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His victim wasn't quite as lucky...
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A case that probably would never see the inside of a court room....
No win no fee anybody??
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It's not now, but in a few days time the shock will come out, along with the bruises. He might not be so lucky after all!
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Is that an old Freelander? Surprised he’s not got something a little more modern!
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He used to drive an old London taxi IIRC
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I hope there will not be a knee jerk reaction to this accident which will mess things up for the driver aged over 70.
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>> I hope there will not be a knee jerk reaction to this accident which will
>> mess things up for the driver aged over 70.
At nearly 100 I suspect his knee jerk reaction is pretty slow. As well as everything else. You really shouldn't be driving at that age.
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>> I hope there will not be a knee jerk reaction to this accident
You mean like this?
"The speed limit on the stretch of road where the Duke of Edinburgh was involved in a car crash is expected to be reduced at a council meeting later."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-46912556
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Imagine being the protection officer sitting next to him waiting to pull out and you see the tiny Kia coming towards you, I bet in his mind he's thinking 'please don't pull out, please don't pull out', and then he does... does he say nothing or shout 'what the f$££££ Sir!'.
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Hahahaha...!
He had a phone call this morning "Our records tell me that one has been in an accident"..
Hopefully he'll be put out to grass now.
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It seems blame has not yet been apportioned but the Kia seems to have been in the correct lane whereas the Duke crossed to go straight ahead, thus blocking it. Both cars ended up on the opposite side of the road, the heaviest one on its side, indicating a lot of force from the Kia, hence high speed.
The A149 seems to be known for high speeds and I noted the same not far away, in the Fens on the other side of the Wash. The difference was striking to a southerner. I wonder what there is about these areas that makes drivers speed up?
As regards age being a factor, today's Telegraph points out that "Research published in 2016 by Swansea University showed that drivers aged 70 are involved in three to four times fewer accidents than men of 17 to 21". This is something of relevance although vague in its comparison between "drivers " and "men" and it tells us nothing about the age groups beyond 70.
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>> The A149 seems to be known for high speeds and I noted the same not
>> far away, in the Fens on the other side of the Wash. The difference was
>> striking to a southerner. I wonder what there is about these areas that makes drivers
>> speed up?
Less so in the last 2 years or so, but I have put on a lot of North Norfolk and Fenland miles, and yes its fast stuff by the locals. The roads are flat in the Fens, the views good, so speeding is easy to do. Dangerous tho, you need to know the roads well, there are lots of undulations and offset cambers to upset the handling, ice patches are common, and there is always a "drain" (a deep river to you and me) to drown in.
So you get a lot of fast fen drivers wandering into less flat North Norfolk.
>> As regards age being a factor, today's Telegraph points out that "Research published in 2016
>> by Swansea University showed that drivers aged 70 are involved in three to four times
>> fewer accidents than men of 17 to 21". This is something of relevance although vague
>> in its comparison between "drivers " and "men" and it tells us nothing about the
>> age groups beyond 70.
Thats almost entirely down to the testosterone driven lunatic tendencies of the 17 - 21 male driver.
I know, I was one.
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>> I was one.
#Me too!!!!!!!!!
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>> Imagine being the protection officer sitting next to him waiting to pull out...
I might have missed it - only paid scant attention - but haven't seen any suggestion there was anyone with him in the car.
Which might explain why he was driving a relatively old car - he nicked it and snuck out! :)
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>> >> I hope there will not be a knee jerk reaction to this accident
>>
>> "The speed limit on the stretch of road where the Duke of Edinburgh was involved
>> in a car crash is expected to be reduced at a council meeting later."
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-46912556
News reports on radio said this was co-incidence. The meeting was planned weeks ago.
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>> News reports on radio said this was co-incidence. The meeting was planned weeks ago.
Of course they would say that. But it wouldn't have been at the top of the agenda had it not been for the Duke's prang.
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>> >> I hope there will not be a knee jerk reaction to this accident
>>
>> You mean like this?
>>
>> "The speed limit on the stretch of road where the Duke of Edinburgh was involved
>> in a car crash is expected to be reduced at a council meeting later."
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-46912556
Thats not a knee jerk reaction, that was planned before the Dukes accident. I know that road quite well, used to have travel it a couple of times a month. It is fast and quite dangerous. A pure white deer leapt over a fence out of the Sandringham estate in front of me once.
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Dashcam footage reveals the Duke wasn't actually driving.
i.ibb.co/yqV2BzG/dog.jpg
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I understand he's blamed The Sun for his accident......
.....shouldn't have been reading at the wheel, then!
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Driving without Duke care and attention?
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...apparently, the reportage has been based on a misconception.
