I was taught to always leave the car in gear at lights, I prefer not to replace the clutch bearings every few years so I do what my dad has always done and stick into neutral. When the lights change amber that is plenty of time to get it into first.
However most people seem to leave it in first, sometimes for more than five minutes when at lights it is the way people are taught now.
What do most people on here do?
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I am surprised you can pass your test if you leave the car in neutral at the lights with the clutch dipped. It's neutral with handbrake on surely?
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Yep thats what I mean. Neutral then hand brake, the way people are taught now is clutch down, 1st gear then handbrake. You're then supposed to leave in first and drive off when the lights change. At lights I leave in neutral with no pedals on the floor, just hand brake. If I think the lights are only going to be red for a second longer or so I just drop the speed and its on green by the time I approach anyway.
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i nearly got metamorphised by am aa learner car today
fortunately the woman stopped before i t boned her
she had either nicked the car or was the instructer
she got a very big finger wag from me i can tell you
oh yes
im a neutral man myself too
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Handbrake on, neutral, clutch out, particularly if I've seen the lights change to red, and I know I'm going to be sitting there a while.
Any unnecessary pressure on the clutch pedal will put undue stress on the release bearing whether the car is in gear or not.
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I know that but all my mates thing I am mad for not leaving it gear. I just don't get it. Lights change to amber, stick it in first, drive off whats the big issue?
According to ADIs we are all completly in the wrong though :(.
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According to ADIs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>half of them are idiots though so stick to your best practise like i do mr rattle
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I think it was this site (well HJ) that told me to this anyway after I burnt out the clutch on the MK4 Fezza by following ADIs advice :).
I can actually understand leaving it in gear if it was a big truck where gear changes are heavy, but on a typical ADI car or even my panda the gear change is so light I can do it with a finger.
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Neutral and handbrake for me, An HGV instructor told me that it was a few moments relax time. Odd what you remember.
I think the reason that "older" drivers use this technique is that when they learned to drive the clutch release bearing was a solid carbon bush, easily worn out, unlike the more modern ball bearing type.
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Neutral and handbrake for me, its what i was taught to do.
I dont know how true this is but someone once told me that they had it on good authority that if you where rear ended when you where stationary that it was checked that your handbrake was applied, thus if you then are shunted into someone infront of you, you are removed from the blame
again dont know if thats right or not
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It was a concentric slave cylinder/release bearing failure that gave me a grand's worth of bill on the Scenic. I'm paranoid since then. :-(
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Its another thing people keeping commenting on but my dad does, leave the hand brake on at lights. Yet this apparantly is wrong :(. A friend of mine even leaves hers in 1st on hills and balances on the bite. She moans that her clutch is slipping!
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When I passed my test, I'd have failed if I did what is being taught now. I assume you put it in 1st when you anticipate the lights are about to change. This is poor advice for learners.
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Yeah stick in first, clutch down and hand brake on. Wait for release bearing to bake, release clutch, drive to Fastfit get charged £300+, stop at lights, burn clutch....
I either roll it into neutral or change into 2nd or third depending on the situation. Rolling into neutral is probably a very bad idea too though as there is no engine braking so thats a habbit I need to get out of it.
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>> A friend of mine even leaves hers in 1st on hills and balances on the bite.
You'd fail doing that on a test surely?
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>> >> A friend of mine even leaves hers in 1st on hills and balances on
>> the bite.
>>
this is very common now,in fact its so common i know of a hill junction that has an accident every morning because clutch control is not practised enough by driving instructers
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I know your pain DP, having suffered a £500 clutch change on the Octavia while on holiday. I have always put it in neutral at lights cos thats the way I was taught and, as said, its a good opportunity to stretch/wiggle the clutch foot for a moment when waiting.
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i do it because i dont want to have to put a clutch in the blighters
and or as said so when i get shuntered up the derrier its now in gear and i hit the car in front
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I passed my test in 1977 & l am pretty sure that the revered Ted Rhodes ADI dinned me into secured (handbrake, neutral feet off everything) on anything other than a give way. Indeed I'm not convinced that sitting at a red light, in gear, clutch dipped was not a test fault.
My daughter, born 1992, passed test in July 2010 and just done pass+ was taught to stay in first with clutch dipped unless anticipating an exceptionally long stop.
