want to turn the feature off.
And as a lone female quite frequently driving in the dark... and who couldn't change a bulb at the roadside... she's decided to stick with the OEs and not experiment with extra light.
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“Most folks would still be on sidelights?”
Surely if lights are needed then it’s headlamps.
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The CLK auto lights default to dipped headlamps when the lights levels are such many folks don't have any lights on and others have sidelamps on... and of course some other auto-lights cars may have put on the dipped too.
There are ambient light conditions where sidelamps are the most appropriate.
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>> There are ambient light conditions where sidelamps are the most appropriate.
However, its a shame very few people know when that is.
IMHO sidelights should only be used when parked up in a situation that the car needs to be seen. Not while the vehicle is in motion.
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I'd outlaw sidelights. Cars can become less visible if being followed by a properly lit car.
Why wouldn't you use dipped beam? Even on my EV it doesn't take a whole load from the battery.
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I agree . No conceivable reason to drive on sidelights or as they are now called parking lights. DLR during the day and headlights at night should be the rule. Easiest to just switch lights to Auto.
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>> I agree . No conceivable reason to drive on sidelights or as they are now
>> called parking lights. DLR during the day and headlights at night should be the rule.
>> Easiest to just switch lights to Auto.
Unfortunately that doesn't cover all eventualities. In poor visibility it is probably now even more common to see unlit cars. DRLs on the front, but often no lights at the rear.
My MX-5's rear light are always on when the DRLs are, which is sensible.
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>>Surely if lights are needed then it’s headlamps.
Highway code 115
You should also..use dipped headlights, or dim-dip if fitted, at night in built-up areas and in dull daytime weather, to ensure that you can be seen
>>There are ambient light conditions where sidelamps are the most appropriate.
>>>>IMHO sidelights should only be used when parked up in a situation that the car needs to be seen. Not while the vehicle is in motion.
>>>>No conceivable reason to drive on sidelights or as they are now called parking lights.
DLR during the day and headlights at night should be the rule.
>>>>I'd outlaw sidelights. Cars can become less visible if being followed by a properly lit car.
>>>>Why wouldn't you use dipped beam? Even on my EV it doesn't take a whole load from the battery.
>>>> In poor visibility it is probably now even more common to see unlit cars. DRLs on the front, but often no lights at the rear.
>>>>My MX-5's rear light are always on when the DRLs are, which is sensible.
The Highway code and some regulations seem to be way out of date with the current situation.
Not sure if there is any mention of sidelights in the HWC.
DRLs also not mentioned ?
The norm when " parked" i.e. wanting for a passenger is to leave dipped beams on so as to annoy and possibly confusing/ distracting other car drivers passing by.
Driving with just sidelights on IMO is often dangerous in today's world. Many vast arrays of DRLs seem much brighter than dip beams on older cars thus visibility is compromised.
It seems that with permanently lit dashboards and DRLs ( often front only) that auto lights are a backstop.
I got caught out driving my daughters ancient Yaris on a lit Motorway with no lights on but a lit dash :-(
The dashboard on my car is not permanently lit and I prefer not to use the autolight feature.
There is so much flashing of lights , sometimes " I am prepared to give way"and other times speed hump induced I do not want dark bridges adding to the the cause.
I am pleased all my cars have had twin rear fog and reversing lights.
IIRC one of my Fords great fog light arrangement was also used on Rolls Royce models :-)
Apart from cost saving , why only one of each on so many cars ?
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>> I am pleased all my cars have had twin rear fog and reversing lights.
>> Apart from cost saving , why only one of each on so many cars ?
Having 2 fog lights can mask brake lights being seen. Having only one fog light means any following motorists have more chance of seeing an increase in light levels when the brakes are applied. Especially so in really dense fog.
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> Having 2 fog lights can mask brake lights being seen. Having only one fog light
>> means any following motorists have more chance of seeing an increase in light levels when
>> the brakes are applied. Especially so in really dense fog.
>>
I agree but on the Ford and the RR, when fog lights were selected it brightened the rear lights that were positioned at the outside of the rear bodywork i.e. " the then normal position."
The brake lights were either side of the normal positioned number plate away from the fogs..
I fitted a pair of auxiliary rear fog lights (Wipac with factory supplied red lenses ) back in 1971 to my 1600E. Thus matching the standard, under the bumper twin reversing lights.
I modestly believe that I added more safety items to my 1600E than any other on the road
As soon as they became available I also fitted a ( DIY) Hella third brake light to my then Ford thus increasing the warning when braking.
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>>> Having 2 fog lights can mask brake lights being seen
I'm not convinced by that, but I'll tell you what is an issue; the American habit of flashing the back light as a turn signal. One colour in one cluster for lights, brake lights, fog lights and turn signals. Which genius thought that would be a good idea?
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>>...the American habit of flashing the back light as a turn signal.
>> One colour in one cluster for lights, brake lights, fog lights and turn signals.
>> Which genius thought that would be a good idea?
IMO one genius got it right, a mere 60 years ago.
tinyurl.com/y8krtd9n
( 872 characters in the original )
And still the same genius is producing light clusters front and rear that mask indicators and also position rear lights & brake lights in odd positions.
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Have to agree.
The 5w bulbs shed not enough light toward for them to be of any use to the driver and on coming vehicles don't pick them up until it's too late.
Should be for parking only.
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>> As you say your opinion.
As well as a few others ;)
>> There are ambient light conditions where sidelamps are the most appropriate.
Such as?
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 31 Jan 19 at 12:54
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As devil’s advocate I suppose you can make just about make a case for using sidelights in a well lit environment , indeed that would be the only circumstances where you can legally use sidelights rather than headlamps.
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>> As devil’s advocate I suppose you can make just about make a case for using
>> sidelights in a well lit environment , indeed that would be the only circumstances where
>> you can legally use sidelights rather than headlamps.