He actually said he blames The Son.........apparently Charles distracted him by reaching over his shoulder to change the radio station to Planet Rock.....
;-)
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...every fuel know that the rule of the road round there is Priorité à Dieu et mon Droit.......
Je vais chercher mon manteau ;-)
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Fri 18 Jan 19 at 20:55
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>> I understand he's blamed The Sun for his accident......
>>
The Mirror...
The Duke was reported to have said he had been dazzled by the sun – but Emma insists she recalls it being cloudy.
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I doubt one will be back on public roads. Mind he has enough private roads to drive on.
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Sorry if I missed this but does HRH need to have a licence?
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The Queen is the only person who does not need a licence to drive on U.K. roads.
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Apparently he was photographed driving yesterday without a seatbelt and was given 'suitable advice' by Norfolk police.... I hope that they charge him in the same way as anyone else.
Who else would be so stupid , not wearing a seatbelt after such an accident.
He is of course so used to getting his own way that he thinks he is immune from prosecution but hopefully they will throw the book at him.
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>> Apparently he was photographed driving yesterday without a seatbelt and was given 'suitable advice' by
>> Norfolk police.... I hope that they charge him in the same way as anyone else.
I should think plenty of people are given "words of advice" about non-seatbelt-wearing, and I inferred that in this case it probably wasn't even witnessed by the police. Try reporting any other random seat belt dodger with photograph and see what happens.
This non-story has brought out a lot of ageist and anti-Royal rubbish. My first thought when I saw the story wasn't "it's because he's 97" but "saccadic masking", probably the biggest cause of accidents at junctions.
thedile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Sorry-mate-I-didnt-see-you.pdf
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>>This non-story has brought out a lot of ageist and anti-Royal rubbish.
Oh yes. Red tops reporting that he has not apologised /said sorry or contacted the occupants of the other vehicle.
e.g. www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-philips-crash-victim-reveals-13882041
I was always told when in a RTC do not admit to anything as it compromises your legal team in defending you.
Sky says "With a police investigation still going on, one piece of advice he probably has listened to is to not apologise because it could be seen as an admission of responsibility."
I wondered what one does in this situation?
Previous form and lots of practice ?
www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2019/01/18/prince-philips-decades-previous-collisions-remembered-norfolk/
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>> One is back at the wheel:
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46933739
>>
And, while the replacement is a Freelander from elsewhere in the fleet, I assume that there’ll be a trickle up effect leading to the purchase of a replacement Land Rover vehicle of some sort. So he’s doing his bit for the somewhat troubled Jaguar Landrover Group ;)
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>>Who else would be so stupid , not wearing a seatbelt after such an accident.
One wonders whether One was wearing one at the time of the accident?
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The other half who is something of a Royal watcher tells me that Philip has always been something of a risk taker. All this appears in character.
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>> One wonders whether One was wearing one at the time of the accident?
Can't find it now, but I thought one of the reports from the other day suggested he wasn't wearing one.
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The Police would routinely breathalyse a driver involved in an accident of this apparent severity.
I wonder if El Duque was subjected to such a test?
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One pays accident victim a visit.
tinyurl.com/prphcr
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Very good (alas too close to the truth!)
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Seems the media are going out of their way to rake up dirt on previous accidents the Duke has been in. Here's one example from 1964.
www.itv.com/news/2019-01-24/newly-uncovered-archive-of-crash-involving-the-duke-of-edinburgh-in-1964-emerges/
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One hands licence in:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47186875
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 9 Feb 19 at 21:18
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He’s done the right thing but I do feel a little sorry for him. It’s difficult to accept that you are no longer both physically and mentally the person you once were. I hope he has a few more years in him yet. The world needs more people like the Duke.
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I think there's plenty of life left in the old boy yet. He's done very well, considering men tend to fall of their perch before women.
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In what way do we need more like the duke?
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>> In what way do we need more like the duke?
>>
To keep Land Rover in business.
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Interesting people with a mind of their own, awkward , cantankerous, loyal, determined, outspoken, entertaining, and individual.
Too much blandness in the world.
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From my experience, that description pretty much sums up any of that age group!
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Or the membership here!
'8o)
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>>He's done the right thing but I do feel a little sorry for him.
>>
One could always drive round in ones estate but if found venturing on public roads without a licence and no insurance.......?
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Even on private roads I imagine there would be no insurance cover for an unlicensed driver.
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>> Even on private roads I imagine there would be no insurance cover for an unlicensed driver.
>>
But one could arrange payment for any vehicle bodywork damage without the long arm of the law involved ?
Personal injuries - another matter ? :-(
Will SWMBO offer to drive him ?