Nothing on my car or the instructors to stop a wet shoe slipping off the pedal.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 27 Aug 10 at 23:26
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I tend to knock my car into neutral as Im rolling to a stop so Im not even in gear when I come to a rest and with local traffic lights, you tend to know how long you have so can anticipate when you need to get it in 1st.
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stunorthants29 - you'd fail for not being in control of the vehicle if you did that on a test.
It seems the rules changed.... I wonder if this is related to stop-start technology? i.e. avoiding it cutting in?
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It's because new drivers can take a while to select 1st gear. They instruct it as a courtesy to more experienced road users.
The sharper students will learn in time, the less sharp will occassionally tear through a red light after sitting stationary one one for a few moments.
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I sometimes do that too, but it is a really bad habbit as its not in proper control and it must put more preasure on the brakes because there is no engine braking.
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>>it must put more preasure on the brakes because there is no engine braking.
No, as soon as you need to brake faster than engine braking - i.e., as soon as you would need to put your foot on the brake, engine inertia is actually hindering braking. Disconnecting the engine by pushing the clutch effectively reduces the total kinetic energy that the brakes need to dissipate. If you need to stop quickly, push the clutch pedal down.
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In a diesel engine braking can be useful on motorways to maintain distance to the cars in front. In a petrol use brakes I would think.
And Rattle rarely does motorways ;-)
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"My daughter, born 1992, passed test in July 2010 and just done pass+ was taught to stay in first with clutch dipped unless anticipating an exceptionally long stop."
Why?
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Another handbrake, neutral person here... Seems we are in the majority!
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Or is it that the rest of do it the 'wrong' way and don't like to admit it!
I do, unless it looks like a lengthy wait and I've never had clutch problems in either a lorry or a car.
Pat
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So it's you with your brake lights on is it Pat? :-)
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Not at all, I always stop on flat ground, no brake needed:)
It's called professionalism!
Like being able to pull into a lay-by and park over a drain when you want to water the wheelnuts:)
For those who misunderstand......this is NOT serious.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Sat 28 Aug 10 at 09:03
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>> Like being able to pull into a lay-by and park over a drain when you
>> want to water the wheelnuts:)
>>
>> For those who misunderstand......this is NOT serious.
>>
>> Pat
>>
Or drop your...........keys. :-)
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For me, it depends.
If I have seen the lights change to red, I know Im in for a wait, so neutral,Parking brake on.
Also by watching the junction you can normally tell how long before your turn to go. i.e., most lights seem to rotate clockwise, junction to your left, then straight opposite you, then to your right, then (at last!) your turn.
By using that knowledge, you know when to engage gear ready for the off, but I always have a quick look (if possible) up the last road that was green, before crossing the junction - round here we have a lot of chancers that cross on red!
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I always kept cars in neutral (with/out handbrake depending on slope) at trafic lights.
Now I drive an auto and still follow same rule :-)
Last edited by: movilogo on Sat 28 Aug 10 at 09:42
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Handbrake on, in neutral, clutch engaged is what I was taught to do. Ever since I passed the test I've always tried to think about what I was doing driving-wise (rather than just doing things automatically as a thoughtless reaction) and I'm happy that my method is both the safest and causes the minimum of wear.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 28 Aug 10 at 09:50
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>> "My daughter, born 1992, passed test in July 2010 and just done pass+ was taught
>> to stay in first with clutch dipped unless anticipating an exceptionally long stop."
>>
>> Why?
Cannot find the thread now but I asked the question here. One of our ADI's (Robin Joe?) gave that same answer as mentioned here; removal of an opportunity to fumble. Miss B's instructor confirmed that.
Since the test I've talked her out of it suggesting she watches the light's phasing carefully using that as a pre-warning.
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"removal of an opportunity to fumble. "
Interesting. Probably true enough, but some of us can fumble just about anything, and so might well stall regardless!
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>>
>> Cannot find the thread now but I asked the question here. One of our ADI's
>> (Robin Joe?) gave that same answer as mentioned here; removal of an opportunity to fumble.
>> Miss B's instructor confirmed that.
>>
I always taught clutch down in gear with the handbrake on when in the first three places at the lights, further back and it was into neutral. I used to make a point of telling the pupil that it was a practice they should grow out of with experience as handbrake/neutral was the best method. Driving instructors have to live in the real world and learners are just too slow in getting the car ready without causing a hold up and the subsquent abuse and aggro that ensues. They get enough of that already. It's easy to be holier-than-thou if you have never had to do the job yourself.