That's how they were used 40 or 50 years ago. Maybe there was some point then when dynamo/battery combinations struggled to keep pace on cars conditioned to short journeys on dark cold mornings/evenings.
Modern kit has alternators and can cope with all but most extreme (half mile round trip to take kids to school) short run usage. I go almost habitually to dipped beams under any conditions including good daylight - there's a long stretch in deep shade just beyond village boundary.
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>>That's how they were used 40 or 50 years ago. Maybe there was some point then when dynamo/battery combinations struggled to keep pace on cars conditioned to short journeys on dark cold mornings/evenings.
3-brush dynamos on Austin 7s and their ilk. They had a Winter/Summer switch on the dashboard to vary the output. It generated a higher current on Winter setting, presumably anticipating headlamp use and a lower current on Summer setting to avoid boiling the battery.
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>>>Such as?
About 30mins ago in the village.... but you just had to be there.
The time when adding a little extra visibility might be helpful but before the point when most would put their headlamps on (if we are considering cars that do not have auto lights).
Happy to be in the minority... but remember it's not as if I'm talking series 2 Land Rover sidelights... I have proper sidelights.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 31 Jan 19 at 16:05
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>>if we are considering cars that do not have auto lights
And what a royal PITA they can be.
In the Murano the dash lights are on *all* the time irrespective of what external lights are or are not on.
If you have the lights set to auto, which I do, then there is absolutely no clue other than the position of the switch. More to the point there is no clue when they are not on, especially in well illuminated areas.
On manual, but switched on, the car does not switch them off when you exit the vehicle and turn the ignition off. And since we have to have lights on when on the freeway, one is quite often using them in the day.
A crap implementation of a reasonable idea.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 31 Jan 19 at 16:08
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>> auto lights
>>
>> And what a royal PITA they can be.
I agree. At least I can override mine, but have to do it each and every time I start the engine. At least with my old Vectra I could turn off the auto feature and it would remain off until I chose to turn it back on again.
One of my main reasons for disliking auto lights is that on the way to work I have to go through an avenue of trees. Sometimes it can be quite dark driving through there, and just up the road ahead is a T junction just after you come the end of the trees. The auto lights decide to come on just as you're coming out of the trees, then the sensor realises it's not dark enough after all and turns the lights off again. Meanwhile the driver waiting at the T junction thinks you've flashed him out and pulls out in from of you!!!
Auto lights can be darn right dangerous at times.
I've had a few hire cars recently, and I've noticed that there is no longer an option to turn the auto lights off. The only option you have is to turn on side lights or headlights. I guess the option to override them is for when it's foggy, because auto lights aren't clever enough to know.
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>>Auto lights can be darn right dangerous at times.
I agree and for the sort of reasons you state.
On my X type the selection of auto lights is just another click on the master light switch.
Where are these nerds who think they know best. Are they ex aviation bods ?
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> On my X type the selection of auto lights is just another click on the
>> master light switch.
>>
>> Where are these nerds who think they know best. Are they ex aviation bods ?
>>
Probably a response to all the idiots who leave their lights (auto or otherwise ) off. Some drivers need to be left with as little as possible to do.
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One of my main reasons for disliking auto lights is that on the way to
>> work I have to go through an avenue of trees. Sometimes it can be quite
>> dark driving through there, and just up the road ahead is a T junction just
>> after you come the end of the trees. The auto lights decide to come on
>> just as you're coming out of the trees, then the sensor realises it's not dark
>> enough after all and turns the lights off again. Meanwhile the driver waiting at the
>> T junction thinks you've flashed him out and pulls out in from of you!!!
>>
>> Auto lights can be darn right dangerous at times.
Some probably are, although I bet there's a fair few out there that are clever enough to avoid that situation.
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>> Some probably are, although I bet there's a fair few out there that are clever
>> enough to avoid that situation.
I have yet to see auto lights look like they are "flashing me out"
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On the rare ocassions that I've used mine they are pretty quick to switch on but there is a significant delay before they switch off. At least five seconds.
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>>The time when adding a little extra visibility might be helpful but before the point when most would put their headlamps on (if we are considering cars that do not have auto lights).
but your sidelights will be pointless against every other vehicle with DRLs?
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Still not clear what people have against using dipped headlights...
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"The time when adding a little extra visibility might be helpful but before the point when most would put their headlamps on (if we are considering cars that do not have auto lights)."
If it's dark enough to feel you need lights and you are not in an area with streetlamps then you must by law use headlights.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 31 Jan 19 at 16:58
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>> About 30mins ago in the village.... but you just had to be there.
I was. Didn't see you though. Perhaps you should have had your lights on ;)
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>>>I was. Didn't see you though. Perhaps you should have had your lights on ;)
OK ha ha... very good.
>>>f it's dark enough to feel you need lights
Ahh well this may be where some misunderstanding is happening. I never use just sidelamps when it's dark or when headlamps would be needed.
>>> your sidelights will be pointless against every other vehicle with DRLs
Ahh now now an associated area where I also have views. I'm not totally into DRLs... some are just too bright and take your eye. Never mind me with "just" my sidelamps on... no DRLs on people, cyclists, dogs, potholes, traffic calming and many other potential hazards we should be aware of. Elevating the intensity of illumination on one aspect we should be looking out for just tends to put the rest "in the shade". Much in the same way that 500w halogen security lamps can be worse in some situations for security than a 60w bulb.
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I totally agree re DRLs.
Some seem to be almost a fashion statement :-(
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>> I totally agree re DRLs.
>> Some seem to be almost a fashion statement :-(
>>
Many people regard their car as a fashion statement :)
The DLRs are just a fashion accessory.
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Uprated bulbs - Zero