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>> Even on private roads I imagine there would be no insurance cover for an unlicensed
>> driver.
How do you think it works for tractors and unlicensed / underage drivers on farms?
It's all a question of the level and type of public access.
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>>How do you think it works for tractors and unlicensed / underage drivers on farms?
I have a sheltered urban existance so assumed rural activities were often a law unto themselves :-(
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I was driving tractors and Landrovers on the farm from the age of five onwards including on public roads, that was in the wilds of Northumberland and over 60 years ago .Nobody bothered about insurance or health and safety then.
I thought it had probably changed a bit now but certainly the recent programme on the Yorkshire farming family on the moors with nine kids reminded me very much of my own childhood.
The 14 year old son of the family was responsible for all the mechanical repairs and was also restoring and driving his own vintage tractors , and rounding up sheep on a quad bike on the farm land . Don' t think he was allowed on the public roads though.
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It all goes on still. Rural Devon etc.
'We' ran a 1.6 Triumph Vittesse when we were 16. No, not on the fields. I've mentioned it before.
Someone close to my heart (work it out) use to tootle around on a kwacker Z1 when that person was 16 yo. Suzuki 750 triple watercooled too. That person 'graduated' to an RD350B when that person got his licence (at the first attempt). Talk about stepping backwards!!!
If one behaves sensibly then one may skim by authority, but if one acts the hooligan then one is likely to get one's collar felt. Just saying.
Anyway, look for the new topic.
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The surprise of the day.
The Duke of Edinburgh will not face prosecution over his road crash near the Sandringham estate, the Crown Prosecution Service has said.
The 97-year-old voluntarily gave up his driving licence on Saturday after his Land Rover Freelander collided with another vehicle in Norfolk last month.
He later apologised to the occupants of the other car - two women and a baby.
The CPS says it decided that it would not be in the public interest to prosecute the duke.
Chris Long, Chief Crown Prosecutor from CPS East of England, said: "We took into account all of the circumstances in this case, including the level of culpability, the age of the driver and the surrender of the driving licence."
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Exactly what I said would happen when it was first reported.
I really hope that the same conditions are afforded to a 'regular' citizen.
How will this affect the injured driver if they wish to claim personal damages?
Surely they aren't saying that nobody was at fault?
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>> I really hope that the same conditions are afforded to a 'regular' citizen.
>>
>> How will this affect the injured driver if they wish to claim personal damages?
>>
>> Surely they aren't saying that nobody was at fault?
>>
would guess that not prosecuting once the licence has been surrendered is a fairly common scenario, what's the point of court proceedings when there is no licence to add points to and the normal level of fine associated will be less than the cost of the prosecution process.
Don't know entire circumstances of accident but I guess the royal insurance will be paying out for other car and any injury claims. What else would you like to see
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Fairness.
Seems to me he probably was 'advised' to give up licence to avoid the chance of prosecution, he's lucky he has that luxury and still be driven around, of course he can still drive on his (sorry our) vast estates.
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Seems a reasonable outcome, one I'm sure that happens many times a year.
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One has got away without police charges.
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>> One has got away without police charges.
As one might expect. No point in prosecuting when he's given up driving and fine is meaningless.
Doing so would be a complete waste of public money.
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Prosecution would clearly not be in the public interest for the reasons stated.
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Is this what would happen to Joe Bloggs? Not even a fine?
........ and I consider myself a royalist.
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>> Is this what would happen to Joe Bloggs? Not even a fine?
I hope so. It certainly should. Other than to keep the Daily Mail happy what purpose would prosecution serve in this circumstance, whoever the driver concerned?
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"I hope so. It certainly should."
I wonder if I, or anyone else, caused a similar road traffic accident and said "right, thassit, I'm giving up driving", then we would be allowed to walk away.
Are you still reading the Daily Mail?
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I am aware of a similar case which had a similar outcome so if you are in your nineties and are a danger on the roads the answer is in all likelihood yes.
If there were to be a successful prosecution, by no means a certainty, what would the outcome be? A fine and a ban from driving. The main benefit to th public would be to get the offending driver off the road. If that can be achievd by surrender of licence then that is surely the way to go.
What would your solution be then?
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"If there were to be a successful prosecution, by no means a certainty, what would the outcome be? A fine and a ban from driving. The main benefit to th public would be to get the offending driver off the road. If that can be achievd by surrender of licence then that is surely the way to go.
What would your solution be then?"
Say the other driver had been killed ....... would it still be as easy to walk away by handing in your license?
If I accidentally shot someone, could I walk away if I handed in my shotgun license?