I used to run my cars to 100k and never replaced a clutch.
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>> In a diesel engine braking can be useful on motorways to maintain distance to the cars in front.
>> In a petrol use brakes I would think
No, no, no, no, no! Petrols still have engine braking, but the effect is not as pronounced. Just anticipate a little further ahead.
An old driving instructor explained it to me thus: When you join a motorway, allocate yourself 10 points and deduct one point for every time you touch the brakes during your journey. If, when you leave the motorway, your score is less than 10, you have failed.
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I usually stick on the handbrake and put it in neutral. The only time I might not, is when I am at a junction where the road narrows to fewer lanes on the far side of the junction. If I give the other queue a split second advantage (they'll be starting a slow roll, while I am putting it in gear), I'll often end up a few cars back, because they'll have the momentum and won't let me across (equally often, they'll politely take it in turns, one from one lane and one from the other, but I hate to get pushed back when they don't).
It seems silly, but it does feel like having a break when you put it in neutral and stick on the handbrake.
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I don't obsess about such things. Take it as it comes. If it's clear that I'm in for a long wait I'll pull the handbrake on and select neutral, usually swiftly followed by cracking the window open and lighting a fag. Alternatively if I know or can guess it's a quick sequence I'll just leave it in gear and cover the footbrake. Same philosophy whether I'm in a manual or auto to be honest.
Oh and for whatever reason I've never managed to cream cracker a clutch so it must be sort of fine to do that.
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>> Followed by cracking the window open and lighting a fag
You do realise it's illegal to smoke in your Qashqai at any time? ;-) It's a place of work being a company car. You should in theory have no smoking stickers on display.
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Yeah I know, should be a hanging offence or at least subject to 50 lashes. Sometimes I break wind in there too. Perhaps I'll turn myself in. I can't live with the guilt anymore.
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disgusting....................;-)
you will be telling us you are a traffic jam nose picker next-
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Certainly not BB, one has to have some standards. I limit that to when it's dark.
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Neutral and foot brake for short stops otherwise handbrake. It might be a bad habit but I rarely put foot on clutch when shifting into neutral if coming to a stop, foot off gas and lever eases no problem into neutral, save a fraction of clutch wear. Infact sometimes I can drive up and down the gears without clutch, up changes a doddle, down changes need a good blip of throttle to match speeds of cogs.
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Of course the Sheikh and others here are right to take the car out of gear when waiting at the lights. Handbrake too, especially if on a slope. There are safety reasons as well as a thrifty attitude to clutch release bearings.
But the other thing learners are taught to do these days is hold the car on the clutch at steep road junctions. New drivers these days rabbit moronically about the 'biting point' of the clutch, which seems to make them feel very expert, but a lot of them don't understand that this treatment causes wear and if indulged in for more than a few seconds excessive heat in the clutch.
Is modern driving instruction, combined with gormless car users - such people can't be termed motorists - the reason why we are all so suspicious of dual mass flywheels? I think it probably is. Enough of this abuse will damage a DMF. The rubber stuff melts and the springs lose their temper.
So would I if I were them.
:o}
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I now feel I was born in 1932 and not 1982! I never did get to try that crashbox on the old Bedford though!.
I keep telling my ex not to keep holding the car on the bite but she dosn't listen, she just moans it keeps slipping.
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You are probably in some low alehouse or dive glugging it down by now Sheikha, in direct contravention of the rules of your putative religion, but happy birthday.
27 is a good age, without the puppyish frivolity of 26 but not yet blighted by the filthy-souled, world-weary cynicism and rapacity of 28.
Heh heh... have a good blast young man.
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Still at home drinking some Leffe, its going to be a long one (planning to get a taxi back at 4:00am).
I am 28 btw :). So I am a cynical twit worried about hitting 30.
Got the Panda till I am 32 and then it I will see how technologies pan out before deciding on a either a petrol or electric car.
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>> Still at home drinking some Leffe, its going to be a long one (planning to
>> get a taxi back at 4:00am).
Good lad, make a theme night of it. Try some Kwak, and Triple Grimberger. Finish off with a little Duval.
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I've had Duval quite a few times, very strong stuff. Sadly I am going into the city centre so bars don't sell the real stuff, Duvel is about as strong as it gets, there is a pub near me that sells 10% ales.
Never had any Kwak before, will try it some where sells it :).
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>> Duval quite a few times, very strong stuff.