My solution would have to involve some form of compulsory testing for the ever-widening band of oldies. Either that, or have fat rubber bumpers on all vehicles.
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Doesn’t really solve the current issue though does it? How would you have likes to see the Duke dealt with. A charge of Careless Diving, a pointless fine and his surrendered licence endorsed perhaps?
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"How would you have likes to see the Duke dealt with."
I'd have him picking litter from the side of the A14.
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>> "How would you have likes to see the Duke dealt with."
>>
>> I'd have him picking litter from the side of the A14.
>>
Pretty sure it's not normal to send near 100 year olds out litter picking.
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>> My solution would have to involve some form of compulsory testing for the ever-widening band
>> of oldies.
And even more testing of young drivers. Better still nobody under the age of 25 to be allowed to drive.
www.click4reg.co.uk/blog/drivers-under-age-of-25-cause/
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>> I wonder if I, or anyone else, caused a similar road traffic accident and said
>> "right, thassit, I'm giving up driving", then we would be allowed to walk away.
The answer is probably yes.
He's surrendered his licence so nothing to 'endorse' with points. Any fine, even with 'victim surcharge' and full costs of prosecution were added would be meaningless given his wealth.
Conversely, if he was without a pot to p*%% in, the no point argument would still apply; he'd just be paying £3.60 a week for rest of his life.
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I thought this would be the outcome.
When I was on the road it was the outcome on many occasions. The lever is that if they are not prepared to surrender their licence then the outcome of court case would potentially request that the driver retake their driving test. That tends to focus their decision making and stubborn pride in that deep down they know that they would not pass a test so better take the easier option.
When a licence is surrendered one still has a driver record with DVLA until one passes. It is possible to re apply for a licence :O
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Sorry still don't get it.
So by giving up your licence you absolve yourself from prosection?
I can understand if it was just car related (speeding) but where does it cross the line into maybe injuring someone while driving?
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>> Sorry still don't get it.
A case of who it was, and funny handshakes, future knighthoods, etc.
I'm sure the outcome would have been different if they didn't have blue blood running through their veins.
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FC has already told you that is what usually happens, blue blood or not. The police would have been very foolish to make an exception, and they didn't.
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Absolute tosh. See the example I gave above.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 15 Feb 19 at 14:18
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>> Absolute tosh. See the example I gave above.
The example where no one got injured? Not quite the same is it? In fact I could go as far as to say it's absolute tosh ;)
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>> >> Absolute tosh. See the example I gave above.
>>
>> The example where no one got injured? Not quite the same is it? In fact
>> I could go as far as to say it's absolute tosh ;)
>>
No , I agree it’s not quite the same. The driver in the example I gave could have been charged with Dangerous Driving, a far more serious offence than the Careless Driving with which the Duke would likely have been charged. The injury to the third party would have no relevance to the outcome of the case and would not have been taken into account.
Talk of blue blood and Masonic handshakes is unsubstantiated rubbish with no basis in the facts.
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>> Talk of blue blood and Masonic handshakes is unsubstantiated rubbish with no basis in the
>> facts.
My initial comment was more tongue in cheek than anything else.
I still stand by he should have been served with some sort of punishment though.
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>> I still stand by he should have been served with some sort of punishment though.
So because he is special you think he should be treated more harshly than a same age commoner?
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Ar you back from your cruise Zero?
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>> Ar you back from your cruise Zero?
Indeedy, it was only a 7 day cruise, flew in from Bridgetown at 4 am on Friday. Landed in thick freezing fog at Gatwick, pilot telling us that the boeing 787 autoland would be doing the job. And a fine job it made of it.
Cruise was Barbados, St Maarten, British Virgin Islands, St Kitts, Guadeloupe. St Vincent with a transfer to Mustique, and back to Barbados. Weather was lovely the whole time, typically tropical, Sunny and hot all day with a 10 minute downpour.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 16 Feb 19 at 20:37
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Welcome back then. Hopefully you have escaped the worst of winter with the promise of an early spring. Not quite Mustique but Cromer was warm and sunny yesterday!
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>> Welcome back then. Hopefully you have escaped the worst of winter with the promise of
>> an early spring. Not quite Mustique but Cromer was warm and sunny yesterday!
You are right, having done both now I can confidently say Cromer is nothing like Mustique.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 16 Feb 19 at 20:48
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Yep, Mustique needs a pier and some decent fish and chips.
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What would you suggest then
Choice legally is between suspending a surrendered licence and/or a fine if found guilty
Not much point in either is there? He’s not going to offend again is he and he’s no longer a danger to others.
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>>A case of who it was, and funny handshakes, future knighthoods, etc
So because it was the Duke of Edinburgh, a group of Masons stopped his prosecution in return for future knighthoods?
Wow. Tinfoil hat as well??
That really is a pile of rubbish.
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>> Sorry still don't get it.
>>
>> So by giving up your licence you absolve yourself from prosection?
No, prosecution however would probably have resulted in the beak taking away his license till he passed a test because of his age, just as that would have happened to anyone else. He in effect pleaded guilty by surrendering his license, an option available to anyone in similar circumstances
>> I can understand if it was just car related (speeding) but where does it cross
>> the line into maybe injuring someone while driving?
Different matter, had someone died we would be looking at causing death by careless or dangerous driving, as would be the case with any 90+ year old... The sentence is different so surrendering a license will not absolve you from prosecution.
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"The sentence is different so surrendering a licence will not absolve you from prosecution."
True - each case is decided by the police / CPS on its merits. But I think it's normal not to prosecute where someone is apologetic and surrenders their licence.
It makes no differtence who you are. The same thing happened to my father (a retired naval officer) towards the end of his life (aged 80). His car scraped the side of another, and he didn't notice, but was reported by the other driver. He realised that he had to give up driving, and wasn't prosecuted.
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When an offence of 'Careless Driving' is prosecuted the consequences of the offence are not considered or mentioned in court.
What is being prosecuted is the standard of driving that led up to the collision.
So someone can pull out of a junction infront of a car and a collision occurs. Being a car with all its protection and safety aides there may be no or little injury to the driver. Undertake evactly the same manouvre infront of a motorcycle and the consequences can be fatal. Exactly the same standard of driving.
This is whey Death by Careless was brought in after many contentious cases where the punishment did not appear to match the outcome. Bigger sentences available and the fact that death was a consequence is now apparent to the Judiciary.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 15 Feb 19 at 19:10
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I think some peoples ideas of what is reasonable are being clouded by who he is.
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However it was arrived at, it's the right outcome. The old boy's off the road.
Now all we need is compulsory re-testing for the over 80s
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>> Now all we need is compulsory re-testing for the over 80s
>>
Now all we need is regular comprehensive compulsory eyesight test for all.
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...poor driving practice by the elderly is far from uncommon.
Heading out through the village High Street today, my progress was blocked by a car coming the other way driven by an elderly lady.
I stopped and flashed my lights repeatedly, but she kept advancing, despite a queue of some 10 vehicles or so approaching.
Now, the street has been reduced in width to a single lane, has been one-way for years, has no side-roads from which you can enter and turn the wrong way, and one would have to be deliberately obtuse to enter from the wrong end, the road layout making it virtually impossible.
It took some time for the penny to drop, and the reverse and ultimate U-turn manoeuvre was painful to watch. She then shot off at a rate of knots, and sailed round a right-angle bend beyond the bottom of the one-way system at speed, without signalling, and nearly wiped out someone coming the other way.
Looks like one of her family should be having a word.
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>> Looks like one of her family should be having a word.
At 83 with rapid vascular dementia starting I stole my mothers car keys* I went with her to the doctor, the doctor suggested her driving time was up, to be met with a torrent of derision and argument by my mother.
Given I was present when the doctor told her to stop driving, I figured that if I did not take steps to prevent her driving, morally and legally I would be guilty of aiding and abetting any deaths she caused, directly or indirectly.
*It was probably the toughest thing I have ever faced in my life (even including my present cancer diagnosis), I knew to her it was like cutting her legs off, taking away her last shred of control she had over her lifestyle. I knew it would hasten her condition, and I was right, it did. I also know I did the right thing for the right moral reason.
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I have to say, I didn't get annoyed, and I posted this with no malice, and with no little sympathy.
Been through the whole process in the past with my M-i-L.
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"How will this affect the injured driver if they wish to claim personal damages?"
Well, if it were me - the guy who got crashed into by the Queen's husband - I think it would affect me well. So long is my car were put back as before, or better or replaced (which I'm sure will happen) and one hell of a fantastic pub story to pass down to my kids, I'd be a happy guy. Mixing with the royalty with quite an impact. Beat that.
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People are getting their panties in a knot for no reason.
Old bloke causes accident, gives up licence having realised it is time, the matter is left.
I am sure it happens all the time. Loads and loads I should think. And it seems pretty much how it should happen. AND as it happens, is in accordance with normal practice and the law.
But the professionally shocked and appalled leap up and down because it was a Duke and they are desperately trying to seek a conspiracy.
Tedious, petty and small.
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>> Old bloke causes accident, gives up licence having realised it is time
Given his history for being a stubborn old so and so, I suspect the decision was made by someone other than him to surrender his licence.
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One is lucky - R.P.