Duvel is indeed a bit on the strong side. Its proper glass has a long funnel above the pot-bellied bit ffor the column of foam you get when you pour it properly: upending the fat little bottle into the glass and getting all the yeast deposits from the bottom to make it cloudy. Then you sink your teeth and Belgian fluebrush moustache into it with a grateful grunt and snort. Let no one argue about this. Pour it however you want, but that's how my Bruxellois hack buddy does it.
Draught Leffe Blonde is the most cheering brew known to man. I hardly ever drink more than three halves though, even when I'm not driving. One gets less gung-ho with age and a pint and a half of that is worth four pints of bitter any day. Soul food.
Sorry I got your age wrong Sheikha. Just up all the figures one year. People of thirty are depraved, heartless psychopaths. I was anyway.
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>>>> But the other thing learners are taught to do these days is hold the car
>> on the clutch at steep road junctions.
>>
No they ain't.
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>>The rubber stuff melts and the springs lose their temper
>> So would I if I were them
Is that what DMF means? Destroy me fast :-)
Last edited by: corax on Sat 28 Aug 10 at 18:10
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>> I can drive up and down the gears without clutch, up changes a doddle, down changes need a good blip of throttle to match speeds of cogs.
I could be wrong, but I thought that would cause excessive wear on the syncromesh unless you match the speeds very accurately.
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>>> a good blip of throttle to match speeds of cogs<<<
And waste fuel.
Pat
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>> Neutral and foot brake for short stops otherwise handbrake. It might be a bad habit
>> but I rarely put foot on clutch when shifting into neutral if coming to a
>> stop, foot off gas and lever eases no problem into neutral, save a fraction of
>> clutch wear. Infact sometimes I can drive up and down the gears without clutch, up
>> changes a doddle, down changes need a good blip of throttle to match speeds of
>> cogs.
>>
Please tell us what car you abuse so that second hand buyers know what to avoid.
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well a mk2 escort was the easiest car i ever drove to not need a clutch in once i was rolling ,but i do agree its easier going up the box than down
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I've forgotten what to do it's been that long since i drove a manual car for any time.
Navy mentioned above a bit of respite or similar to neutralise it when he did his HGV training.
You needed to be king kong to hold the clutch down on a Scammell indeed most trucks of the day with unassisted clutches, you simply couldn't hold the thing down for extended periods even if you wanted to...or so me dad told me, before my time..;)
And they wonder why old time truck drivers hobble around especially in the cold.
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>> >> Followed by cracking the window open and lighting a fag
>>
>> You do realise it's illegal to smoke in your Qashqai at any time? ;-)
>>
Reported in the press ( from the USA) when a certain femail was arrested....l
"'Officers noticed a vehicle leaving a smoke trail of a contolled substance (and) made a stop based on that,' he said."
So beware someone may be watching :-)
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Ah well, better watch out for the breaking news then !
"Middle aged man to be shot at dawn on prime time TV in Trafalgar Square. The Prime Minister announced this extreme punishment as part of the new government's toughen up on serious crime campaign. The man, who otherwise has no criminal record was found to be smoking a Marlboro light with the window open while sitting in his company car"
It has been decided that such serious crimes are to be eradicated by whatever means. available. Society can no longer tolerate such behaviour.
Drinking alcohol to excess in public will of course still be encouraged as this does no harm at all.
:-)
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Come on Humph, do you really expect consistency from the, (I almost said our), politicians? I will be generous and say that wind direction has a major influence on their decisions.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 29 Aug 10 at 11:52
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>> Come on Humph, do you really expect consistency from the, (I almost said our), politicians?
>> I will be generous and say that wind direction has a major influence on their
>> decisions.
Yes, perhaps they should play 'The answer is blowing in the wind' by Bob Dylan at their next manifesto. Or maybe not....
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Has anybody anywhere ever been prosecuted or fined for smoking or allowing someone to smoke in a place of work let alone a car? I've never heard of anyone. I think sometimes we like to feel more downtrodden than we really are
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 29 Aug 10 at 14:46
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Never heard of anyone being prosecuted and I see plenty of taxi drivers smoking in their cabs, so obviously a work vehicle.
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Are driving schools sponsored by clutch manufacturers?
I'm a neutral person and I like the stop start function in my car that save me a few pence and deprives the taxman of a little when the engine turns off.
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Am I the only young person leaves it neutral? - rtj70
